My wife wants to read some science fiction that isn't too heavy on the science. She's a smart girl, but if she read Sundiver by David Brin for example, she would skip whole pages on the details of the sun.

I guess what she's looking for is soft sci-fi. Do you know what I mean? Can anyone make any recommendations?

asimov

Liaden Universe Stories. I'd start with Agent of Change or Conflict of Honors.
http://www.webscriptions.net/p-595-agent-of-change.aspx
http://www.webscriptions.net/p-594-conflict-of-honors.aspx

I've just finished Stardoc by S L Viehl. It's an intersting read that fits the soft sci-fi description. Also try works by Kristine Kathryn Rusch...

i would recommend René Barjavel, although i do not know whether he is available in ebooks. his books are quite powerful and my experience is that many elements of them will remain with you for years afterwards. not much science to speak of, it's all about the story.

Liaden Universe Stories. I'd start with Agent of Change or Conflict of Honors.
http://www.webscriptions.net/p-595-agent-of-change.aspx
http://www.webscriptions.net/p-594-conflict-of-honors.aspx
Second the motion. A great place to start. :thumbsup:

Anything by Ray Bradbury.

Hope I remember the names well:

Planet of adventure - Jack Vance
The moon is a harsh mistress - Heinlein
The puppet masters - Heinlein

Women in general really don't seem to hit it off with SF don't they ??!!

Anything by Ray Bradbury.

Bradbury is too wierd for me to recommend him to anyone, I'm afraid!

I'd suggest Harry Harrison's "Stainless Steel Rat" books. A great read, not too "techy", and very, very funny indeed.

Hope I remember the names well:

Planet of adventure - Jack Vance
The moon is a harsh mistress - Heinlein
The puppet masters - Heinlein

Women in general really don't seem to hit it off with SF don't they ??!!

Also "Friday" by Heinlein

Everything by Jack Vance is focourse very good. Louis McMaster Bujold is probably suitable. Other recommende authors in this context is John Scalze, Julian May, C.J. Cherryh, Nancy Kress, Sheri Tepper, Liz Williams, Connie Willis, ...

Women in general really don't seem to hit it off with SF don't they ??!!

I'd be curious to see if that was actually the case--It seems to me that girls *tend* to be more into fantasy and guys sci fi... but it's certainly not absolute.

Is she looking for sci-fi as opposed to fantasy? I have a lot more fantasy suggestions than sci fi :(

CJ Cherryh writes both styles, fantasy and fiction. She masters the language masterfully and cooks up intriguing stories. Alas, she is also accused of turning around the pot with long descriptions. But I like her for her building of worlds.

I'd be curious to see if that was actually the case--It seems to me that girls *tend* to be more into fantasy and guys sci fi... but it's certainly not absolute.

Is she looking for sci-fi as opposed to fantasy? I have a lot more fantasy suggestions than sci fi :(

Actually, I like both... but I've probably read more fantasy. Terry Brooks is one of my favorites, as is David Eddings.

BOb

Women in general really don't seem to hit it off with SF don't they ??!! Huh? In 2008, I've read 48 books, 12 of them Science Fiction. Of the 16 books read on my Kindle, 9 were SF, 4 were fantasy, and 3 were mysteries.

How about SF stories by non-SF authors as a way of avoiding excessive nerdiness?

I remember really enjoying 'O-Zone' by Paul Theroux.

Huh? In 2008, I've read 48 books, 12 of them Science Fiction. Of the 16 books read on my Kindle, 9 were SF, 4 were fantasy, and 3 were mysteries.Oh, good!
May I ask, Elsi, if your friends read SF? My wife and the women around me do not read SF so I was inclined to think as WDecraene. Maybe I was mistaken.

Huh? In 2008, I've read 48 books, 12 of them Science Fiction. Of the 16 books read on my Kindle, 9 were SF, 4 were fantasy, and 3 were mysteries.

Well, that's why I said "in general". :) Personally I only know one woman who likes SF, the rest being more into general fiction.

Oh, good!
May I ask, Elsi, if your friends read SF? My wife and the women around me do not read SF so I was inclined to think as WDecraene. Maybe I was mistaken. Well, most of the women in my family read SF. My mother, both sisters, and my 3 nieces.

My daughter doesn't read SF, but she enjoys SF television and movies. When I asked why she doesn't like to read SF, she said it's because they use words she doesn't understand. Pressed, it turns out that the words she doesn't understand are made-up terms for technology that doesn't exist. Since she's dyslexic, she gets frustrated because she doesn't know whether it's a made-up word or she's just not decoding the word correctly. With TV and movies, she catches on to terms like "phaser" and "tricorder" because she can see the devices in use.

Well, most of the women in my family read SF. My mother, both sisters, and my 3 nieces. ...

[cough]Freaks![cough] ;)

You'll have to take this as a Given Truth (which would suit me perfectly, so then I can just arbitrarily make things up. Like, Elsi, you still haven't paid me back that $50 you owe me), but I recall reading in several newspapers a few years ago (it was one of those stories that got tossed around) that females read more fiction books in all genres than males did. If I remember correctly, SF was the genre in which they had the lowest percentage, but it was still over 50%. In all other genres it could be significantly moreso. Where gender might matter, females had a significantly greater impact on sales of fiction than males.

So, given the Absolute Truth of my every utterance, and the Total Infallibility of my memory, I believe, Elsi, that "in general" your limited sampling actually expands quite reasonably.

Personally I find that in the niches and back alleys of the internet that are dedicated to SF, I get a pleasant and equal "balance" of genders (where apparent, which it is not usually) that makes for a nice, even-tempered environment, without a particular brand of googly-bit getting in the way of enjoyable conversation. io9 (http://io9.com/) would be one example.

Cheers,
Marc

Interesting comments, folks. I don't necessarily agree that Asimov is "soft' science fiction, though some of his work can be considered softer than others.

I'll take a look at some of your recommendations!

Interesting comments, folks. I don't necessarily agree that Asimov is "soft' science fiction, though some of his work can be considered softer than others.

I'll take a look at some of your recommendations!

Incidentally, I found The Sparrow and Children of God (Mary Doria Russell) to be "soft" on the science (as in, "tread softly", not negligent) and, although I have my own reasons for disliking the books, my opinion is formed out of respect for the writing and the stories (they're in the "first contact" sub-genre). Their popularity is certainly justified. I have no hesitation in recommending them.

Cheers,
Marc

I would think about Peter F Hamilton's 'Nights Dawn' Trilogy.

Granted each book is about 1000 pages or so, but it is a series I have re-read about 3 times.

There is also a collection of short stories called 'A Second Chance at Eden' set in the same universe, all leading up to the trilogy.

Interesting comments, folks. I don't necessarily agree that Asimov is "soft' science fiction, though some of his work can be considered softer than others.


The "Foundation" trilogy might be a good one to choose; that's certainly not "hard" SF.

The "Foundation" trilogy might be a good one to choose; that's certainly not "hard" SF.

I agree about the Foundation series not being very "hard" SF, but i found them a chore to get through. I just don't think there's enough action for her. I want her to get hooked on sci-fi, so I am hoping her first few reads are memorable.

I'm a girl, and I've read a lot of books in my time. I'd say 50% were scifi, the other half a mix of classic lit, fantasy, mysteries, romance, mainstream - just whatever I could get my hands on. But I don't know any other women who are scifi reading fans.

Definitely try Asimov's "Foundation" series. Your wife will find it easy reading, yet the concepts are mind-blowing. And I'd also suggest the monthly "Asimov" scifi magazine. The mag is loaded with lots of readable short stories, many of which go on to become famous. Or become ruined into movies. (There was a horrible movie with Cheryl Ladd, where far future people come back and crash airplanes for some reason or another. I remember thinking the story was much better than the movie.) But I digress.

I've been downloading the magazine onto my e-reader, and it translates to the device just fine. Happy Reading!

Some memorable books that I'd recommend:

"Rendezvous With Rama" - Arthur C. Clarke.
"Tau Zero" - Poul Anderson.
"The Forever War" - Joe Haldeman.
"The Practice Effect" - David Brin
"The Uplift War" - David Brin
"The Mote in God's Eye" - Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle
"The Stainless Steel Rat" (and sequels) - Harry Harrison
"Ringworld" - Larry Niven
"The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" - Robert Heinlein

I could name loads more, but those all strike me as being great for an SF "novice".

One more suggestion: fantasy rather than SF, but one of the best books I've read in recent years - "Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell" by Susanna Clarke. I was just blown away by this book.

Interesting comments, folks. I don't necessarily agree that Asimov is "soft' science fiction, though some of his work can be considered softer than others.

I'll take a look at some of your recommendations!
Well, the paper on the solution properties of thiotimoline was, I thought, rather soft science-wise speaking.:bookworm:

Some memorable books that I'd recommend:

"Rendezvous With Rama" - Arthur C. Clarke.
"Tau Zero" - Poul Anderson.
"The Forever War" - Joe Haldeman.
"The Practice Effect" - David Brin
"The Uplift War" - David Brin
"The Mote in God's Eye" - Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle
"The Stainless Steel Rat" (and sequels) - Harry Harrison
"Ringworld" - Larry Niven
"The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" - Robert Heinlein

I could name loads more, but those all strike me as being great for an SF "novice".
These are all great recommendations. My only quibble is that I'd replace "The Uplift War" with "Startide Rising." It's one book earlier in the series; still a great starting point. And who wouldn't like a book in which (paraphrasing now) a character in the middle of a space battle experiences "a sudden overpowering sense of déjà vu" and recognizes it as being due to "a near miss with a probability weapon"? What a concept!

Xenophon

These are all great recommendations. My only quibble is that I'd replace "The Uplift War" with "Startide Rising."

They're both great books - I just think that "The Uplift War" is a better story - much more going on in it. IIRC, the events of "Startide Rising" and "The Uplift War" happen in parallel, so it doesn't really matter which one you read first.

I agree about the Foundation series not being very "hard" SF, but i found them a chore to get through. I just don't think there's enough action for her. I want her to get hooked on sci-fi, so I am hoping her first few reads are memorable.

If she also likes mysteries I like the R. Daneel Olivaw (was it?) series by Asimov. I think the titles where:

Caves of Steel
The Naked Sun
Robots of Dawn

Very soft SF... more like mysteries of the robotic laws.

BOb

Eric Flint, Andre Norton, Bujould, Alan Dean Foster, (Bujolds Miles Vorkosigan would be a good one for her to read), SM Stirling....all of these have great stories but not "HARD core SF" in the that they don't dwell a lot on the High end technical stuff.IMHO that is.

(There was a horrible movie with Cheryl Ladd, where far future people come back and crash airplanes for some reason or another. I remember thinking the story was much better than the movie.) But I digress.

I enjoyed that movie (back then) didn't know it was based on a novel, gonner do a bit of research :)


Movie is based on John Varley's book 'Millennium' and it's only available on the darknet :(

This may sound funny, but Johanna Lindsey (romance novelist) wrote a few decent sci-fi/romance novels that might be a good bridge. I don't recall the titles (been 15 years or so) but I do recall enjoying them and they had some interesting twists on technology I hadn't seen elsewhere.

-MJ

These are all great recommendations. My only quibble is that I'd replace "The Uplift War" with "Startide Rising." It's one book earlier in the series; still a great starting point. And who wouldn't like a book in which (paraphrasing now) a character in the middle of a space battle experiences "a sudden overpowering sense of déjà vu" and recognizes it as being due to "a near miss with a probability weapon"? What a concept!

Xenophon
i'm adding that book to my own list on the basis of that incident alone.

Thanks everyone. I've managed to get her interested in The Caves of Steel, part of the Robot Series by Isaac Asimov. She seems to be enjoying it. I am going to suggest some of the fantasy work recommended here. Thanks again!

For soft SF, I'm surprised someone hasn't suggested the entire Star Wars catalog. Easy to read, plenty of action, more about the people than the technology, and the tech is colloquially-worded for easy understanding at any level. Same goes for most of the Star Trek catalog, for that matter.

For soft SF, I'm surprised someone hasn't suggested the entire Star Wars catalog. Easy to read, plenty of action, more about the people than the technology, and the tech is colloquially-worded for easy understanding at any level. Same goes for most of the Star Trek catalog, for that matter.


Hmm, if going for the Star trek catalog, would suggest going for books by some of the better authors such as Diane Duane, Peter David, D.C. Fontana, etc.

I've found that that usually gives a better introduction to the franchise then just picking one up at random :-) .

For soft SF, I'm surprised someone hasn't suggested the entire Star Wars catalog. Easy to read, plenty of action, more about the people than the technology, and the tech is colloquially-worded for easy understanding at any level. Same goes for most of the Star Trek catalog, for that matter.

When you are trying to get your kid to eat their vegetables you put cheese on top of the brussel sprouts, not the brussel sprouts on a saucer of cheese. If these are for a person that needs to be 'eased' into SF, I think the last two books you would want to put in front of them would be SW or ST. I can almost hear a high pitched yelp coming from his g/f as she carefully backs away.

-MJ

Actually, my wife loves Star Trek. She even went to a convention once, a long time ago. I think she would be interested, except she doesn't know where to start, with either series. There's so many dang books.

Allen M. Steele's Coyote Trilogy (Coyote, Coyote Frontier and Coyote Rising)

While some of Steele's work contains quite a bit of modern astro-science jargon, the Coyote series is much more just pure adventure and intrigue. When I originally gave Coyote an SFBC (science fiction book club) readers review I described it as something like:

first half is Political-Spy intrigue, and the second half is Mark Twain frontier adventure.

A great novel!

Donn

P.S. My 75 yo Mother, who is absolutely no SF fan, just loved Coyote too. It was probably the only science fiction she ever read.

Allen M. Steele's Coyote Trilogy (Coyote, Coyote Frontier and Coyote Rising)

While some of Steele's work contains quite a bit of modern astro-science jargon, the Coyote series is much more just pure adventure and intrigue. When I originally gave Coyote an SFBC (science fiction book club) readers review I described it as something like:

first half is Political-Spy intrigue, and the second half is Mark Twain frontier adventure.

A great novel!

Donn

P.S. My 75 yo Mother, who is absolutely no SF fan, just loved Coyote too. It was probably the only science fiction she ever read.

That does sound interesting! Thanks!

Actually, my wife loves Star Trek. She even went to a convention once, a long time ago. I think she would be interested, except she doesn't know where to start, with either series. There's so many dang books.

I agree... start with those by the authors busy mentioned.

BOb

Women in general really don't seem to hit it off with SF don't they ??!!

I guess Ann Rand, Anne McCaffrey, Andre Norton, Mercedes Lackey, Emma Bull and a host of others would probably disagree with you...

For that matter, Steve Jordan's Berserker (the Kestral Voyages) might work.

After all it is set in a Star Trek-esque Universe, and has a strong female lead character. And if enough people ask for it, he might write another Krestal Voyage. :)

Actually, my wife loves Star Trek. She even went to a convention once, a long time ago. I think she would be interested, except she doesn't know where to start, with either series. There's so many dang books.

True... figuring out where to begin with either series is pretty daunting...

For that matter, Steve Jordan's Berserker (the Kestral Voyages) might work.

After all it is set in a Star Trek-esque Universe, and has a strong female lead character. And if enough people ask for it, he might write another Krestal Voyage. :)

Yeah... I might...

Anne McCaffrey's books are often a good read , in both Fantasy and SciFi genre .

Has anyone mentioned Elizabeth Moon? She has a couple of series with female protangonists. (Herris Serrano, Vatta)
I love her scifi, my husband prefers her fantasy.

Has anyone mentioned Elizabeth Moon? She has a couple of series with female protangonists. (Herris Serrano, Vatta)
I love her scifi, my husband prefers her fantasy.

Some of hers' I like , also she has co-authored with Anne McCaffrey ...

Anne McCaffrey's books are often a good read , in both Fantasy and SciFi genre .

Indeed, they are a great introduction, as they are not heavy on the Jargon, and can be a light and fun read.

From Her Science fiction series, Start off with her Pegasus series, as it still quiet contemporary, near future, and starts off with a series of short stories in the first book.

1) To Ride Pegasus
2) Pegasus in Flight
3) Pegasus in space

Then move on to her Tower and the Hive series, which is set in the same universe, but much further in the future. The series consists of 5 books, namely

1) The Rowan
2) Damia
3) Damia's Children
4) Lyons Pride
5) The Tower and the Hive


Her Crystal Singers series is also nice, and set in its own univers, more or less. The books are

1) Crystal Singer
2) Killashandra
3) Crystal Line

If you enjoy those, Her ship series is also nice, and each is a self contained story set in the same universe. Of them, I personally really Like 2 of them, namely

The Ship Who Sang &

The Ship who searched

Finally Her Planet Pirates series is also good, and more of a classis SF series, but could be good stepping stone for more hard SF novels.

Well, Hope that helps

Elizebeth Moon's SF (Vatta's War series and Familias Regnant, which includes the Herris Serano books) are all good. They have a similar flavor to the Honor Harrington books.

Now the Honor Harrington books have the advantage of being freely available:

http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/ (disk 9 - At All Costs)

Yes - it's legal!

Ace

I love them but I wouldn't call the Harrington books "soft" by any definition. :unafraid:

I also second the Elizabeth Moon and Anne McCaffrey suggestions -- McCaffrey's "Pern" series has so little science content that many folks will argue that it isn't SciFi at all.

I'd also suggest Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game. The science in there is fairly understated, and it's certainly a very good story. The various sequels I wouldn't recommend without knowing how the first one was liked, though. Actually, I don't recommend the first set of sequels at all, but that's me.

I'd also suggest Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game. The science in there is fairly understated, and it's certainly a very good story. The various sequels I wouldn't recommend without knowing how the first one was liked, though. Actually, I don't recommend the first set of sequels at all, but that's me.

She actually read Ender's game and enjoyed it many years ago. For some reason I could not got into the sequels. I can't even remember finishing them.

Thanks everyone for these suggestions! It certainly will be fun researching all these options.

Actually, my wife loves Star Trek. She even went to a convention once, a long time ago. I think she would be interested, except she doesn't know where to start, with either series. There's so many dang books.

I recommend Peter David's Star Trek New Frontier.

Must be some other women they're talking about. ;)

Does she like philosophy? I'd suggest C.J. Cherryh's Wave Without A Shore. Orson Scott Card's Songmaster might also be a good choice. If she likes politics, Frank Herbert's original Dune is a classic. I think Heinlein is a little heavy on science and engineering for someone who doesn't like those subjects, though he has great characters and tells a ripping good story. His "Young Adult" books, e.g. Have Spacesuit, Will Travel are quite good. Um... Arther C. Clark's Dolphin Island is very readable, and rather less on science than characterization.

It would help to know what else she likes to read. I could make better recommendations, then.

Edit: Somehow I missed seeing that this discussion went on for 4 pages before I posted. Knowing that she liked Ender's Game, I would recommend John Barnes' Orbital Resonance and probably Ian Banks' The Player of Games. I also highly recommend Card's Speaker for the Dead (I didn't think the books after that were quite as good) and probably Ender's Shadow, which tells a story overlapping the time period of Ender's Game, but from the point of view of Bean, one of the other characters. I liked the sequels, but others have given them mixed reviews.

"Soft Science Fiction" makes me think of social sciences SF as opposed to hard sciences SF, and I'm thinking that sort of stuff is maybe not what you're looking for. If you're looking for good storytelling and ideas without all the techie stuffs, I'd recommend Roger Zelazny's Amber series.

Must be some other women they're talking about. ;)

Does she like philosophy? I'd suggest C.J. Cherryh's Wave Without A Shore. Orson Scott Card's Songmaster might also be a good choice. If she likes politics, Frank Herbert's original Dune is a classic. I think Heinlein is a little heavy on science and engineering for someone who doesn't like those subjects, though he has great characters and tells a ripping good story. His "Young Adult" books, e.g. Have Spacesuit, Will Travel are quite good. Um... Arther C. Clark's Dolphin Island is very readable, and rather less on science than characterization.

It would help to know what else she likes to read. I could make better recommendations, then.

Edit: Somehow I missed seeing that this discussion went on for 4 pages before I posted. Knowing that she liked Ender's Game, I would recommend John Barnes' Orbital Resonance and probably Ian Banks' The Player of Games. I also highly recommend Card's Speaker for the Dead (I didn't think the books after that were quite as good) and probably Ender's Shadow, which tells a story overlapping the time period of Ender's Game, but from the point of view of Bean, one of the other characters. I liked the sequels, but others have given them mixed reviews.I was wondering when you'd get in this one Neko.

I love your suggestions. Any more?
You know, all the ones you gave me so far are in my reading plan or I've read them since.
You go girl!

Sorry, I've been really busy with work and grad school (and dealing with severe allergies) so I haven't been following new threads very well. :(

Other suggestions... Well, there's Madeline L'Engle, but I'm not even sure whether to call her books SF, even though they often get classified as such.

Part of my problem in recommending something is that a lot of the SF I like has plots that revolve around some point of science. To me, that's sort of the point of SF. Otherwise, it's just mystery/romance/westerns etc. in space. Which is ok, I guess, but not usually what I'm interested in. I like fantasy, too, but in this thread we're talking about science fiction.

But then, most people are more ok with some kinds of science than they might think. Sundiver might be a bit heavy on solar physics, but there's also a lot of very interesting character development. Another book by David Brin, Earth, has some stuff about black holes and computers in it, and a fair amount about ecological disaster, but also some very human stories. Cherryh's books don't worry about physics so much, but tend to have a lot of complex anthropology and linguistic elements (which I like). I'd really have to recommend Cherryh's Finity's End in this context, I think. IMHO, it's one of her most readable and engaging books. Another good pick by Cherryh might be Cuckoo's Egg. (I liked Cyteen, as well, but it's a much longer, more complex work.)

If I were going to recommend anything by Zelazny in this context, it would probably be Doorways in the Sand, which stands alone rather than being part of an extended series, is very readable, and only involves a bit of science around achiral chemistry that is pretty clearly explained.

How about Spider Robinson's Callahan stories? You have to like puns, though.

Oh! I know. Zenna Hendersons "People" stories, collected in Ingathering. Possibly Dreamsnake, by Vonda McIntyre, or perhaps James H. Schmitz' Telzey books (available from Baen). Of Heinlein's books, Double Star is much more about politics than science. For straight-up adventure, maybe Alan Dean Foster, either the Flinx books or Nor Crystal Tears (very good first-contact book).

I haven't read much in the way of Star Trek or Star Wars books, but I did like The Final Reflection quite a bit.

Edit: I meant to mention Joan Vinge's Cat stories: Psion, Catspaw, and Dreamfall. Her short story collection Eyes of Amber is also excellent.

I like pretty much anything in any genre that is not too dark(he dies, she dies and everyone else is miserable), has good character development and a complex, consistent world view. I don't like pages of discussion of obscure science trivia that have a limited impact on the plot. Or, for that matter, pages of obscure mythical history with no impact on the plot(like in a fantasy epic I recently read). I don't know if that makes what I like 'soft'.

Books I have enjoyed are
Lois Bujold--Miles Vorkosigan series, especially the prequel 'Cordelia's Honor': Very funny, and kind of 'space opera', but lots of exploring social conflicts and the effect of technology on society(whithout shoving your face in it)
Verner Vinge--A Fire Upon the Deep and his short stories. Excellent characters and a gripping story.
Connie Willis--To Say Nothing of the Dog Kinda borderline SF I suppose; involves time travel, so there is historical stuff as well

Of course, it would take years just to read all the suggestions in this thread!:p Years well-spent, of course...

edit--Sorry to hear of your allergies, Neko--they are miserable!

......
Of course, it would take years just to read all the suggestions in this thread!:p Years well-spent, of course...


When, If, they become available in e-format!!

I like pretty much anything in any genre that is not too dark(he dies, she dies and everyone else is miserable), has good character development and a complex, consistent world view.
I'm with you, and I'd add that I also don't much care for stories in which the protagonists kill everyone in sight (well, anyone, really) with no sign of remorse. ("But they were all bad!") This makes reading "military sf" difficult, though there are certainly exceptions. I even have problems with wholesale slaughter of "orcs" or whatever their moral equivalent is. I like characters to take ethics seriously.

Wow you guys continue to delight me with your recommendations. We'll probably be picking up a few this weekend so I'll let you all know what she ends up picking. Thanks again!

For soft SF, I'm surprised someone hasn't suggested the entire Star Wars catalog. Easy to read, plenty of action, more about the people than the technology, and the tech is colloquially-worded for easy understanding at any level. Same goes for most of the Star Trek catalog, for that matter.
There are some Star Trek books heavy into the techy stuff. If you are not into that, they can be hard to read.

Actually, my wife loves Star Trek. She even went to a convention once, a long time ago. I think she would be interested, except she doesn't know where to start, with either series. There's so many dang books.
Do you want to start in published order or maybe timeline order? Timeline order is easy as I have a quite good timeline I can refer to if you'd like.

I know this isn't SF but Fantasy. I'd highly recommend the Discworld series by Terry Pratchett. It's highly fun and highly addictive. Also, it's not hard fantasy. It's also quite funny too. Terry makes fun of a lot of fantasy elements that you find in a lot of fantasy type works. So if you like something with good characters that's funny, then Discword is it.

I know this isn't SF but Fantasy. I'd highly recommend the Discworld series by Terry Pratchett. It's highly fun and highly addictive. Also, it's not hard fantasy. It's also quite funny too. Terry makes fun of a lot of fantasy elements that you find in a lot of fantasy type works. So if you like something with good characters that's funny, then Discword is it.

To second Jon's recommendation, and to give you an idea of how they're not hard fantasy, but also science-fiction-friendly, there have been three Science of Discworld books which alternate between talking about "science" (in our world) and a Discworld storytelling. They manage even this in an amusing manner.

As Jon says, they can make fun of "fantasy type works", but also there's a rational science behind them too that is also made fun of (in that it's only rational within the logical bounds of irrationality that pervade Discworld - trust me, it makes perfect, easy sense in the books. ;) ). Here's a wikipedia link to a few "Minor Discworld Concepts":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_Discworld_concepts

Have a look at "Quantum" and "Retrophrenology" for instance. I think the "soft"ness of the definitions might be right up the alley of someone who doesn't want to get bogged down in hard science while waiting for a plot to come along.

Cheers,
Marc

There are some Star Trek books heavy into the techy stuff. If you are not into that, they can be hard to read.

True... I was mostly thinking of the Original Series books, which tended to avoid heavy tech (not completely, but mostly).

Do you want to start in published order or maybe timeline order? Timeline order is easy as I have a quite good timeline I can refer to if you'd like.

What do you recommend? I would think timeline order, as the story would be easier to follow.

What do you recommend? I would think timeline order, as the story would be easier to follow.

Timeline plz :D

To second Jon's recommendation, and to give you an idea of how they're not hard fantasy, but also science-fiction-friendly, there have been three Science of Discworld books which alternate between talking about "science" (in our world) and a Discworld storytelling. They manage even this in an amusing manner.

As Jon says, they can make fun of "fantasy type works", but also there's a rational science behind them too that is also made fun of (in that it's only rational within the logical bounds of irrationality that pervade Discworld - trust me, it makes perfect, easy sense in the books. ;) ). Here's a wikipedia link to a few "Minor Discworld Concepts":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_Discworld_concepts

Have a look at "Quantum" and "Retrophrenology" for instance. I think the "soft"ness of the definitions might be right up the alley of someone who doesn't want to get bogged down in hard science while waiting for a plot to come along.

Cheers,
Marc

Should we try starting at book 1 for the Discworld series?

What do you recommend? I would think timeline order, as the story would be easier to follow.

I read them in numberical (published/series) order. But, for the most part each novel stands alone, and most, where they timeline is important let you know that info at the beginning of the books.

I actually like the "Captains Table" books... there is one in each genre series and they are some of the best books. And, I think the best was Fire Ship, the Voyager series version which was written by Diane Carey. I think most of my favories in the Trek anthologies are by Carey, probably followed by Peter David and DC Fontanna.

BOb

Has anyone mentioned Ursula Le Guin? Surely a great "soft" SF writer if ever there was one. Can't think of anything by her that I *wouldn't* recommend. Good characterisation, strange but believable societies, and ideas that make you look at your own world in a new light.

Oh, and Mary Gentle -- "Golden Witchbreed" & "Ancient Light" for evocative adventure on an alien world, "Ash: A Secret History" (I think this was published in several volumes in the USA) for a tale about a female medieval mercenary captain in an increasingly alternate world, which *is* actually SF, but with the trappings of fantasy, the White Crow books for "science fiction" in a world where hermetic magic is the way the world works.

Jo Walton's latest series, beginning with Farthing, is a trilogy of excellent murder mysteries set the late 1940s in a world where Britain made peace with Hitler in 1941. Sort of Agatha Christie meets George Orwell... She's also written some good Arthurian fantasy and a Victorian novel of manners about dragons which won the World Fantasy Award.

Robert Silverberg has written reams of "soft" SF too, very readable. "Lord Valentine's Castle" and sequels are great for epic adventure on a vast alien world, and he's written many many excellent short stories.

Better stop now, I'm getting carried away...

You talked me into it - Farthing is the next one I'll read. And I'll also look into the Arthurian series. Thanks!

Should we try starting at book 1 for the Discworld series?

Some people suggest that you can start at different points, and even have specific books to suggest. If you get that in this thread from others, note that I respect their opinion, even though I do disagree.

See, they're not usually all that long, the books, especially the first couple, so I reckon they're worth reading in the order they were published. Some of the story arcs really need to be read chronologically anyway:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discworld#Reading_orders

I think the characters develop better (for instance, DEATH makes an appearance in the earlier of the books, and then later on becomes the protagonist in others). For me, watching characters be "supporting" earlier on, to become "main" later, is part of the pleasure. So, yes, I'd start with "book 1". You can see the order here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discworld#Novels

In the end, as well, you get to see how Terry himself has developed as a writer (I don't mean that condescendingly - his books have generally just become...deeper, as they go).

If you get into them, well, DEATH is great, but just wait until you get into the stories about his "daughter". She's wonderful. And then, for evil, just wait until you meet the Auditors, and the Elves, and...

Cheers,
Marc (talking himself into rereading them)

When you go in timeline order with Star Trek, you star with Enterprise books.

Broken Bow
By the Book
What Price Honor?
Surak’s Soul
Daedalus
Daedalus’s Children
Age of the Empress (Mirror Universe 1 Glass Empires)
The Good That Men Do

Now you move away from Enterprise into other stuff.

Starfleet: Year One

Now we go onto some TOS.

Vulcan’s Glory
Enterprise : The First Adventure
Mere Anarchy #1: Things Fall Apart (TOS eBook)
My Brother’s Keeper: Republic
My Brother’s Keeper: Constitution
My Brother’s Keeper: Enterprise

And now we move onto Vanguard.

Harbinger
Summon the Thunder

All of the listed books are in timeline order.

I second Ray Bradbury, Ursula LeGuin and Frank Herbert - The Martian Chronicles is a positively brilliant collection of soft science fiction short stories, and LeGuin's books - The Dispossessed or Left Hand of Darkness, to begin with - are remarkable, thought-provoking works. Dune, is to me, the greatest soft science fiction novel ever.

I loved Orson Scott Card's Enders Game and Speaker for the Dead.

I would also recommend Man in a High Castle by Philip K. Dick, which is a fascinating novel in which Japan and Germany won WWII, and Japan now occupies California. And although there are some frankly misogynistic elements to his work, A. E. Van Vogt is a criminally underrated soft science fiction author. I recommend the Silkie and his Null-A novels, particularly The World of Null-A.

Dan Simmons' first 2 Hyperion novels (Hyperion and The Fall of Hyperion) are ridiculously good soft science fiction - a retelling of the Canterbury tales set in the distant future.

In addition, because the technical jargon was pretty much made up at the time he wrote it (even though it now has a lot of currency), I consider Neuromancer by William Gibson to be outstanding soft science fiction.

Let me also recommend a few more obscure titles:

The terribly overlooked Elizabeth Hand novel Winterlong is another favorite soft science fiction book - it's a beautiful and eerie, goth-y post-apocalyptic novel set in Washington D.C. I also loved Rumors of Spring by Richard Grant - a sort of environmentalist future fairy tale.

I should also add that my wife is actually a much bigger science fiction fan than I am - she is particularly fond of Golden Age sci-fi, and recommends the Foundation series, Arthur C. Clark's Rama books and Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars series (which seems hard from the outside but is really more political and social commentary).

There's more that we're forgetting which I'll be kicking myself about later, but these are the ones that come to mind tonight.

When you go in timeline order with Star Trek, you star with Enterprise books...

Jon, are these really the only Trek books you consider soft SF, and worth reading? There must be others...

Mmm... I'd say "Final Reflection" counts as soft SF. Klingon meets pacifist. The technical details are just there as window dressing.