Where to begin?

Fictionwise wasn't at the conference. At least, I didn't see them and the Astak rep didn't think they were there. So I couldn't get solid info about Ereader support, but I was told that Fictionwise should be ready to announce Ereader support in June. The Astak rep didn't know whether Fictionwise's device would be locked down or what other features it would support.

The 5" model came in several different colors. Not all worked because they hadn't been flashed yet. One did, so this is fine. It only read the PVI/Netronix STK format. I did get a picture of the menu. As you can see, it's different from the 6". Also, look at the position of the buttons. They bear a striking resemblance to the position of the buttons on the Jetbook.

The functional 6" models were obviously the OEM from Netronix. The other is their design, and doesn't work yet. It's an engineering mockup they just receive a few days before. I wonder if the menu on the 6" Mentor is the same as on the EB-100? Actually, I think the 6" readers were EB-100. I was told they would only have the 5" Mentor because the others weren't ready yet.

The 9.7" was a preproduction model. If I hadn't told them I was coming, I doubt they would have brought it. It did have touchscreen, but the software was refusing to work that day. I know many here are disappointed by the lack of a hands on review, but I didn't expect to see it at all. Don't complain too loudly.

There were a number of other questions that people wanted me to ask, and most of the answers are on Astak's website. One thing I forgot to check is the format of the ebooks I was reading.

The original pictures can be found in a couple zip files over here (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23909). If anyone has a question, please ask.

Thanks!

Someone in the other thread mentioned that the design of the 5" model in particular leaves something to be desired.

I'm not sure about that. It looks relatively uncluttered and, unlike the Kindle, the buttons seem to be in a reasonable place.

I bet we'll hear complaints about one-handed reading...turning pages and all. You know, for all those that seem to require a device that will allow you to read easily while you're driving or juggling chainsaws.

i have a question, and i realize this has nothing to do with astak, but you mentioned in that other thread that (my good friend) Garth Conboy was there with the new ETI model, do you have any photos of that ?? or news of any kind ???

i have a question, and i realize this has nothing to do with astak, but you mentioned in that other thread that (my good friend) Garth Conboy was there with the new ERI model, do you have any photos of that ?? or news of any kind ???

A couple of pictures in the zip file in that thread are of the ETI model. And yes, he did say a few things, but I thought it would be best to start a new thread. I haven't written it yet.

The 9.7" model does look rather sharp and well designed...more so than the other two.

I only hope it works.

Clearly the dimensions are wrong on the website - I should have realized that myself before seeing these pics. Any sense of what the actual dimensions of the 9.7" model are? That's the one I'm most interested in, though if it's as big as it looks I might change my mind.

The original pictures can be found in a couple zip files over here (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23909). If anyone has a question, please ask.

I thought the Astak guy in the other thread said they were going to be Orange?

BOb

well, at the time they had an orange bezel, but he said the design wasn't definitive. i admit, i was hoping for orange as well.

You might not be able to see it, but the 9.7" does have an orange bezel on 3 of the edges.

Clearly the dimensions are wrong on the website - I should have realized that myself before seeing these pics. Any sense of what the actual dimensions of the 9.7" model are? That's the one I'm most interested in, though if it's as big as it looks I might change my mind.

I think the metric measurements are correct. The imperial measurements were the same for all three units last time I looked.

Call me paranoid, but so far we have:

- some working 5" readers
- semi-working 6" reader

...and a word of marketing people that it will get better.

So far, vapourwave. It doesn't sound like they're going to start selling them soon. I'm not holding my breath. (Actually, I stopped holding my breath as soon as I heard they use Windows, but I digress ... )

Where to begin?

Fictionwise wasn't at the conference. At least, I didn't see them and the Astak rep didn't think they were there. So I couldn't get solid info about Ereader support, but I was told that Fictionwise should be ready to announce Ereader support in June. The Astak rep didn't know whether Fictionwise's device would be locked down or what other features it would support.

The 5" model came in several different colors. Not all worked because they hadn't been flashed yet. One did, so this is fine. It only read the PVI/Netronix STK format. I did get a picture of the menu. As you can see, it's different from the 6". Also, look at the position of the buttons. They bear a striking resemblance to the position of the buttons on the Jetbook.

The functional 6" models were obviously the OEM from Netronix. The other is their design, and doesn't work yet. It's an engineering mockup they just receive a few days before. I wonder if the menu on the 6" Mentor is the same as on the EB-100? Actually, I think the 6" readers were EB-100. I was told they would only have the 5" Mentor because the others weren't ready yet.

The 9.7" was a preproduction model. If I hadn't told them I was coming, I doubt they would have brought it. It did have touchscreen, but the software was refusing to work that day. I know many here are disappointed by the lack of a hands on review, but I didn't expect to see it at all. Don't complain too loudly.

There were a number of other questions that people wanted me to ask, and most of the answers are on Astak's website. One thing I forgot to check is the format of the ebooks I was reading.

Nate,

It's quite clear the white Astaks are basic Netronix models. Whether they're EB-100s or EB-2xx models isn't so clear, but I'd lean towards EB-100s right now as even Netronix isn't shipping EB-2xx models yet. Except for the "Astak" logo across the top, the white models are identical to my EB-100 in appearance.

I like the looks of the 9.7" model. Would love to see it in action. However, I'm hearing late summer from Netronix for the EB-300 (maybe) so I guess I'll just have to wait. :D

As I've said elsewhere, if Astak makes eReader work on these, it would be nice. I'd rather have Mobi support, but both of those are FAR superior to .stk ebooks!

Derek

Call me paranoid, but so far we have:

- some working 5" readers
- semi-working 6" reader

...and a word of marketing people that it will get better.

So far, vapourwave. It doesn't sound like they're going to start selling them soon. I'm not holding my breath. (Actually, I stopped holding my breath as soon as I heard they use Windows, but I digress ... )

I'm pretty sure the white Astaks are fully working. But I'm willing to bet they're EB-100s, not EB-2xx series. That means they come loaded with Linux 2.6 and STAReBOOK's Eread (.stk format ebooks) ebook reader - and they don't support touchscreen, bluetooth or wifi. Now the other 6" models may well be engineering mockups waiting for the EB-2xx guts.

Derek

How does the 5" model compare, overall size-wise, with a PDA?

Call me paranoid, but so far we have:

- some working 5" readers
- semi-working 6" reader

...and a word of marketing people that it will get better.

So far, vapourwave. It doesn't sound like they're going to start selling them soon. I'm not holding my breath. (Actually, I stopped holding my breath as soon as I heard they use Windows, but I digress ... )

You're paranoid. I said before that they had told me they were only bringing the 5" because the others didn't work. They have always been forthcoming about the status of their readers. I don't think this qualifies as vaporware.

How does the 5" model compare, overall size-wise, with a PDA?

Well, according to the web site, the measurements are 7.5”(H) x 4.75”(W) x 0.35”(D). My Tapwave, which many already consider too big for a PDA, is 5.6" x 3.1" x 0.55", smaller but not as thin. For comparison, the Palm TX is 3.08" W x 4.76" H x .61" D.

Jack

Well, according to the web site, the measurements are 7.5”(H) x 4.75”(W) x 0.35”(D). My Tapwave, which many already consider too big for a PDA, is 5.6" x 3.1" x 0.55", smaller but not as thin. For comparison, the Palm TX is 3.08" W x 4.76" H x .61" D.

Jack

Don't trust the measurements for the 5" model since they show them as the same as the 6" model (which are correct). The 5" model is smaller than the measurements they quote.

Nate;

Thanks for taking the time to snap these pics and give us more info from someone who doesn't work for the company.

I'm pulling for them to be able to bring these to market at the prices they've alluded to and really hope to be able to walk into my local Target to try one out and take it home.

Cheaper e-readers for the world!

Someone in the other thread mentioned that the design of the 5" model in particular leaves something to be desired.

I'm not sure about that. It looks relatively uncluttered and, unlike the Kindle, the buttons seem to be in a reasonable place.

I bet we'll hear complaints about one-handed reading...turning pages and all. You know, for all those that seem to require a device that will allow you to read easily while you're driving or juggling chainsaws.

Perhaps I am not seeing something that is there, but I do have a complaint about the button placement for page turning. I am simply unable to use my left thumb for page turning, and the 5 inch model does seem biased for left hand page turning.

All the other eReading hardware I have used has been configurable to right handed page turning. Actually, the eBookwise 1150 has the best design, in that the screen and button configuration is able to be completely reversed 180 degrees. But the Sony Readers do have easily used right and left page turning ability.

Thanks for the Astak update Nate!

Don't trust the measurements for the 5" model since they show them as the same as the 6" model (which are correct). The 5" model is smaller than the measurements they quote.

:smack:

Thanks for the correction!

So... who has the time/skills to take the photos, the known measurements of the 6" unit, adjust for perspective, and extrapolate the correct measurements for the 5" unit? :chinscratch:

This would be a special challenge since the 5" and 6" units are never in the same picture! I suppose, knowing that the screen is 5", you could ratio out from there... Owww, headache.

Jack

Perhaps I am not seeing something that is there, but I do have a complaint about the button placement for page turning. I am simply unable to use my left thumb for page turning, and the 5 inch model does seem biased for left hand page turning.


This is an assumption, but I expect that you can use the Left/Right arrow buttons on the 4 way button to turn pages also, just as you can on the Jetbook which has a very similar button layout.

BOb

... and indeed on the Gen3 too.

I was really looking forward to read some details on a working model but by the sounds of it they are not nearly ready to mass produce these. I do hope that they take the time necessary to address all the software bugs before they decide to roll out some units still in 'beta' to the general public.

As for the price of the units I am confident that they can hit their targets. If you look at other handheld technology and what it offers for the price, a 9.7" eBook for $350 sounds reasonable. Currently a top PDA like the iPaq 210 can be purchased for under $350 and it has significantly more features than an eBook reader does. By mass producing devices for giant retail chains like Wal-Mart this should bring down the price of eInk to something more reasonable.

If Astak delivers on their promises then they're likely to cause a snowball effect and every other manufacturer will follow suit. The great thing about this is that we, the readers, are clear winners.

Cheaper devices, more selection choices, more features? Bring it on!

This is an assumption, but I expect that you can use the Left/Right arrow buttons on the 4 way button to turn pages also, just as you can on the Jetbook which has a very similar button layout.

BOb That would certainly fit my needs.

I think the metric measurements are correct. The imperial measurements were the same for all three units last time I looked.

Metric? Who reads metric!? :)

Metric? Who reads metric!? :)

Basically everyone but us, er US.

BOb

Which one is the ETI model?

None of them. The ETI model is over in the other thread.

the 9" model looks godawful aesthetically.

I was at the conference also, and not terribly impressed with those devices. They just didn't feel quite right (only held the smaller one.) Still, the more manufacturers and price points that are out there will only help grow the market.

Did those that went to the conference happen to turn a page on the device.

Was there a delay in the screen refreshing like the sony?

Yes, there was a delay, just like any other Eink display.

Yes, there was a delay, just like any other Eink display.

:( blast, thought that was just a sony problem.

:thumbsup:9.7":2thumbsup

Nice to see yet more devices out there...it'll start getting a bit difficult with all those same-hardware-diferent-firmware devices coming out...I wonder how all those companies are going to prevent the "cross-flashing" of these devices... ;)

Nice to see yet more devices out there...it'll start getting a bit difficult with all those same-hardware-diferent-firmware devices coming out...I wonder how all those companies are going to prevent the "cross-flashing" of these devices... ;)

Especially as OpenInkpot comes to fruition. :D

Derek

Nice to see yet more devices out there...it'll start getting a bit difficult with all those same-hardware-diferent-firmware devices coming out...I wonder how all those companies are going to prevent the "cross-flashing" of these devices... ;)

Why should they try? Except for support issues cross-flashing should be a good thing.

Dale

:( blast, thought that was just a sony problem.

It's not a "problem" - it's an inherent feature of eInk displays.

@DaleDe

explain that to bookeen... ;)

@DaleDe

explain that to bookeen... ;)

Well they don't want to give away their eBook reader but I suspect they don't care if you flash another ROM image. Companies that produce commercial software are usually reluctant to give it away given how much work it is to produce.

Dale

Nice to see yet more devices out there...it'll start getting a bit difficult with all those same-hardware-diferent-firmware devices coming out...I wonder how all those companies are going to prevent the "cross-flashing" of these devices... ;)

"cross-flashing" ????
Please explain ......

Alyson

"cross-flashing" ????
Please explain ......

Alyson

When you flash and eBook Reader or other firmware controlled device such as a PDA you mean that you are reloading the firmware on the device. This is usually a new release of the firmware but you could also flash an older version. This applies when the firmware is obtained from the manufacturer. However, in some cases a third party may make firmware that would work on your hardware. For example the iPAQ normally uses Pocket PC (Windows Mobile) firmware but there is also a Linux version that could be flashed on the unit which would totally replace everything on the unit and it would become a linux device. When a third party firmware is applied to a device it is termed cross-flashing. In particular this effect would be most interesting if you flashed a unit with firmware that was not intended to be on that unit but was designed for another unit. In this case you are turning one brand of unit into another.

The hardware for several brands of ebook readers is all made by a single company and then sold to a company that adds its own customization and then rebrands the product. So in this case the manufactures firmware (1st party) could conceivably run as 3rd party firmware on someone else's hardware. This is taken for granted these days in the pc world but it not present so far in the eBook reader world.

Does that help?
Dale

When you flash and eBook Reader or other firmware controlled device such as a PDA you mean that you are reloading the firmware on the device. This is usually a new release of the firmware but you could also flash an older version. This applies when the firmware is obtained from the manufacturer. However, in some cases a third party may make firmware that would work on your hardware. For example the iPAQ normally uses Pocket PC (Windows Mobile) firmware but there is also a Linux version that could be flashed on the unit which would totally replace everything on the unit and it would become a linux device. When a third party firmware is applied to a device it is termed cross-flashing. In particular this effect would be most interesting if you flashed a unit with firmware that was not intended to be on that unit but was designed for another unit. In this case you are turning one brand of unit into another.

The hardware for several brands of ebook readers is all made by a single company and then sold to a company that adds its own customization and then rebrands the product. So in this case the manufactures firmware (1st party) could conceivably run as 3rd party firmware on someone else's hardware. This is taken for granted these days in the pc world but it not present so far in the eBook reader world.

Does that help?
Dale

Yes...I understand the concept (I've been in the computer world since the 70's, prior to IBM PC), but I still live in the world of the Operating System staying and just applications changing. So, essentially, we could have a eink device and take the new Cybook update and "cross-flash" it onto it?

I was playing with the idea of something like that for a very old Sharp Wizard PDA I have. Would love to turn it into a ebook reader.

Thanks for the explanation.

Alyson :thanks:

Yes...I understand the concept (I've been in the computer world since the 70's, prior to IBM PC), but I still live in the world of the Operating System staying and just applications changing. So, essentially, we could have a eink device and take the new Cybook update and "cross-flash" it onto it?

I was playing with the idea of something like that for a very old Sharp Wizard PDA I have. Would love to turn it into a ebook reader.

Thanks for the explanation.

Alyson :thanks:

Well, the way these e-ink readers are set up, the hardware involved is a major issue to "cross-flashing". As is the fact that some require one type of firmware update file(s) and another might require a different file or file set. To give you an example, the older STAReBOOK STK-101 required an ELF file called update_kernel, a cramfs compressed filesystem called newebr.cramfs and a series of bitmap files used to display the progress of the firmware update process. On the other hand, the Cybook Gen3 simply requires an ELF file called update_kernel. But the ExPlay requires all that the STK-101 does *and* a file called NewOpen.cmd. Yet they're all the same basic hardware.

One could, I suppose, open one of these devices in console mode as a serial device and then copy the filesystem out of it and then, using the same method, into another device from a different supplier, but that requires cracking the case, building a ttl-level cable and attaching same to solder points on the motherboard... Not something a typical user might wish to attempt on a $300+ device. :(

Derek

Well, the way these e-ink readers are set up, the hardware involved is a major issue to "cross-flashing". As is the fact that some require one type of firmware update file(s) and another might require a different file or file set. To give you an example, the older STAReBOOK STK-101 required an ELF file called update_kernel, a cramfs compressed filesystem called newebr.cramfs and a series of bitmap files used to display the progress of the firmware update process. On the other hand, the Cybook Gen3 simply requires an ELF file called update_kernel. But the ExPlay requires all that the STK-101 does *and* a file called NewOpen.cmd. Yet they're all the same basic hardware.

One could, I suppose, open one of these devices in console mode as a serial device and then copy the filesystem out of it and then, using the same method, into another device from a different supplier, but that requires cracking the case, building a ttl-level cable and attaching same to solder points on the motherboard... Not something a typical user might wish to attempt on a $300+ device. :(

Derek


No, I wouldn't get into that far. Just had wild and crazy Ideas, like I always do.

Alyson:o

Not something a typical user might wish to attempt on a $300+ device. :(
There are some "mods" for playstation and similar consoles. Many of those mods are too complicated for a lambda user. This is why there are quite a few quasi legal shops that will make the modification for a modest fee.

I know, I know... You void your [original manufacturer] warranty, and since the shop operates in the quasi legal or outright illegal area, depending on the country they operate in, you do not get any warranty for the modification either. Yet, many of those shops make a very brisk trade.

I understand some of the Astaks are going to have touch screens. Did you hear anything about whether the touch screen could be used for entering text, like on a PDA?

I'm wondering because that would make things like search, and annotations, possible.

Why do these (and the ETI model) use that same clunky hardware as the CyBook? I have one and I'm about ready to put it up on eBay. I dislike how slow the button is to respond and how hard you have to press it to turn the page.

So it disappoints me to see that other "choices" aren't choices, not really.

Why do these (and the ETI model) use that same clunky hardware as the CyBook? I have one and I'm about ready to put it up on eBay. I dislike how slow the button is to respond and how hard you have to press it to turn the page.

So it disappoints me to see that other "choices" aren't choices, not really.

You say clunky, I say better than the Sony PRS500. :)

Part of it derives, I'm pretty sure, from the clunkiness of the underlying OS. The rest has to be at least part the actual hardware. But how much is unclear.

Derek

The navigation control on the new Gen3 is significantly improved. It is both more "positive" in its action, and softer to the touch.

The navigation control on the new Gen3 is significantly improved. It is both more "positive" in its action, and softer to the touch.

Good news.

You say clunky, I say better than the Sony PRS500. :)



Y'know, maybe it's because I'm a lefty, but I thought the Sony PRS500 was fine. I tend to hold the reader at the bottom left-hand corner, so everything - including the 10 selection buttons - was within comfortable reach.

I bought a CyBook, and while I can learn to hold it with the right hand, pressing the button requires more force and doesn't always respond (doesn't respond if the light is unlit). That bothers me lots more than the navigation (which I'll agree is not ideal).

I gave up on it and upgraded to a Sony PRS505, just for the brighter screen and faster screen changes. The button placement still works okay for me, but since I hold the Reader at the bottom, if I want to use the selection keys, I have to let go of the Reader and reach up to the side of the reader. Not optimal for me. But probably perfect for righties who don't mind holding the Reader midway along the edge.

Y'know, maybe it's because I'm a lefty, but I thought the Sony PRS500 was fine. I tend to hold the reader at the bottom left-hand corner, so everything - including the 10 selection buttons - was within comfortable reach.

I bought a CyBook, and while I can learn to hold it with the right hand, pressing the button requires more force and doesn't always respond (doesn't respond if the light is unlit). That bothers me lots more than the navigation (which I'll agree is not ideal).

I gave up on it and upgraded to a Sony PRS505, just for the brighter screen and faster screen changes. The button placement still works okay for me, but since I hold the Reader at the bottom, if I want to use the selection keys, I have to let go of the Reader and reach up to the side of the reader. Not optimal for me. But probably perfect for righties who don't mind holding the Reader midway along the edge.

I'm with you. Though I'm right handed, I prefer to hold my book, and reader, with my left hand and wish the button was right under my left thumb.

With holding it in the left hand, my right hand is free for other buttons or tasks.

-Alyson

How long does it take for a Ebook reader device company to adapt to a new technology and come out with their own model?

The reason I am asking is that I know that Epson and Nemptronix(spelled wrong)
have come out with new technology for EINK that has really fast page refresh+other stuff. I think i read somewhere that they are going to provide samples(or atleast epson) to manufacturer companies in June or July.

How long would this take to came around to production?

How long did it take Iliad to come out after the EINK reader device samples became available? How about SONY reader and CYGEN?

Can anybody clarify? Anybody know the answer to this one?

How long does it take for a Ebook reader company to adapt to a new technology and come out with their own model?

The reason I am asking is that I know that Epson and Nemptronix(spelled wrong)
have come out with new technology for EINK that has really fast page refresh+other stuff. I think i read somewhere that they are going to provide samples(or atleast epson) to manufacturer companies in June or July.

How long would this take to came around to production?

How long did it take Iliad to come out after the EINK reader samples became available? How about SONY reader and CYGEN?

Can anybody clarify? Anybody know the answer to this one?

It can be a very "indefinite" process. First, Epson has to make the 'samples' delivery date of June (or July - see, we've already built in a minimum of one month of "wiggle" time). Then those companies receiving the samples have to figure out how to get them to work with the hardware. (Oops! A fumble-fingered idiot just "toasted" one company's sample and Epson, not realizing this would happen, doesn't expect to have further samples ready for another three-to-six months.) And then we must add in design delays caused by the potential need for a new controller chip - one which doesn't fit the current SBC (single-board computer) that all the major players use - which means going *back* to the SBC manufacturer and having a *NEW* SBC designed that replaces the old with the new. (That could take between a month and half-a-year.) BTW, did we mention that - just to simulate reality - the controller chips from the first two runs had a small, but significant, flaw which means waiting another two months for the revised controller chip?

Then there's the fact that even with all these bugs eliminated, Epson hasn't managed to ramp up production - so the device manufacturers won't have enough supply for more than a few thousand ebook readers at a time? This might last for another year.

And to add to all that, the software has to be updated to take advantage of the new features. Can you say "firmware updates"? I knew you could.

During all this time, Sony, Bookeen, Astak, iRex and Amazon have to keep selling current-generation readers in order to generate revenue - they can't be laying off staff because their money ran out - so that means only a few people can be dedicated to the new generation reader.

It might take as long as two years for the new e-paper to reach the market. Or as little as 6 months. I'd not want to have to cover a bet on the 6-month end. :)

Derek

No need to be witty at the expense of the one-handed! Some of us are handicapped and really appreciate the one-handed feature. For me, it's the main reason I use my ebookwise. Ever try holding a paper book AND turning pages one-handed? It can be done, but it's tricky.

:) Just saying.

Sherry

Sherry