I wrote and asked Bookeen support what the status of the upgrade was, and got a reply about 2 minutes later (!) as follows:


The software upgrade will be available very soon. It should be available on the first week of April.
We will announce it on the blog and we will add a support link on our
website.

Best regards,
Bookeen Support Team

Not sure if this is worth to be put on the front-page since we saw mails like that with various advertised release dates from bookeen over the past few months :-).

Anyway. Good luck to all of us that they keep their date this time.

It's just as worth being on the frontpage then Amazon's CEO saying they might possibly maybe get enough stock to someday sometime soonish to fill the backorders for the Kindle. :rofl:

I wrote and asked Bookeen support what the status of the upgrade was, and got a reply about 2 minutes later (!) as follows:

Oh, Bother! I was so looking forward to a firmware update. Now I'm depressed; I'll have to go to the 'fridge and scarf down a ton of 'comfort food' to console myself. :(

Drat you, Bookeen! Drat you to Heck!

Derek

Oh, Bother! I was so looking forward to a firmware update. Now I'm depressed; I'll have to go to the 'fridge and scarf down a ton of 'comfort food' to console myself. :(

Drat you, Bookeen! Drat you to Heck!

Derek
Just remember, you cannot blame Bookeen if you get fat.

:smack: Coulda had a V8.

Just remember, you cannot blame Bookeen if you get fat.

:smack: Coulda had a V8.


Sorry? WHAT did you say?!? I cannot blame Bookeen!?! *I* live in sunny (well, more like hazy right this minute), beautiful, liberal, litigious California! We can blame, sue and demand compensation from *ALL* the deep-pockets down the line of causality! :D :D :D

(Not that I would of course. I may live here, but I'm a Libertarian and not one of those sue-at-the-drop-of-a-hat types. :D )

Derek

Anyway. Good luck to all of us that they keep their date this time.

That's the problem with announced dates.

I'd just as soon they release it when it is ready, and not push it out the door to meet a deadline.

So we can probably expect it around the end of April.

These will be 'my' first upgrade :)
Gen3 came on friday.

For anyone that's considering buying a Cybook and is a little put off by the "GIV US FIRMWARE NOOOOWWWW!", then please bear in mind that generally speaking it's not an absolute necessity. The Cybook works fine at the moment, the firmware is for extra functionality and polish - and some minor bugs.

It's not like we're all sitting here with useless devices waiting for Bookeen to fix em.

Thanks to ProfJulie, I can at least read library ebooks. I had considered waiting for the update. Glad now that I didn't.:book2:

It's not like we're all sitting here with useless devices waiting for Bookeen to fix em.

Perfectly useful but the navigation is painfully slow if you have 100 or more books on it and I am becoming more and more irritated with the lack of page number or lack of a sense how much is left of a short story or a novel.

A just read a story in _a Logic Names Joe_ and the lack of page number was really irritating and I would also like page number in the TOC but that is probably impossible so i assume you have to jump to the next story to see how much you have left to read in the current story.

Perfectly useful but the navigation is painfully slow if you have 100 or more books on it and I am becoming more and more irritated with the lack of page number or lack of a sense how much is left of a short story or a novel.

A just read a story in _a Logic Names Joe_ and the lack of page number was really irritating and I would also like page number in the TOC but that is probably impossible so i assume you have to jump to the next story to see how much you have left to read in the current story.

Page numbers in an inline HTML TOC ? You'd need CSS3 for this.

Page numbers in an inline HTML TOC ? You'd need CSS3 for this.

Or a special MobiPocket format tag that are supported by the reader.

Thanks HarryT for following up with Bookeen and posting their response.

I think Bookeen must be close to final with this update and I hope the few extra days will result in a great update. Since I can read my library books now, I can wait. My Cybook is working quite well.

For anyone that's considering buying a Cybook and is a little put off by the "GIV US FIRMWARE NOOOOWWWW!", then please bear in mind that generally speaking it's not an absolute necessity. The Cybook works fine at the moment, the firmware is for extra functionality and polish - and some minor bugs.

It's not like we're all sitting here with useless devices waiting for Bookeen to fix em.

I agree. But, it would be nice to be able to use the "Trash Can" button when I'm done with book.

The Cybook has been rather interesting to use with my MacBook; I can drop and play both DRM'd and home grown mobipocket books. However, I'm having issues with Parallels and XP Pro SP2. Mobipocket does not want to
recognize the Cybook.

Suggestions?

Howard

Does anyone know, is this update supposed to fix the bookmarking bug? More times than not my Cybook does not take me back to the right spot in the book I am reading. This is incredibly annoying on books that don't have a TOC.

Does anyone know, is this update supposed to fix the bookmarking bug? More times than not my Cybook does not take me back to the right spot in the book I am reading. This is incredibly annoying on books that don't have a TOC.

I fixed this issue on my Cybook by not syncing books from the computer to the Cybook. I haven't encountered the bookmark problem again since I started copying my books directly to my storage card.

Does anyone know what features have been added or updated?

No. Wait and see - it's all part of the excitement! It would take all the fun out of it if we knew in advance what we were getting :).

I fixed this issue on my Cybook by not syncing books from the computer to the Cybook. I haven't encountered the bookmark problem again since I started copying my books directly to my storage card.

That bookmark bug is a funny one. I never had any trouble with it. I have my books in the main memory. But, indeed, I simply copy them there with the explorer.

It may be due to a faulty SD card. People have reported that using a different SD card solves the problem for them. I've never experienced it either.

Or a special MobiPocket format tag that are supported by the reader.

Those "special" tag is one of the wost thing about this format. I wish I could use the CSS page-break property instead of the Mobipocket page break for example.

For anyone that's considering buying a Cybook and is a little put off by the "GIV US FIRMWARE NOOOOWWWW!", then please bear in mind that generally speaking it's not an absolute necessity. The Cybook works fine at the moment, the firmware is for extra functionality and polish - and some minor bugs.

It's not like we're all sitting here with useless devices waiting for Bookeen to fix em.

Are you sure about it?
You know, after reading this forum for more than one year I grew to be a bit sceptical about some things.
For example:
HarryT was all over the moon about CyBook Gen3 dictionary support and how wonderful and useful thing it is and how cool and what a major drawback it is on a part of Sony not to support dictionaries.
Guess what I learned just a week ago in one of his comments? That until recently it had a small bug, really almost negligible. Nothing really serious, or to worry about - CyBook Gen3 would lock up after 3-4 word lookups in a dictionary.

So, IMHO polishing bugs is a lot more important than adding new features, although it is a lot better not to have bugs at all.

HarryT was all over the moon about CyBook Gen3 dictionary support and how wonderful and useful thing it is and how cool and what a major drawback it is on a part of Sony not to support dictionaries.
Guess what I learned just a week ago in one of his comments? That until recently it had a small bug, really almost negligible. Nothing really serious, or to worry about - CyBook Gen3 would lock up after 3-4 word lookups in a dictionary.


A bug which they've now fixed. Even WITH the bug, though, it was still a damned useful feature; a dictionary lookup which occasionally doesn't work is better than no dictionary lookup at all :).

I just ordered a Cybook, but I have to say that the amount of enthousiasm the announcement of a soon to be firmware update really is kinda telling about the machine. Most reviews comment on the "beta"-feel of the software on it, and this whole thread seems to underline that feeling.

Excitement! Finally! maybe now the product we paid a lot of money for will come out of beta! yeah!

A bug which they've now fixed. Even WITH the bug, though, it was still a damned useful feature; a dictionary lookup which occasionally doesn't work is better than no dictionary lookup at all :).

As the saying goes: to each its own.

If I paid £280 for a gadget and one of its the most important features would lock my reader every 3-4 words, I would go balistic! It is not as you say now: dictionary lookup ocasionally does not work - it locks up reader, at least that is what you said before. Lock up! Completely destroying a reading session atmosphere.

So, no. Thank you very much. I prefer to use a small encarta dictionary and have a non-bugged reader.

Let alone, that I would expect to hear about such bug from the moment it was discovered...but I am too honest and not a businessman though.

As the saying goes: to each its own.

If I paid £280 for a gadget and one of its the most important features would lock my reader every 3-4 words, I would go balistic! It is not as you say now: dictionary lookup ocasionally does not work - it locks up reader, at least that is what you said before. Lock up! Completely destroying a reading session atmosphere.


I am one of the first people who got the Cybook. So I'm working with the first version of the software and I never ever had any problems with my dictionary.

The only thing I need from the software update would be user definable buttons and perhaps a better folder support.

I am one of the first people who got the Cybook. So I'm working with the first version of the software and I never ever had any problems with my dictionary.

Well, HarryT said he had.
It is not a figment of my imagination :D

Well, HarryT said he had.
It is not a figment of my imagination :D

It happened with some dictionaries but not others.

I just ordered a Cybook, but I have to say that the amount of enthousiasm the announcement of a soon to be firmware update really is kinda telling about the machine. Most reviews comment on the "beta"-feel of the software on it, and this whole thread seems to underline that feeling.

Excitement! Finally! maybe now the product we paid a lot of money for will come out of beta! yeah!I don't think that's the case. The software does not feel like it's in beta status, it only has some minor problems (IMHO), like bad library navigation and lack of page numbers.

I don't think that's the case. The software does not feel like it's in beta status, it only hase some minor problems (IMHO), like bad library navigation and lack of page numbers.

The problem her is that there is two versions of the software. The first one had some show stopping bugs. The unannounced firmware update and also the firmware shipped in new devices seems to fix most of these issues but not all.

It happened with some dictionaries but not others.

So the problem is in the dictionary not in the reader. But it is true, the reader should not stop working when in encounters a problem..

So the problem is in the dictionary not in the reader. But it is true, the reader should not stop working when in encounters a problem..

There is no reason to think the problem is in the dictionary. If I would bet money I would guess it is in the reader. Sounds like the reader does not handle some cases properly. I do not believe the reader is tested as much as the dictionary.

I'm sure they tested the reader with some dictionaries, at least. Presumably, as you say, there was something in those particular dictionaries which the reader didn't handle correctly, resulting in a hangup or a reboot. From the sound of it, there's still something which it doesn't like in the Collins dictionary, resulting in a failure to find certain words.

I don't think that's the case. The software does not feel like it's in beta status, it only has some minor problems (IMHO), like bad library navigation and lack of page numbers.

Isn't the lack of page numbers rather an major annoyance though? It's the one thing that stops me from getting a Cybook over a Sony...

Any chance a firmware update will fix that?

I love my Cybook, and I agree with Rambler that the lack of page numbers are quite annoying

Isn't the lack of page numbers rather an major annoyance though? It's the one thing that stops me from getting a Cybook over a Sony...

Any chance a firmware update will fix that?

Yes I would like to have page numbers on my Cybook but it was even more annoying on my Sony that the page numbers for bookmarks were related to the font size so sometimes I wasn't sure which came first. This may have been unique to me since as the day goes on, my eye sight worsens and I increase the font size.

I liked my Sony. I love my Cybook.

Isn't the lack of page numbers rather an major annoyance though?

It depends on the person. I couldn'd care less. I have absolute no use for pagenumbers, it is a leftover from p-books. In e-books they change all the time when you modify font size of font type. The progress bar is good enough for me.

Isn't the lack of page numbers rather an major annoyance though? It's the one thing that stops me from getting a Cybook over a Sony...

Any chance a firmware update will fix that?

I really couldn't give a damn about them myself. There is a progress bar which shows you how far through the book you are, and you can also find out the total number of pages in the book (although this could be made a little easier to get at). Remember that you can load any font you wish onto the Gen3 (unlike the Sony), and view it at any of 12 different sizes. The page number would change with every combination of font and size - ie my page 100 wouldn't be the same as your page 100 in a given book.

I really couldn't give a damn about them myself. There is a progress bar which shows you how far through the book you are, and you can also find out the total number of pages in the book (although this could be made a little easier to get at)

The progress bar does not work for short stories in a collection. And since you cannot see the current page number it is very hard to get a feeling of how long the short story is. For me this is a major annoyance and not knowing the length makes the reading experience worse.

The progress bar does not seem to be reliable always. It does not always start at zero.

I just ordered a Cybook, but I have to say that the amount of enthousiasm the announcement of a soon to be firmware update really is kinda telling about the machine. Most reviews comment on the "beta"-feel of the software on it, and this whole thread seems to underline that feeling.

I think you're overstating that case a bit. Many of us are quite happy with the Gen 3 in its current state. I find that it performs its core functions very well.

The only thing I am missing, and that I would love to see in an upgrade ASAP, is folder support (or even better, implementation of "reading lists" as in the Mobipocket desktop/PDA software).

Isn't the lack of page numbers rather an major annoyance though?

Not at all. The progress bar tells me all I need to know.

Remember that you can load any font you wish onto the Gen3 (unlike the Sony), and view it at any of 12 different sizes. The page number would change with every combination of font and size - ie my page 100 wouldn't be the same as your page 100 in a given book.

I'd definitely like page numbers - my CyBook often forgets where it was when it's powered up, and bookmarks often disappear.
If I knew what the page number had been, it'd make it easier to find where I'd got to. (I was reading a 1000+ page novel recently, and it was a nightmare trying to home in on where I'd left off :angry:).
The fact that page numbers would alter with format isn't a problem , since I wouldn't be changing the format - so page numbers should stay consistent (more or less).

People can be "quite happy" with beta software as well. But when people are this excited about a new firmware, one can only wonder what exactly was wrong with the older one. As I said, I ordered one, and am planning to be very happy with it.

Having to upgrade software is one thing. But needing to upgrade hardware people paid 350 euros for is another. Obviously the first customers should have gotten this firmware to begin with. Actually the first customers should have gotten the firmware that will give us proper use of folders.

Most of us are just early adopters who don't mind to upgrade firmware on hardware or don't mind the occassional bug. As such we're cutting the Cybook a lot of slack. Also the other ereaders have problems of their own. As such I think the Cybook still is the best choice for most people wanting an ereader.

Anyway, I'll drop the negativity and share in the joy of anticipating the swift release of and upgrade to our machines. Now our Cybooks will be even better!
Hehe that doesn't sound very convincing, does it? But I genuinely am happy that they're still working on bettering the Cybook.

I wonder how much they are working on the software in term of hours per week. I get the feeling that if the system was open with an SDK we would have got a very good system now since the man hour people would have spent on this would have been a lot more than what Bookeen can afford to spend on it.

Well, you can always help in porting OpenInkpot :)

Having to upgrade software is one thing. But needing to upgrade hardware people paid 350 euros for is another. Obviously the first customers should have gotten this firmware to begin with.

And this view is based on how much practical use of the Gen3, exactly?

Really, with respect, I don't think you're in any position to disagree with the views of those of us who've been quite happily using the Gen3 for close to 6 months now. The current firmware is perfectly usable as it is. It is definitely NOT "beta" software in any way whatsoever.

As the saying goes: to each its own.

If I paid £280 for a gadget and one of its the most important features would lock my reader every 3-4 words, I would go balistic! It is not as you say now: dictionary lookup ocasionally does not work - it locks up reader, at least that is what you said before. Lock up! Completely destroying a reading session atmosphere.

So, no. Thank you very much. I prefer to use a small encarta dictionary and have a non-bugged reader.

Let alone, that I would expect to hear about such bug from the moment it was discovered...but I am too honest and not a businessman though.

I've used two different dictionaries on my Cybook ever since I got it in December and I look words up regularly. I've never experience any kind of hang ups or any other kind of issue with my dictionary usage. I think this must have been fixed a while ago or it was only an occasional quirk for a few people that has since been resolve.

The problem her is that there is two versions of the software. The first one had some show stopping bugs. The unannounced firmware update and also the firmware shipped in new devices seems to fix most of these issues but not all.

"show stopping bugs"? Really? I think not. The few bugs I encountered never stopped the show for me.....and never made me rethink my selection of the Cybook.

Have you got firmware v538, Julie? If so, you don't have the hang/reboot bug.

Have you got firmware v538, Julie? If so, you don't have the hang/reboot bug.

I only recently installed that version. I had the earlier version when I first got the Cybook in December.

Although I did have the bug with my Chambers dictionary (but I know that many other dictionaries worked fine), I didn't regard it as a "show stopper" either. It was a minor irritation, no more. Perhaps I'm just a tolerant person :).

Isn't the lack of page numbers rather an major annoyance though? It's the one thing that stops me from getting a Cybook over a Sony...

Any chance a firmware update will fix that?

The lack of page numbers drives me crazy! The Mobipocket Reader software has page numbers and you can use multiple fonts/sizes.:bookworm:

Johnny

I'd definitely like page numbers - my CyBook often forgets where it was when it's powered up, and bookmarks often disappear.
If I knew what the page number had been, it'd make it easier to find where I'd got to. (I was reading a 1000+ page novel recently, and it was a nightmare trying to home in on where I'd left off :angry:).
The fact that page numbers would alter with format isn't a problem , since I wouldn't be changing the format - so page numbers should stay consistent (more or less).
But would you actually take the time to look at the page number when you stopped reading and then be able to actually remember the page number when you wanted to continue? I have page numbers with my 505 and I have no idea what books are at what page numbers other then the ones I've not yet started to read.

The fact that page numbers would alter with format isn't a problem , since I wouldn't be changing the format - so page numbers should stay consistent (more or less).

I do, you see, so they'd be pretty useless to me. I constantly change the font size to suit lighting conditions, how tired I'm feeling, etc.

I do, you see, so they'd be pretty useless to me. I constantly change the font size to suit lighting conditions, how tired I'm feeling, etc.

ditto

This whole page number controversy is a hilarious. People, when you get a pBook you find multiple pages, so each one is assigned a number. When you get Cybook you get *EXACTLY* one page - the display - so no point dislpay page 1 of 1. Cybook is just another manifestation on your browser. Think of it as a digital printing press. Instead of a single book version you can produce any number of versions by changing attributes such as font type and size. Therefore just as browsers don't have page numbers so Cybook doesn't either. Instead it has a scroll/progress bar. Again, for the same reason why scroll bar is superior in a borwser it is also better in Cybook. The only software that actually does have page numbers is the one which is designed to produce output for physical pages, such as Word.

If I am really keen on seeing that stupid numbers (which doesn't happen very often) then I simly use the "Goto page" command that displays current page and total number of pages for current settings.

As for dictionary lookup ....
Frankly I had mine crash on bigger and more coplex PDF files. Not to mention HTML which I given up on. Of course it will crash on some things, being V1. What do you expect????? If you want a polished produce everyone knows *NOT* to get V1. The question is if the device is sufficiently functional and its core functions are reasonably trouble free. Thus far based on our experience (actual Cybook users) we are fairly happy.

That being said, we are all looking forward to an update. I just wonder if the update itself has serious flaws will it be easy to back out, to remove it?

That being said, we are all looking forward to an update. I just wonder if the update itself has serious flaws will it be easy to back out, to remove it?

If you have a copy of the v538 firmware file (as I do) I don't see why you shouldn't be able to go back.

If you have a copy of the v538 firmware file (as I do) I don't see why you shouldn't be able to go back.

Ummm... No. If the update firmware (which the build 538 does) has the erase-and-install setup, then you can do a full install. However, I've gone back through the updates I've received from Bookeen and most - four out of six - only had an install-changes update. The firmware was modified but not completely erased. The full-install updates tend to run more than 9MB in their zip file. The others run about 5MB.

Derek

I've used two different dictionaries on my Cybook ever since I got it in December and I look words up regularly. I've never experience any kind of hang ups or any other kind of issue with my dictionary usage. I think this must have been fixed a while ago or it was only an occasional quirk for a few people that has since been resolve.

Neither have I had hangups with 3 dictionaries. However, I do have to keep reminding myself that I'm using the Cybook and it has dictionaries, unlike my old Sony PRS-500.

But would you actually take the time to look at the page number when you stopped reading and then be able to actually remember the page number when you wanted to continue? I have page numbers with my 505 and I have no idea what books are at what page numbers other then the ones I've not yet started to read.


I only read one book at a time, so remembering the last page would be easy. The sheer frustration of having to find your place again after the CyBook forgets is a good incentive to make it a habit.
I'm not saying it'd work for everyone, but I think enough people would benefit from page numbers to make it a worthwhile option.

I only read one book at a time, so remembering the last page would be easy. The sheer frustration of having to find your place again after the CyBook forgets is a good incentive to make it a habit.
I'm not saying it'd work for everyone, but I think enough people would benefit from page numbers to make it a worthwhile option.

Isn't that what bookmarks are supposed to do?

And this view is based on how much practical use of the Gen3, exactly?


It's based on reading these forums and reading different reviews. I've never touched a Cybook, but that doesn't make my point of view wrong. Especially since it's based on the views of people who have used it.
It's obvious that you, HarryT, are a big fan of the Cybook, but even you seem thrilled about this new firmware. Why? Maybe because you know as well as I do that there are problems with older firmware. The fact that I ordered it even with knowledge of these problems shows that I have faith they can fix those and that they can be worked around.

Sorry, but you can't say there are no bugs in the older firmware. That is what they say they're gonna fix. So is it really that bad that I point out that older firmware has bugs and that I think for 350euro I don't think there should be ANY bugs, and it should at least have a working folder system. Both these points have little to nothing to do with me ever holding a cybook or not. They would be just as valid if I'd receive a model that has no problems whatsoever, because my experience doesn't mean that problems do not exist with the older firmware.

Julie,

Some users seem to have problems with bookmarks. I had 1-2 sessions when it simply stopped working. New bookmarks would not be made. I had to restart the device, hope that it would stay at the last page read (which it did) and then try bookmarks again, at which point it worked and I was fine. Recently I have had no problems. However, my sessions might be shorter.

This update we hope should fix such annoying bugs, like bookmarks not working sometimes. I can certainly see this as a cause of frustration if it were hapening a lot.

Julie,

Some users seem to have problems with bookmarks. I had 1-2 sessions when it simply stopped working. New bookmarks would not be made. I had to restart the device, hope that it would stay at the last page read (which it did) and then try bookmarks again, at which point it worked and I was fine. Recently I have had no problems. However, my sessions might be shorter.

This update we hope should fix such annoying bugs, like bookmarks not working sometimes. I can certainly see this as a cause of frustration if it were hapening a lot.

I was one of those users who had a problem with bookmarks. I resolved this issue by never syncing books to my Cybook. I copy all my books directly to my SD card and since then I have not encountered this bookmarking problem again. For ease of use, I don't store any books on the Cybooks memory, although I've been thinking about copying my dictionaries there......

...

Sorry, but you can't say there are no bugs in the older firmware. That is what they say they're gonna fix. So is it really that bad that I point out that older firmware has bugs and that I think for 350euro I don't think there should be ANY bugs, and it should at least have a working folder system. ....

Nobody claims there are no bugs in the current version. Most actual Cybook users seem to be noth bothered by them too much.

On what basis do you state that 350E ought to pay for a product with zero bugs? There are far more expensive products with version 1.0 having as much and more problems. How about that Heathrow Terminal 5. How much was that? How many bugs?

I look at this as bugs/issues that can/will be solved by a simple software update at some point, as opposed to others that won't (hardware). I have more patience and tolerance for software issues since they'll be fixed at no cost and I don't have to spend more money on another version. I just don't see those as a big deal.

Regarding having zero bugs from day 1, I cannot think of a single company that does that. Maybe Google that has a very long beta stage so they actual V1 is really good. Or Linux and similar software with a long and slower dev process that doesn't rush to V1. Otherwise all software and hardware tends to rush to V1 and has a lot of problems. So in that regard Cybook is no worse.

I was one of those users who had a problem with bookmarks. I resolved this issue by never syncing books to my Cybook. I copy all my books directly to my SD card and since then I have not encountered this bookmarking problem again. For ease of use, I don't store any books on the Cybooks memory, although I've been thinking about copying my dictionaries there......

Me too. I may have a few books hidden on SD card (prefix with a dot) which is a medium term reading list. However my library is on my computer, so my library view is no more than 2 pages. I too sync using Win explorer.

Again I am not sure what is all the fuss about. Certainly keeping a reference library of many books on this Cybook is hard. We'll need a new hardware to really improve library navigation.

It's based on reading these forums and reading different reviews. I've never touched a Cybook, but that doesn't make my point of view wrong. Especially since it's based on the views of people who have used it.
It's obvious that you, HarryT, are a big fan of the Cybook, but even you seem thrilled about this new firmware. Why? Maybe because you know as well as I do that there are problems with older firmware. The fact that I ordered it even with knowledge of these problems shows that I have faith they can fix those and that they can be worked around.

Sorry, but you can't say there are no bugs in the older firmware. That is what they say they're gonna fix. So is it really that bad that I point out that older firmware has bugs and that I think for 350euro I don't think there should be ANY bugs, and it should at least have a working folder system. Both these points have little to nothing to do with me ever holding a cybook or not. They would be just as valid if I'd receive a model that has no problems whatsoever, because my experience doesn't mean that problems do not exist with the older firmware.

When I am buying a new product, I seek out forums and information on the web to find out what could go wrong with the product. Many forums serve as arms of support to those who are encountering problems with a product. Most satisfied users don't make a point of seeking out a forum so they can post how happy and satisfied they are with a product. If you've been reading a lot of forum postings about the Cybook, you are getting a negatively biased view of it. Until you get the Cybook and see for yourself how it meets your needs, your opinion just does not carry much weight.

I am a Pocket PC enthusiast. When I first got my Cybook, I had to keep reminding myself that the Cybook is not a Pocket PC - I had to reset my expectations of this mobile device and stop myself from consciously (and unconsciously) comparing it to my Pocket PCs. Many of the complaints that I see here and on other forums are by people who have a mismatch of expectations. Pocket PC users complain about the limitations of Pocket PCs because they are comparing them to laptops; Cybook users complain about the limitations of the Cybook because they are comparing them to other mobile devices, like Pocket PCs, or because they are comparing them to books. The Cybook provides an entirely different user interface and one has to reset their expectations about it to gain a full appreciation of it. The Cybook does exactly what I got it for......it provides a comfortable and portable reading experience.

I am looking forward to Bookeen's update, not because I am unhappy with my Cybook or because the Cybook is an unstable device, but because I am looking forward to added functionality that will further my enjoyment of using the Cybook.

So is it really that bad that I point out that older firmware has bugs and that I think for 350euro I don't think there should be ANY bugs, and it should at least have a working folder system.

Dream on, little dreamer! There ain't no such animal for any price. At least not this side of heaven and I'm not so sure even there. Where there is computer hardware and software, there will always be bugs.

Also, pieter, keep in mind that many (maybe most) of us at Mobileread at techno-philes. Therefore an update to us is like mother's milk to a baby - we live for it. Think of the update as "value added" for your 350euro. More tech for your original investment.:thumbsup:

"show stopping bugs"? Really? I think not. The few bugs I encountered never stopped the show for me.....and never made me rethink my selection of the Cybook.

Some books you bought did not work. This is a show stopper since you cannot read the book.

I only read one book at a time, so remembering the last page would be easy. The sheer frustration of having to find your place again after the CyBook forgets is a good incentive to make it a habit.
I'm not saying it'd work for everyone, but I think enough people would benefit from page numbers to make it a worthwhile option.

If it were me, I would rather have them fix the bug where it doesn't remember the last page of every book automatically. I am so used to this on my PRS500. Heck, it even has page numbers.

BOb

This whole page number controversy is a hilarious. People, when you get a pBook you find multiple pages, so each one is assigned a number. When you get Cybook you get *EXACTLY* one page - the display - so no point dislpay page 1 of 1. Cybook is just another manifestation on your browser. Think of it as a digital printing press. Instead of a single book version you can produce any number of versions by changing attributes such as font type and size. Therefore just as browsers don't have page numbers so Cybook doesn't either. Instead it has a scroll/progress bar. Again, for the same reason why scroll bar is superior in a borwser it is also better in Cybook. The only software that actually does have page numbers is the one which is designed to produce output for physical pages, such as Word.


i think you are missing the main use of page number. It is to know how long the things is you are reading and knowing how much you have left to read. Reading a short story in a collection it is impossible to know how long the short story is which for me influence the experience very negatively.

Reading in a browser is as bad.

Some books you bought did not work. This is a show stopper since you cannot read the book.

Some of the books I bought? No, not me. Every book I've bought has worked just fine for me. The only books that did not work were ones I checked out of the library (that did not stop me from reading them), but that's now working beautifully on my Cybook.

For me page numbers are absolutely a must.
Cannot imagine reading a book without it.

i think you are missing the main use of page number. It is to know how long the things is you are reading and knowing how much you have left to read. Reading a short story in a collection it is impossible to know how long the short story is which for me influence the experience very negatively.

Reading in a browser is as bad.


And yet so many people aren't negatively influenced by that. For one thing, if it's a *short* story, there's nothing preventing you from paging through to find out how much farther you have to read - for that story. For another, you're supposed to be concentrating upon enjoying the story, not fretting over how many pages you have left in it. :smack:

I mean, yeah, each to his own tastes, but that is, in my opinion, a rather silly thing to aggravate over.

Derek

For me page numbers are absolutely a must.
Cannot imagine reading a book without it.

Why?

Really. Why?!?

Does not knowing somehow make the story less entertaining? Do the characters become lackluster if you can't tell which page you are on? Does the plot wither due to lack of numbering? Can you quantify the value added to a story by the page numbers? If you can, please post a spreadsheet with the values and formulas.

Derek

Some of the books I bought? No, not me. Every book I've bought has worked just fine for me. The only books that did not work were ones I checked out of the library (that did not stop me from reading them), but that's now working beautifully on my Cybook.

Wrong wording. You could buy books that did not work. Trying to open them crashed the Cybook. This was probably the most serious bug we have seen reported here.

And yet so many people aren't negatively influenced by that. For one thing, if it's a *short* story, there's nothing preventing you from paging through to find out how much farther you have to read - for that story. For another, you're supposed to be concentrating upon enjoying the story, not fretting over how many pages you have left in it. :smack:


You are reading a 200 page book and a 2000 page book in different ways with regard to interpreation of what you are reading. I find it very strange that these kind of knowledge does not affect how people read. If a short story is 4 pages or 40 pages will totally decide the strukture of the story and you need to have some hint about the structure to be able to read it properly.

It also seems like people only read for "enjoying the story" which is strange. A book is more than the story.

For me having (or not having) page numbers is not the issue or even important....but knowing how far through the book I am does have an influence on me while reading.

This is not something that is easy to quantify with a "spreadsheet with the values and formulas". Rather I find that there is an emotional reaction to the flow of the story. This is primarily evident when approaching the end of the book where there is an expectation that the author will (or needs to) begin wrapping up various loose ends of the plot. There is a build-up in anticipation that adds to the reading experience.

YMMV, but it does exist for some of us.

As long as I can tell how far into/through the book I am, I don't really care how the information is presented.....page numbers, percentage, slider, etc.

-Jeff

As long as I can tell how far into/through the book I am, I don't really care how the information is presented.....page numbers, percentage, slider, etc.


But 900 pages read of a total of 1000 is rather different from 90 pages read of a total of 100 so you need the total number of pages also. But I totally agree that your exectations add to the reading experience in a positive way.

You are reading a 200 page book and a 2000 page book in different ways with regard to interpreation of what you are reading. I find it very strange that these kind of knowledge does not affect how people read. If a short story is 4 pages or 40 pages will totally decide the strukture of the story and you need to have some hint about the structure to be able to read it properly.

It also seems like people only read for "enjoying the story" which is strange. A book is more than the story.

Hunh?!? Clearly we have discovered your 'true identity'! You, my good sir, are a literary critic for the New York Times!

I think I can speak for many readers here. No, I do NOT determine how to 'appreciate' or 'interpret' a given book based upon its length. I don't go into a store and pick up two new books by a given author and say to myself, "Hey. Book #1 is only 173 pages long so I'll have to interpret, process, understand and enjoy it differently than Book #2 which is 327 pages long!"

Wow. By that I mean, whatinsamhell have you been tok- smoking? And where can I get some? :)

All sarcasm aside, the value of a story, to me, resides in its entertainment value, not in the physical metrics of the story. IMO, entertainment value is determined by such things as characterization, plot, scenery, dialog, motivation. Yes, proper syntax and grammar have a role, but if I'm analyzing page count, paragraph structure and paper quality, then I've just wasted the entire cost of the book. That would be, IMHO, like determining that John Ringo's latest "Paladin of Shadows" novel isn't any good because the LCD in my Dell Axim put more eyestrain on me than the Cybook's e-ink display.

Derek

But 900 pages read of a total of 1000 is rather different from 90 pages read of a total of 100 so you need the total number of pages also. But I totally agree that your exectations add to the reading experience in a positive way.

Says who!?! It's still 90% of the story.

Furthermore, I've read some 100-page novels which had me begging for more and some 1,000-page opuses which left me sickened by the waste of time. And the reverse is true for other stories. But in no case did I view length-qua-length as the determining factor. Rather, it was the storytelling methods used. Filling 100, 200 or more pages with lifeless, unimaginative, repetitious and dense, non-descriptive prose kills a story for me. But those same 100 or more pages packed with vivid descriptions of scenery and character motivation as well as action, thought and dialog can force me into a state where I am less 'reading' the story than I am 'imagining' it-where I literally step into the author's world.

Derek

Says who!?! It's still 90% of the story.


No, it is not. The story is not mapped linearly to the page number.

But if you have not noticed that stories of different length are usually structured differently then I do not know what to say since I find that so absurd.

No, it is not. The story is not mapped linearly to the page number.

But if you have not noticed that stories of different length are usually structured differently then I do not know what to say since I find that so absurd.

Oh, I've noticed, when I deign to bother. But that metric isn't even remotely relevant to my enjoyment of a novel. All that is relevant is whether I get absorbed enough to imagine myself in that world.

If the author concentrates upon words or sentence, paragraph and chapter structure which inhibits my ability to 'transcend the page', then I won't bother finishing the story and I won't bother buying another book from the author. Any author that forces me to be more concerned over his technique, his mechanics, his 'Wow! Look at me forcing a new "style"!' is an author who doesn't really write fiction.

Derek

Still seems to me that at least some folks are trying to apply a very measurable set of criteria to this. I do not believe that you can simply say that 90% of a (p)book that is 100 pages in length is different than one that is 1000 pages in length. It's not that easy. It depends on the author's pacing of the story.

By the time I get near the end of a book, that pacing guides my expectation...not the exact page count. That's why for me any of the pages-to-be-read measures works....for me.

-Jeff

On the subject of Cybook software being beta when released:

I got my Cybok in November, in first batch. It has the earliest released 1.0 software. I installed two dictionaries on it, and they work fine, finding everything that's in them. It never crashed for me without reason, and I read about a book a day. It crashed a few times when I tried to open PDFs with big images inside, that's all. I never had filesystem corruption either, and I mounted both internal Cybook space and SD card through Cybook on Win XP and Mac. I didn't update to newer firmware as that might make something actually start crashing for me...

So it's not like the "beta" is crashing for everyone - maybe it just seems so because the people who have problems with it post here. And it may be just a small number of people out of those 10 thousand who have problems.

Wow, I had no idea that other people were having so many issues with their Cybook. I have had mine for about a month now and I have never had the dictionary not work, or the progress bar, or any of the other issues that have been presented in this thread. I think it is something the user is doing and not the machine.

As far as features go, I would like a folder system, a way to manage book marks, and the ability to move up/down and left/right when I am navigating through hot links (such as those found in the bible) and I would like the ability to look up phrases and words in a book for study purposes. Other than that I think the Cybook works just fine.

So it's not like the "beta" is crashing for everyone - maybe it just seems so because the people who have problems with it post here. And it may be just a small number of people out of those 10 thousand who have problems.

A beta should not crash. Traditionally a beta release is something that has been tested and is near a real release. And I would say that the number of bugs found and the range of the severity was consistent with a typical beta release.

i think you are missing the main use of page number. It is to know how long the things is you are reading and knowing how much you have left to read. Reading a short story in a collection it is impossible to know how long the short story is which for me influence the experience very negatively.

Reading in a browser is as bad.

Both text and MobiPocket modes display a progress bar at the bottom that conveys 2 attributes:
- the current page position in the overall text is marked by the solid bar
- the total content length is marked by the empty rectangle which is the full display width

A pBook similarly conveys the current position by a page number and the total length by the final page's number. The *ONLY* difference are units. The progress bar unit is a pixel that represents a certain number of lines of text as opposed to pages. The difference for me is minor.

Now, I select ""Go To..." then " "Page..." and I get the total number of pages, in my case I have 1339. So now I know the empty rectangle represents 1339 pages and my progress bas is around 40% mark, so about page 535.
Well that is good enough for me. I get all the information I could possibly want.

Besides, when I am looking at the page number or progress indicator too much then I know I should discard the book as I don't really like it.

I think we will all just agree to disagree because after 6 pages, nobody is going to be changing their opinions. Yes, the software is not perfect, ad yes, the software release schedule is not what we had hoped. But these things are out of our hands, so all we can do is sit, wait, and see what the next firmware release will bring before we start revolting. The current software works well enough, but it can be better. And if this firmware is a disappointment, I will definitely be angered enough to support any kind of collective outcry.

...Rather I find that there is an emotional reaction to the flow of the story. This is primarily evident when approaching the end of the book where there is an expectation that the author will (or needs to) begin wrapping up various loose ends of the plot. There is a build-up in anticipation that adds to the reading experience.

YMMV, but it does exist for some of us.

As long as I can tell how far into/through the book I am, I don't really care how the information is presented.....page numbers, percentage, slider, etc.

-Jeff

And that is my point. The progress bar is perfectly fine without page numbers.

As for the original point, it is not always the case. I read a book where the main plot was sort of closed, but several new ones were opened right at the end. I didn't know if a sequel was being made or not. Clearly the author decided to have more books to follow. So you don't always know what if anything shall be resolved towards the end.

But 900 pages read of a total of 1000 is rather different from 90 pages read of a total of 100 so you need the total number of pages also. But I totally agree that your exectations add to the reading experience in a positive way.

Menu - Go To selection will give you the total.
Besides after reading 90 or 900 pages you should have a fairly good idea of the total length. In fact right from the starts simply by observing progress of the position bar you get a good feel for the total length, as in short/medium/long book. Again, the exact number of pages is never important.

Isn't that what bookmarks are supposed to do?
Some people are having issues with bookmarks which is why they want page numbers. But if the next firmware fixes the bookmarks then there really is no need for page numbers.

Ralob,
These kinds of comments are really annoying.
If you found "the software is not perfect" yet at the same time "current software works well enough" then why would a new "firmware is a disappointment" be cause for "collective outcry"?????? Does that imply that the current software is a "disappointment" as well even though it "works well enough"? Does it mean that you expected an update sooner that would make this software/device almost perfect?

Sounds to me you and the minority have very high expectations. You should simply forget about Cybook and look at iRex Iliad and other more expensive devices. You only get so much for the money you pay. A perfect device having perfect software costs. Cybook *NEVER* had such goals. Like most other eReader makers they made certain compromises. Software clearly took the back seat as they pushed hardware design to get the device out sooner.

Frankly there are times when I wait for version 1.3 or even 2 of something new to let others deal with the initial problems. You want to see problems and hassles of a brand new tek, just go look at iRobot cleaner bots. Some problems actually reappeared in a newer gen.

The bottom line is pay more money for a higher end device that will meet all you expectation, or wait for Cybook V3 that should have 99% of the issues resolved by then. You simply won't get a problem free V1 device for cheap.

Says who!?! It's still 90% of the story.

Furthermore, I've read some 100-page novels which had me begging for more and some 1,000-page opuses which left me sickened by the waste of time. And the reverse is true for other stories. But in no case did I view length-qua-length as the determining factor. Rather, it was the storytelling methods used. Filling 100, 200 or more pages with lifeless, unimaginative, repetitious and dense, non-descriptive prose kills a story for me. But those same 100 or more pages packed with vivid descriptions of scenery and character motivation as well as action, thought and dialog can force me into a state where I am less 'reading' the story than I am 'imagining' it-where I literally step into the author's world.

Derek
Have you ever read Battlefield Earth by L. Ron Hubbard? I read it because a friend recommended it to me. The real problem with it was that it looked like it could have ended in a number of different places and that Hubbard just kept taking on mare words that had no real baring on the story.

Question... without page numbers, how does the Gen3 handle going to a specific part of the book?

Have you ever read Battlefield Earth by L. Ron Hubbard? I read it because a friend recommended it to me. The real problem with it was that it looked like it could have ended in a number of different places and that Hubbard just kept taking on mare words that had no real baring on the story.


On that book you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! And the very FIRST go/throw point was Page 1, Paragraph 1, Word 1!!! :D

Derek

Question... without page numbers, how does the Gen3 handle going to a specific part of the book?


Alright already! [Grumble. Grumble. Grumble.]

One goes to the 'Go To' menu choice and when that choice's dialog appears, one selects 'Page...'. That causes a numeric-grid dialog box to appear. That dialog box clearly shows the total number of pages. The only beef I have with it is that when it first pops up, it does not show the current page number.

Derek

P.S. RTFM (Research The Flipping Menus)

Ralob,
These kinds of comments are really annoying.
If you found "the software is not perfect" yet at the same time "current software works well enough" then why would a new "firmware is a disappointment" be cause for "collective outcry"?????? Does that imply that the current software is a "disappointment" as well even though it "works well enough"? Does it mean that you expected an update sooner that would make this software/device almost perfect?


You find the type of post I made annoying? Guess I better cry myself to sleep tonight.

I meant that the whole idea that the software being "beta" is not accurate in my opinion. It is usable, has no show-stopping bugs, and is reasonably stable (for me). And if you read my statement before, you will obviously see that I said there is room for improvement. It is what I would call "average". The CyBook is still somewhat new to the market, so I would not call the current firmware a "disappointment" as it was released some time ago. I feel it does need to be updated.

And no, firmware updates will never make the device perfect. No device is perfect regardless of how much money you spend.

As for the "outcry". I will be mad if folder support is not added when it is clearly important to most users. It is not imperative for the software to work, but it would make things so much easier. I will not return my device if it is not fixed this week, but I will question Bookeen as to whether or not there is an ETA for it.

And yes, I expected an update sooner.

. . .

As for the "outcry". I will be mad if folder support is not added when it is clearly important to most users. It is not imperative for the software to work, but it would make things so much easier. I will not return my device if it is not fixed this week, but I will question Bookeen as to whether or not there is an ETA for it.

And yes, I expected an update sooner.

"Sooner"??? I expected the update on March 1st! Didn't happen. Now I'm just circling, circling, circling the drain.......
:(

Derek

As for the "outcry". I will be mad if folder support is not added when it is clearly important to most users.

It may be important to most users on this forum but we are not representative of "typical" eBook user - people who seek out a forum such as this are, almost by definition, eBook enthusiasts.

You don't honestly think that there's no folder view because Bookeen couldn't implement one, do you, or that it's just a coincidence that no eBook reader (other than the iLiad, which is rather a different type of device) has them?

The reason that folders aren't supported is almost without doubt because the market research that these companies do shows them that the typical "non-expert" user gets confused by folders, and loses things put in them.

I'll be happy to see folders if we get them, but I completely understand why it is that we DON'T have them in the current firmware.

It may be important to most users on this forum The reason that folders aren't supported is almost without doubt because the market research that these companies do shows them that the typical "non-expert" user gets confused by folders, and loses things put in them.

I'll be happy to see folders if we get them, but I completely understand why it is that we DON'T have them in the current firmware.

I agree, if you go to www.mobipocket.com en check out the 'big' reader for windows, you can see they have no folder support at all. It is even worse than on the cybook. If you put a book in a subfolder from your main folder the books won't be visible in the library. On the cybook they do show up when you use subfolders. You can even use it as a primitive "sort on author"

The Windows reader does have the option to select and sort on various things like subject, title and author. That makes life better.

If you read the mobipocket forum you can see that people are asking for folders for years now. The response is alway: Use the library software and you do not need folders.

I think the best we can hope for is a better search/sort/select mechanism.

Alright already! [Grumble. Grumble. Grumble.]

One goes to the 'Go To' menu choice and when that choice's dialog appears, one selects 'Page...'. That causes a numeric-grid dialog box to appear. That dialog box clearly shows the total number of pages. The only beef I have with it is that when it first pops up, it does not show the current page number.

Derek

P.S. RTFM (Research The Flipping Menus)
Given that the progress bar does not show page numbers, how do you know what page number it is you might want?

Given that the progress bar does not show page numbers, how do you know what page number it is you might want?

The same way I do it in a p-book.

I was somewere in the middle, total size is 700 pages, so it must be around 350. Hmmmm...I already read this part, so it must be 50 higher...Aha...that is new. So it must be 25 lower. Aha...read that part. I'n within 25 pages now, on the avarage 12. Page forward from here

Software clearly took the back seat as they pushed hardware design to get the device out sooner.


But Bookeen has not done the hardware design and they have not written the operating system. The only thing they have done is written or licensed the application software.

Expecting bug free software is unrealistic. But it is not unrealistic to expect working navigation if you have a couple of hundreds books on the device.

Have you ever read Battlefield Earth by L. Ron Hubbard? I read it because a friend recommended it to me. The real problem with it was that it looked like it could have ended in a number of different places and that Hubbard just kept taking on mare words that had no real baring on the story.

For me it ended after half the book. I just refused to read more. One of the few books I have not finished.

Some people are having issues with bookmarks which is why they want page numbers. But if the next firmware fixes the bookmarks then there really is no need for page numbers.

Do not claim this as a general truth. I need page number for many other reasons.

The same way I do it in a p-book.

I was somewere in the middle, total size is 700 pages, so it must be around 350. Hmmmm...I already read this part, so it must be 50 higher...Aha...that is new. So it must be 25 lower. Aha...read that part. I'n within 25 pages now, on the avarage 12. Page forward from here

Except that the page forward is so slow that this method is not working. I actually notice page number when I read and remember some of them.

Do not claim this as a general truth. I need page number for many other reasons.

Although CyBook looks like a nice alternative to Sony, I will not consider it(well its next generation brother) at all unless they implement as clear page numbering as Sony does atm. I really envy you guys who can do without page numbers.

Except that the page forward is so slow that this method is not working. I actually notice page number when I read and remember some of them.

Ok, add one stap more



I was somewere in the middle, total size is 700 pages, so it must be around 350. Hmmmm...I already read this part, so it must be 50 higher...Aha...that is new. So it must be 25 lower. Aha...read that part. I'n within 25 pages now, on the avarage 12. Page forward from here

Do not page forward from her, but increase with 12 and you are on an average of 6 pages from the correct one.

Page forward slow? It takes 0.75 second to switch a page. Add 0.2 seconds for the reaction time of the average human beeing. So you can turn a page about every second. Not much slower tha a p-book. But it means that even if you have to page forward 12 pages, you will find your page in about 15 seconds.

And even if you saw a page number a couple of minutes ago, you stil have the same procedure. Only you won't start at my 'educated' guess of 350 but at the 362 you have seen. That one is almost certainly to low, so you'll have to increase with 50 and follow the same procedure.

The trick with this binary search is that it really doesn't matter were you start. If, in my example, I didn't had a clue were to start, and made the stupid choice to begin at 690, the next step would have been 345, followed by 520 followed bij 430, 380 and so on. The numbers don't have to be exact, the only thing you have to do is split the difference until you are close enough. The difference between the last known number methode and the worst case is probably two guesses. The difference between the last known number and an educated guess is maximum one itteration and probably no difference at all.

I really envy you guys who can do without page numbers.

I can do without them because they are meaningless numbers. If we talk about a book and I tell you I read something of importance on page 234, you almost certainly cannot find it on your reader because you have a different font size/type. And even if you come to my house to look it up, there is a big chance that it won't be on the same page anymore on my reader because first I was reading in my garden were the sun was shining and I changed the font size just before you arrived in the evening

The only more or less usefull number would be: Look at 45.56% of your book. That number won't change.

Something not mentioned about page numbers (AFAIK): it gives you an extra way to put a value on a book, like "Wow! This is great, but it's only 200 pages, so I should cherish each and every page (word even)!".

Next to that it gives you a way to plan your bookreading; sometimes it happens that you know beforehand that you won't have much time to do serious reading in the next few weeks; you shouldn't start in a 1000+ page story, it would decrease the value you get from reading it, because it will be so very fragmented. It's perfectly OK however, to read a 200 page story in the same time because you'll easily finish it :)

...you could compare it to eating in a restaurant: if you've got time (and money) go eat in a fancy restaurant and order a 7-course meal. And go for a single course fish&chips if you haven't got time. Both meals are perfectly enjoyable and for both meals you should know beforehand how much time (=pages) you've got to choose the right one...

So for me, I would really like to have page numbers, including total page count. On screen. Not in the clumsy menus...

Question... without page numbers, how does the Gen3 handle going to a specific part of the book?

Well it does have page numbers, except they are not displayed. It has a "Go to..." menu item wherein you type a page number to jump to. That screen actually displays the total number of pages, so clearly is aware of current page number and total, etc.

Something not mentioned about page numbers (AFAIK): it gives you an extra way to put a value on a book, like "Wow! This is great, but it's only 200 pages, so I should cherish each and every page (word even)!".

Next to that it gives you a way to plan your bookreading; sometimes it happens that you know beforehand that you won't have much time to do serious reading in the next few weeks; you shouldn't start in a 1000+ page story, it would decrease the value you get from reading it, because it will be so very fragmented. It's perfectly OK however, to read a 200 page story in the same time because you'll easily finish it :)

...you could compare it to eating in a restaurant: if you've got time (and money) go eat in a fancy restaurant and order a 7-course meal. And go for a single course fish&chips if you haven't got time. Both meals are perfectly enjoyable and for both meals should should know beforehand how much time (=pages) you've got to choose the right one...

So for me, I would really like to have page numbers, including total page count. On screen. Not in the clumsy menus...

Exactly!

And sometimes you need to plan your reading because you have to finish a book or a set of stories before a specific time point or before a specific day.

So there are several recurring issues:
- missing page numbers
- missing folders
-missing search

etc.

I don't know about you, but I was aware from reading this site that both Cybook and others have fairly limited features for organization of many books and searching/navigating them. Thus my expectations were adjusted a long time *BEFORE* making a decision to buy Cybook. I knew that folders would be delayed and effective navigation (mainly decent search feature) might never be available in this hardware. Yes, it is a defficiency.

If these features are very important to you then don't get this Cybook device. Simple as that. It is too early. Wait for Gen4 or Gen5, or whatever future version adds better navigational/organizational capabilities. I am sure at some point it will get a keyboard of some sort (maybe external). Then you'll be able to type search queries, organize folders, etc.

My point is that expectations are too high for Gen3.

As for it being a simple bundle of Linux and a few reader programs ....
We all know how buggy computer software can be. Too often we are fighting some bug that is causing crashes, etc. These folks had to not only bundle this software together but also make sure it doesn't crash every 5 minutes. You'd be surprised how difficult it can be. Granted they have a small set of programs, Linux, few readers and maybe some device drivers for SD cards. Not too much. Still the epxectations for a device like these in terms of stability are far higher than for a general purpose computer.

...you could compare it to eating in a restaurant: if you've got time (and money) go eat in a fancy restaurant and order a 7-course meal. And go for a single course fish&chips if you haven't got time. Both meals are perfectly enjoyable and for both meals you should know beforehand how much time (=pages) you've got to choose the right one...


The only problem is that the 7 course meal you had last week was so much you had to stop eating between courses and it took you 7 hours to eat. Your really found the third course outstanding. Great value for money.

And when I go there today on your recomendation they have a five course meal and I can't find course 3 that you liked so very much. Only because they decided to change the layout of the menu and printed it in another font. But basically I get the same food so it will not take me five hours to eat, but still the same seven hours it took you. And course three is combined with course four. Still great value for money.

And when I go there today on your recomendation they have a five course meal and I can't find course 3 that you liked so very much. Only because they decided to change the layout of the menu and printed it in another font. But basically I get the same food so it will not take me five hours to eat, but still the same seven hours it took you. And course three is combined with course four. Still great value for money.

It's clear that the page count depends on font size, so it will be difficult to compare page counts between e-readers of different people. For my own personal reader however... I keep going back to one specific font in one specific size (I won't mention it, it would only spawn a different discussion ;)), so comparing book sizes for my own books is completely feasible.

I can do without them because they are meaningless numbers. If we talk about a book and I tell you I read something of importance on page 234, you almost certainly cannot find it on your reader because you have a different font size/type. And even if you come to my house to look it up, there is a big chance that it won't be on the same page anymore on my reader because first I was reading in my garden were the sun was shining and I changed the font size just before you arrived in the evening

The only more or less usefull number would be: Look at 45.56% of your book. That number won't change.

I need page numbers for my personal use, not to share it with friends :rolleyes:

It's clear that the page count depends on font size, so it will be difficult to compare page counts between e-readers of different people. For my own personal reader however... I keep going back to one specific font in one specific size (I won't mention it, it would only spawn a different discussion ;)), so comparing book sizes for my own books is completely feasible.

Exactly right on the last point! For people who stick with the same format, page numbers would be a boon.

And is comparing different counts difficult?
In the unlikely event you did want to share it with someone else, all you need do is say it was page 357 out of 970 in your format - and they can easily figure out it's page 252 out of 684 in theirs.

In the unlikely event you did want to share it with someone else, all you need do is say it was page 357 out of 970 in your format - and they can easily figure out it's page 252 out of 684 in theirs.

There is a name for that system, it is called percentage :)

All you have to do is measure the length of your progress bar, and tell your friends "I'm 56mm through the book". That measurement will be independent of the font and size used :).

All you have to do is measure the length of your progress bar, and tell your friends "I'm 56mm through the book". That measurement will be independent of the font and size used :).

They'll think you're half way through the first sentence! :laugh4:

I'm curious to know who'll load the new firmware asap.
(I plan on being one of the penguins near the back, who'll have a reasonable idea just how many leopard seals there are in the icy depths before I dive in.)

Having already upgraded from v476 to v538 with no problems, I plan to upgrade immediately the new version is available.

Given that the progress bar does not show page numbers, how do you know what page number it is you might want?

By guess! By gosh! By golly! :D :D :D

Derek

But Bookeen has not done the hardware design and they have not written the operating system. The only thing they have done is written or licensed the application software.

Expecting bug free software is unrealistic. But it is not unrealistic to expect working navigation if you have a couple of hundreds books on the device.

Which is why I'm beginning to learn to accept the FBReader GUI on my WinXP machine. Of course, if someone (who's a better programmer than I) were to add PC1 decryption support to FBReader, I wouldn't have to resort to those standalone Python apps to remove DRM from my purchased Mobi ebooks. (Hint. Hint. :) :) ) I'm not saying that FBReader has the best folder navigation interface, but at least it has something!

Derek

Something not mentioned about page numbers (AFAIK): it gives you an extra way to put a value on a book, like "Wow! This is great, but it's only 200 pages, so I should cherish each and every page (word even)!".

Next to that it gives you a way to plan your bookreading; sometimes it happens that you know beforehand that you won't have much time to do serious reading in the next few weeks; you shouldn't start in a 1000+ page story, it would decrease the value you get from reading it, because it will be so very fragmented. It's perfectly OK however, to read a 200 page story in the same time because you'll easily finish it :)

...you could compare it to eating in a restaurant: if you've got time (and money) go eat in a fancy restaurant and order a 7-course meal. And go for a single course fish&chips if you haven't got time. Both meals are perfectly enjoyable and for both meals you should know beforehand how much time (=pages) you've got to choose the right one...

So for me, I would really like to have page numbers, including total page count. On screen. Not in the clumsy menus...

Well, DUH! Those thought patterns could just as easily go:

"Wow! You really ought to read this ebook! It's only 250 kilobytes in size!"

or

"I'm going in for life-preserving surgery where I have a 39% chance of dying on the operating table. I think I'd be better off skipping this 1.49MB opus in favor of these five 300KB quickies."

Works for me. :D :D: :D

Derek

They'll think you're half way through the first sentence! :laugh4:

I'm curious to know who'll load the new firmware asap.
(I plan on being one of the penguins near the back, who'll have a reasonable idea just how many leopard seals there are in the icy depths before I dive in.)

Having done the 0.91 -> 0.95, the 0.95 -> 0.98, 0.98 -> 1.0 version <400, that -> build476 and thence to build 538 - let's just say that I have NO problem with throwing myself on that steel pineapple rolling at my feet. :D

Derek

I don't know about you, but I was aware from reading this site that both Cybook and others have fairly limited features for organization of many books and searching/navigating them. Thus my expectations were adjusted a long time *BEFORE* making a decision to buy Cybook. I knew that folders would be delayed and effective navigation (mainly decent search feature) might never be available in this hardware. Yes, it is a defficiency.


Of course you cannot count ongetting things not originally in the produce. The expectations here are from a blog entry saying they are thinking/working on folders and it will be available in a next firmware release. If this means a release three years from now then it is kind of misleading.

You don't honestly think that there's no folder view because Bookeen couldn't implement one, do you, or that it's just a coincidence that no eBook reader (other than the iLiad, which is rather a different type of device) has them?

The reason that folders aren't supported is almost without doubt because the market research that these companies do shows them that the typical "non-expert" user gets confused by folders, and loses things put in them.

I can't buy the fact that folders are too complex for any Cybook user. They are a basic feature of any OS. And as for people losing things in them, the default library mode could show books from all subfolders (as is now done) and an option allowed for viewing only the current folder.

Anyway, I'd rather see support for a tag or reading list system. The Mobipocket software on the desktop and PDA's has them, and I actually find them to be more useful than folders, as I can have a book appear in more than one list simultaneously (this would work with folders if links were supported, but that is more complex for the typical user).

But I'll welcome any improved means of dealing with larger libraries.

I can't buy the fact that folders are too complex for any Cybook user. They are a basic feature of any OS.

You've obviously never worked in any kind of support department. I run my own software business and directly support people using my software. Believe me, the people who lose things in folders are the "advanced" users. It's the ones that you have to try and teach how to use a scrollbar that are the problem. I'm not joking!

The reason Microsoft stuck a "My Documents" folder in Windows and made it the default save location was precisely to deal with this kind of user. Nowadays, you just end up with a million files in "My Documents". In the old days, people used to stick everything in the root, which was a lot worse.

Hunh?!? Clearly we have discovered your 'true identity'! You, my good sir, are a literary critic for the New York Times!

I think I can speak for many readers here. No, I do NOT determine how to 'appreciate' or 'interpret' a given book based upon its length. I don't go into a store and pick up two new books by a given author and say to myself, "Hey. Book #1 is only 173 pages long so I'll have to interpret, process, understand and enjoy it differently than Book #2 which is 327 pages long!"



Derek,
I actually read a pbook that was very popular (Lonesome Dove) that had it been even 2 or 3 times longer, I would have quit reading long before I did. Up until the last chapter, I keep thinking - "This book has potential. Maybe it really get somewhere." For me, it never did. It just stopped. Had it been longer I would not have read past the "original" first 25%.

Of course this example didn't require actual page numbers. I would have been just as happy with a percent number.

Where numbers are needed with the lack of search capability is, as some have pointed out, when you lose your place and must search for it. Yes you can get "close" (and I leave the definition of "close" totally open) with the already included visual scale. However without numbers "close" has larger margins of error.

Besides, I like numbers & .PRC on my Palm TX has both a visual scale & numbers so it shouldn't be too hard to implement on the Cybook.

I actually read a pbook that was very popular (Lonesome Dove) that had it been even 2 or 3 times longer, I would have quit reading long before I did. Up until the last chapter, I keep thinking - "This book has potential. Maybe it really get somewhere." For me, it never did. It just stopped. Had it been longer I would not have read past the "original" first 25%.

That really proves how we all have different tastes. I loved Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove, it's one of my favourites. But I hated Aldous Huxley's Brave New World and found the writing style irritating and repetitive.

The one thing I wish for in the Cybook is to be able to read when the battery is re-charging.

Derek,
I actually read a pbook that was very popular (Lonesome Dove) that had it been even 2 or 3 times longer, I would have quit reading long before I did. Up until the last chapter, I keep thinking - "This book has potential. Maybe it really get somewhere." For me, it never did. It just stopped. Had it been longer I would not have read past the "original" first 25%.

Of course this example didn't require actual page numbers. I would have been just as happy with a percent number.

Where numbers are needed with the lack of search capability is, as some have pointed out, when you lose your place and must search for it. Yes you can get "close" (and I leave the definition of "close" totally open) with the already included visual scale. However without numbers "close" has larger margins of error.

Besides, I like numbers & .PRC on my Palm TX has both a visual scale & numbers so it shouldn't be too hard to implement on the Cybook.

I see. You clearly have no appreciation for the 'finer things in life'! :D (So states a "Lonesome Dove" devotee. :) ) Yes, I've not only read LD, but the other novels in the series - although I haven't gone so far as to dress and talk like my fave characters. :)

Still, while I agree with the need for a 'search' capability or a way to reference footnotes, I have no problem remembering which was the last chapter I started. Thus, if the Cybook does happen to forget my current position, I just jump to the beginning of the chapter. It's not that difficult, especially as remembering 'Chapter 39' is easier than remembering 'page 961'.

Derek

if the Cybook does happen to forget my current position,

But why would it? It's certainly never done so in my 6 months-odd of owning it. Even when I had the annoying bug of the machine rebooting or hanging when looking up words in the dictionary, it still remembered what page it had been on!

Might this be related to the issue that some people have with losing bookmarks, I wonder? A dodgy SD card? Corrupted file system?

All you have to do is measure the length of your progress bar, and tell your friends "I'm 56mm through the book". That measurement will be independent of the font and size used :).

Shame on you Harry, I would have thought you'd use the English system of measurement, i.e. 2 1/4 inches.

That really proves how we all have different tastes. I loved Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove, it's one of my favourites. But I hated Aldous Huxley's Brave New World and found the writing style irritating and repetitive.

The one thing I wish for in the Cybook is to be able to read when the battery is re-charging.

& also delphidb96, I did state it was a very popular book. As far as I know, I'm the only person who didn't like it. Of course I also dislike Ray Bradbury's work even though I love SciFi and he is very popular. When I was in college, we had a SciFi book club. With only one exception, all English and Literature majors in the club loved his work and all engineers hated it.

But why would it? It's certainly never done so in my 6 months-odd of owning it. Even when I had the annoying bug of the machine rebooting or hanging when looking up words in the dictionary, it still remembered what page it had been on!

Might this be related to the issue that some people have with losing bookmarks, I wonder? A dodgy SD card? Corrupted file system?

I had this problem once or twice, but like ProfJulie, I don't have it when I either copy directly to the SD card with out syncing or remember to "safely disconnect" the Cybook.

"Wow! You really ought to read this ebook! It's only 250 kilobytes in size!"

What have kilobytes got to do with it? Let's not muddle the water... :chinscratch:



"I'm going in for life-preserving surgery where I have a 39% chance of dying on the operating table. I think I'd be better off skipping this 1.49MB opus in favor of these five 300KB quickies."

Works for me. :D :D: :D

Derek

Good luck! :thumbsup:

I just noticed that the progress bar does not show percentage of page number at all. It seems to show the percentage of the file length. Which explains why it was totally useless for a lot of short stories I downloaded and explains some other observations (strange indications when havin PG licene or CC licence in a short story).

So you cannot look at the progress bar and see how many pages you have read.

I really like my Cybook.
None the less their are some areas of impovement.
As for too high expectations, I think if you deliver a device with a 2GB SD Card people will expect a feature that lets you handle such a card full of eBooks and having a feature "goto page..." where you have to enter a page number, without displaying a page number when reading a book ist not a very smart combination.

I'm also one of those users who experienced the bookmark bug. This problem is solved since I use a different SD Card.

Of course I'm looking forward to the new firmware, not because I can't live with the current version, but because I think it might transform a good gadget into a great one.

Currently I use my Cybook to read novels. It's not a big issue to page through my library after having finished reading a whole novel, even with several hundred eBooks on my SD-Card. But with some kind of efficient library management (folders/goto page), I would also add some reference documentations to my library, which I don't read from start to finish but to look up certain issues from time to time. Therefore such a feature would enhance the usefulness of the cybook for me.

I would also add some reference documentations to my library, which I don't read from start to finish but to look up certain issues from time to time. Therefore such a feature would enhance the usefulness of the cybook for me.

I had to remove my reference books and documents since they just took place in the library. I also like to have all the books I have read on the Cybook but that is not possible now since it destroys the navigation.

This is a really strange thread. But here are my 2 cents

First, i want pagenumbers.
Second, i want the progressbar in percentage in the library view.
Third. i want to be able to hide books in the library, that i have read.
Fourth, i want to sort books by percentage read.
Fifth, i want links to external files to work, and HTML view should be improved.

Other than that, i am very happy with my CyBook.

This is a really strange thread. But here are my 2 cents

First, i want pagenumbers.
Second, i want the progressbar in percentage in the library view.
Third. i want to be able to hide books in the library, that i have read.
Fourth, i want to sort books by percentage read.
Fifth, i want links to external files to work, and HTML view should be improved.

Other than that, i am very happy with my CyBook.

I think a progressbar with a (switchable) percentage-complete/pages-read label would make sense. That way, for those who simply cannot live without page numbers, they'd have them. IOW, leave it with a progressbar with three labeling options: no label, percentage, or pages-read.

I'd get behind the whole 'hiding the read books' idea except that it would probably be better to have the Delete button working so one could just delete them when the reader is finished.

I could seriously get behind working external links. If one has an 'each-chapter-is-it's-own-html-page' ebook, one *has* to convert to mobi because the html version can't work under build 538.

Derek

I wrote and asked Bookeen support what the status of the upgrade was, and got a reply about 2 minutes later (!) as follows:

Two minutes huh?

I begin to suspect you are on the Bookeen payroll, or maybe you're a stockholder. It would certainly explain a few things.

Two minutes huh?

I begin to suspect you are on the Bookeen payroll, or maybe you're a stockholder. It would certainly explain a few things.

I dont think so, he just got lucky ;) I am a retailer and i sometimes wait for more than a day for an answer :D

I'd get behind the whole 'hiding the read books' idea except that it would probably be better to have the Delete button working so one could just delete them when the reader is finished.
I do not want to delete the books. I just want to hide them. And on a future version you could save readinginformation depending on the user. So i and my wife can read the same book and not get in each others way other than hardwarewise ;)

I want the cybook to ALWAYS remember my place in a book when I leave the book or turn off the reader.
I want the dictionary to ALWAYS find a word if it's in there.
I want my pc to ALWAYS recognize the cybook when it's hooked up, not only when it's completely charged.
I want the cybook to ALWAYS read a file it can read sometimes.

As far as page numbers - it's already calculating the number of pages; it's not that big of a jump to show you what page you're on and the number of pages, or at least to give you the option of displaying the page number. It will help find your place when it isn't saved. I like the progress bar and the page number. In a real book you can tell about how far you are into the book, the progress bar replaces that in the electronic book.

I dont think so, he just got lucky ;) I am a retailer and i sometimes wait for more than a day for an answer :D

Right. Well if he's a plant, spreading the gospel of the greatness of bookeen all over mobile read land, he's not going to admit it now is he? Defending him doesn't change the facts, whatever they may be, regardless of how many of you choose to do it. (Nor does suspecting him.)

As far as page numbers - it's already calculating the number of pages;

I am not sure it is. I jumped to page 50 in _1632_ and then paged forward 17 paged and got to a page with "Chapter 4" on it. Then I tried to jump to page 67 but had to page back 5 pages to get to the page with "Chapter 4" on it. So the pagenumber jump is not working at all.

It seems that nobody have used the jump to page seriously since nobody has noticed that it is not working.

I always bookmark and return to the library before shutdown, and have never had any bookmark problems.

I don't have many books on the reader. I'm not using an SD card. Everything is working fine, especially since Harry told me how to back out of the dictionary reliably (use the side button!.)

Here's something though about the page number issue that nobody has mentioned: sometimes reading a pbook I'll know that I have a total of say 350 pgs. (I may even have flipped back to check, especially if I'm aware that other stuff is added on at the end.) When I'm on page 340 (I read mysteries mostly) I know the denouement is going to occur over the next 10 PAGE turns. I've found it to be harder to judge how close, exactly, I am with the slider, especially if there are other things tacked on at the end like reviews or those publisher comments or author biography, etc. The last book I read hit the end before the slider ended, and it seemed abrupt. In a pbook I would have been mentally winding down.

That said, I know this isn't a major issue. For me, for anywhere except for the very last few pages, the slider works fine.

Lelah

I am not sure it is. I jumped to page 50 in _1632_ and then paged forward 17 paged and got to a page with "Chapter 4" on it. Then I tried to jump to page 67 but had to page back 5 pages to get to the page with "Chapter 4" on it. So the pagenumber jump is not working at all.

It seems that nobody have used the jump to page seriously since nobody has noticed that it is not working.

Mobi devices don't do pagination - it's simply an "estimate" based on file position. That's why on devices which DO show the page number, (eg the iLiad) you can reach the final displayed page number and still page forward a few times before you reach the end of the book. This has been reported several times on the iLiad forum. It's yet another reason that page numbering isn't terribly useful; they aren't "real" page numbers.

Two minutes huh?

I begin to suspect you are on the Bookeen payroll, or maybe you're a stockholder. It would certainly explain a few things.

Yeah, right. In my dreams :).

Right. Well if he's a plant, spreading the gospel of the greatness of bookeen all over mobile read land, he's not going to admit it now is he? Defending him doesn't change the facts, whatever they may be, regardless of how many of you choose to do it. (Nor does suspecting him.)

When he had his iLiad, he was like this aswell. And i envy him for beeing able to fall in love with devices that much. :D Maybe Bookeen can refund him his money for the CyBook for beeing a good sales representative.

But seriously. I suspect, that once a better machine comes on the market, Harry will go for it the same way as he did with the CyBook. But there isnt one at the moment. Lets wait and see, when we will see better readers out there.

It is not without its faults , but I like my Cybook Gen3 .

It's even better than HarryT led me to believe it would be .

When he had his iLiad, he was like this aswell. And i envy him for beeing able to fall in love with devices that much.

It's not really that. It's more a case that I've been reading eBooks for an awfully long time (some 20-odd years) and I like to focus on the positive things that each new generation of device brings with it. EVERY device has bugs; anyone who's ever written software knows that there's no such thing as "bug free" software, and Bookeen seem to be pretty proactive when it comes to fixing reported bugs.

When you compare the book readers we have today to what was available 10, or even 5, years ago, it's obvious just how far we've come and just how much better these device are than those were. Be aware of the bugs, sure, but concentrating on trivial faults and making them out to be HUGE, show-stopping "issues" just seems to me to be a rather "negative" outlook on life. Enjoy the device for what it CAN do, rather than moan about what it CAN'T.

That's my philosophy of life, anyway.

Mobi devices don't do pagination - it's simply an "estimate" based on file position. That's why on devices which DO show the page number, (eg the iLiad) you can reach the final displayed page number and still page forward a few times before you reach the end of the book. This has been reported several times on the iLiad forum. It's yet another reason that page numbering isn't terribly useful; they aren't "real" page numbers.

People here has claimed that page number is working. Nobody has said that the error in 20 pages is up to 6 pages which makes it not so useful.

When you compare the book readers we have today to what was available 10, or even 5, years ago, it's obvious just how far we've come and just how much better these device are than those were.

Yeah, those stone tablets were really slow on page updates :)

People here has claimed that page number is working. Nobody has said that the error in 20 pages is up to 6 pages which makes it not so useful.

Perhaps that's one reason why page numbers aren't shown? Maybe Bookeen decided that it's better not to show a page number at all than to show an inaccurate number, as some other versions of the Mobi reader do?

Exactly. If they know they can't get it to work reliably I would rather they didn't attempt to implement it. I've had various PDA readers try to implement page numbers and I was much more frustrated with them then the Cybook. I ended up ignoring the pseudo page numbers and just using the progress bar anyway. Now the whole thing is like debating if there should be nipples on a batman costume.

Now the whole thing is like debating if there should be nipples on a batman costume.

You mean there are no....