Hi there,

I'm new here, having only really thought about e-readers for the first time a few days ago. I was at Amazon looking for a book and watched the Kindle video and, although I'm not much given to impulse, immediately thought "I MUST HAVE THAT"! haha. In fact I can't remember the last time I was so smitten by something material. The E-ink technology, which I previously was oblivious to, is fantastic!

For the last few days I've been reading and researching and driving myself crazy with "should I, shouldn't I", and I've decided I should, but now am almost getting depressed over my inability to decide on which particular reader to get!

I travel half of each month and am always carting around several paperbacks.
I read mostly fantasy or science fiction novels. I don't care at all about PDF files which apparently a lot of these readers have problems with.

I have finally narrowed my selection down to either the Kindle or the Cybook 3.

For some undefinable and probably illogical reason I really "want" to like the Kindle better but my logical side is leaning toward the Cybook.

One advantage of the Cybook (in regards to what's important to me, not necessarily other folks) that I'm aware of is that it is significantly thinner and lighter. It seems like it would fit better in my already full backpack.

It looks like the Cybook would be more ergonomic than the Kindle for reading in bed and in plane seats, but I'm not really sure about that at all. Any input in this area?

Those are really the main reasons I'm leaning toward the Cybook, although I also like that you can customize your fonts.

The Kindle has the wireless capability. Which really is super cool as I would love being able to access wikipedia on a whim. So many times during the day I do think "I should look such and such obscure thing" up when I get to a computer, only to forget all about it. I don't really care too much about being able to get the books sent directly to the device, while it is nice, not being able to do so on the Cybook is no deal breaker. I guess I'm only interested in these features if they do not interfere (by way of all those keys and requiring a thicker form factor) at all with actually reading.

As far as content availability goes, I did some looking around, and although all the formats and such are rather confusing still to me, it seems like there is plenty available for both. If I understand correctly I'd be able to read a mobipocket formatted book on either device, but not a Kindle formatted book on the Cybook (without some kind of "hack).

Well, I'm not sure if anyone can help me decide, as it comes down to personal preference. I do wish I could just hold each of them in person, then I'm sure the decision would be clear! But if anyone has used both devices and could comment on the actual comfort of holding and using while reading in bed or in a plane, or any other ergonomic issues, maybe it would help me. In any case I'm so happy I found these forums, as it is the best source of consolidated information I found on e-readers!

Sorry for rambling on so long!

stephanie

Welcome to the forum. I see your sig says you have a Kindle but I guess that is 'to be determined later' in baseball parlance.:)

If you do go with Cybook then by all means check out the NAEB thread
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21749 I ordered mine through them and saved $75 off the Bookeen price.

You've probably seen this page but if not check it out for all the detail in the world about these devices:
http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/E-book_Reader_Matrix

I understand the Cybook is so small it will fit nicely in a ladies purse. Either device is great and you will be pleased whatever you choose.

I sent you a personal message with some links to books you might find of interest. This is a great hobby and very addictive.:book2:

It looks like the Cybook would be more ergonomic than the Kindle for reading in bed and in plane seats, but I'm not really sure about that at all. Any input in this area?

As far as content availability goes, I did some looking around, and although all the formats and such are rather confusing still to me, it seems like there is plenty available for both. If I understand correctly I'd be able to read a mobipocket formatted book on either device, but not a Kindle formatted book on the Cybook (without some kind of "hack). The Cybook is smaller and lighter, but not that much smaller and lighter. The Kindle is ok for reading in bed and in plane seats.

MOBI (or PRC) ebooks without DRM are readable on the Kindle. Secure (DRM-laden) MOBI ebooks from some stores (but not others) can be authorized for the Kindle, but still need an extra conversion step. Alternatively, the DRM from all recent Secure MOBI ebooks can be stripped to produce a DRM-free MOBI file which is readable on the Kindle. Reading authorized MOBI ebooks on a Kindle is probably legal in the US, but stripping DRM from an ebook (even for format shifting) may not be legal.

You need to own a Kindle to buy Kindle ebooks from Amazon. Not all Secure Kindle ebooks are in the AZW format, but the DRM from AZW ebooks can be stripped to produce a DRM-free MOBI file that is readable on the Cybook.

A Kindle owner is likely to buy Secure ebooks from Amazon. This locks them in to some extent, although AZW ebooks can be converted to MOBI. The Cybook will read MOBI ebooks from many vendors, and MOBI ebooks are likely to be usable on many current and future devices.

I have finally narrowed my selection down to either the Kindle or the Cybook 3.


The Sony reader will work very well for you, based on your Use Cases. It is also probably the only unit you can have "tommorow" if you order it today. The Kindle and CyBook could take 4 to 6 weeks to get your hands on. Unless you get luck and find that books on board or some other place has it in stock.

BOb

The Sony reader will work very well for you, based on your Use Cases. It is also probably the only unit you can have "tommorow" if you order it today. The Kindle and CyBook could take 4 to 6 weeks to get your hands on. Unless you get luck and find that books on board or some other place has it in stock.

BOb

Not that bad for the Gen3 - they're saying 1st week in May.

Yeah, I can agree on the Sony Reader.

Frankly, it all comes down to extra features. In all three cases, you have the same exact size and spec screen.

For me, the decision about of the Sony over the Kindle was made in three parts:

1. I didn't like the lead time of shipment for the Kindle.
2. I was uncertain that the price was worth the difference in product.. because..
3. I have been a Sprint customer for a long time, and know full well that what they say will be "free for life" might not exactly be that. I remember being told I can tether my bluetooth phone to my laptop for internet so long as I have a dataplan on the phone.. for life... and just recently got a nice phone call from them telling me that that needs to stop.

So be aware, if you get the Kindle, you are relying on Sprint to keep their word and on Amazon to keep theirs.

Well folks, I ordered the Kindle, even though the Cybook 3 is still very attractive to me. I guess I couldn't resist the lure of the connectivity. So I just took the plunge and am settled in for the long wait! Thank you for your input. The comment on Sprint is interesting as I myself had a huge disagreement with them not too long ago and swore I'd never use them again, and now I will be.

stephanie

Well folks, I ordered the Kindle, even though the Cybook 3 is still very attractive to me. I guess I couldn't resist the lure of the connectivity. So I just took the plunge and am settled in for the long wait! Thank you for your input. The comment on Sprint is interesting as I myself had a huge disagreement with them not too long ago and swore I'd never use them again, and now I will be.

stephanie

Well, if it is any consolation, you are not using Sprint directly. Amazon is using Sprint infrastructure but that is common among cell-phone providers to make deals. Amazon controls the access and customer support. Sprint is only behind the scenes.

Dale

Well, if it is any consolation, you are not using Sprint directly. Amazon is using Sprint infrastructure but that is common among cell-phone providers to make deals. Amazon controls the access and customer support. Sprint is only behind the scenes.

Dale

That's what they say for now. But, relying on a company to keep their word "in perpetuity" is oftentimes hit or miss. And relying on Sprint to do that .. well.. we'll see in three or four years if everyone's still willing to do it for free.

I loved the product offering myself.. I just couldn't justify the price difference, and when I de-risked that fear out of it, I was faced with three readers with roughly the same featureset, one of which I could have now, the other two I'd have to wait for.

That's what they say for now. But, relying on a company to keep their word "in perpetuity" is oftentimes hit or miss. And relying on Sprint to do that .. well.. we'll see in three or four years if everyone's still willing to do it for free.

I loved the product offering myself.. I just couldn't justify the price difference, and when I de-risked that fear out of it, I was faced with three readers with roughly the same featureset, one of which I could have now, the other two I'd have to wait for.

No one is doing anything for free. Amazon is paying sprint, probably set up as an MVNO. Your book purchase includes "wispernet" delivery. The browseing of Wikipedia is said to be "experimental" so there is no expectation that it will always be "free" (included?) anyway.

BOb

Wikipedia is supposed to be permanent. Other free browsing is experimental.

i would rather shoot my dawg instead of deciding on an ebook reading device today. And since I currently do no have a dawggie my neighbor would be a tad unhappy with me if I borrowed theirs.

So I decided to not decide and opted for the N800. I justified that I can also use it to access the web (I have EVDO RevA mobile broadband and a few gadgets to let me access the web pretty much anywhere via wifi and an EVDO router so, like the Kindle I can do wiki and dictionary lookups (or local as I can have up to 64GB memory on the N800.)

I know I am avoiding things but none of the devices have a display I am really happy with because they ALL lack contrast to my eye. As much as I like the features on the Kindle, it's not there yet for me. As much as I like the look of the Sony, it's not even close to there because of the limited formats. And the Cybook is almost the device for me. Lacks just enough, for me personally that I am going to wait to see what shakes loose over the next year or so...I have an twitch that Amazon is not too happy with the production issue and might be looking to fix this by either buying the company that makes the displays or coming out with a whole new device come October/November...face it every day they are out of stock they loose hundreds of sales which can eventually turn to a thousand or more if they get everything just right. Demand seems to show there is a solid market...now Amazon needs to secure a steady supply of devices. As do any company who wants to be a player in this market. I wanna see Cybook win because they are the leetle company that could, ya know? But Sony has the deepest pockets and Amazon has the content and brand people associate with books of all sorts.

But, aside from shooting my non-existant dawggie, I would likely go with the Kindle or the Cybook based on a coin flip. Though since you can still do some web browsing with the EVDO (I think right?) that might tease me over to the Kindle Kamp. But if either of them added the ability to write on the display like the iliad then that would be my choice hands down, at the same price point of course.

I know I am avoiding things but none of the devices have a display I am really happy with because they ALL lack contrast to my eye.

Have you actually used one "for real", as a matter of interest?

For me, an eInk display absolutely "wipes the floor" with any LCD screen, and I say that after reading on LCD screens for 20-odd years. I'd never go back to an LCD display for book reading.

eInk is the best, IMHO, for reading. I have bad eyes and eInk is by far the least stressful on my eyes. The only caveat is that I must have sufficient light, just like when reading a pbook. I read on backlit LCDs for years and it was okay but definitely caused eyestrain. eInk is great and I can't wait for it to get better, such as better contrast and larger sizes. Color would be nice, too. Better contrast would allow me to read in lower lighting situations without an additional light source and larger screen size would make reading periodicals and PDF formatted documents easier.

eInk is the best, IMHO, for reading. I have bad eyes and eInk is by far the least stressful on my eyes. The only caveat is that I must have sufficient light, just like when reading a pbook. I read on backlit LCDs for years and it was okay but definitely caused eyestrain. eInk is great and I can't wait for it to get better, such as better contrast and larger sizes. Color would be nice, too. Better contrast would allow me to read in lower lighting situations without an additional light source and larger screen size would make reading periodicals and PDF formatted documents easier.

Agreed... that was one of the deciding factors for me. Plus there's the fact that having a Kindle would lock you in to purchasing eBooks from Amazon. I feel like my Cybook gives me a lot more freedom in that respect.

Plus there's the fact that having a Kindle would lock you in to purchasing eBooks from Amazon.

That's not true any more than having to buy books for the Sony from the Sony store or having to buy music from iTunes if you have an iPod.

BOb

That's not true any more than having to buy books for the Sony from the Sony store or having to buy music from iTunes if you have an iPod.

BOb

That's true. However, for DRM-laden ebooks, if it ain't Kindle AZW - and possibly Mobi, I'm still not clear on this - it can't be read on a Kindle. But then, that's true for Sony, Hanlin and Bookeen. Now the nice thing is that many-many AZW titles are also found out there as Mobi titles, which means that any iLiad or Cybook can read them once purchased from various DRM'd Mobi sources.

Why I'd suggest a Cybook is that it's lighter, somewhat less expensive and my company markets them. :)

Derek

Well folks, I ordered the Kindle, even though the Cybook 3 is still very attractive to me. I guess I couldn't resist the lure of the connectivity. So I just took the plunge and am settled in for the long wait! Thank you for your input. The comment on Sprint is interesting as I myself had a huge disagreement with them not too long ago and swore I'd never use them again, and now I will be.

stephanie
I wish you luck. As we know know, Sprint has a reputation for saying what used to be free has to now be paid for. And Amazon has a reputation for screwing people over on eBooks they used to sell. So from my standpoint, it's a possible lose-lose situation.

The 505 or Gen3 don't have those sorts of problems. Neither Sony nor Bookeen has a bad rep when it comes to eBooks.

The Amazon pricing is a bit better for new books - I got Jim Butcher's Small Favors for $9.95 and it's $23.95 on the Mobi store and $16.96 on the Sony book store.

On the other hand, most of my reading in not "just released" - I also just got all three Naomi Novik "dragon" books - they were $5.59 each on Amazon, $6.69 each on Sony and $6.99 on the Mobi store.

And Sony lost my vote over the extremely poor customer service and technical service on my laptop. It's probably a separate division, but still, I was really annoyed with them.

The Amazon pricing is a bit better for new books - I got Jim Butcher's Small Favors for $9.95 and it's $23.95 on the Mobi store and $16.96 on the Sony book store.


Fictionwise has it with a 52% rebate, for a total of $11.50. You have to pay the full amount, but you get $12.45 in store credit, which is enough to buy another book. Maybe even two.

http://fictionwise.com/ebooks/eBook65211.htm

The Amazon pricing is a bit better for new books - I got Jim Butcher's Small Favors for $9.95 and it's $23.95 on the Mobi store and $16.96 on the Sony book store.

Actually, I have found that -- if one is willing to deal with the rebate system (and I am) -- Fictionwise prices are competitive and sometimes even better than Kindle prices.

Using the Mobi store itself doesn't provide the best basis for comparison.

I wish you luck. As we know know, Sprint has a reputation for saying what used to be free has to now be paid for. And Amazon has a reputation for screwing people over on eBooks they used to sell. So from my standpoint, it's a possible lose-lose situation.

The 505 or Gen3 don't have those sorts of problems. Neither Sony nor Bookeen has a bad rep when it comes to eBooks.

Though if you switched the wireless off permanently and never used another Sprint service, you'd still have more functionality than a Sony PRS.

Though if you switched the wireless off permanently and never used another Sprint service, you'd still have more functionality than a Sony PRS

Not so sure about this comment. I believe this would leave you with a built-in dictionary ( I don't have to look up words in a dictionary, and the ones I do from 18th and 19th century novels are rarely in dictionaries) - and the ability to annotate and highlight books (and I haven't made notes in a book since I left college).

So for me a Kindle over my Sony would leave me with a Sony that is cluttered with a keyboard I don't need. But we all have our different perspectives, wants and needs, so not about to really question anyone else's choice.

Bob

Though if you switched the wireless off permanently and never used another Sprint service, you'd still have more functionality than a Sony PRS

Not so sure about this comment. I believe this would leave you with a built-in dictionary ( I don't have to look up words in a dictionary, and the ones I do from 18th and 19th century novels are rarely in dictionaries) - and the ability to annotate and highlight books (and I haven't made notes in a book since I left college).

So for me a Kindle over my Sony would leave me with a Sony that is cluttered with a keyboard I don't need. But we all have our different perspectives, wants and needs, so not about to really question anyone else's choice.

Bob

You left out search and the content manager.

Though if you switched the wireless off permanently and never used another Sprint service, you'd still have more functionality than a Sony PRS

Not so sure about this comment. I believe this would leave you with a built-in dictionary ( I don't have to look up words in a dictionary, and the ones I do from 18th and 19th century novels are rarely in dictionaries) - and the ability to annotate and highlight books (and I haven't made notes in a book since I left college).

So for me a Kindle over my Sony would leave me with a Sony that is cluttered with a keyboard I don't need. But we all have our different perspectives, wants and needs, so not about to really question anyone else's choice.

Bob

But I don't think you can argue that it doesn't have more functionality. It's just functionality you personally do not want. I couldn't see buying a Sony because it didn't have dictionary, search, or annotation. I would've bought the Kindle without the wireless because I want a device that does more than just show me pages.

Have you actually used one "for real", as a matter of interest?

For me, an eInk display absolutely "wipes the floor" with any LCD screen, and I say that after reading on LCD screens for 20-odd years. I'd never go back to an LCD display for book reading.

Hi Ya Harry,

Actually, yeah I did have a chance, totally by accident, to compare a Sony 505 with the N800. But under indoor lighting even thought the lighting was very good and not dim at all. Here is the thread I posted about the experience:

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?p=171710#post171710

I WANT an eink based device for exactly the same reasons you mention. After 20+ years of LCD displays and heck the 5-years with my Compaq, ahem, portable with the built-in 9" green CRT by itself, the eyeballs surely could use a break. But right now for me personally, under the conditions I would normally read, eink is just not right for me. Next year, maybe, hopefully, this will change.

You know how it goes, early LCD were TEEEEEENY and super hard on the eyes. But as I mentioned for me my eyes don't like the eink displays...dang it anyway. I look at it this way, I get to save more to buy something super tricked out next year when some yet to be seen tech comes along to make the difference. ;)

[I]I don't have to look up words in a dictionary, and the ones I do from 18th and 19th century novels are rarely in dictionaries

Actually, Bob, the specific reason I so value my dictionary on my Gen3 is precisely because I do read exactly those novels, and want to look up the unfamiliar words. They certainly are present in my Unabridged Chambers Dictionary.

Hi there,

I'm new here, having only really thought about e-readers for the first time a few days ago. I was at Amazon looking for a book and watched the Kindle video and, although I'm not much given to impulse, immediately thought "I MUST HAVE THAT"! haha. In fact I can't remember the last time I was so smitten by something material. The E-ink technology, which I previously was oblivious to, is fantastic!

For the last few days I've been reading and researching and driving myself crazy with "should I, shouldn't I", and I've decided I should, but now am almost getting depressed over my inability to decide on which particular reader to get!
<snip>


I must say that my experience totally mirrors this... I was on Amazon to look for a book as a gift and was distracted by the Kindle ad on the opening page...only to find they sold out *the day before*
Jump ahead a few months of checking every few days on availability, geeked the net for other readers, tried to talk myself down, talked to a friend of mine who somehow managed to get one... finally stumbled across DearAuthor (http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/2007/06/20/a-better-ereader-from-bookeen/) and review of the CyBook - why had I not seen or HEARD of this thing before (and I'd been looking)!? Also got pointed to a snarky/funny comparison (http://www.thisistech.com/2008/03/01/cagematch/) between the Kindle and $ony eReader by a husband-wife team arguing over the merits of either... which made me think about <gasp>:eek: actually spending money on a $ony product... until I realized that they don't do MAC, so that ended that foray into madness. (I used to work in TV and consider $ony to be the epitome of the EVIL EMPIRE, esp. WRT designed obsolescence and [lack of] customer support - can you say BetaMAX capstan roller?:furious3:)

Aaaanyway, that led me to here, where I must say (as others have) how refreshing it is to find clear, cogent, non-flaming discussions and assistance - THANK YOU GUYS:thumbsup: Here I have spent the last few dozen hours pouring over post after post:dizzy2: deciding, re-deciding, trying to talk myself out of it, trying to decide if I wanted a dedicated reader, a UMPC/MID, or what (my Kindle-friend just got an EeePC, too).

I guess, for me, it boiled down to, do I *really* need wireless access? (plus I seem to be in the *only* non-coverage ["no guarantee of working inside a building"] area in the valley for AT&T & Sprint... which is why I don't have an iPhone <drool>:drool:)

I don't travel, do most of my reading at home (curled up in my fav chair), and usually just flip open my Mac PB (which now lives under said chair) to look up words I don't know, or to wiki or surf or whatever. The PB is nice, I spend hours on it as it is, but it gets really hot and needs to remain plugged into power (or be frequently charged), and is not too comfortable to read on (requires looking down just enough to make my head feel like it's going to snap off my neck) . Plus, as others have stated, I just can't see curling up with a keyboard-attached work-computer as relaxing. My Kindle-friend isn't too happy with the "3am download" feature (for newspaper and RSS) which requires the wireless to be on; she's gotten up several mornings after 1) forgetting to leave it on, or 2) with a run-down battery. Now she just surfs over to the actual websites and reads there.

Wow, this is getting long, so anyway decided the CyBook was the best fit (simply a reader) and have placed my order with NAEB and am waiting... barely contained :wacky:

Question: is it possible to unKindle an .AZW to get the cheaper version of newstuff? I've read that you can go the other way and deMOBI and fake .AZW? I've read, somewhere, that if you're outside the US (or coverage) you can buy Kindle-books and transfer them via USB. True? I've got Virtual PC (that I almost got rid of - no use for it) with Win2K and am, right now, attempting to install MobiReader, it keeps hanging at 90% (typical, IME) and hope that the USB will punch thru the OS'es when I get the device as I'd like to use the RSS feature thru MobiPocket (any comments on that feature?)

Anyway :thanks: to all you "guys" for all your posts and diligent effort, this is a [I]GREAT resource.

Matthew
P.S. Most Americans just list their states (or cities) b/c to us, it would be like saying "I'm from Europe" Plus, when I do travel, I like to refer to myself as a "Californian" rather than an "American" [no, I am not unPatriotic, just ashamed of recent past trends:shocked2:]

I have the Kindle and I love it....I am not familiar with the Cybook, but I did have a Sony and once I got the Kindle, I took the Sony back.

Question: is it possible to unKindle an .AZW to get the cheaper version of newstuff? I've read that you can go the other way and deMOBI and fake .AZW? I've read, somewhere, that if you're outside the US (or coverage) you can buy Kindle-books and transfer them via USB. True? I've got Virtual PC (that I almost got rid of - no use for it) with Win2K and am, right now, attempting to install MobiReader, it keeps hanging at 90% (typical, IME) and hope that the USB will punch thru the OS'es when I get the device as I'd like to use the RSS feature thru MobiPocket (any comments on that feature?)

1 - There's no legitimate way to remove the DRM from a secured .AZW file to use in another MobiPocket-enabled device. Non-secured .AZW files can be renamed to .mobi and be read in MobiPocket Reader -- and I presume could be read on a Cybook.

2 - Yes, you can order books from Amazon and download to the PC instead of having them sent through the EVDO network to the Kindle. Books on your PC can be transferred to the Kindle with the USB cable. But, you can't buy Kindle books if you don't have a Kindle registered to your Amazon account.

3 - I love using the RSS feed feature of MobiPocket Reader. It works wonderfully.

Question: is it possible to unKindle an .AZW to get the cheaper version of newstuff?

I find that Fictionwise.com often has quite good deals on the new stuff. Some of the new releases even come with a 100% micropay dicount (fictionwise $ to spend on future books). I take advantage of that discount tooo often. Booksonboard.com has really good prices on all thier books, including new releases.

I find that Fictionwise.com often has quite good deals on the new stuff. Some of the new releases even come with a 100% micropay dicount (fictionwise $ to spend on future books). I take advantage of that discount tooo often. Booksonboard.com has really good prices on all thier books, including new releases.

I always wondered, do you get those discounts if you pay with micropay?

BOb

I always wondered, do you get those discounts if you pay with micropay?

BOb

Most of the big rebates (50%, 100%) require you to use PayPal or CC for payment.

Most of the big rebates (50%, 100%) require you to use PayPal or CC for payment.

True. But the more "standard" rebates on other books are provided when using micropay.