I don't know if you have heard of www.sennadar.com but the Author, Fel, has written an eight book long saga, able to compete with the best ones out there.

Follow Tarrin Kael through a journey filled with danger, magic, and an incredible developement of events. But beware, it is addictive :)

A must read if you liked robert jordan - especially since the first books precede him!

cheers,
kaas

The only problem I see (besides the limited format offering, that is) is that you have to download each book chapter by chapter. I would be interested in trying this author but I would much prefer to be able to download a complete book at one time so I can easily convert it to the Sony format.

It's possible to download the books in MS Word doc format: http://www.sennadar.com/downloads.htm

Hmmm. If it's so great, why doesn't he have a publisher?

Hmmm. If it's so great, why doesn't he have a publisher?

honest to god, I don't know...
I have been following Fels stories since 2001. They kept me enthralled through the last year of Highschool and than through College. I the beginning I, and a few other people, had to beg him to open a paypal account- he would not accept any donation nor anything else.
Since he took up college again and couldn't afford the webspace, he finally started accepting donations, but by no means lives off them nor asks for them.

This series (and subjugation, an SF book) is definetely good enough to be published and you will not regret some time spent on checking it out.
I also would like to mention that he neither asked me to praise him, nor does he know that I post here, so no need to look for the hidden hook :)

Give it a try, you won't regret it.

cheers,
kaas

p.s.: I am quite picky in what I praise, but this deserves it (this work got me hooked on ebooks and was the cause that I got my first ereader- a casio pocket viewer :)

I will check it out. Thanks for the recommendation!

Hmmm. If it's so great, why doesn't he have a publisher?

Because getting published isn't a measure of greatness in writing ;)

The Eragon kid got published because Mommy and Daddy were rich and could afford to do it. They spent and lost a ton of money flying him around the US to schools and libraries and basically forcing the book on anyone.

It was only AFTER this movement and this large investment that a division of Random House bought the rights.

In writing, nowadays, it's not about how good you are. It's about how many people you know and how well you wish to schmooze them.

Because getting published isn't a measure of greatness in writing ;)

On the other hand, not getting published isn’t a measure of greatness in writing either :). After checking out a chapter I’m afraid that I don’t share kaas’s enthusiasm for this author, but I certainly have seen worse stuff which made it into commercially-sold dead trees.

After checking out a chapter I’m afraid that I don’t share kaas’s enthusiasm for this author, but I certainly have seen worse stuff which made it into commercially-sold dead trees.

Actually, I was sceptical for several chapters.
Please don't get me wrong, the first few chapters aren't bad, just nothing special. This soon changes :)

I am not trying to convert anybody, just pointing towards something I greatly enjoyed.
cheers,
kaas

My brother recommended this series to me a year or two ago, and while I can understand why people like it, I can also understand why it hasn't been published.

One big reason is that most publishers don't want an eight-volume series from an unpublished writer. They want a track record before entering into that sort of commitment. Robert Jordan had written and published a number of books before Wheel of Time.

Another is that many would be leery of accepting a series that has already been released in its entirety on the web.

Then there are some technical points about the writing. Modern usage is to replace other dialog tags with "said" whenever possible, and use action rather than an adverb to imply emotional content. He uses other tags much more often than said, and often with modifiers. The other aspect is POV or point-of-view. Most modern fiction is written in either third limited or first person, which means restricting the author to one point of view character in a scene. He doesn't do this but tells us the thoughts and feelings of multiple characters in a single scene.

All these factors put together are enough to make this series a hard sell to a publisher regardless of quality or how devoted the fanbase is.

Then there are some technical points about the writing. Modern usage is to replace other dialog tags with "said" whenever possible, and use action rather than an adverb to imply emotional content.

Could you elaborate on that a little? It sounds interesting, but I don't understand what you mean!

Could you elaborate on that a little? It sounds interesting, but I don't understand what you mean!

I can't guarantee it will be good as it's spur of the moment, but here you go.

"I can't stand it anymore," John said, slamming the book down on the table.

vs.

"I can't stand it anymore," John exclaimed frustratedly.

In the former, I'm not telling you how John's feeling, I'm letting his action of slamming the book tell you he's angry and frustrated. In the latter I'm telling you how he said the words and what he felt.

Could you elaborate on that a little? It sounds interesting, but I don't understand what you mean!

yes i would be interested as well, maybe you could give some examples taken from the text ?

[EDIT heh, i was too slow... thanks, that was what i wanted.]

From what I have seen so far, the writing style is rather rough. It needs someone to help the author polish it up.

I can't guarantee it will be good as it's spur of the moment, but here you go.

"I can't stand it anymore," John said, slamming the book down on the table.

vs.

"I can't stand it anymore," John exclaimed frustratedly.

In the former, I'm not telling you how John's feeling, I'm letting his action of slamming the book tell you he's angry and frustrated. In the latter I'm telling you how he said the words and what he felt.

I see. Thanks - you're right; your first example is a lot better than the second.

I can't guarantee it will be good as it's spur of the moment, but here you go.

"I can't stand it anymore," John said, slamming the book down on the table.

vs.

"I can't stand it anymore," John exclaimed frustratedly.

In the former, I'm not telling you how John's feeling, I'm letting his action of slamming the book tell you he's angry and frustrated. In the latter I'm telling you how he said the words and what he felt.

so when you say "dialog tags" you mean like "exclaimed", "cried", "shouted", "murmured"... ? if editors really *are* encouraging writers to use "said" in place of ALL these tags (and countless others i have not listed) i think that is pretty lamentable !! why actively encourage the impoverishment of the language ?? "exclaimed" does not mean the same as "said" *or* as "murmured" and it conveys a completely different tone. i don't say you can't or shouldn't complement these "tags" by action, as "slamming the book down" is very expressive ; but people's vocabularies are tending to shrink progressively already, why hasten this ? english is a rich and varied language, i would think it is in the publisher's best interest (and everyone else's) to encourage writers to take advantage of this.

i can remember reading a story written by a friend of mine (non professional) : at every line, he said the character "reached" somewhere / something (parvenir). when i pointed out that he used the word "reached" a lot (too much...), he argued that it was to avoid using the word "got" too much, and vary the language. but ironically he ended up doing exactly what he wanted to avoid, with a different word. i think the more different ways a writer knows how to express something, the better... it makes for more nuanced and precise writing.

"I can't stand it anymore," John said, slamming the book down on the table.

vs.

"I can't stand it anymore," John exclaimed frustratedly.



The second reads rather clumsily imho , in other words - to me - it doesn't flow ....

but there would be nothing wrong with :

" I can't stand it anymore ," John exclaimed , and then frustratedly slammed the book down onto the table ."

?

The second reads rather clumsily imho , in other words - to me - it doesn't flow ....

but there would be nothing wrong with :

" I can't stand it anymore," John exclaimed, and then frustratedly slammed the book down onto the table ."

?

or even, " I can't stand it anymore," John exclaimed, slamming the book down onto the table."

which is what i was thinking of... i agree, the second one *as it is there* reads rather awkwardly. but i don't think "exclaim" is the real culprit.

or even, " I can't stand it anymore," John exclaimed, slamming the book down onto the table."

which is what i was thinking of... i agree, the second one *as it is there* reads rather awkwardly. but i don't think "exclaim" is the real culprit.

I agree , the " exclaim " is an accepted form of speech , I feel it is more to do with the use of both exclaimed and frustratedly together .

( But then again , that's a comment from someone who struggled frustratingly to pass English Language and miserably failed English Literature ........ :D )

From what I have seen so far, the writing style is rather rough. It needs someone to help the author polish it up.

Yes,
this is one of the disadvantage of having no editor. Fels writing does mature with the books, but even at the end there are some -not many, but some- rough spots. Luckily that did not spoil the story for me. :)
cheers,
kaas

so when you say "dialog tags" you mean like "exclaimed", "cried", "shouted", "murmured"... ? if editors really *are* encouraging writers to use "said" in place of ALL these tags (and countless others i have not listed) i think that is pretty lamentable !! why actively encourage the impoverishment of the language ?? "exclaimed" does not mean the same as "said" *or* as "murmured" and it conveys a completely different tone. i don't say you can't or shouldn't complement these "tags" by action, as "slamming the book down" is very expressive ; but people's vocabularies are tending to shrink progressively already, why hasten this ? english is a rich and varied language, i would think it is in the publisher's best interest (and everyone else's) to encourage writers to take advantage of this.

i can remember reading a story written by a friend of mine (non professional) : at every line, he said the character "reached" somewhere / something (parvenir). when i pointed out that he used the word "reached" a lot (too much...), he argued that it was to avoid using the word "got" too much, and vary the language. but ironically he ended up doing exactly what he wanted to avoid, with a different word. i think the more different ways a writer knows how to express something, the better... it makes for more nuanced and precise writing.

I hope you'll bear with me as I veer.

Writing fiction well is a balancing act. The writer has to write both well and unobtrusively, because the reader cannot get lost in the story if they are marveling about how well it's written.

Isaac Asimov, a champion of what's called the transparent style, used to rewrite any sentence that he wrote that struck him as really exceptionally good. His point was he wanted the reader focused on what he was saying, not how he was saying it.

The advantage of 'said' over any other dialog tag is that it's the most transparent. It's unobtrusive and the eye just slides over it. This is not true of other tags. I looked at a random sampling of a chapter in the middle of one of the books in question and saw half a dozen examples of 'replied' used in succession. Most of those sentences should have been rewritten with either said or perhaps no dialog tag at all. It actually has to do with the same issue you had with reached in your friend's story. Because many novels have so much speech, dialog tags have to be re-used, and because the other ones do stand out more it can often lead to signs of over-use.

Using any tag except 'said' because it's seen as boring is normally a sign of an amateur rather than a professional. The best approach is usually considered to be to use other tags in moderation so as not to either over-use them or dilute their impact.

Said shouldn't be the only tag, but it should be the most common one.

Thanks for pointing out this series! It has been delightful so far and while I am not an editor, I find his writing style very much like Robert Jordans. Althought I am only up to page 75 (on medium font in the Sony lrf format), it seems to be very well written and is the type of book I enjoy very much.

Thanks again!

I am glad you like it - but wait untill you read further, it gets better!

"Said" replacements are just overused and the result is under effective.

For example, look at your daily conversation. Tell me how many times someone said something airily or exclaimed frustratedly just on the basis of their words? You don't know people are frustrated by their WORDS they say. You know they are frustrated by what they show to you.

And that's one of the key points of writing. Show, don't tell.

Well, I'm up to 3/4 of the way through the first book and I'm a sold puppy on Fel's writing. Very good imagination and original contest. I have read all of Robert Jordan's, Robin Hobbs, Ramond Feists, George R. R. Martin (along with most other great SF and fantasy writers) and I think this author could be right up there with them from what I've seen. Just my humble opinion.

"I understand what Lemurion means," he ejaculated.

Yes, I've read and noticed that just using "said" flows much better. And by the way, I have read way too many PG books where someone ejaculates their surprise. Freaks me out every time.

Well, I'm up to 3/4 of the way through the first book and I'm a sold puppy on Fel's writing.

So did you finish the book? What do you think now? Do also try his scifi book -unrealistic physics, but a nice read nonetheless :)

"So, then she like, goes, 'No way', and I go, 'Chuh, yeah, way!', and then he was all, 'kewl'", she exclaimed blondely.

So did you finish the book? What do you think now? Do also try his scifi book -unrealistic physics, but a nice read nonetheless :)

Yes, I finished the book and am well into the second book, The Questing Game. Still enjoy his writing very much and expect to finish the series. I can see where an editor would help because of occasional rough spots, but it does not detract from the great imagination and flow of the stories. I have been reading the books almost constantly (being retired lets me do that). I also do that with other good writers. Sometimes he reminds me of Mercedes Lackey's characterizations but his characters seem unique in most respects.
And on his SF book, what's a little unrealistic physics when you're reading for entertainment. I read for the pleasure and enjoyment and am not trying to be an editor. I appreciate anyone who is willing to put his writing on the net for our enjoyment.:2thumbsup

"I understand what Lemurion means," he ejaculated.

Yes, I've read and noticed that just using "said" flows much better. And by the way, I have read way too many PG books where someone ejaculates their surprise. Freaks me out every time.

ok, point taken in this specific case, but don't go choosing the most outrageously outdated, currently connotationally loaded example you can think of, or anything, sheesh... :rolleyes: i still maintain that a little "murmuring" or "mumbling" or even "shouting" from time to time can make for a less monotonous read. i'm not saying at *every* line, understand... my golly, since when did knowing more than one word become a bad thing ? i'm sure shakespeare wrote plays just so he could *never* have to use dialogue tags at *all*, and just skip the whole mess... (she muttered...)

"So, then she like, goes, 'No way', and I go, 'Chuh, yeah, way!', and then he was all, 'kewl'", she exclaimed blondely.

So are there many epic fantasy novels written in this style?

So then Gandalf goes "This is the One Ring," and Boromir goes "The One Ring to Rule Them All? Like, wicked!" and then Gandalf was all "Ash nazg durbatuluk..." Real downer, man.

ok, point taken in this specific case, but don't go choosing the most outrageously outdated, currently connotationally loaded example you can think of, or anything, sheesh... :rolleyes: i still maintain that a little "murmuring" or "mumbling" or even "shouting" from time to time can make for a less monotonous read. i'm not saying at *every* line, understand... my golly, since when did knowing more than one word become a bad thing ? i'm sure shakespeare wrote plays just so he could *never* have to use dialogue tags at *all*, and just skip the whole mess... (she muttered...)

Oh I wasn't addressing your comments directly or anything. I was just more or less thinking about how the phrase really stands out as absurd nowadays. I don't mind creative dialogue tags here and there. Basically, the only time it's not good be too creative in the use of a dialogue tag is if someone notices the dialogue tag. And "ejaculated" is the one that always pulls me out of the scene. :)

So are there many epic fantasy novels written in this style?

So then Gandalf goes "This is the One Ring," and Boromir goes "The One Ring to Rule Them All? Like, wicked!" and then Gandalf was all "Ash nazg durbatuluk..." Real downer, man.

ha !!! hilarious !

Oh I wasn't addressing your comments directly or anything. I was just more or less thinking about how the phrase really stands out as absurd nowadays. I don't mind creative dialogue tags here and there. Basically, the only time it's not good be too creative in the use of a dialogue tag is if someone notices the dialogue tag. And "ejaculated" is the one that always pulls me out of the scene. :)

ah ok, i took that for me. no worries. i admit, "ejaculated" rather startles me too, and i'm used to seeing out of date language in what i like to read...

These books are an excellent read,

I've read a lot of knitpicking in this thread and if I had wrote these novels then I would probably be more than a little offended.
It has always been my opinion that it's the story that matters, more than anything.
I am no writing critic, but to be honest i've read hundreds of books where the author gets far too involved with how he is writing, rather than what he is writing. A good example would probably be Robert Jordan. I love his wheel of time series, overall I would rate it among the best, however, in the later books the story seemed to grind to a halt. The writing style couldn't be faulted, but at a great cost to the story.

With the firestaff series this doesn't happen. The story moves at a cracking pace and very rarely slows down. I would even go as far as to say that this easily exceeds a great many of the fantasy novels that I have happily paid money for.

I do warn people that these books are huge, 2-3 times bigger than your average fantasy novel.

I noticed that sixth and seventh books are online, chapter by chapter, but not available to download as whole volumes, so it looks like neither of them are finished. Does Fel write parts of both at the same time?

A good example would probably be Robert Jordan. I love his wheel of time series, overall I would rate it among the best, however, in the later books the story seemed to grind to a halt. The writing style couldn't be faulted, but at a great cost to the story.


So the writing style change from earlier to later books in the series?

So the writing style change from earlier to later books in the series?

It's not so much that Jordan's writing style changed, as that the overall pace of the novels slowed. As the series moved along he kept adding characters and sub-plots and increasing the importance of existing characters. However he didn't really close out existing sub-plots or move characters off-stage to any real degree. As a result he had less space in each succeeding novel to devote to any one plot or character.

With less room, each part of the story moved less as the series went on and so things seemed to drag on. The fact that the series has been going on for about 16 years now doesn't help either.

It's not so much that Jordan's writing style changed, as that the overall pace of the novels slowed. As the series moved along he kept adding characters and sub-plots and increasing the importance of existing characters. However he didn't really close out existing sub-plots or move characters off-stage to any real degree. As a result he had less space in each succeeding novel to devote to any one plot or character.


Yes, that was what I have heard. So then the writing style is not at a great cost to the story. So there is no contradition in having a good writing style and a good story.

It's not so much that Jordan's writing style changed, as that the overall pace of the novels slowed. As the series moved along he kept adding characters and sub-plots and increasing the importance of existing characters. However he didn't really close out existing sub-plots or move characters off-stage to any real degree. As a result he had less space in each succeeding novel to devote to any one plot or character.

With less room, each part of the story moved less as the series went on and so things seemed to drag on. The fact that the series has been going on for about 16 years now doesn't help either.


I would disagree with at least some of that statement. While the complexity of the story did increase with each novel, the amount of ground each novel covered also decreased. An environment that would take a few paragraphs to describe in the early books would take many pages in later books.
Robert Jordans ability to describe a fictional world will likely never be surpassed, but if he had written the Eye of the World at the same pace as later books it would have been 3x the size.
I also believe that if "The Eye of the World" had been written with the style and pace of later novels then it would never have been published, and even if it was then I doubt it would have sold.

It is my opinion though, that the universe should only ever be a backdrop to the story and I just got the feeling that as the series unfolded the story started taking a backseat to the universe. While this wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing it should be consistent throughout the story.

As each new book from the Wheel of Time series was released then I found myself enjoying the story less and less. This hasn't happened with the Firestaff series. The pace is excellent and is consistent through each book. The universe is full and makes a great backdrop for the story, the characters are also well developed and have believable personalities. And most importantly it has a storyline that I am throughly enjoying reading.

As I have already said, I am no writing critic, but it just seems to me that if writing style is so important, and it must conform to the current standards of how something must be written, then how could anybody possibly enjoy Jules Verne, Dickens, Shakespeare, Tolkien, and dozens of others I can think of. How can someone so fixated on writing style and standards possibly enjoy reading a novel which has quite obviously been written without attention to the methods that some people would now consider essential for a good book.

Has anyone compiled Fels' chapters into books for the Sony Reader? If so, would you be willing to e-mail them to me at rhadin at editorsource.com? Thanks.

Has anyone compiled Fels' chapters into books for the Sony Reader? If so, would you be willing to e-mail them to me at rhadin@editorsource.com? Thanks.

this site - http://www.weavespinner.net/Worlds_of_Fel.htm - hosts the books in several formats (html and rtf beeing amongst them).
With librps it shouldn't be a problem

have fun:)

Thanks, kaas. I appreciate the link.

you are welcome! I just posted, fel did the real work :)
write how you like the books once you finish some of them and post in the sennadar forum.
cheers,
kaas

you are welcome! I just posted, fel did the real work :)
write how you like the books once you finish some of them and post in the sennadar forum.
cheers,
kaas

Just thought I'd mention that I finished both the Firestaff series and Pyrosion Chronicles. They all exceeded my expectations which were very high after the first few books.