Does Tor actually sell ebooks? Or publish ebooks, for purchase on other sites? If so, where? Of their free ebook offerings, I actually read one all the way through and liked it, John Scalzi's "Old Man's War". It's part of a trilogy. All right, the free bait hooked me, and so I'm ready to purchase the other two. Here's my money... but no one wants to take it. I don't see any ebook options on the Tor/Forge MacMillan website.

What's the story? I see that there is a Kindle edition of "The Ghost Brigades", which tells me that the book has been published electronically, but certainly not just to Kindle owners?

Apparently, they do publish ebooks, but only for Amazon/Kindle. This is the kind of thing that drives people to piracy. TOR can make ebooks. They have made ebooks. They have made these books as ebooks. They only provide them, though, to Amazon, who only makes them available to Kindle owners. I want to smash and sue and boycott Tor and email Scalzi.

That's not true. You can find Tor books on Fictionwise. Search for a publisher called holtzbrinck.

There isn't much, though this could be a result of Fictionwise needing to upgrade their website.

That publisher isn't even in the list of publishers on FictionWise. A search for "Scalzi, John", only shows the first book, "Old Man's War", which was already given away as a free ebook from TOR. The next in the series, The Ghost Brigades, is available to Kindle owners (http://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Brigades-Sci-Essential-Books/dp/B000PC0ZWG/ref=ed_oe_k) but not, apparently to anyone else in the ebook universe.

The third book is only available, apparently, in hardcover.

Yes it is. I'm looking at a list right now.

I found it under Advanced Search.

Does Tor actually sell ebooks? Or publish ebooks, for purchase on other sites? If so, where? Of their free ebook offerings, I actually read one all the way through and liked it, John Scalzi's "Old Man's War". It's part of a trilogy. All right, the free bait hooked me, and so I'm ready to purchase the other two. Here's my money... but no one wants to take it. I don't see any ebook options on the Tor/Forge MacMillan website.

What's the story? I see that there is a Kindle edition of "The Ghost Brigades", which tells me that the book has been published electronically, but certainly not just to Kindle owners?Good question.

Tor is certainly aware of ebooks. Tor CEO Tom Doherty was a friend and former boss of the late Jim Baen on Baen books. He was aware of what Jim was doing with the Webscriptions program, and at one point had put together a deal with Jim to offer Tor content over Webscriptions, and things had progressed enough for both companies to announce it.

Unfortunately, Tor is a unit of the German outfit Holtzbrinck (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_von_Holtzbrinck_Publishing_Group), and Tor's corporate parent pulled the plug on the deal when they discovered Webscriptions books were not protected by DRM. Cue much annoyance all around.

Holtzbrinck seems to have rethought its opposition, and things may be moving again. But offhand, I'd say Tor is in the process of figuring out the best way to do it, and I see part of Tor's ebook offer as a test of the market for electronic editions and the acceptance of particular electronic formats. (I have no doubt someone is tracking numbers of downloads of each format.)

There may also be contracts to be amended to permit Tor to offer electronic editions, if an author's contract doesn't explicitly provide for that.

And the trilogy Old Man's War is a part of is definitely worth it, even if you must resort to paper. :)
______
Dennis

Yes it is. I'm looking at a list right now.

I found it under Advanced Search.

I searched Fictionwise and couldn't find anything else from Scalzi apart from OMW. :huh2:

DrS

On any page of Fictionwise, in the upper left hand corner, there is a search box. Below the box is a link to Advanced Search.

You can search by publisher, and one that will work is holtzbrinck.

P.S. I just went looking for OMW, and Fictionwise screwed up. They listed it with the wrong publisher.I guess this means who the hell knows what you'll find if you look for it.

Yes it is. I'm looking at a list right now.

I found it under Advanced Search.

Found it... but not the particular book I'm wanting. The point of my rant is that this book is available as an e-book, but only as a Kindle Edition through Amazon. That's what gets my blood boiling.

And the trilogy Old Man's War is a part of is definitely worth it, even if you must resort to paper. :)
______
Dennis

I'm not going to have book one as an ebook, book two as a lousy paperback, and book three as a bulky, overpriced hardcover. I'll just move on to another author, and try to remember Scalzi as well worth a read if/when he has a publisher willing to get their act together.

It's also in Topaz, so it's DRMed up the wazoo. If someone bought you a copy, you couldn't use it.

On any page of Fictionwise, in the upper left hand corner, there is a search box. Below the box is a link to Advanced Search.

You can search by publisher, and one that will work is holtzbrinck.

P.S. I just went looking for OMW, and Fictionwise screwed up. They listed it with the wrong publisher.I guess this means who the hell knows what you'll find if you look for it.

I can only find OMW and nothing else. This is way to weird :chinscratch:

And I tried search by author, title (every title by Scalzi), click on "by John Scalzi" on OMW page - and one big nothing.

DrS

Yes, the problem you're having is caused by the crappy software that Fictionwise is using to run the website.

Do you know what I want from TOR? I want the works of James White as ebooks. He wrote a series of novels and short stories set in a multi species hospital. Most are SF medical mysteries, with solutions dependent on some intricate detail of an alien species' anatomy or psychology.

None of his work is available in electronic form. I would gladly pay for a legitimate copy. Unfortunately, TOR doesn't want my money.

Yes it is. I'm looking at a list right now.

I found it under Advanced Search.
Link please?

I have to agree. It is unfair for Tor to send out eBooks in formats we can either use as is or easily convert to use and then say that unless you have a Kindle, screw you for the rest of the series. The problem is that the Kindle is not the only device out there.

If any Kindle owners read this, please do not purchase any eBooks from Tor from Amazon. This will hopefully send them a message.

Unfair? It's an advertising campaign, pure and simple! You don't think that they're giving away books out of the goodness of their hearts, do you? :)

Unfair? It's an advertising campaign, pure and simple? You don't think that they're giving away books out of the goodness of their hearts, do you? :)
I know what they are doing. Giving away book 1 in a series so we'll read book 1 and then want to read the others in the series. BUT, they don't make the others available except to Kindle owners (as eBooks). This is where is becomes unfair. There are more people out there with eBook display devices who do not have a Kindle then there are Kindle owners. So what Tor is doing is shooting themselves in the foot by pissing off a lot of people. And this will effect not only eBooks, but pBooks as well.

Unfair? It's an advertising campaign, pure and simple? You don't think that they're giving away books out of the goodness of their hearts, do you? :)

Correct! And at the end of the 12 week advertising campaign, they are going to open a fancy new website. Call me Pollyanna, but I don't believe that all this expense is being done just to build up a new website with nothing to buy...

HarryT, we're not talking about the giveaway. That's fine, I understand it. The giveaway made me want to read the others in the series. Specifically, the book "The Ghost Brigades". Tor has published this as an e-book, but only as a Kindle Edition.

There is now a situation where in order to buy a published ebook, I would have to own a Kindle and buy the book from Amazon and Amazon only.

TOR is refusing to have me as a customer. That's their right, certainly. It doesn't make me particularly friendly towards TOR, and will affect my future buying decisions.

Link please?

Sorry, there is confusion here. By "it", I mean the publisher Nate referred to, not the specific book. Again, the book I want is only available as a Kindle edition (or a printed version).

Moreover, where is their email contact address? Their contact us (http://us.macmillan.com/Content.aspx?publisher=torforge&id=261) page doesn't have an email address, except for employment opportunities and webmaster issues. The "Email" link upper right is to email the contact us page to a buddy. Useless.

So in order to talk to TOR about electronic book publishing, I have to write a physical letter. That is icing on the cake.

You can write the email address used to send you the email about the free eBook. I did when the first one came out in PDF only and did get a reply.

Aye, I'm pissed as well. Especially since I live in Switzerland and thus not in a "Kindle Supported Country".

As for non-Kindle Tor ebooks I've found, they were either in mobi or eReader format. I don't like mobi but I could live with it. The same can not be said for the eReader format.

Pair this with the affront of only selling hardbacks for a year and I'm royally pissed. I don't really care about the price, even if it is hefty. What bothers me is the physical format of hardbacks:

They fit very badly into backpacks (dimensions)
They are too heavy and too cumbersome to read in bed or on a sofa
They take too much space on a shelf
The letters are too large with too large a margin at the edges
The format breaks up the collection unless I only buy hardbacks...

I agree with all of the gripes. I just sent this:

Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 9:55 AM
To: 'press.inquiries@macmillanusa.com'
Subject: Concerns regarding TOR free e-editions

To Whom It May Concern:

I want to begin by saying “Thank You” for providing free e-editions for readers using electronic reading devices. It is widely understood that the e-editions are part 1 volumes of multi-volume series. However, there is a problem: Your e-edition reading customers can not purchase subsequent volumes in any format except for the Kindle. There are many different e-devices and Kindle has not cornered the market, although their marketing department would like to make it appear to be so.

Please refer to this link http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24067&page=2 for a list of complaints regarding this inability to purchase TOR books. While there, also please click the link for the website’s wiki for a good overview of the e-device formats.

There is a growing market for e-editions, and I hope TOR will take a leading role in making content available.

Thank you,

You can write the email address used to send you the email about the free eBook. I did when the first one came out in PDF only and did get a reply.

At the very beginning, I asked them privacy related questions and got an authoritative answer very quickly.

At the very beginning, I asked them privacy related questions and got an authoritative answer very quickly.

And what, pray tell, was the answer?

You can write the email address used to send you the email about the free eBook. I did when the first one came out in PDF only and did get a reply.

Thanks: questions@tor.com, just for the record.

Thanks: questions@tor.com, just for the record.

Thanks! I'll forward my letter to that address also.

To all: Feel free to copy, edit, and email any part of my letter that you like. Maybe Tor needs to hear from more than just one or two voices.

And what, pray tell, was the answer?

Their privacy statement for the free ebook sign-up was pretty well done but it lacked references to EU Data Protection Laws and the US Safe Harbor Agreement. So, I asked them what would happen if I demanded/requested the deletion of all personal identifiable information. The response was that all such data would be deleted. The privacy statement already prohibited passing along my data.

However, the point of my post was that emailing them works, as opposed to emailing bookeen.

If anyone does email, please be respectful and polite. We want to be customers. We want to have a good relationship with a publisher that wants our business. Yes, I'm pissed at them, but pissing ON them likely won't improve the situation.

Just an FYI -
I received this email on 5 May in response to a 2nd email I had sent thanking them for the free ebooks but pointing out lost TOR sales when other series books weren't available for purchase in ebook format:

RE: Mercedes Lackey, Free ebook The Outstretched Shadow
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 10:59:55 -0400
From: "Tor Questions" <questions@tor.com>

Dear ...
Thanks so much for your encouraging words! You'll be happy to know
that we plan on shortly having a wide list of titles available for
purchase on the Tor-Forge site. So hang on tight, we hear you!

Cheers,
The tor.com Team

That's good to know, but doesn't address the "Kindle-only" complaint.

Doesn't it? Presumably they sell their Kindle books via Amazon. If they're setting up their own e-Book site, that will - one might reasonably suppose - be for formats other than Kindle. Let's wait and see before jumping to conclusions.

If they are going to sell "exclusively" through the Tor-Forge site, but with DRM, then releasing for the Kindle (and the Sony) separately makes some sense, because these won't be compatible with the site. I hope they follow the long standing Sci-Fi trend of DRM-free ebooks, and then the Kindle versions on Amazon represent lower margins to the publisher but perhaps more sales.

Doesn't it? Presumably they sell their Kindle books via Amazon. If they're setting up their own e-Book site, that will - one might reasonably suppose - be for formats other than Kindle. Let's wait and see before jumping to conclusions.

Absolutely. But there are already sites available, which sell TOR books, for other formats. Why does Amazon get preferential treatment to the exclusion of other vendors, formats, and customers?

I've had my rant; posting here won't solve the problem. I've emailed TOR and am now in your suggested "wait and see" mode.

Dear ...
Thanks so much for your encouraging words! You'll be happy to know
that we plan on shortly having a wide list of titles available for
purchase on the Tor-Forge site. So hang on tight, we hear you!

Cheers,
The tor.com Team

Just as important as making stuff available I hope they start to "get it" where price is concerned. Most of the titles they've given away free can now be purchased in Mobi format for only $14 a piece:rolleyes: (much more than the pbook). I don't know how much of it is a Tor problem and how much of the problem is their parent company since their other labels seem to have the same pricing & availability problems.

Another thing you might want to try is go to Sony's book store and fill out a request that they carry TOR books and specifically the titles you want. Doing a search that returns no results brings up a link where you can send a request for books and authors you want them to carry.

Considering that no one outside of Sony sells DRMed Sony books, I would think that they would have to start up a relationship with Sony.

Jason

Sony doesn't have a "search" that ever brings up no results. If there are no results, you get to wade through vaguely semi-related, as seen through the eyes of a faulty fuzzy logic system, results, making the entire Sony Connect experience as pleasant and crisp as a summer day in Houston.

But, yes, I frequently use the "Request Titles" link, like dropping pennies down a bottomless well. You never even hear an echo. Talk about your "Psychological Well Beings"...

Taylor, I am glad you started this thread. I noted the same absence in the original TOR free ebook thread. And for the same title. I previously owned (through the SFBC) a copy of The Last Colony by Scalzi, and then found the TOR ebook fee edition of OMW. I really would like to get an ebook version (non Kindle) of Ghost Brigades.

It only makes sense for TOR to follow through on this, I mean, they have to want my money, but then little makes sense in corporate land.

I am also in Wait And See mode.

Sony doesn't have a "search" that ever brings up no results.

Well, I managed to do it, tho that may be on the web site, which is only useful for browsing. Again, another mark of the grand experience of shopping with Sony. :D

Jason

Just an FYI -
I received this email on 5 May [from Tor]
...
You'll be happy to know that we plan on shortly having a wide list of titles available for purchase on the Tor-Forge site.
...


I think I may have figured out a point of confusion. I read a post on another web site where it appears that Tor does not see the Tor web site as a big source of books. Its more of a fan site. However, this post does distinguish between the Tor fan site and the tor-forge corporate site.

Combining this post with the email above, it may be that we want to keep our eye on www.Tor-Forge.com if we want to purchase actual e-books. Below is an excerpt of the post I am basing this conclusion on, as well as a link to the full post.

Michael
================================================== ====
http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/2008_03.html
go to the section just under halfway down titled: Phase one: collect underpants

The post purports to be from a Tor representative:
... this offer [for free books] has caused a lot of people to jump to the conclusion that the new site will be all about selling and/or giving away digital books. This isn’t the case, although Tor does have a bunch of future plans for the selling and/or giving away of book-length digital works, some of which plans may even involve this particular project. But the actual point of this site ... Is to be a Focal Point Fanzine

p.s. the post has other interesting stuff like a way to sign up for a beta launch on the actual Tor web site (that's the fanzine site, not the book site if my interpretation is correct).

Yes, that is the site on which I search for ebooks and found none. Further searching turned up a Kindle Edition of a book I want, but can't have, because it's a Kindle Edition.