We all love lists, don't we. Look at the different thread titles right here or visit the web for a plethora of lists - we find validation in the form of lists.

Ok, so let's have YOUR list for the 10 Worst Books.

Also, it might be fun to "validate" your reasoning with a quick sentence or two. After all, as my drill sergeant once said, "Opinions are like a....h...s, everyone has one.":)

Well?


Don

Whatever the 10 latest books Oprah has recommended.

i'm not good at lists. the second i'm asked to list anything (including : "name 2 articles of clothing you are currently wearing, you are allowed to look down") my mind instantly becomes a void so complete it's the next best thing to anti-matter.

but i'll comment on other people's lists, if i've read anything on them.

Whatever the 10 latest books Oprah has recommended.

I'm glad you used the word "latest." I remember when Jonathan Franzen's current novel won either the National Book Award or the Pulitzer Prize, (sorry, can't remember which one) and there was a flurry of negative activity from both sides.

Don

1. The Da Vinci Code (Dan Brown)

This book is to writing what a McValue Meal is to cuisine (mmm, caramel sundae...arrrgglll)

2. Atlas Shrugged (Ayn Rand)

Will John Galt please shut the hell up before I put a bullet in my head.

3. The First Man in Rome (Colleen McCullough)

I'm sorry, I'm leaving - will the last man in Rome please turn out the lights.

4. The Sparrow/Children of God (Mary Doria Russell)

I love God. I hate God. I love God again. (Yeah, but he still hates you like he hates gays and atheists, you whiny pillock with the freaky hands)

5. Anything by Piers Anthony

Seriously, when mummy told you to stop fantasizing or hair would grow on your palms, she didn't mean for you to write it all down instead.

6. Battlefield Earth (Lunatic Ron Hubbard)

If I have to explain this inclusion to you, I'm going to track you down and kill you for being too stupid to live, because it'll be easier (and the authorities'll let me go free when I tell them why I did it)

7. The Sea, The Sea (Iris Murdoch)

Yeah, that's right, I've got an Iris Murdoch book on my list. You wanna fight about it? This book is empty of anything likable. Think "dull dull dull" and "soap opera with longer words" and you'll just about have it. "Literature", my arse! This is pretentious claptrap hiding nothing but unlikable, ever-shallow characters and empty meaning.

8. The Wheel of Time (Robert Jordon, mostly)

Ahh, the wheel of time is circular and neverending. No, seriously, it is.

9. A Game of Thrones (George R. R. Martin)

A game like Monotony...I mean, Monopoly. Do not pass Go.

10. Anything Cthulhu Mythos (by H.P. Lovecraft)

Insanity, doom, dread, horror...bollocks! I've done scarier craps.


There you go, in no particular order. They're probably not the worst I've read, but they came to the forefront of my mind the quickest.

Cheers,
Marc (I'm so going to get it from Cthulhu)

Harry Potter - 1,2,3,4,5,6,,,,,

4. The Sparrow/Children of God (Mary Doria Russell)

I love God. I hate God. I love God again. (Yeah, but he still hates you like he hates gays and atheists, you whiny pillock with the freaky hands)

I must reread your earlier posts, Marc. I thought you were (almost) recommending this. No? And God (or god, thank you) can hate me all it wants. What do I care?

5. Anything by Piers Anthony

Seriously, when mummy told you to stop fantasizing or hair would grow on your palms, she didn't mean for you to write it all down instead.


:rofl:
Marc, at some point you will need to start signing your real name so lines like this can be properly attributed.

1. The Da Vinci Code (Dan Brown)

This book is to writing what a McValue Meal is to cuisine (mmm, caramel sundae...arrrgglll)
heh... my grandmother read this book. when i asked her what she thought of it, she said, "... it reminded me why i hate the catholic church." i decided to give it a pass.

6. Battlefield Earth (Lunatic Ron Hubbard)
oh ? really ? you're not convinced by the whole "Alien Overlord as Origin of the Species" theory ? what about it seems to be a problem ?

10. Anything Cthulhu Mythos (by H.P. Lovecraft)

Insanity, doom, dread, horror...bollocks! I've done scarier craps.

(...)

Cheers,
Marc (I'm so going to get it from Cthulhu)

yeah you are...

2. Atlas Shrugged (Ayn Rand)
Will John Galt please shut the hell up before I put a bullet in my head.

8. The Wheel of Time (Robert Jordon, mostly)
A game like Monotony...I mean, Monopoly. Do not pass Go.

10. Anything Cthulhu Mythos (by H.P. Lovecraft)
Insanity, doom, dread, horror...bollocks! I've done scarier craps.




I love your comments, absolutely funny!!1:rofl:

I still read Lovecraft, buy my God he's unintentionally funny, sometimes. (Call it a love/funny relationship:).)

I love the story of the guy desperate to escape the drooling horror, but feels COMPELLED to stay seated in front of his typewriter and TELL us about it, until he's finally consumed!.:rofl:

When I was pimply-teenager I ate this stuff up. Now that I'm older and wrinkled like a prune, I STILL EAT THIS STUFF UP!! The difference now is that I can shudder AND laugh at the same time.

Thanks for your great comments.:rofl:

Don

Note: I think Cthulhu has us both now!!

Harry Potter - 1,2,3,4,5,6,,,,,
I guess you disagree with the millions of readers around the world who love the books. This isn't the place for a Harry Potter commentary (there's probably already a thread) but I disagree. Even if you don't like Harry Potter, I really don't think you can put one of the best selling books in all of history on the bottom of the totem pole.

I guess you disagree with the millions of readers around the world who love the books. This isn't the place for a Harry Potter commentary (there's probably already a thread) but I disagree. Even if you don't like Harry Potter, I really don't think you can put one of the best selling books in all of history on the bottom of the totem pole.

I thought 1 was fun and I was very pleased for all the kids (young and otherwise) who ate these up. But I was sorry I spent the time to read 2 and I doubt I'll be reading any more of them. Too much frosting for me. Perhaps the later books are meatier but I'm unwilling to invest the time to find out.

I LIKE "Battlefield Earth". It's too long, but it's a great story. Let's not forget - Hubbard may have had some odd ideas, religiously-speaking, but he was also a damned good SF writer.

The worst book I ever encountered (by a long way) was 'Morwyn: or The Vengeance of God' by John Cowper Powys.
It was complete tripe.

Marc: I understand that John Galt's check for one (1) bullet is in the mail to you.

Worst book? There are so many to choose from my mind is spinning. Surely L. Ron's would be there (since he keeps writing new ones long after his "death" he may command all ten positions.) Also there should be any politician's self-penned (with the help of many ghost writers -- although that takes on new meaning with the Clintons) works.

Harry potter has to be on the list. The books read like a plot for a computer game.
The Dumb Vinci Code. When I found myself rooting for the big white guy I chucked it in.
At least one Hemingway. Just cannot decide which one.
Seven Habits of highly effective people. To represent this genre you understand
The Lopsang Rampa series. Talk about misrepresenting a belief system
Clive Cussler. Anyone of them and all of them.
Shout At the Devil Wilbur Smith You need to be South African to truly hate this properly I believe
Rose Madder Steven King
Romeo and Juliet. Do plays count? I like Shakespeare but hated this one.
In Black and White Jake White The South African world cup winning rugby couch

I like Battlefield Earth, myself -- the book, not the movie which bore only fraudulent resemblance to it.

However, a think all eleven of Hubbard's "Mission Earth" series ought to be among the worst books ever written. If you can make it through the whole thing, you're clearly one extremely sick puppy ... and not in a good way. :no:

I only made it through the first two, and that was because of a school assignment, if I'd realized what toxic waste it was early enough I'd've probably chosen a different author to write that paper on. Truly ghastly stuff.

Will Self - Great Apes

/thread :)

i read the first half and all it was about was chimpanzees haveing sex, over and over and over... the man has issues.

never finished the thing.

Amazon Search, keywords: Dune Brian Herbert. (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Dune+Brian+Herbert&x=0&y=0)

I can't believe it hasn't been mentioned, but you see them in airport spinners all over the US. My #1 "must avoid" is Guy Smith's "Killer Crabs" series.

Dan Brown comes in at #2, only barely ahead of John Norman.

If you need titles:

1. Night of the Crabs
2. The Da Vinci code
3. anything with the word "Gor" in the title.

Harry potter has to be on the list. The books read like a plot for a computer game.
The Dumb Vinci Code. When I found myself rooting for the big white guy I chucked it in.
At least one Hemingway. Just cannot decide which one.
Seven Habits of highly effective people. To represent this genre you understand
The Lopsang Rampa series. Talk about misrepresenting a belief system
Clive Cussler. Anyone of them and all of them.
Shout At the Devil Wilbur Smith You need to be South African to truly hate this properly I believe
Rose Madder Steven King
Romeo and Juliet. Do plays count? I like Shakespeare but hated this one.
In Black and White Jake White The South African world cup winning rugby couch


Interesting comments...

I taught Stephen King's Rose Madder at Miami University when I was working on my doctorate in English Literature. I used the book as an example of spousal abuse, a novel to get us thinking crtically about negative issues within our society.

The kids (well, teens and early 20s) were actually distracted by the weird aspects of the novel, commenting upon how the weird in this novel diminised its cumulative power. Although I agreed with them, my opinion was not the issue here.

I feel most students think of King as a "horror" writer, and he certainly is that, but he is so much more than that. In fact, the definition of horror can have a very broad definition, indeed.

King is fascinated by genre, I feel, and wishes to explore all aspects of literature.

I think, if any discerning reader wanted to, one could deconstruct King's laundry list and come up with a whole framework for critical discourse!:)

Don

I still think The DaVinci code is the most terrible book I have ever read.

I still think The DaVinci code is the most terrible book I have ever read.

I was terribly impressed with how Brown was able to create a series of opening chapters, none more than about four pages long, and each with a cliff-hanger ending. It was a real page-turner for me until by about a third of the way in at which point the pain reading all the junk made it hard from there on. But as a mystery or thriller or whatever it is, I'm impressed with the guy's talent and could easily imagine why people liked it so much. But then, I never read things like this normally so really don't know what the standard of excellence is for the genre.

I don't care for the Harry Potter books either. I read the 1st two books and lost interest, but attribute it to the fact that I'm not a child...since the books are written more for children.

I really don't care for John Grisham books, they are so predictable and the plots are so worn out to me. But then most best sellers nowadays are not worth much from a literary standpoint, but appeal to the masses as fast, cheap entertainment - much like the pablum that is on much of television.

I still think The DaVinci code is the most terrible book I have ever read.

Yep, the guy gets all 10 of my votes. :toilet: "Everybody was reading it" was the only reason I stuck it out to the end -- it's the poster child for really-bad-writing.

(I do have to say though, that I thought the movie was faintly enjoyable.)

1. The Da Vinci Code (Dan Brown)

2. Atlas Shrugged (Ayn Rand)

3. The First Man in Rome (Colleen McCullough)

4. The Sparrow/Children of God (Mary Doria Russell)

5. Anything by Piers Anthony

6. Battlefield Earth (Lunatic Ron Hubbard)

7. The Sea, The Sea (Iris Murdoch)

8. The Wheel of Time (Robert Jordon, mostly)

9. A Game of Thrones (George R. R. Martin)

10. Anything Cthulhu Mythos (by H.P. Lovecraft)

There you go, in no particular order. They're probably not the worst I've read, but they came to the forefront of my mind the quickest.

Cheers,
Marc (I'm so going to get it from Cthulhu)
#1 -Cannot say. Never read it.
#2 - I agree
#3 - Cannot say. Never read it.
#4 - Cannot say. Never read it.
#5 - Some are not all that wonderful and some I really enjoyed. So overall, I cannot agree.
#6 - Should be the #1 worst book. It was a good idea that was horribly executed.
#7 - Cannot say. Never read it.
#8 - I've read up to #9 and I did enjoy it. But life got int he way and I never did get to #10. So I disagree.
#9 - I really enjoyed that. But disagreement there.
#10 - Have yet to read that so I cannot comment just yet.

One that almost took a tear from me... of anger that is, "Rendezvous with Rama" from Arthur C Clarke. The first tome starts well and ends after mostly nothing happens but enough to lure you into a second book, angering you further still. What a waste of time. Two smileys out of ten. :):):angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

The other nine are in an other language that does not interest most of you and I won't go there.

No one has mentioned Jeffrey Archer yet, so I will.

And Raymond Khoury's 'The Last Templar' is truly appalling. The characterisation is wooden, the plot is obvious, the prose is leaden, and it reads like a debased Dan Brown.

No one has mentioned Jeffrey Archer yet, so I will.


I thought Not a Penny More, Not a Penny Less was fun to read at least.

Life is much too short to read bad books. When I find myself stuck in a horribly written/poorly plotted/boring book, I back out immediately and put it up as a lesson learned. And I never visit the offending monstrosity again.

As such, I don't really remember what these books are.

But I would have to disagree with Harry Potter books 1-4 being on a list like this. I rather enjoyed them.. but after that they just became whiny and irritating.

And I rather enjoyed Piers Anthony's Battle Circle.

#1 -Cannot say. Never read it.
#2 - I agree
#3 - Cannot say. Never read it.
#4 - Cannot say. Never read it.
#5 - Some are not all that wonderful and some I really enjoyed. So overall, I cannot agree.
#6 - Should be the #1 worst book. It was a good idea that was horribly executed.
#7 - Cannot say. Never read it.
#8 - I've read up to #9 and I did enjoy it. But life got int he way and I never did get to #10. So I disagree.
#9 - I really enjoyed that. But disagreement there.
#10 - Have yet to read that so I cannot comment just yet.

Ahh, Jon, that's precisely the kind of response I'd hoped for, and I suspect Dr. Drib had in mind too - personal disagreement rather than "You're wrong because that author has sold gajillions of books". I cannot argue, though I can disagree. As you also imply, it's a personal view of the worst books, and it's always enjoyable to read everyone's especially when they go against the grain (like Planet Head's/Taylor514ce's "Dune" Amazon search - his circuits must be crazy! ;) ).

I would like to see your top 10 though (note that I say "in no particular order", so I agree with your comments about my number 6 ;) ). Try be brief (that's a joke, right. See, you're always brief and...I'll just shut up now)

Cheers,
Marc

So many bad books....So little napalm....<sigh>

If you want to try Hubard's S/F at it's best, read Final Blackout. It was highly acclaimed in the S/F community at the time of publication, 60+ years ago. Still a good (albeit dark) yarn. (and only 60,00 words!)

Personally, I'd throw Kate Wilhelm's When Late The Sweet Birds Sang on the pyre...

One that almost took a tear from me... of anger that is, "Rendezvous with Rama" from Arthur C Clarke. The first tome starts well and ends after mostly nothing happens but enough to lure you into a second book, angering you further still. What a waste of time. Two smileys out of ten. :):):angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

The other nine are in an other language that does not interest most of you and I won't go there.

Complety agree, all the back story just anayed me. the exploration parst of the books were pretty good but then there would be four chapters about

::spoiler::
whats her names youth and her relationship with the king, father, her dauther or the boy who cleaned her table at lunch one day in the summer of bla bla.

Rendezvous with Rama is still one of my favorite books though

I like Battlefield Earth, myself -- the book, not the movie which bore only fraudulent resemblance to it.

Me too. I liked the book but not the movie. I remember my friend in Israel told me once(about the movie): our best guys spend 3 years in Air Force to learn to fly F-16 and these apes who could not read learned it in a few weeks/months? :eek:

I also really liked The Da Vinci Code :p

Anyway, here is my list:

1. Any Russian classics (Pushkin, Lermontov, Dostoevsky, L.Tolstoy, Sholohov, Gogol, Maksim Gorky, Anton Pavlovich Chekhov).....argh....

2. Thomas Covenant Series by Stephen Donaldson

3. American Gods by Neil Gaiman

4. The Earthsea by Ursula Le Guine

5. The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe

6. The Redemption of Althalus by David Eddings and Leigh Eddings

7. The Unbearable Lightness of Being by Milan Kundera

8. The Soddit by Adam Roberts

9. The Wind-up Bird Chronicles by Haruki Murakami

However, a think all eleven of Hubbard's "Mission Earth" series ought to be among the worst books ever written. If you can make it through the whole thing, you're clearly one extremely sick puppy ... and not in a good way. :no:

I only made it through the first two, and that was because of a school assignment, if I'd realized what toxic waste it was early enough I'd've probably chosen a different author to write that paper on. Truly ghastly stuff.

I'm pretty sure that Hubbard did not write those, even though they have his name of the cover. He was a good - perhaps even great - SF author. I can't see him turning out crap like that.

No one has mentioned Jeffrey Archer yet, so I will.


I can't stand the noble Lord Archer as a person, but I do actually think that he's a good author. I've read many of his books and enjoyed them all.

6. The Redemption of Althalus by David Eddings and Leigh Eddings


Arrrrgggghhhh! One of the greatest books ever written. How can you possibly say that! My favourite book by one of my favourite authors. He and Charles Dickens are truly the "masters" of English literature!

Arrrrgggghhhh! One of the greatest books ever written. How can you possibly say that! My favourite book by one of my favourite authors. He and Charles Dickens are truly the "masters" of English literature!

Is not he American? :rolleyes:
:p

I still think The DaVinci code is the most terrible book I have ever read.

I don't think it's the worst book, but I would agree it's one of the most overrated !!

How can we be at page three in this list without having mentioned Norman Mailer? I once tried to read Ancient Evenings a big unbearable lump of a book set in Ancient Egypt. It infuriated me so much I ended up throwing the book at the wall - and dislodged a sizeable chunk of plaster as a result.

10. Anything Cthulhu Mythos (by H.P. Lovecraft)

Insanity, doom, dread, horror...bollocks! I've done scarier craps.


yes.youve surely done worse things then crushing a newborns head against a stone.

Sorry,but that just shows your lack of knowledge/inteligence.If you don't like it,fine,but im afraid you haven't the right to say its "the worst".Actualy,the wery idea of this thread is biased and will lead only into conflict,cause someone, who has barely even read something will go on bloody hell for being it "such crap".

Mr. whatever your name is,Dunsany,Chambers,Howard,Smith,Merritt-writers who (except of Chambers) all acknowledged Lovecraft.Writers of "modern" horor,like Gaiman,Barker or even King say what a master he is.So if EVERY single authority on horror says it IS good,youre qualified to judge-what?How many sucesfull world spaning books/stories have you writen till today?

(sorry for the angry tone,but this is just a syndrom of "tardness",like I had the misfortune of meeting at NF-people saying "Ive never read it,but its sh*t")

A bad book, for me, is one I can't bring myself to continue reading.
It's similar to my taste in movies, I am quite easy to please, yet I believe in myself being able to differentiate between really good, okay, bad, and horrible.

So, the most horrible books I read since I got started with ebooks (about 5 years ago) were

War Of The Worlds - H.G. Wells (tedious)
Desert Heat (Joanna Brady Series) - J.A. Jance (totally not interesting to read about this Ms. Brady)
Something Venice (the first one) - Donna Leon (the first chapter pretty much sealed it for me)
The Perfume - Patrick Süsskind (started out good, then it became tediuous)
The Picture of Dorian Gray - Oscar Wilde (I tried. I really tried. But I had to give up)
Lambs Hide, Tigers Seek - Steve Jordan (Just kidding ;) I loved it!!)

And before I get my head crushed against a stone by Mr. Lobolover I'd like to add:
Those are my worst books I've ever read. Except #6, of course!

I think that this all shows how reading and literary taste is subjective.
Some people really like a plot-driven story and dislike long descriptions (so they won't like Proust). Others prefer the opposite (so probably won't like Dan Brown or Jeffrey Archer).

And I think that it's also possible to dislike a book and to agree that it's good by other people's standards. I've never been able to get along with Gabriel Garcia Marquez, though I concede that many other people think that he is a good writer. Doubtless it is my loss.

I realy think this should be closed.it'l just bring people to bicker.

I think that this all shows how reading and literary taste is subjective.
Some people really like a plot-driven story and dislike long descriptions (so they won't like Proust). Others prefer the opposite (so probably won't like Dan Brown or Jeffrey Archer).


I entirely agree. Look at Asimov's "Foundation" trilogy, for example. It's regarded as one of the all-time classics of SF, but despite that, many people who would consider themselves to be SF fans don't like it because it has almost no "action" in it - virtually the whole of the three books consists of conversations between people. All the "action" happens invisibly in the background.

I really don't think you can put one of the best selling books in all of history on the bottom of the totem pole.

Very easily .....

I can stomach the films no problem , but the style of writing -------

youre talking about the "Da Vinci Code" now ?

I realy think this should be closed.it'l just bring people to bicker.

Then please, don't.

We say here what we dislike. Have a bit of respect to other people' opinions. If you cannot restrain yourself from bickering then just ignore the topic :shrug:

I entirely agree. Look at Asimov's "Foundation" trilogy, for example. It's regarded as one of the all-time classics of SF, but despite that, many people who would consider themselves to be SF fans don't like it because it has almost no "action" in it - virtually the whole of the three books consists of conversations between people. All the "action" happens invisibly in the background.

But things happen so I would say there is action in the book.

I've really enjoyed several Russian authors (Dostoevsky, Gogol, Tolstoy). Lots of action in a book is not a requirement for me - it's usually a distraction from the real activity.

Anyone read Thomas Hardy's Far From the Madding Crowd? I wish I had been. Dreadful. But it was a long time ago and in the right mood maybe I'd change my mind. It's malleable.

Aside: An impressive 50 posts so far in less than 24 hrs. If there was a "The 10 Best Books" thread, I'm guessing it was not this active.

Anyone read Thomas Hardy's Far From the Madding Crowd? I wish I had been. Dreadful. But it was a long time ago and in the right mood maybe I'd change my mind. It's malleable.

I've read and I enjoyed it :); I didn't think it was as good as 'Tess of the d'Urbervilles' though, which is still my favourite Hardy novel.

yes.youve surely done worse things then crushing a newborns head against a stone.

Sorry,but that just shows your lack of knowledge/inteligence.If you don't like it,fine,but im afraid you haven't the right to say its "the worst".Actualy,the wery idea of this thread is biased and will lead only into conflict,cause someone, who has barely even read something will go on bloody hell for being it "such crap".

Mr. whatever your name is,Dunsany,Chambers,Howard,Smith,Merritt-writers who (except of Chambers) all acknowledged Lovecraft.Writers of "modern" horor,like Gaiman,Barker or even King say what a master he is.So if EVERY single authority on horror says it IS good,youre qualified to judge-what?How many sucesfull world spaning books/stories have you writen till today?

(sorry for the angry tone,but this is just a syndrom of "tardness",like I had the misfortune of meeting at NF-people saying "Ive never read it,but its sh*t")

When a person dislikes a book, it does not show a lack of intelligence. There may be other mitigating factors involved, such as lack of critical thinking skills. For example, when I was teaching English Literature I [One] at Miami University, I told my students that it's ok to like or to not like a piece of writing, but you must examine why or what it is that makes you think this way. It's not enough [I would tell them] to say "I hate this" or "I like that." They were to explain the reasoning behind the expression.

This thread is not biased, but rather subjective in the opinions that one expresses on his or her dislike for a particular author or book. Any dialogue that examines why we like/dislike a work is a useful tool for discussion and critical thinking. Keneth Burke, a language theorist and rhetorician, talks about Terministic Screens and how these barriers that we all have - including me - can often result in misunderstandings and sometimes a closing-down of dialogue at a crucial point when dialogue is most necessary for a better understanding of issues. [I must add that Terminisitc Screens also refers to how societal and class distinctions, in addition to education, all play a part in how we percieve and then (re)translate another person's information into the realm of our own understanding.]

Sometimes, as I mentioned, we close our minds too soon to other opinions. When this happens, we may be unable to understand why an individual responds to a particular book the way he or she does.

Your tone is one of anger - as you admit - but I'm at a loss to understand fully where your anger comes from. I do understand your "discomfort" when someone makes a summary judgement while NOT having read the book in question, especially if it's an author you admire. This is irritating; however, you might ask that person WHY he or she has that opinion, thus opening up a discussion. At the very least, you're able to explain to this person why you like the author's work.

Also, I must disagree with you that a successful author's opinion on another writer's work is somehow a barometer for what is "good" in our society - whether that successful author be a bestselling author or even a hugely popular author.

It is with respect to your opinions that I have structured my response to you. I feel it's ok to disagree on issues, Lobolover, but to engage in critical thinking on WHY people disagree is really the important issue of this thread.:)

Also, we're having fun here!!:)



Don

Anything by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman belong up near the top.

L. Ron Hubbard is an odd case: I personally don't primarily consider him a science fiction writer but rather a pulp writer. As pure SF his books lie near the middle of the pack, but as pulp they are very good.

As to this thread, I think it may have been mis-titled. It probably should have been books people hate rather than the worst. It's perfectly reasonable (though perhaps incomprehensible) for people to hate Lovecraft, but his works were powerfully influential and acclaimed within the genre. That puts his work much more in line with being disliked than being bad.

Anyway, there's my two cents-- take them for what they're not worth.

When a person dislikes a book, it does not show a lack of intelligence. There may be other mitigating factors involved, such as lack of critical thinking skills. For example, when I was teaching English Literature I [One] at Miami University, I told my students that it's ok to like or to not like a piece of writing, but you must examine why or what it is that makes you think this way. It's not enough [I would tell them] to say "I hate this" or "I like that." They were to explain the reasoning behind the expression.

Don

I have heard it before.
I just cannot remember when and where...give me a moment.




Ah. Yes. My wife.


She used to be an interior designer many years ago. She could not stand some of her clients. They would order something, then after perhapr 4-6 months of hard work she would present the project to them. Some of them would look at it and say: I don't like it. That's it.
She explained to me: I would not mind if they disliked the project but explained what in particular they didn't like. An answer I like/dislike really drives her nuts.

Looks like people are the same all over the world because my example originates from Minsk, Belorus :)

Unfortumatelly, lack of critical thinking skills is one of the main reasons. I believe I belong to this group and I know many people who have the same problem.

yes.youve surely done worse things then crushing a newborns head against a stone.

Really? Baby...head...stone? Is that it? Not exactly toe-curling in this context, is it? Nice opening though, I'm sure (if only it made any sense).

Sorry,but that just shows your lack of knowledge/inteligence.Ahh, sweetie, rather than rushing in with your odd grammar to berate my intelligence, why don't you take more than knee-jerk reaction to actually look through the thread. You might have noted my suggestion that I believe "it's a personal view of the worst books" that was intended, rather than stupidly declared a count on my knowledge or IQ. To suggest that someone is somehow an idiot for not appreciating literature that you do appreciate shows that you're demonstrating a rather shallow tolerance for other people's views.

If you don't like it,fine,but im afraid you haven't the right to say its "the worst".I have every right to say it's "the worst". All of it that I have read (and I have read far more than you so oh-so-dramatically assume) was some of the worst fiction I have read, anytime. Someone here found partial redemption in inadvertent humour, but not even that could compensate for the dullness of H.P.Lovecraft for me. For me it is of the worst.

ctualy,the wery idea of this thread is biasedWell, of course it is biased (by which I assume you mean "subjective"). We have been asked our subjective opinions of the worst books we have read. Of course people are going to have different "worsts". Of course people are going to disagree. Which leads to...

and will lead only into conflict,cause someone, who has barely even read something will go on bloody hell for being it "such crap".The difference is, almost no-one here has stated their disagreement with the seriously angry vitriol of the "You are stupid" kind, which is what you have done. If that's how you regularly comport yourself, no wonder you blame the thread for causing "conflict". I suggest you keep out of them, because you're always going to find "conflict", and getting angry and telling someone they're unintelligent reflects more on yourself than them.

Mr. whatever your name isMy name is "Marc". It's on the bottom of all my posts. It's on the bottom of the post you replied to. You know what it is.The dismissive "Whatever your name is" as an attempted insult is just silly.

Dunsany,Chambers,Howard,Smith,Merritt-writers who (except of Chambers) all acknowledged Lovecraft.Writers of "modern" horor,like Gaiman,Barker or even King say what a master he is.Which is great. Iris Murdoch is almost universally praised for her philosophy and novels, and rightly so, by people far more knowledgeable and intelligent than myself (and, I daresay, you). Nevertheless The Sea The Sea was tripe to me. Most people here, with rationality rather than angry insult at their side, understand that my opinions might be in contrast to those more learned, and will pick the "winning side". It won't change my opinion though, and that book, and H.P.Lovecraft, will remain on my list unless I read something more execrable in future.

So if EVERY single authority on horror says it IS good,youre qualified to judge-what?How many sucesfull world spaning books/stories have you writen till today?I am qualified to judge the books I have read as being good and bad, yes. Whether my opinion reflects those of other people is neither here nor there in that judgement, any more than people can tell me how brilliant Tom Waits is - I still can't listen to the miserable bugger. Dr. Dribs, the initial beginner of this thread, asked for your list of the "10 Worst Books" you have read. I gave mine, in full understanding it was "one man's opinion". I rightly didn't expect serious personal attack and insult (though I fully expected disagreement), and, as expected, I got disagreement (and acknowledged it), and, as expected, didn't get serious personal attack and insult...

...except from you.

(sorry for the angry tone,but this is just a syndrom of "tardness",like I had the misfortune of meeting at NF-people saying "Ive never read it,but its sh*t")See, sweetie, this is where you fall on your face. Almost every book on my list (obviously I haven't read every Piers Anthony book, nor every H.P.Lovecraft story - when I hit my thumb with a hammer, I stop hammering) I have read, front to back. You finish here, (is that meant to be "tardiness"?) insulting my intelligence by broadbrushing me with the premise that I haven't read what I've judged.

You are just wrong.

I realy think this should be closed.it'l just bring people to bicker.Really? You disagree with someone's opinion; close the thread. Is that how you think it should go on the forum? It brought you here to "bicker" and insult - it bought others here to disagree and discuss. The problem is with you and not the thread.

So, here's the dealy, mate. Have you ever heard the phrase "Everything was going just fine until you came in"? Well, there you are.

You seriously insult my intelligence. You accuse me of not having read what I've put forth an opinion of. You dismiss any of my opinions, not with your own, but with the elitist catchall of "smarter people than you...". I don't expect you to agree. I don't mind if you strongly disagree. I don't mind if you vehemently disagree.

However, don't let the sum total of your rejection be your half-arsed, barely readable spray of anti-grammatical, ad hominem slur and inaccuracy. Them's fightin' words, and I might not be as intelligent as "Every single authority on horror", but as sure as hell is as black as my heart I am good at fighting words, and in your corner you don't look like you're up for a single round against some bloodthirsty, cheating, biting, screaming, suckerpunching, brassknuckle verbiage.

See, you're flailing-angry. As at this time, I am "restrained".

Yours most sincerely,
Marc (this is my name - if you choose to use "Mr." then the surname is "Lawrence", but my first name has always been here to use rather than pejoratively dismiss)

Lobolover:

Here's a peace-offering:

I assembled The Were-Wolf for you, the story you said you enjoyed. It's fully illustrated and is available in the Sony upload section.

Enjoy!


Don

Gentlemen,
There's a Latin proverb:

De gustibus non disputandum.

('There's no disputing matters of taste')

If I like apples and you like oranges then we are not disagreeing. We just like different things.

Lobolover likes Lovecraft. I like Proust. It's the same sort of thing. We are expressing different preferences. We can explain our different preferences (--maybe I like long descriptions of soirees at duchesses' houses) but, fundamentally, there's no disagreement

This is because we all make value-judgements about books, fruit, pies etc. These are expressions of opinion, not fact. Personally, I'm quite happy to live in a diverse world where people have different tastes. It means that there's always the possibility of trying something new and, maybe, liking it.

Very easily .....

I can stomach the films no problem , but the style of writing -------

Interesting, I rather enjoy her writing style. It's fast paced, witty, and detailed. Plus, and this is what I like the most, it's almost entirely from Harry's perspective. I've read books by other authors where the perspective changes every paragraph. Dan Brown is notorious for this and his inability to stay inside one character for more than a single chapter is a major reason why I can't stand his books. Call me a chickenhead, but it was so confusing to read The DaVinci Code, half the time I was saying, "wait, how can SHE say that? Oh ok, now it's HE that's talking...and talking...and talking..."

J.K. Rowling's books use all of the great hooks of a good mystery. She's a fan of the best literature (classic and modern) and their influence is on her is visible, though not overpowering.

It may be a matter of taste, but I really think that in years to come people will go back and read the books after all of the hype has died down and they'll find some hidden jewels.

When a person dislikes a book, it does not show a lack of intelligence. There may be other mitigating factors involved, such as lack of critical thinking skills. For example, when I was teaching English Literature I [One] at Miami University, I told my students that it's ok to like or to not like a piece of writing, but you must examine why or what it is that makes you think this way. It's not enough [I would tell them] to say "I hate this" or "I like that." They were to explain the reasoning behind the expression.

This thread is not biased, but rather subjective in the opinions that one expresses on his or her dislike for a particular author or book. Any dialogue that examines why we like/dislike a work is a useful tool for discussion and critical thinking. Keneth Burke, a language theorist and rhetorician, talks about Terministic Screens and how these barriers that we all have - including me - can often result in misunderstandings and sometimes a closing-down of dialogue at a crucial point when dialogue is most necessary for a better understanding of issues. [I must add that Terminisitc Screens also refers to how societal and class distinctions, in addition to education, all play a part in how we percieve and then (re)translate another person's information into the realm of our own understanding.]

Sometimes, as I mentioned, we close our minds too soon to other opinions. When this happens, we may be unable to understand why an individual responds to a particular book the way he or she does.

Your tone is one of anger - as you admit - but I'm at a loss to understand fully where your anger comes from. I do understand your "discomfort" when someone makes a summary judgement while NOT having read the book in question, especially if it's an author you admire. This is irritating; however, you might ask that person WHY he or she has that opinion, thus opening up a discussion. At the very least, you're able to explain to this person why you like the author's work.

Also, I must disagree with you that a successful author's opinion on another writer's work is somehow a barometer for what is "good" in our society - whether that successful author be a bestselling author or even a hugely popular author.

It is with respect to your opinions that I have structured my response to you. I feel it's ok to disagree on issues, Lobolover, but to engage in critical thinking on WHY people disagree is really the important issue of this thread.:)

Also, we're having fun here!!:)



Don

its more that when someone drags something aclaimed by people who make a LIVING writing Horror,and a wery good living at that,in the mud,someone whose personal achievements in said field are not exactly world-shatering,then I say:HUH?

montsnmags -that was a few word description of a sacrifice scene,starting a ritual in Robert E. Howard's "The Black Stone".The wording there was better,but I wouldn't wanna look it up just now.

Patricia-yes.

Problem is,said person probably doesn't WAN'T to adapt to a mind frame of one of the most well-read authors of his time,the author of the first summary of literary horror in modern times,etc.Whatever,I don't want to argue,but saying that its the worst cause of the "writing down theese events" way of narration-which is about as absurd as the omnipresent,
omniscient,bodiless,impassible narrator of a great number of fiction,then-why?

but lets stop the bickering.

Okay, folks, deep breath time.

We're discussing our opinions of books, they are inherently subjective and largely matters of taste. While the opinions here haven't all been phrased in ways that make them clearly opinions, the whole thread makes it pretty clear that it was asking for opinions.

Whether something is well written or not doesn't really enter into it. I acknowledge that some of Dickens' work, for instance, is extraordinarily well written, but I really, really don't like it. :shrug: It didn't make my personal list of "worst" but only because there were other things I liked less.

The best way to end the 'bickering' is for each person to recognize that the opinions expressed here aren't really comments on the value of a given book, but rather are comments on the poster's view of it and to respect that each of us has a right to have their own view.

I very much agree that uniformed opinions are pretty valueless, and that those who stridently proclaim their ignorant opinions can be extremely frustrating, but let's work from the assumption that the opinions here aren't based purely on conceit. We have an astonishingly well educated and well read group of folks here -- what did that recent poll show? Something more than 40% of us either have graduate degrees or are in the process of getting them? (I ain't one of those) That's pretty impressive to me, and it also suggests that assuming that folks have based their opinion of various books on something is more likely than not to be a reasonable move. :shrug:



So anyway, now that I've banged the old "respect" drum a bit, let's go back to a discussion based on the assumption that we're not making actual value judgments of books, but rather expressing and discussing our reactions to and views of them. :nice:

You can't "test" a book to determine whether it's "good" or "bad", you can only express your opinion of it and that's what we're doing here. I don't know if that's a worthwhile exercise, since it's too easy to take potshots at what we don't like (it was W.H. Auden, I think, who said he didn't review books he didn't like for that very reason). I taught Russian language and literature at a university-level for 20 years: that does not make me an "authority", but simply a better-read judge (at least where Pushkin, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, etc... are concerned). And I do disagree with many of the opinions expressed here: Da Vinci, to me, was a very good thriller, the Harry Potter books (which I listened to, in recordings by Jim Dale) were delightful, L.Ron Hubbard absolutely unreadable in the way Tom Clancy and Ayn Rand are - use maximum verbiage for minimum content, a common ailment in SF books which is why I rarely read them.

The expression is "de gustibus non EST disputandum".

And congratulations to those of you who have responded to Lobolover: I can't, since I don't understand most of what he wrote, save that he is in strong disagreement.

Okay, folks, deep breath time.
CUT
I very much agree that uniformed opinions are pretty valueless, views of them. :nice:

Hey, NatCh:

I agree with you: This is a thread of opinions on why we dislike/like different books.

By the way, I NEVER, EVER wear my uniform when giving opinions!!:rofl:

Thanks, NatCh.

Don

The expression is "de gustibus non EST disputandum".


You are grammatically correct, but in Latin (and Greek) you are allowed to assume the verb 'to be' in many contexts.

As Wikipedia says:
'Bartlett's Familiar Quotations, without attribution, renders the phrase as de gustibus non disputandum; the verb "to be" is often assumed in Latin, and is rarely required.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_officio#E

(Sorry: I can't help being pedantic occasionally.)

You can't "test" a book to determine whether it's "good" or "bad" ....Oh, I don't know. You could get into an analysis (remember: the first half of "analysis" is "anal"!) of writing style, word usage, plot and character development, and such, but that requires a lot of work, and at some level even that will come down to some sort of subjective evaluation (this plot technique is better than that one, etc.). Matters of taste may be indisputable, but they're a lot easier to discuss, and they're probably more informative to discuss for the non-literary critic type. :shrug:

Just my opinion, of course. :nice:

(Sorry: I can't help being pedantic occasionally.)Occupational hazard, I'm sure (said one pedant to another). :wink:

Books I dislike:

I hated all of the Rama series by Arthur C. Clarke. I felt conned waiting for something to happen book after book.

Wheel of time books by Robert Jordan. I dislike all stretched out stories with too much filler in them (and was probably put off initially by Rama above).

Brave New World by Aldus Huxley. Couldn't get on with all those repetitive sentences.

Duma Key by Stephen King. Didn't care for the characters, and felt that the supernatural elements were unbelievable.

The majority of fantasy books particularly any book about dragons.

The Bible.

Anything published by Mills and Boon.

Any book suggested by my book-snob brother-in-law



"All the good stories have already been told, we're just retelling them the way we want to"

-- Stephen King

True, but the "analysis" you or I do is there to justify what is already our opinion. OTOH, analysis might help to change one's opinion. My point is that there is no objective test: it's not like taking two kinds of glue and determining that the bonding from one is "objectively" stronger that the bonding of the other. It all comes down to opinion, which is where discussion, what we are doing here, comes in.

And my apologies to Patricia: my phrasing came out wrong, it's just that that is an expression I use a lot (my wife looks for the nearest club when I use it or "that's what makes horse races").

I think our wives might get along well, radlyp. :D

Its all terribly simple really. If I think it, it is an objective position. If you think it, it is a mistaken subjective opinion. What is so complicated about that? ;)

I find this one hard to answer because if I don't like a book, I usually stop reading it pretty quickly. One book I thought was so bad that I intentionally tore it in half and threw in the garbage was Vampire Lestat by Anne Rice. That was after only fifty pages. Now there's a bad book!

I agree that Atlas Shrugged is pretty awful. That was the book that finally turned me off to Ayn Rand. I actually enjoyed The Fountainhead, in spite of its silliness.

Jim

One book I thought was so bad that I intentionally tore it in half and threw in the garbage was Vampire Lestat by Anne Rice. That was after only fifty pages. Now there's a bad book!


Jim

Now...now...now I think it is time and place for me to hit the roof!
(Interview with the Vampire, The Vampire Lestat and The Queen of the Damned are among my favorites!)

Heathens hide!

I agree that Atlas Shrugged is pretty awful. That was the book that finally turned me off to Ayn Rand. I actually enjoyed The Fountainhead, in spite of its silliness.


I did not finish Atlas Shrugged. It was bad fiction. I stopped just before John Galt's speech. The setup to the speech was just extremely badly written and not convincing. What I do not get is people thinking this book is good fiction literature.

:coffeebreak:Hi Everyone! These are my opinions, so please love me for my differences as well as my sames. Here goes:

1. The Davinci Code - It was taken too seriously by some confused people, because Dan Brown marketed it as "fact." However, kudos to Brown for managing to slap together a mega blockbuster with nothing more than lifting a plot from other authors and using travel guides as resource material.

2. Songs of Earth and Power - It is 2 books cobbled together into one with a badly matched seam. Both halves are boring, except for the horror parts, which are very funny.

3. Anything in the "for Dummies" series - Instead of being ashamed of being too dumb to read a manual or take a course, people in my office proudly display this series.

4. Battlefield Earth 1 & 2 - For all of the reasons stated by others, and also because it is the only set of books I ever read that made me angry twice: First for wasting so much time reading the first book, and then secondly, for making me angry again by fooling myself that surely the second book must be better. It wasn't. But at least I learned that it's OK not to finish a book.

5. The Two Towers (Lord of the Rings) - It is a very long segue from book 1 to book 3. Don't yell, I know 2 Towers is more character driven than event driven as in the other books, but I just seem to skim the whole book whenever I re-read the series.

6. A Fire Upon the Deep - Vernor Vinge's prequel to his masterpiece A Deepness in the Sky. Deepness was magical, but Fire was merely tedious.

7. Anything Jane Austen - Sorry, Dr D, but I'm a lit graduate and had these prissy, precocious books shoved down my throat again and again throughout college. Since then, anything that reeks of rural spinsters with good manners just sort of riles me up.

8. .........

I ran out of titles! I guess it's not so bad to have an extra-short list of books I dislike. It's a good thing. Oh crap, that reminds me....

8. Anything Martha Stewart writes. She is the anti-Christ's housekeeper.

I LIKE "Battlefield Earth". It's too long, but it's a great story. Let's not forget - Hubbard may have had some odd ideas, religiously-speaking, but he was also a damned good SF writer.

He was a good sf writer in the 30's and 40's
after that he lost the plot
Ole doc Metuselah
is a great story
but his later career stinks
:(:(:(:(

Worst books ever
John Norman
Gor

I did not finish Atlas Shrugged. It was bad fiction. I stopped just before John Galt's speech. The setup to the speech was just extremely badly written and not convincing. What I do not get is people thinking this book is good fiction literature.

When I read it, in my early 20s, I was just a pimple on a donkey's ass, without much common sense but a great thirst for knowledge.

The novel is really, I feel, a way for Rand to talk about her philosophy of Objectivism. As such, now that I've popped that particular pimple :), I'm able to see how preachy the book really is -- for ME.

Don

Interesting, I rather enjoy her writing style. It's fast paced, witty, and detailed. Plus, and this is what I like the most, it's almost entirely from Harry's perspective. I've read books by other authors where the perspective changes every paragraph. Dan Brown is notorious for this and his inability to stay inside one character for more than a single chapter is a major reason why I can't stand his books. Call me a chickenhead, but it was so confusing to read The DaVinci Code, half the time I was saying, "wait, how can SHE say that? Oh ok, now it's HE that's talking...and talking...and talking..."

J.K. Rowling's books use all of the great hooks of a good mystery. She's a fan of the best literature (classic and modern) and their influence is on her is visible, though not overpowering.

It may be a matter of taste, but I really think that in years to come people will go back and read the books after all of the hype has died down and they'll find some hidden jewels.

"chickenhead" ! ha !! i have to add that to my master list o' insults.

as for harry potter... i usually run in the opposite direction of anything that becomes a planet-wide phenomenon on principle alone, as this often seems to be a more certain garantee of mediocrity than quality. so i was completely uninterested in the harry potter books when every single one of my friends tried in turn to lend them to me (well... at least a solid majority of my friends).

then we had a record-breaking heat wave (this was about 4 or 5 years ago i think, i'm not very good with dates and chronology) and in paris it was too hot to *live* (for about 2 weeks it never dropped below 38°, including at 3 in the morning, and frequently was hotter). the slightest mental effort was out of the question. half way through, the daughter of a friend of mine lent me her harry potter books (i think there were 3 or 4 by then, i can't remember) and told me they would distract me from my overheated misery. to be honest i only accepted them to be polite, but i was agreeably surprised.

i think what i appreciated the most is the fact that rowling is quite clearly very intelligent and this comes through in her writing style, and also that she clearly loves language and litterature and makes innumerable and excellent subtle references, allusions, jokes and plays on words. but, i think this playfulness was lost through the series, and i was greatly disappointed by the last one, which seemed graceless and heavy as if she had written it rather mechanically while checking things she needed to mention off a list. it was so dramatically different than the beginning of the series that if i had not been reading a paper copy of it i would have really wondered if it were the real book, or a clumsily fan-written fake.

so, not on my list of worst books of all time, but i wouldn't go so far as to call them classics either. i suspect that a large part of my appreciation for them was purely contextual, since they were light and easy to read, escapist fiction at its best : just what i needed during that summer.

however, i've just remembered a book which caused me real suffering when i was forced to read it for school : "La Vie de Marianne" ("the Life of Marianne") by Marivaux. it drags on for a full lifetime, too ; hundreds and hundreds of pages, which feel like millions (and it was never completed ! i shudder to imagine what it could have been...). never has a fictional character made me want to inflict pain on them like stupid, simpering Marianne, who spent the duration crying out that it was all too much for her pure innocent heart and swooning, with her limp wrist flung (melo)dramatically across her forehead. seriously, the whole time i wanted to slap her silly and tell her to shut up and grow a pair (only in much, much stronger language).

i would like to point out here that Marivaux's style, exemplified in Marianne, was so completely, unprecedentedly affected and tortuous that it gave rise to a brand new verb, marivauder, and noun, marivaudage, which at the time of their coining (18th century) were quite pejorative, and rightly so.

also, "American Psycho" by Bret Easton Ellis (although this is mainly because i am a delicate flower and couldn't stomach the graphic descriptions of violence :rolleyes:). another book which was assigned for a class. caveat, i am judging this book without having read it through : i tried, honestly, but when i got to the description (not very far in...) of the knife to the cornea my stomach turned over so strongly that i decided life was much too short to inflict any more of that on myself and told my prof that i would be out ill (never was an excuse so apt) for the discussion of that book.

5. The Two Towers (Lord of the Rings) - It is a very long segue from book 1 to book 3. Don't yell, I know 2 Towers is more character driven than event driven as in the other books, but I just seem to skim the whole book whenever I re-read the series.

Really? That's very interesting because I think you're the first person I've met that felt that way. I slowly crawled through book 1, but when I hit book 2 it was all downhill from there for me and I think that sentiment is shared by most or all of the readers I've ever met. I find all these differences very interesting and can't help but wonder why I have the preferences I have that others don't.

3. Anything in the "for Dummies" series - Instead of being ashamed of being too dumb to read a manual or take a course, people in my office proudly display this series.
i saw a very interesting BBC documentary about stupidity (i think it was just called "stupidity", in fact, although i can't remember now). according to this documentary, it is actually more culturally and socially acceptable in the US to be stupid than to be smarter than the rest of the people in the room. the "for dummies" series was cited as being simultaneously an example and a symptom of this attitude.
7. Anything Jane Austen - Sorry, Dr D, but I'm a lit graduate and had these prissy, precocious books shoved down my throat again and again throughout college. Since then, anything that reeks of rural spinsters with good manners just sort of riles me up.
i understand lit graduate genre overdoses but it's funny, i had the exact opposite reaction the first time i read a book by Austen : i found it incredibly witty and sarcastic, the opposite of prissy. i spent most of the book laughing.

ha ! that reminds me of another one : the journal of Bridget Jones. a friend of mine recommended this to me (and lent me her copy) saying it was so hilarious that she had to stop reading it in the métro because it was becoming too embarassing, people were staring at her, and that i would love it because it was a modern day transcription of Pride and Prejudice (which i *do* love). i only laughed once, a little bit (more like a snicker) : when Bridget says "It struck me as pretty ridiculous to be called Mr Darcy and to stand on your own looking snooty at a party." not the worst i ever read, but not worth the hype either ; completely superficial, not particularly well-written, completely lacking any meaningful insight, and not more than mildly funny. i haven't seen the movie version but now that i've read the book i don't particularly want to.

Eragon: If I ever have to read another book about dwarfs beating on rocks I'm going to beat on the author.

The Bridges of Madison County: Did for romance novels what DaVinci code did for adventure novels

I agree with someone above: if I do not like a book I just do not continue reading it.
In my experience, 5 or 10 pages is enough.

i understand lit graduate genre overdoses but it's funny, i had the exact opposite reaction the first time i read a book by Austen : i found it incredibly witty and sarcastic, the opposite of prissy. i spent most of the book laughing.


My experience also. I started to watch the BBC TV series of Pride and Prejudice and that was good so I thought I should read the book and liked it very much and have read it 2-3 times. And Pride and Prejudice at least is very funny and you laugh a lot.

The majority of fantasy books particularly any book about dragons.
I feel that way too.theres just something boring ,repetitive,unremarkable and kinda stiff and reaking of realism with a tad bit of sword swinging,epsecialy when the plot on the back of the book is described as "from A,the hero of the plains goes on,to face his destiny and the malevolent sorcerer B" etc.etc.,anything of THAT sort,you know what I mean.

and I understand Eragon.Never REALY read much of it,but when a 400 page book,with a Dragon on the cover is published in a rather HUGE text size,It makes you wonder.

according to this documentary, it is actually more culturally and socially acceptable in the US to be stupid than to be smarter than the rest of the people in the room.Sadly, this is indeed often the case.

In defense of "dragon" books, I very much enjoy Anne McCaffrey's "Pern" books, though the later ones, particularly the ones co-written with her son, are fading off. :shrug:

Well, been gone for 24 hours to come back in the middle of a fight. C'mon ease up people. We are all about diversity be it geographical, cultural or generational. We are here under this banner to celebrate reading. Sometimes readings are really untolerable to a few people so it is fitting that what can be an annoying experience be cited in name here. A thread such as this one is justified and to me revealing.

If we were all the same there would be one and only one book. (No offense to orthodox religious people was meant. :) )

This is a thread about opinions. Nobody is right or wrong when they like or dislike a book. Just keep that in mind when you start thinking that someone is not right in the head when s/he likes or dislikes a book you feel the opposite about. Just because you like something I might feel is rubbish, that does not make you or I right or wrong. Its just what is.

I usually do as several here has mentioned and stop reading when I don't like the book. Although from time to time I'll not realize before the end how bad the book really is.

Two of the worst reading experiences I've had in my life is:
1. Absolute power by David Baldacci: When I finished the book I was feeling quite winded and miserable and I tried to find out why. After thinking for a while I realized it was because of all the murders. I like a good crime/mystery and will happily read about numerous victims of serial killers, but they should have some relevance to the story. In the case of Mr. Baldaccis book he must have had a really bad day/week/year and he managed to inlict his bad mood on me :(.

2. The (so called) Aurian saga by Maggie Furey (four books): I actually liked the first book. I really, really liked it. That's why I hate this series so passionately. I have never had a more disappointing reading experience in my whole life. The second book was OK, the third was not so good, but by then I needed to know what would happen to all these people. On the back of the last book it said something to the effect that all loose ends were wrapped up in this book. I thought that at least was a comfort, in case the fourth was no better than the third. It was worse. And the loose ends? She would have needed to write another (long) book to have a chance to wrap even half of them up.

That was todays rant and I feel amazingly relaxed. I think I'll have to do this more often;).

Have anybody else here read these books? Any opinions?

I'm with Greycat on this one. I like mystery and crime novels but don't like unnecessary descriptions of violence: gore, guts and splattering put me off. (In fact I really don't want to know too much about Marc's relationship with the large intestine either, though hope they will both be very happy.*)

*Reference to another thread.

What I find interesting about this thread is the concept of a "bad book". At least until the internet age, somebody (a publisher) had to think a story was good enough to make money off of, or else the book wouldn't exist. The <really> bad books never saw the light of day. (Undoubtable some good books as well, but relatively few.

But if I make a list of truly bad books, I'll get a blank look, because nobody would have heard of them, much less read them. (G8 and His Battle Aces, anyone? How about the first Tom Swift book? No? Hmmm... Station X by George Mcleod?) Obscurity has it's place in the world. (Hence my tacky first post.)

So this thread seems to be about books the many people have read, but still think are "bad". A rarified strata indeed. After all, a lot of people plunked down a lot of money to get them there...

I think we need a counterpoint thread to this one. Currently obscure books that you think ought to be read, and why they're so entertaining. (Wasp by Eric Frank Russell, anyone?)

I can't say I really *hate* anything I've read. However, I'm usually fond of ACC's work, but "Childhood's End" just left me feeling depressed. I found it hard to believe that the entire population of Earth just 'give up' and die.

I think we need a counterpoint thread to this one. Currently obscure books that you think ought to be read, and why they're so entertaining. (Wasp by Eric Frank Russell, anyone?)

Isn't Wasp a classic in the science fiction field and many people have read it? NESFA republished Eric Frank Russell a couple of years ago. He is a favourite author of mine and I have read most of his books.

I have to look for bad books among the books I read for different reasons then the usual. For example I read all Hugo nominated novels each year and amoung them I thing Hominids and Humans by Robert Sawyer was very bad made me stop reading Sawyer. But his books gets nominated so obviously there is a large number of people that actually likes the books...

Bill Pronzini ---- no, no. He's ok, in my opinion.:)

Now that I have your attention:

A number of years ago Pronzini wrote two books about some of the WORST writing in the history of mystery and detective fiction. Even authors who have a "good" reputation can sometimes turn out prune juice. (Read: It goes in, but it comes out most unpleasantly. I think one has to have a sense of humor to appreicate bad writing...

The title of one of these two books is Gun In Cheek and is one of the most hilarious reads you might encounter. I can't remember the title of the other one. (I have both, but they're packed up in my storage unit, since I'm preparing to go back to Peru.)

Pronzini mainly focused on the HORRIBLE writing from a publishing house called Pheonix Press. This was an outfit from the 30s-50s that catered mainly to the library market, so very few of these books found their way into the public.

The excerpts will have you rolling on the floor and, if you're not careful, may leave you with a stink in your pants.

Track down Gun in Cheek if you want a wonderful reading experience full of misplaced modifiers, corny dialogue, over-sexed detectives, and plot gimmicks out of Lo***c***. The English language never had it so good!:rofl:

Thinking of this book also reminds me of the wonderfully bad and thorougly hilarious writings of Robert Leslie Bellem. He was one of the best bad writers I've ever read. I love his horrible writing!:rofl:

Don

NOTE: I'm assembling some Bellem for the Sony upload section. After all, I shouldn't be the only person laughing...or being tortured.:rofl:

Edited: My horrible grammatical error: - worse/worst - !!!!

Isn't Wasp a classic in the science fiction field and many people have read it? NESFA republished Eric Frank Russell a couple of years ago. He is a favourite author of mine and I have read most of his books.


It is a classic, and I have both NESFA books, but only we S/F diehards have even heard of NESFA press. If you check your local p-book store, you won't see anything by Russell. Sadly, despite offers from Baen Books, the executor of his estate adamately refuses to let any of his works be issued as e-books...

NOTE: I'm assembling some Bellem for the Sony upload section. After all, I shouldn't be the only person laughing...or being tortured.:rofl:

sounds great ! is there any chance you could also make a mobi (prc) version, or even just an html source file, for people who don't have a sony but still like to laugh ?

sounds great ! is there any chance you could also make a mobi (prc) version, or even just an html source file, for people who don't have a sony but still like to laugh ?

Yes...I will.

I need to branch out and start posting for different formats other than for my beloved Sony PRS-505 with 200 megs of Ram and a magnetized cover front-and-back with its well-thought-out button layout.......

Seriously, I do plan to do what you suggest. I guess I'm just lazy, as the learning curve on BookDesigner was somewhat high when I learned it about a year ago. Then I got caught up in making Bbebs and forgot that I had a life outside of this Forum and did nothing but make uploads available. I'm going to go ahead and learn to make pdbs and (perhaps) .rbs/.imps available.

WARNING! THE FOLLOWING SENTENCE IS A JOKE AND IS NOT MEANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY: Now that my relationship has settled down [read: no longer a need to date her, since we're going to be married], I can now devote my entire life to making books available in Bbeb and other formats!!:rofl::rofl:

Don:)

When you make the Mobi edition, HarryT's directions work very well to make a proper Mobi edition using the Book Designer source you already have.

Yes...I will.

I need to branch out and start posting for different formats other than for my beloved Sony PRS-505 with 200 megs of Ram and a magnetized cover front-and-back with its well-thought-out button layout.......

Seriously, I do plan to do what you suggest. I guess I'm just lazy, as the learning curve on BookDesigner was somewhat high when I learned it about a year ago. Then I got caught up in making Bbebs and forgot that I had a life outside of this Forum and did nothing but make uploads available. I'm going to go ahead and learn to make pdbs and (perhaps) .rbs/.imps available.

WARNING! THE FOLLOWING SENTENCE IS A JOKE AND IS NOT MEANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY: Now that my relationship has settled down [read: no longer a need to date her, since we're going to be married], I can now devote my entire life to making books available in Bbeb and other formats!!:rofl::rofl:

Don:)

great news ! non sony-owners the world over thank you. we appreciate it.

if you want to save some time, just make a mobi version from your original bd file, then you can use nick's mobi2imp tool (look in the eb1150 forum ; there's a sticky) to automatically (even in batches !) create imps from them. it's very easy ; now that there is a windows interface, i would say the learning curve has a grade of approximately 0.01% (or, "not steep at all", for the mathematically challenged among us, including myself, in case 0% would actually be completely vertical). in fact, if you don't want to make the imps, as long as you make a mobi (prc) file, we can make our own imps...

i mention this because i would really hate your fiancée to have me to blame, when you abandon her for full-time book-making activities. :wink:

great news ! non sony-owners the world over thank you. we appreciate it.

i mention this because i would really hate your fiancée to have me to blame, when you abandon her for full-time book-making activities. :wink:

Thanks for the suggestion and thank you for the nice comments.

JSWolf...I'll look at Harry's tutorial, as well.

Don

What I find interesting about this thread is the concept of a "bad book". At least until the internet age, somebody (a publisher) had to think a story was good enough to make money off of, or else the book wouldn't exist. The <really> bad books never saw the light of day. ...


Sometimes an author's reputation will let them get away with something really bad. The publisher assumes it'll sell anyhow.

I think Agatha Christie's 'Passenger to Frankfurt' is a book that would never have been published if somebody else had written it.

I rather enjoyed The Da Vinci Code. Kind of like fast food reading. Quick read, perfect for the beach. Same with Harry Potter, especially the earlier books even though I enjoyed them all.

My worst books are anything I can't get through. I still have the last WOT book on my nightstand about halfway read. It's like slogging through mud, so many characters and sub plots. I'll eventually finish it, probably right before the last one is published.

WARNING! THE FOLLOWING SENTENCE IS A JOKE AND IS NOT MEANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY: Now that my relationship has settled down [read: no longer a need to date her, since we're going to be married], I can now devote my entire life to making books available in Bbeb and other formats!!:rofl::rofl:

Don:)

I don't know. If you had said, "The following is in jest:", I might have believed you, Don. Or if you'd just put a winky emoticon after it. But when you write "WARNING! THE FOLLOWING SENTENCE IS A JOKE AND IS NOT MEANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY:", I really gotta wonder. There's something about protesting too much. Maybe you should send us your fiance's email address and we'll warn her for you. You wouldn't mind that, would you?;)

When I was a schoolboy everyone's parents had been affected by The War. Our neighbor was a Nazi death-camp survivor and some schoolmates were of Japanese descent, born in US concentration camps. Since my subject was History I wanted to try to figure out what happened, so I tried to read Mein Kampf by Adolph Hitler. I was unable to finish it. I did get far enough to realize that insanity CAN be learned!

The language of the translation was OK but it was the foulest book I ever saw, so I'm nominating Mein Kampf for worst book.

Dr. Drib, if you also install all the bits needed for mobi2imp to function, you can also create IMP editions once you get a good Mobi edition made.

6-well,ive got a short "excerpt" edition with a comon sense critical comentary on the key parts.Much better-the book is just made for repetitiveness and to "Get" to the simple folk.

coffeebreak:Hi Everyone! These are my opinions, so please love me for my differences as well as my sames. Here goes:
<snip>
5. The Two Towers (Lord of the Rings) - It is a very long segue from book 1 to book 3. Don't yell, I know 2 Towers is more character driven than event driven as in the other books, but I just seem to skim the whole book whenever I re-read the series.

</snip>


Thank you. I was reading through the thread before I posted. I figured I'd be the first one to mention this book. The Two Towers is the reason I've never finished reading the trilogy.

To me it's not even character driven, for me it's just that it's hundreds of pages describing how they're going through the forest, and describing every trea, leaf, branch, twig, rock, etc. in the freaking forest!

I've tried reading it three times, and have never finished it.

junkml and DixieGal, you both seem to have had similar problems making it through The Two Towers of LOTR. It sounds to me that these dragged on too slowly for you either because of a slow pace of the plot or because of longer descriptions or both. Is that right? Could you also please say what you thought of the first book, The Fellowship of the Ring? I hope you'll forgive my curiosity. My personal experience was quite different and I'm just trying to understand people's views.

Could you also please say what you thought of the first book, The Fellowship of the Ring? I hope you'll forgive my curiosity. My personal experience was quite different and I'm just trying to understand people's views.

I have a confession. I've tried several times, but never made it through the first book.

Thank you. I was reading through the thread before I posted. I figured I'd be the first one to mention this book. The Two Towers is the reason I've never finished reading the trilogy.

To me it's not even character driven, for me it's just that it's hundreds of pages describing how they're going through the forest, and describing every trea, leaf, branch, twig, rock, etc. in the freaking forest!

I've tried reading it three times, and have never finished it.

Thank you, I had read the first denouncement of TT and was going to reply, but you described it better for me. I always said, Tolkien described the scenery so beautiful in that book, I swear he even bothered to detail an individual blade of grass at some point. Though I must admit, years later I reread the trilogy and didn't find it as long winded as I once did.

In response to another couple users comments on a long winded tale. I have to admit, Atlas Shrugged is a mediocre work of fiction, but perhaps the best ever work of personality studies ever done. Anthem and The Fountainhead were much better 'read's of fiction.

Someone mentioned American Gods, I haven't gotten around to it yet. I happen to love a few of Gaiman's works but couldn't get past Good Omens with Pratchett. I love dry and dark humour, but after a hundred or so pages into it I hadn't once caught a smirk from the text. I think the prose was parched.

From my young adult years, I have to mention Alan Dean Foster. So many people at that stage would include him on their list of must reads that I forced myself to try novel after novel. I read about 5 or 6 before settling on my opinion. I absolutely detest the books I read by him. A summary of everyone of them is this. Group of charactors have to get to a place, they are going, they are going, they are there, fin.

The Harry Potter series I felt was a great series, written for the pre-teen/teen market, and the story can easily be appreciated by adults. I wonder perhaps if several people in here became biased against it because of the hype. (Happens to the best of us)

And the Old Ones' frown upon your Lovecraft comments.

It is with respect to your opinions that I have structured my response to you. I feel it's ok to disagree on issues, Lobolover, but to engage in critical thinking on WHY people disagree is really the important issue of this thread.

Also, we're having fun here!!



Don

Hey Don, you're a poopy head. Analyze that. :)

-MJ

junkml and DixieGal, you both seem to have had similar problems making it through The Two Towers of LOTR. It sounds to me that these dragged on too slowly for you either because of a slow pace of the plot or because of longer descriptions or both. Is that right? Could you also please say what you thought of the first book, The Fellowship of the Ring? I hope you'll forgive my curiosity. My personal experience was quite different and I'm just trying to understand people's views.
I am not a fan of LOTR. They are far from the worst I have ever read. The plot seemed to move slower than daytime television soap operas. The fill of over embellished descriptions added nothing to the books other than to let the mind wander and wonder if former US Vice President Humphery had written it. (He was know for long winded speeches that contained no substance, even by political speech criteria.)

Thank you, I had read the first denouncement of TT and was going to reply, but you described it better for me. I always said, Tolkien described the scenery so beautiful in that book, I swear he even bothered to detail an individual blade of grass at some point. Though I must admit, years later I reread the trilogy and didn't find it as long winded as I once did.

In response to another couple users comments on a long winded tale. I have to admit, Atlas Shrugged is a mediocre work of fiction, but perhaps the best ever work of personality studies ever done. Anthem and The Fountainhead were much better 'read's of fiction.

Someone mentioned American Gods, I haven't gotten around to it yet. I happen to love a few of Gaiman's works but couldn't get past Good Omens with Pratchett. I love dry and dark humour, but after a hundred or so pages into it I hadn't once caught a smirk from the text. I think the prose was parched.

From my young adult years, I have to mention Alan Dean Foster. So many people at that stage would include him on their list of must reads that I forced myself to try novel after novel. I read about 5 or 6 before settling on my opinion. I absolutely detest the books I read by him. A summary of everyone of them is this. Group of charactors have to get to a place, they are going, they are going, they are there, fin.

The Harry Potter series I felt was a great series, written for the pre-teen/teen market, and the story can easily be appreciated by adults. I wonder perhaps if several people in here became biased against it because of the hype. (Happens to the best of us)

And the Old Ones' frown upon your Lovecraft comments.



Hey Don, you're a poopy head. Analyze that. :)

-MJ


Ok, I'll try: It means rolling around on the floor laughing so hard my bowels hurt, and then poopy has to come out somewhere!!:)

About Good Omens, I actually read this when it first came out. Unfortunately, I can't recall anything about it, except that the humor was somewaht dry for me, as well. I think - and I could be wrong on this - it was the first novel by Gaiman.

I also find agreement with you on Atlas Shrugged. For me, it was one of those must-reads - along with Herman Hesse's work and Carlos Castaneda - that I devoured while in my mid-twenties. At the time, I was more fascinated by the ideas rather than the writing.

In the mid-to-late 60s I discovered Tolkien. For me, Tolkien was a natural progression from Burroughs [Edgar!], then onward to L***c***, and progressively toward what I term more "sophisticated" horror.

I've never read Foster. I know the name quite well; I've just never been compelled to read anything by him.

Don

I am not a fan of LOTR. They are far from the worst I have ever read. The plot seemed to move slower than daytime television soap operas. The fill of over embellished descriptions added nothing to the books other than to let the mind wander and wonder if former US Vice President Humphery had written it. (He was know for long winded speeches that contained no substance, even by political speech criteria.)

Ha! I loved the guy. Just wish he hadn't opened his mouth so often and for so long. Critters seemed to make their way in and out of it all the time.

I suffered as did Nate and plenty of others with the first book. It took me forever to finish it. And every time I turned the page they'd break out in song again (in elvish, of course) about something and someone you've never heard. No telling what these must have sounded like in Tolkien's head.

But I learned to skip over the singing and then the story and the characters really interested me so that by the time I made it to The Tower Towers, it all seemed to go by in a flash.

I could post my entire high-school English class reading list (all four years) as books I hated: I had a knee-jerk "I hate this" reaction to everything they told us to read. I blame it on the fact that the first thing on that list was Lord of the Flies, which should never have been given to 13/14 year olds to read: they're already messed up enough at that age.

However, I wouldn't necessarily consider them all bad. In retrospect, a few of them were fairly good, I Am The Cheese comes to mind, many of them were just there (I never liked Hemingway, and still don't), and a few I'd rather gnaw off my own leg (metaphorically speaking) than read again: Member of the Wedding, A Separate Peace.

The odd thing is, I didn't hate reading, I read a lot during those years, I just resented being told what to read, apparently. Well, that plus the LOTF thing. :mad:

I could post my entire high-school English class reading list (all four years) as books I hated: I had a knee-jerk "I hate this" reaction to everything they told us to read.

The odd thing is, I didn't hate reading, I read a lot during those years, I just resented being told what to read, apparently. Well, that plus the LOTF thing. :mad:

Ditto. That's why number 1 on my list are all Russian classics. Although I loved to read books. My dad forced me to switch off the light at 23.00 every night on week days, so I had a small torch (such as being used in coal mines) and I used it to read book under my blanket till 01.00...very rarely but it happened a few times till 05.00-06.00 in the morning when I read Consuelo and la Comtesse De Rudolstady (1843, a sequel to Consuelo - cannot find the name in English) :o

Has anyone read and enjoyed Mervyn Peake's 'Gormenghast' trilogy?

Every few years I get the urge to give them another try; but I always find the prose so turgid that I give up about half way through the first volume. :sad:

(The BBC TV adaptation was good though - one example of the film/TV version being better than the book, in my opinion.)

Has anyone read and enjoyed Mervyn Peake's 'Gormenghast' trilogy?

Every few years I get the urge to give them another try; but I always find the prose so turgid that I give up about half way through the first volume. :sad:

(The BBC TV adaptation was good though - one example of the film/TV version being better than the book, in my opinion.)


Sorry you can't get into the set, Sparrow. We seem to disagree on these books.

This is a very Dickensian trilogy, a set that is wonderfully rich with characterization and atmosphere. Ballantine Adult Fantasy reprinted these in the late 70s / early 80s.

My email address that I've had for a number of years has been cabellpeake@*******.com

Which brings me to another thread just started, the one on obscure books: I'll post over there, however, once I get my thoughts together. The Cabell refers to James Branch Cabell.

Don

Whatever the 10 latest books Oprah has recommended.

LOL! Oh so true.

6. Battlefield Earth (Lunatic Ron Hubbard)

BTW, the movie version also qualifies for the worst 10 movies ever made list!

Hi VivRules,

(Sorry for not responding sooner.)

LOTR 1 & 3

I love them. I was a teenager when I first read the series, and the idea of hobbits and other magical creatures was a revelation to me that there could be fairy tales for adults. When I got older and the aforementioned lit degree had a course in fantasy fiction, I learned that Tolkien, like Geoffrey of Monmouth* 700 yrs earlier, had been trying to concoct a mythical heroic past for a butally beaten post-WWII Britain. When I re-read the series for the class, comparing it to greek and roman mythology, I got a whole new and fascinating reading from Book 1. Then when the movies came out, I read it again just for fun.

* Geoffrey of Monmouth sort of "invented" King Arthur in the 13th century. Geoff was a scribe in the Norman court in England, serving under an occupying ruling class that still regarded the Britons as 2nd class citizens. Geoff scraped together fragments of history and legend and wrote a "true" history of England, including a heroic King Arthur. Many experts believe the purpose of his book was to try to create a heroic mythology in order to revive a sense of national identity among the Britons.

DixieGal, the Career Secretary
And they said a lit degree would be worthless... Oh wait, it was!

junkml and DixieGal, you both seem to have had similar problems making it through The Two Towers of LOTR. It sounds to me that these dragged on too slowly for you either because of a slow pace of the plot or because of longer descriptions or both. Is that right? Could you also please say what you thought of the first book, The Fellowship of the Ring? I hope you'll forgive my curiosity. My personal experience was quite different and I'm just trying to understand people's views.

Honestly I can't separate books one and two of that trilogy in my head anymore. I just know I've tried reading the trilogy three times and I always get about halfway through the second book, put it down, and never pick it up again. And yes, I guess you could say the plot is slow (to me it's non-existant), and the describing of every tree, every leaf on every tree, every piece of ground beneath every tree, every rock on every piece of ground under every tree, etc. just gets annoying!

I've had other people tell me before that they just flip ahead ten pages at a time when they hit these sections, so they can read the book. I can't bring myself to do that. If I feel like I have to start skipping whole sections of a book, it's not worth my time to read.

I've had other people tell me before that they just flip ahead ten pages at a time when they hit these sections, so they can read the book. I can't bring myself to do that. If I feel like I have to start skipping whole sections of a book, it's not worth my time to read.

You know, alot of people rank on "best sellers" in this forum. About how they aren't very deep etc. But, books by patterson, grishim, clancy, and yes JK Rowling are page turners, almost every word advances the story or the characters.

For example, in goodkinds Sword of Truth books at the end of the last one Richard gives a speach that seems to go on about 20 pages which rehashes alot of the preachy and philisopical stuff that ran through the whole series. This is the kind of stuff that looses most readers. We are all used to the web, email, im, instant gratification.

Anyway... nuff said.

BOb

Back in the 80's I loved Tom Clancy's books. When Hunt for the Red October came out it was literally required reading at work. I was a first year engineer working on submarine design. I can still remember the excitement created by this book. The earlier Clancy books were appealing because of the engineering detail (not always correct but that was the fun part, picking out the mistakes). Nowadays, I can't really read any of his books without falling asleep.

LOTR, I've always felt that the TT was the slowest of the trilogy and loved how Peter Jackson divided up the movies as opposed to the pbooks. I've read the trilogy 4 or 5 times in the past 30 years and it's about time to reread them. Fellowship has some slow parts in the first third of the book but I'm always swept away by Tolkien's descriptions that bring all aspects of his world alive.

BTW, the movie version also qualifies for the worst 10 movies ever made list!I'm not sure it qualifies as a movie for me.

Understand, when I first read the book in the early '80s, the paperback copy I had said "Soon to be a major motion picture!" on the front cover. I waited for the movie for years. I wanted to like the movie, I really, really did. I wanted to like it so badly that the desire lasted the whole first hour of the film before I finally could admit to myself that it really, really stank. :unafraid:

Back in the 80's I loved Tom Clancy's books. When Hunt for the Red October came out it was literally required reading at work. I was a first year engineer working on submarine design.

Yes, I did mean early Clancy. I think some writers start resting on their laurals. Grisham was the same, his first 3 or 4 were the best.

Ah, your an engineer, that explains alot... kidding. As a private pilot I cringe when they do airplane stuff on TV or movies. They get most of it wrong. As a software developer I cringe when they do computer, network, virus, etc stuff in TV and movies cause they get alot wrong. Of course, if they had the right info, the whole show/plot woudn't exist.

Then again, some great movies, the PC is just a tool to move the story, so even the technical mistakes are easily overlooked... like War Games, one of my all time favorite movies.

BOb

Extremely interesting thread. I've been lurking on this one and reading, smirking at the great humour of Marcs list and his fun loving dig at Lovecraft, "I've done scarier craps" made me laugh. As it was intended... I read, alot, (otherwise I wouldn't be on this forum) for pleasure and most of what I read is fairly eclectic. I have no real plan or goal, I just read. To me the definition of a good book is one that sweeps me into another world or reality and carries me somewhere. Anywhere. I love long descriptions of scenery as long as it fills out a reality and makes it more real, makes me breathe the air in the Authors imagination.
I love LOTR. I've read it probably 15 times and every other year or so go through it again. I REALLY enjoyed the Harry Potter series and read them all more than once along with my 3 boys. We would have arguments about which spell we would use on people as we were driving down the road etc. I liked Atlas Shrugged quite a bit, God knows why. Moby Dick is another favorite. I like Russian literature and have read nearly all of the Conan books and roar my approval when he is the last man standing after an epic battle in which everyone but him dies! Pat Conroy is one of my favorite writers when it comes to 'painting a real scene'. There's no accounting for my own tastes and I'm old enough so I don't even try anymore. So. I'm... (Like all of us) unique.

To me a bad book is one where the world doesn't work, or the plot takes a twist thats not interesting, or when the writer puts in details that don't advance the story or imagery, or when the characters do or say something with motives that don't line up with already established charater development.

Ok.. my list...

1. Clan of the Cave Bear. Dude! That book kept trying to be good and I kept waiting for the world she was trying to create in my head to coalesce, but it never did.

2. Anything recent Clancy has written. All his books up to Red Storm Rising were really good! Then he became so successfull he could start telling his editor to take a hike and write what he really is interested in, (Long technical descriptions of military technology that go on for 20 pages) and in the process lost me completely as a 'constant reader'.

3. The last book in the Dark Tower series by S. King. And I've read almost everything King's written and loved it. The ending ticked me off so much after investing maybe 40 total hours in the Series lost in Mid world with Roland and company, completely enchanted by King's skill as a storyteller, then to get gypped when the Top of the tower DOESN'T HAVE GOD WAITING FOR HIM!!!! after setting it up over thousands of pages he goes back on the wheel of Ka. The most frustrating ending to a book in the history of the universe!

4. Far from the Madding Crowd. I think my heart stopped twice trying to read it. Boring...
5. Pride and Prejudice. (See above)
6. Carribean by Michener. I've read other Micheners I really liked but this one just never got off the runway.
7. Great Expectations. Arghh... I heroicall struggled with this one for seemingly hundreds of pages and All i got was a kid named Pip and an old lady who broke all her clocks and has a wedding dress full of spiders.
8. The Lost World by Crichton. Liked Jurassic Park alot. The Lost World lost me big time. The Velociraptors went from being ultra cool villians with no fear and almost infinite cunning, to hapless sheepdogs a little kid fools by throwing a steak into a walk in fridge then slamming the door on them.
9. Dances With Wolves (The Movie) The book was actually very good but Costner completely blew the part of Dunbar.
10. The Secret. Browsed through this book at Walmart one day while my wife was taking an hour and a half to pick out a Mothers day card. Lame indeed.

You know its much easier to talk about books Ilove than books I hate.

while my wife was taking an hour and a half to pick out a Mothers day card.

"an all new mother" you mean.NO ONE can "pick out" a flat square of cardboard for over 90 minutes.

Lobo. I guess you love to argue don't you? Or are you really just a troll trying to start arguments for fun? I wasn't lying and if you are trying to tick me off and get another argument going you can forget it. I avoided commenting on your earlier attempts to see if you could get blood flowing on this thread and I'm going to avoid arguing with you over whether or not my wife searched for a moms day card for 90 minutes. My wife loves her Mother so much and she really did take 90 minutes looking at every card in the store, then deciding which one would bless her Mom the most. I knew it would hurt her feelings if I went and tried to hurry her so I went and found a book to read while I was waiting instead of fuming at her. Its a choice Lobo to take offense or not. I choose right now NOT to take offense at you calling me a liar. You can do the same if you want to. I suggest you do so on this forum. Otherwise people will simply stop answering your posts entirely and you will find yourself being totally ignored when you try and stir the pot by calling people names directly or indirectly. Taking time to choose a mom's day card is one of the ways she cares. After 25 years of Marriage i've learned to live and love her ways.
If you attack or argue with me on this I wont respond to you.

Does anyone else want to continue the discussion about books?

That is a very mature attitude, Roy. Good for you.

What?Do you expect Im being SERIOUS AT ALL?Im not.Im hardly ever.

1-I'm not a troll-alegations of the oposite I see as an insult.

2-out of plain curiousity-whenever did I "call you names"?I don't remember incident's which don't happen.

and note-Kahlert's book doesn't realy deserve the hype it has,not saying its not a "good commonplace",but its certainly nowhere near the "dizying plot,that almost defies comprehension" stunt on the back.

Does anyone else find that their mental list of worst books changes as they get older and develop new tastes? (--she said, while trying to turn the conversation to more peaceful channels...)

I used to dislike Dickens at school (when Great expectations was forced on me) but now really like him, especially Bleak House. Conversely, I used to read virtually any detective stories but am now a lot more fussy.

I dislike "realistic" and "socialy critic" prose as a whole,Dicken's is just an author whom I don't read.Seriously,if ANYONE read "The Necromancer"-im almost dis-inclined to reading other Gothic novels (cept The Monk,Wieland and a few "secured ones").Reading about "false" supernatural things,being "cheats" made by groups of banditi over and over again?I ca