I am trying to live blog the Sony tech announcement. Let's see if this is possible on my Kindle. Could another mod clean this up when I am done.

No sales numbers. They are expanding promotions. Also they say that they will still focus on travelers as core customer. EPUB demo!! He used the library functions of DE. DE recognized the 505. He sent ePub files to the 505. And now he is reading the ebook in ePub on the 505.

He avoided giving a date of availability. He demoed PDF reflow, but gave no date of availability.

I followed up on availability. They would not give a time frame.

Sweet!

Ezoanding! I have no idea what it means, but I gotta write this awesome word down.
Too bad they can't promise any dates but DE connectivity does sound pretty sweet.

If possible, can you ask them if this will be supported on the PRS-500... or will it require the 505?

Thanks,
BOb

EPUB support! Hopefully the rendering software is more capable and more robust than the LRF renderer.

Did they showcased advanced layouts too ? Using the XSL-FO extensions that Adobe added to the standard ?

"ezoanding" could become the next "Pwned"!

Usage: He pwned so many of the other playa's that his ego has ezoanded to planethead size!

If you google "ezoanding", this thread is the TOP hit!!

...nah, it is the only hit, lol. But thanks for the great report Nate. Now I am praying that they bring epub to PRS-500 users as well. Although knowing Sony, I am not optimistic at all.

I know what I want, and I want it NOW! I want my new Sony Reader Firmware 'cuz I'm Mr. Reader...sing it with me!

If possible, can you ask them if this will be supported on the PRS-500... or will it require the 505?

Thanks,
BOb

Only the 505.

I wonder why people are getting so exciting about this DE issue.
It is just another DRM...

I will follow my MS lit path.

I wonder why people are getting so exciting about this DE issue.
It is just another DRM...

I will follow my MS lit path.

I'd rather use a DRM that can work on multiple devices and that is available for a large number of online stores, than a DRM that works strictly on PRS devices and is only available on Sony's store.

It's true that with LIT you can easily remove the DRM though... CSS and embedded fonts in ePub will enable better looking books on the other hand.

I'd rather use a DRM that can work on multiple devices and that is available for a large number of online stores, than a DRM that works strictly on PRS devices and is only available on Sony's store.

It's true that with LIT you can easily remove the DRM though... CSS and embedded fonts in ePub will enable better looking books on the other hand.

I would not buy Sony's LRF books even if they were DRM free.
What if I want to buy CyBook in 3 years? Then all my LRFs go to recyling bin including hard yearned money I paid for them. No chance.

I would not buy Sony's LRF books even if they were DRM free.
What if I want to buy CyBook in 3 years? Then all my LRFs go to recyling bin including hard yearned money I paid for them. No chance.

True, that's why we need an open standard.

I agree that the best solution from a consumer perspective would be DRM free ePub, but unfortunately, content providers are not ready to remove DRM yet (it'll happen one day, take a look at the music industry).
In the meantime I'd rather use a DRM format that's not linked to a specific store or device (Kindle & Amazon or Sony & eBookStore are good examples of what a consumer should avoid).

That's why I prefer the Mobi format, Hadrien. Multiple stores and multiple DRM providers.

That's why I prefer the Mobi format, Hadrien. Multiple stores and multiple DRM providers.

And a real market this way... We need stores to compete for the best price and content.

Adobe is going in that direction too.

Yes, I see ePub as very much of a potential successor to Mobi in terms of multiple device support, multiple stores, and multiple providers. It'll be interesting to see what happens to it. I think, though, it all depends on having a commonly-agreed DRM format. I know that ePub can support DRM - do you know if a standard for it exists yet?

(I know that most people think DRM is a Bad Thing, but we have to face the reality that most publishers aren't going to use a format without it.)

Yes, I see ePub as very much of a potential successor to Mobi in terms of multiple device support, multiple stores, and multiple providers. It'll be interesting to see what happens to it. I think, though, it all depends on having a commonly-agreed DRM format. I know that ePub can support DRM - do you know if a standard for it exists yet?

(I know that most people think DRM is a Bad Thing, but we have to face the reality that most publishers aren't going to use a format without it.)

No interoperable DRM yet. DRM is the best way to earn a lot of money for such a company, that's why they'll fight to make sure that their DRM is used by everyone.

I wonder why people are getting so exciting about this DE issue.
It is just another DRM...

I will follow my MS lit path.

Not so much for the additional DRM format... for me it is about a reflowable PDF document viewer for the Sony.

However, being able to read library eBooks that use DE DRM would be nice. Libraries aren't supporting .LRX.

Although if it is only going to be for the 505 I'm out of luck in any case.

BOb

Not so much for the additional DRM format... for me it is about a reflowable PDF document viewer for the Sony.

However, being able to read library eBooks that use DE DRM would be nice. Libraries aren't supporting .LRX.

Although if it is only going to be for the 505 I'm out of luck in any case.

BOb

Will LRX support time limited DRM? This would be a requirement for Library use.

Dale

Will LRX support time limited DRM? This would be a requirement for Library use.


I know not. Has Sony released an API for that format?

I was actually talking about digital editions supported library formats.

BOb

Adobe's DRM can support time limited DRM for libraries. Overdrive announced that they will be using ePub earlier this year already.

He demoed the PDF reflow. How did that look? Anything you could see?

Adobe's DRM can support time limited DRM for libraries. Overdrive announced that they will be using ePub earlier this year already.

Yep... I figured this out by running DE and looking at the "book info" on some of the PDFs I had and seeing this:

Permissions set by the publisher
Print Permissions : Allowed
Copy to Clipboard Permissions : Allowed
Document Expiration : Unlimited

BOb

I know not. Has Sony released an API for that format?

I was actually talking about digital editions supported library formats.

BOb

Do you expect Digital editions to have an LRX extension? You were very specific in your statement that it was LRX you were talking about.

Dale

Do you expect Digital editions to have an LRX extension? You were very specific in your statement that it was LRX you were talking about.


OK... lets read exactly what I wrote again:

However, being able to read library eBooks that use DE DRM would be nice. Libraries aren't supporting .LRX.

So, what I said was, I am hoping that having digital editions on the Sony reader would enable the use of library books. I did NOT say that I thought DE would support .LRX nor did I say that I thought libraries would use .LRX.

So, to restate...

It would be nice if when DE is supported on the Sony that it supports a DRM format which is used by libraries. I say this because I know that libraries do not use the .LRX format which is the only format that the Sony reader currently supports.

BOb

It would be nice if the sony store sold .ePub format books once the sony reader supports it. Is there a list of sellers who sell .ePub format?

So, to restate...

It would be nice if when DE is supported on the Sony that it supports a DRM format which is used by libraries. I say this because I know that libraries do not use the .LRX format which is the only format that the Sony reader currently supports.

BOb

I understand now. I misread your original post. Thanks for the clarification.

I'm pretty pissed at sony right now!:angry:

I paid some serious coin for a prs-500 because it claimed it could read pdfs....well we all know that was a big lie. Two months later they come out with a 505 spouting off that it will work with DE...whats it been 6 months or so since the 505 has been out and it still doesn't work with DE.

I was hoping they would update the firmware for the 500 so it could run DE too but it seems that is fading away. I'm not going to pay another $300 so I can have a reader that that can use DE. Many will probably say use this converter or do this to make it work. I have spent countless hours trying diffrent software and converts to no avail.

The sony bookstore is useless and their selection is pathetic. The reader could have been the next big thing if sony wouldn't of F'ed up and tried to go with their own retarded format that doesn't work with anything else. Mini Disk anyone????? I also have one of those too unfortunately.

I vow that if sony doesn't add support for the 500 I will never buy anything sony again. And my vaio computer,mini disk player, and reader will make some good target practice for my buddy's new AR-15:)

I'm pretty pissed at sony right now!:angry:


Sheesh, you weren't kidding, you really are mad!

Sheesh, you weren't kidding, you really are mad!

Can you blame him? I'm in the same boat. It's a small boat but it's getting pretty crowded in here. I'm just not going to let it get to me. I prefer to steam quietly in the corner while reading the books I can get to display well with the tools available even though I hate having to use those tools. I like my Sony for what it can do but given a free do-over I'd be looking pretty hard at the Kindle and iLiad, at least.

I paid some serious coin for a prs-500 because it claimed it could read pdfs....well we all know that was a big lie.
There are many, many things I do not like about Sony and about how they provide content for their Readers. Yet I have to to say you are not right.
PRS 500 *CAN* read pdf files.

You simply do not understand pdf.
It is *IMPOSSIBLE* to reflow pdf document automagically.
pdf document simply *does NOT have* the required info. It has no notions about lines, paragraphs, format. All information stored in the pdf file is "put letter A on this x,y coordinate, put letter B on that x,y coordinate". And that lack of "reflowability" is a feature. This lack of possibility to manipulate pdf file is what made pdf so popular with publishers, manual authors, electronic document submitters. You can "print out" the document into the pdf -- in other words create pdf document -- and you can be 100% sure that anybody can print the exact layout on any platform, and that nobody would be able to take your work and rehash it a little bit by reflowing it, changing paragraph style of fonts and publish it as his own work.

There are basically two ways to handle pdf *FORMATED FOR PRINTING ON THE A4 OR LEGAL PAPER* on a 6" screen.
- display it with 40% zoom - in which case the letters are really small
- display small fraction of the page at the time - in which case you have to scroll around like mad.

Please, do not blame Sony for your lack of common sense. Have you tried to print a pdf document on a 120x90m large piece of paper using very low resolution (166dpi) printer before rushing to buy Reader? Have you given it any thought at all?

PRS 500 has many shortcomings(*), yet it does support pdf documents very well. You can create pdf documents formatted for 90*120 mm page and the results are great. Complicated graphics, all fonts in the world including Russian, Central European (like Czech, Polish, Slovenian, ....), even Chinese or Japanese.

If you really do care about reading your average pdf files just buy a second-hand notebook (or tablet PC) with screen at least 15" big. Period. Until there are 15" large e-ink screens available you do not have to bother check pdf support on any e-ink ebook reader.

(*) like not being able to connect to the Reader without the use of specialized SW, lack of directory support, lack of user configurable font for txt files, weak rtf support, lack of user replaceable fonts (for non-english texts) ...

I certainly understand NickHiatt243's ... irritation, but I should point out that unless I missed something, there's still no mobile version of DE at all, so it's not really fair to blame Sony for that lack. :shrug:

They never promised they'd update the PRS500 with the new features, I was hopeful that they would at some point do so, but my own hope is fading fast. Actually, my hope that they'll update the firmware on the PRS505 is getting pretty threadbare.

They've been awfully quiet since CES in January ....

There are many, many things I do not like about Sony and about how they provide content for their Readers. Yet I have to to say you are not right.
PRS 500 *CAN* read pdf files.

You simply do not understand pdf.
It is *IMPOSSIBLE* to reflow pdf document automagically.
pdf document simply *does NOT have* the required info. It has no notions about lines, paragraphs, format. All information stored in the pdf file is "put letter A on this x,y coordinate, put letter B on that x,y coordinate". And that lack of "reflowability" is a feature. This lack of possibility to manipulate pdf file is what made pdf so popular with publishers, manual authors, electronic document submitters. You can "print out" the document into the pdf -- in other words create pdf document -- and you can be 100% sure that anybody can print the exact layout on any platform, and that nobody would be able to take your work and rehash it a little bit by reflowing it, changing paragraph style of fonts and publish it as his own work.

There are basically two ways to handle pdf *FORMATED FOR PRINTING ON THE A4 OR LEGAL PAPER* on a 6" screen.
- display it with 40% zoom - in which case the letters are really small
- display small fraction of the page at the time - in which case you have to scroll around like mad.

Please, do not blame Sony for your lack of common sense. Have you tried to print a pdf document on a 120x90m large piece of paper using very low resolution (166dpi) printer before rushing to buy Reader? Have you given it any thought at all?

PRS 500 has many shortcomings(*), yet it does support pdf documents very well. You can create pdf documents formatted for 90*120 mm page and the results are great. Complicated graphics, all fonts in the world including Russian, Central European (like Czech, Polish, Slovenian, ....), even Chinese or Japanese.

If you really do care about reading your average pdf files just buy a second-hand notebook (or tablet PC) with screen at least 15" big. Period. Until there are 15" large e-ink screens available you do not have to bother check pdf support on any e-ink ebook reader.

(*) like not being able to connect to the Reader without the use of specialized SW, lack of directory support, lack of user configurable font for txt files, weak rtf support, lack of user replaceable fonts (for non-english texts) ...

I bought the reader thinking I won't have to spend hours trying to convert/reconvert/rebuild or what ever you what to call it! I simply don't have time for that crap...I bought the thing expecting pdf's would reflow or they would include some kind of software to convert it to their own stupid format but they can even do that right!

I agree adobe is just as bad....they have not said a thing since spouting off in January that the reader will support DE! Throw us a fricken bone here!!!
And I'm quite sure sony could make DE work on the 500 but it would be more profitable for sony to say screw the 500 and only add DE support for the 505.

That's what irritates me about this whole DE issue...I can see the 500 users getting screwed over and either having to spend the money to upgrade or buy a different reader. Hell I could give a rats @ss about DE alls I want is to easily buy books from ebooks.com and put them on my reader is that so hard?


I hope Adobe and Sony prove me wrong but I doubt it:(

...alls I want is to easily buy books from ebooks.com and put them on my reader is that so hard?


I've bought from them a few times. I buy the MS Lit version, use Convert Lit and Calibre and have a perfectly good LRF version a minute after purchase.

If you bought the Reader expecting PDF reflow then I'm sorry but you didn't do your research very well. If you had you might have waited or gotten one of the larger eInk devices that handle A4 sized PDF's a little better.

Not to be disrespectful but you have to work within the constraints of the software, hardware, and the reality of the state of these devices. Perhaps paper books would suit you better.

Can you blame him? I'm in the same boat. It's a small boat but it's getting pretty crowded in here. I'm just not going to let it get to me. I prefer to steam quietly in the corner while reading the books I can get to display well with the tools available even though I hate having to use those tools. I like my Sony for what it can do but given a free do-over I'd be looking pretty hard at the Kindle and iLiad, at least.

The Kindle would do no better at formatting PDF's than the Reader does. PDF's are not text documents, they were designed for retaining formatting at specific sizes.

Even then, I'm sorry, but I just can't see myself getting so mad about such a thing. We're talking about a hobby here, aren't we? And it's not like anyone is forcing us to buy these things, early adopters that we are. I mean no disrespect, he's entitled to his opinion, I just don't see how someone can be so upset when there are so many other things wrong in this world in which to be irate.

The Kindle would do no better at formatting PDF's than the Reader does.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

NickHiatt243
You cannot blame Sony for that. All of the current 6" readers boast PDF support and none of them can display pdf properly. Moreover, Sony is the only reader that has a software - pdflrf - that makes pdf more or less readable on the reader without loosing any formating or spending days on editing a book converted from PDF.

I bought the reader thinking I won't have to spend hours trying to convert/reconvert/rebuild or what ever you what to call it! I simply don't have time for that crap...

:chinscratch: Call me dense but have you tried buying books for SONY at
http://ebookstore.sony.com/

I'm sure you will not have to convert ANY of their books for your PRS-500.


So far every eInk vendor out there that owns their own ebook format has handcuffed their device to their eBooks. (e.g. Fictionwise, Kindle ) I can't fault SONY for the same, it's good business.
What you must give SONY credit is for opening their reader and their LRF format. So that if the need arose it is easy to convert to the SONY format.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

NickHiatt243
You cannot blame Sony for that. All of the current 6" readers boast PDF support and none of them can display pdf properly. Moreover, Sony is the only reader that has a software - pdflrf - that makes pdf more or less readable on the reader without loosing any formating or spending days on editing a book converted from PDF.

yes sir I have used the pdflrf its almost there but you lose the zoom feature and is barley readable so i'm back at square one.

Why didn't sony include some type of software like pdflrf to begin with.

:chinscratch: Call me dense but have you tried buying books for SONY at
http://ebookstore.sony.com/

I'm sure you will not have to convert ANY of their books for your PRS-500.


So far every eInk vendor out there that owns their own ebook format has handcuffed their device to their eBooks. (e.g. Fictionwise, Kindle ) I can't fault SONY for the same, it's good business.
What you must give SONY credit is for opening their reader and their LRF format. So that if the need arose it is easy to convert to the SONY format.

Thats the thing the sony bookstore section is complete crap!!

I'm using my reader for computer certifications....CCNA,CCNP, MCSE just to name a few. Try to find any of these book in the sony bookstore. Yet they are ready available on ebooks.com.

Hell I don't mind converting to RTF since its easy to convert but then I lose the images that reinforce the the text.

As for someone posting that we are early adopters.....right!!!!...the sony reader has been out since 2006 and its 2008 now and I'm suppost to be all smiles that they are just now coming out with a standard format that possibly will not work with a first gen reader.

I'm using my reader for computer certifications....CCNA,CCNP, MCSE just to name a few. Try to find any of these book in the sony bookstore. Yet they are ready available on ebooks.com.

The Sony, or most of the readers we talk about on this site, are not very good with those type of books. They are just too small for that type of content and the content wouldn't deal well with reflowable text with all the charts and sections and formatting.

Jason

The Kindle would do no better at formatting PDF's than the Reader does. PDF's are not text documents, they were designed for retaining formatting at specific sizes.

Even then, I'm sorry, but I just can't see myself getting so mad about such a thing. We're talking about a hobby here, aren't we? And it's not like anyone is forcing us to buy these things, early adopters that we are. I mean no disrespect, he's entitled to his opinion, I just don't see how someone can be so upset when there are so many other things wrong in this world in which to be irate.

Wow. Can't you just let the guy blow off steam?

I for one will not be buying any more Sony products.

Unless they provide some real technical data to show that the 500 can't handle reflow, then this is all about money.

Please, do not blame Sony for your lack of common sense. Have you tried to print a pdf document on a 120x90m large piece of paper using very low resolution (166dpi) printer before rushing to buy Reader? Have you given it any thought at all?

Come now. No reason to be so harsh. I don't think I would call it "common sense" so much as specific knowledge. There are many rather intelligent people who don't know the particulars of the pdf format or even if they do might think that when they read the claim that a reader supports pdf that they have found a way to deal with all this in a usable fashion.

The Kindle would do no better at formatting PDF's than the Reader does. PDF's are not text documents, they were designed for retaining formatting at specific sizes.

Yep. That's why, even though they offer free PDF conversion, they make it explicit that it is "experimental". They don't claim they support it because they can't do it well. They've taken a lot of flack for that from people who don't understand. I can't tell you how many flames I've seen in the comments on sites like gizmodo and engadget along the lines of, "What do you mean they don't do PDF? PDF is teh most common ebook format ever. FAIL." They do PDF about as well as any 6" reader can. They're just honest about it.

Moreover, Sony is the only reader that has a software - pdflrf - that makes pdf more or less readable on the reader without loosing any formating or spending days on editing a book converted from PDF.

With respect, astra, that is incorrect. The Windows Mobipocket Reader does a reasonable job of converting PDF to Mobi format - in cases where such conversion is practical (ie it does OK with text PDFs, not so well with complex layouts).

With respect, astra, that is incorrect. The Windows Mobipocket Reader does a reasonable job of converting PDF to Mobi format - in cases where such conversion is practical (ie it does OK with text PDFs, not so well with complex layouts).

Frankly speaking when people complian about pdfs, I automatically assume that we speak about complex pdfs. If it is a simple text pdf then every ebook reader benefits from Mobipocket Reader. Although I was not impressed by results. I believe Adobe Acrobat Pro does much better job.

I, personally, gave up on pdfs. I learned to live with the l....misleading Son'y statements that it supports PDFs.

I don't use them either - I just wanted to clarify the possibly erroneous impression that the Sony Reader is somehow "unique" in having tools which can convert them to other formats.

For reading technical pdfs (at least one collumn, I have never tried to read anything else) sony+pdflrf is a unique "team". I am not aware of any better way to read CCNA, CCNP etc., pdfs on 6" ebook readers than this one.

pdflrf works for these type of books but like I said the text is very small...its hard to read even if you have good eyesight. But the awesome thing is that it keeps the images and layout of the pdf...it's almost there..it just needs to be fine tuned and add a way to make the zoom work.

I want know why sony couldn't come up with a converter like this. Most people see the box and it states that it can read pdf's. How ever they fail to mention you have to format and clean up a regular size pdf to make it work....most people don't have that kind of time or patience.

My question is if someone can code a decent converter why can't Adobe and sony make DE work with the reader. Reader support should have been the first firmware upgrade when DE 1.0 came out.

The sony reader is an awesome device but if you can't put content on it or your bookstore selection is weak then it's useless! Look at the ipod its easy to put content on and easy to use...pretty easy to see why it's so popular.
That's why I keep saying if sony had not of fed up and dropped the ball they could be the ipod of ereaders.

Instead of tossing in stupid filler items like a music player and picture viewer they could of focused more on expanding thier bookstore or partnering with Borders or Barns and Noble and figuring out how to make DE on the reader before releasing the 505.

The Sony, or most of the readers we talk about on this site, are not very good with those type of books. They are just too small for that type of content and the content wouldn't deal well with reflowable text with all the charts and sections and formatting.

Jason
One other note is that NO eink reader will deal with DRM protected PDF. The iLiad supposedly will be able to view password protected PDF, but DRM PDF is off-limits. So why would Sony sell them since they won't work?

Yep. That's why, even though they offer free PDF conversion, they make it explicit that it is "experimental". They don't claim they support it because they can't do it well. They've taken a lot of flack for that from people who don't understand. I can't tell you how many flames I've seen in the comments on sites like gizmodo and engadget along the lines of, "What do you mean they don't do PDF? PDF is teh most common ebook format ever. FAIL." They do PDF about as well as any 6" reader can. They're just honest about it.
Is there actually any software that can do a perfect PDF conversion? I've yet to ear of such. Even Adobe Acrobat Pro cannot do a perfect conversion even if the PDF is just all text.

Is there actually any software that can do a perfect PDF conversion?
There *is* such SW. It ain't perfect, as you are going to see in a moment :D, but it works reasonably well. I dare to say, it works much better than some expensive commercial equivalents.

Step 0
install Ghostscript
The link to the download is on the GSview site

Step 1
Install GSview

Step 2
Open pdf file in GSview and "print" it out as a series of tiff pictures

Step 3
Run resulting pictures through a good OCR program

In some cases this was the path of least resistance for me for getting some complex tables that were sent to me in "electronic form" and I needed to work with them.

Originally Posted by Alisa:
Yep. That's why, even though they offer free PDF conversion, they make it explicit that it is "experimental". They don't claim they support it because they can't do it well. They've taken a lot of flack for that from people who don't understand. I can't tell you how many flames I've seen in the comments on sites like gizmodo and engadget along the lines of, "What do you mean they don't do PDF? PDF is teh most common ebook format ever. FAIL." They do PDF about as well as any 6" reader can. They're just honest about it.

Is there actually any software that can do a perfect PDF conversion? I've yet to ear of such. Even Adobe Acrobat Pro cannot do a perfect conversion even if the PDF is just all text.
__________________
Jon

Precisely. My point is that Amazon's conversion is pretty much on par with everyone else's (bad) so they don't claim to support it. People who just look at the bullet-point list of features see Amazon: no PDF support vs Sony: PDF support. Sadly if you believe that claim and don't research before buying, you may end up justifiably outraged like NickHiatt. I'm sure it cost Amazon some sales to be honest.

I wonder why people are getting so exciting about this DE issue.
It is just another DRM...
I will follow my MS lit path.

The benefit is that it offers more selections and shopping options, If the Sony Store doesn't Have it maybe Books On board does etc, If the industry can't adopt a universal standard then the logical choice for hardware manufacturer's is to allow multiple formats to be read on their device.
See the Quote Below!
I'd rather use a DRM that can work on multiple devices and that is available for a large number of online stores, than a DRM that works strictly on PRS devices and is only available on Sony's store.

It's true that with LIT you can easily remove the DRM though... CSS and embedded fonts in ePub will enable better looking books on the other hand.

I totally Agree!

It would be nice if the sony store sold .ePub format books once the sony reader supports it. Is there a list of sellers who sell .ePub format?

To my Knowledge Books On Board is the only one selling epub format.

I'm pretty pissed at sony right now!:angry:

I paid some serious coin for a prs-500 because it claimed it could read pdfs....well we all know that was a big lie. Two months later they come out with a 505 spouting off that it will work with DE...whats it been 6 months or so since the 505 has been out and it still doesn't work with DE.

I was hoping they would update the firmware for the 500 so it could run DE too but it seems that is fading away. I'm not going to pay another $300 so I can have a reader that that can use DE. Many will probably say use this converter or do this to make it work. I have spent countless hours trying diffrent software and converts to no avail.

The sony bookstore is useless and their selection is pathetic. The reader could have been the next big thing if sony wouldn't of F'ed up and tried to go with their own retarded format that doesn't work with anything else. Mini Disk anyone????? I also have one of those too unfortunately.

I vow that if sony doesn't add support for the 500 I will never buy anything sony again. And my vaio computer,mini disk player, and reader will make some good target practice for my buddy's new AR-15:)

Did you happen to research a little before you bought? I have found all of the issues good and bad for all the devices on my list, My reservation with Sony is the firmware release, and their History of abandoning a format. But I know this going into it. I also know that if a gadget has been out any length of time there is a good chance that right after I buy it, The New versions will be announced. Just my Luck! But I do understand your frustration, Do you remember Divx Players I bought into that whole fiasco.

JJ