It's charging right now, and I can't use it until it's done. I thought I'd give you my first impressions.

Shipping - It took nine days to get to me from China. I see from the USPS sticker that it arrived in San Francisco on 8 March, and they tried to deliver yesterday. I missed it, and picked it up today.

Packaging - It's about what I expected. It looks pretty much like any other box that contains a small piece of electronics from China. The shipping box was heavy duty cardboard, well taped. I'm not going to post the rest because it's just a standard retail box. Picture is coming soon.

Contents

M218A
instruction manual (in Chinese)
universal power supply
USB cable
earbuds
lanyard
CD of Chinese language ebooks (no software, darn it)


Okay, it turns out I can use the reader while charging it. The screen is sharp. The resolution may not actually be higher than that of the Kindle, but it certainly feels that way. And the refresh is fast. It's an LCD, so of course it's fast.

It has a nice GUI menu, with six options: settings, search, ebooks, enews, music, and pictures. I will need to be very careful when looking at the settings; it looks like I might have access to the system settings. One option I have under settings is "execute file". Since I can also delete the file, I guess this means that I might be able to run my own applications.

Interesting fact: this device supports folders!

Reading experience
I made a couple WOLF format ebooks while I was waiting. I can't get them to work. But I really don't care; this device has excellent PDF support. It is hands down the best handheld PDF viewer I have seen so far. If you only want to read PDFs, then you should consider this device. I've tried a couple PDF tech manuals. This is it. This is the Holy Grail of PDF readers.

The standard zoom setting is text width. This is very readable. But it also can zoom anywhere from 50% to 6400%. Also, you can zoom in on a 3 by 3 grid, or a 2 by 2 grid.

Connectivity
It's recognized as a USB drive. No problems there. I can see both the SD card and the internal storage (about 56MB). I can see some interesting files on the device; deviceID.log, PDF.log, signature.log. I can also see two Windows executables called Client and ClientUpdate. They run on my Windows XP laptop. Don't know what they do yet.

Music
Yes, it can play background music. The MP3 player looks a little ugly, but it sounds okay. The volume can get quite loud. The only things it's missing as an MP3 player is fast forward and remembering your place. I don't use an MP3 player, but i think this one has all the features.

Downsides
There is no on-screen battery or clock. It's not even an option. I'm really surprised by this.

If you want some pictures, look here:

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7508&highlight=m218a
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10486&highlight=m218a
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8280&highlight=m218a

M218A to be the best reader indubitable after update to V0.78 which the price is the cheapest.Many friends talking about it by internet with excitement.Today i hope we can share it from other views.

The main represent by M218A of support PDF:

Rotate
zoom out or zoom in(nine level)
nine split screen
shift
jump to anypage
limitless bookmark
support PDF of picture and scan

With regard to PDF, can you zoom in just enough to remove the margins and pan to center the text and then read a eBook with these settings or do you have to recenter and rezoom every page? Is there a way to easily shift the page up to read the rest of it when reading in landscape? These are the addtiional features I would want in an eBook reader for PDF.

Dale

With regard to PDF, can you zoom in just enough to remove the margins and pan to center the text and then read a eBook with these settings or do you have to recenter and rezoom every page? Is there a way to easily shift the page up to read the rest of it when reading in landscape? These are the addtiional features I would want in an eBook reader for PDF.

Dale

I moved your post over so I could answer it. That thread hasn't been touched in nearly a year.

The standard view for PDFs is to zoom fit for the width of the text. At this setting, I can see about 2/3 of the PDF page, assuming the page is 8.5" by 11". You can flip between the top 2/3 and the bottom 2/3 of the page. It will hold this setting for the entire PDF. If you set the zoom to another level, it will hold that setting for the entire PDF.

It also has a landscape view. It behaves exactly the same in landscape. Only difference is that the text size is larger, and I can only see about a third of a page.

But there is a small problem with the default zoom. There is a scroll bar on the right; it cuts off part of the last character on each line.

I'm not a very good photographer, but here are some side by side shots.

This illustrates how much screen real-estate the Kindle is "wasting" by having large margins and a large line spacing. In the end, 5" 480x640 isn't much different from 6" 600x800. Before seeing this, I would have said that 480x640 was "obviously" inferior to 600x800. Some of the difference may be due to screen technology though.

It's also something I don't like about e-books purchased from the Sony Bookstore. Large margins giving away a lot of screen estate. ;(

Is this LCD rather than eink? Is it backlit?

What large margins on the Kindle? I am reading The Best and the Brightest and the margins are 1/4" on the left and 1/8" on the right. To me that's very small margins.

Is this LCD rather than eink? Is it backlit?

Yes, it's a 5", 16 level grayscale LCD with a 640 by 480 resolution. If you follow the links in the second post, you'll find the tech specs.

What large margins on the Kindle? I am reading The Best and the Brightest and the margins are 1/4" on the left and 1/8" on the right. To me that's very small margins.

I have a Kindle, and used to have a PRS-500. Many of us feel that a margin of more than 2 or 3 pixels is a waste of the screen becuase it means fewer words can be on it at once.

An LCD grayscale screen without a backlight is not anything to get excited about, at least not for me. I like some margin, it makes the text more readable for me, and I don't consider the margins I noted above excessive (they vary from Amazon book to Amazon book, BTW). Would you like no margins at all?

An LCD grayscale screen without a backlight is not anything to get excited about, at least not for me. I like some margin, it makes the text more readable for me, and I don't consider the margins I noted above excessive (they vary from Amazon book to Amazon book, BTW). Would you like no margins at all?

Almost, because the Kindle has a built in margin on all sides of the screen. But 2 pixel is actually my ideal.


As for the screen, it's about 4 times faster than Vizplex screen, and there is a much greater difference between the text and the background. If this device could read a common format such as Mobipocket, it would be worth considering as an ebook reader.

I just noticed this. Unlike regular LCD screens, I can rotate this one almost 90 degrees and still see the screen. Nice.

I'm not sure what you mean by "built-in margin". The margin is set by and in the text, there is nothing built-in that I can see, or nothing built-in that applies to any and all texts. As for the screen, if I understand you correctly, you are happy to trade eink for speed in page-turning, I'd have to think if I would be.

I meant the device hardware. The screen of the Kindle has 1.5cm of plastic to the left, nearly 3cm to the right, and about 8mm above.

I thought that's what you might mean, and for me at any rate that is not any kind of a margin, as it has nothing to do with the display or the text.

How much did this cost counting shipping? Do you think it's an good as e-ink?

How much did this cost counting shipping? Do you think it's an good as e-ink?

My total cost was $290. But a good part of that is Ebay, Paypal, and currency conversion fees. If someone imported this device as a reseller, it would probably go for around $250 including shipping.

I think this LCD screen is as good as Eink.

It's also something I don't like about e-books purchased from the Sony Bookstore. Large margins giving away a lot of screen estate. ;(

Many of us feel that a margin of more than 2 or 3 pixels is a waste of the screen becuase it means fewer words can be on it at once.

Not just the margins... what about that status bar I never actually look at. I'd love to be able to get rid of it, or only see it when I hit a "status" button. Precious screen real estate wasted.

I think this LCD screen is as good as Eink.

Are you implying that the screen is reflective, a la E-ink? I don't see any backlighting in any of the M218 photographs...

What kind of battery life are you noticing? I know the specs say "up to 25 hours," but what does this translate into for an avid reader?

Usually this would be a little early to report on the battery life, but in this case it doesn't matter. I keep getting a low battery warning. It starts just a few minutes after I unplug the reader. Also, the battery gauge usually shows 2/3 charge. As a result, I don't have a valid way to judge the battery life.

I've decided that when I format an eBook, I use 0 margins on every side. I prefer to have mor eon screen at one time. Also, I purchase eBooks that I can convert to the way I want it to look.

I've decided that when I format an eBook, I use 0 margins on every side. I prefer to have mor eon screen at one time. Also, I purchase eBooks that I can convert to the way I want it to look.

Me too, with one exception. I find that some fonts and some characters tend to get chopped by a pixel or so with 0 margins. The way kerning is done can leave a slight overflow at the edge of the screen. For this reason I usually prefer at least 1 pixel and maybe 2 pixels for the margin. It doesn't give up much and provides a better visual experience. It is especially noticeable with text is fully justified.

Dale

I've decided that when I format an eBook, I use 0 margins on every side. I prefer to have mor eon screen at one time.

Makes sense when you realize that margins in paper books only exist so you can hold the book without covering the text, and to protect the text if the edges of the pages get worn. No need for that with an ebook reader.

Not with the 505 for sure. I don't have a problem with the text at the edges of the screen.

Balok, where on earth did you get that explanation for the existence of margins? Margins are there for visual purposes and also to allow for annotations. If you think about it for even a moment, you quickly realize that there are ways to hold a book which have absolutely nothing to do with the existence of margins. Frankly, I don't understand this whole discussion: the amount of text in question is small. Personally I find text without margins harder to read.

Balok, where on earth did you get that explanation for the existence of margins? Margins are there for visual purposes and also to allow for annotations. If you think about it for even a moment, you quickly realize that there are ways to hold a book which have absolutely nothing to do with the existence of margins. Frankly, I don't understand this whole discussion: the amount of text in question is small. Personally I find text without margins harder to read.

Actually Balok's post has some merit. I thought about it and I quickly realized that for me that there are not that many ways to hold a book comfortably without my fingers or thumbs being somewhere on the page. If there were no margins the text would be covered by my aforementioned fingers or thumbs. There is no real need for margins in a Electronic Reader since they are already built in by the case. I find the margins in books from the Sony eBook store to be excessive. The less words on the page means more page turns and consequently more battery usage.

Margins are there for visual purposes and also to allow for annotations.

Ok, visual purposes, but that's a question of personal preference. As for annotations, I don't see how margins could be of use on an ebook reader that doesn't let you make annotations.

there are ways to hold a book which have absolutely nothing to do with the existence of margins.

Maybe if you have the right book, like a bible that stays open on a pupit. Most paperbacks require you to hold it open, otherwise it will close itself. You can't just hold the book cover. Your fingers must grasp the margins.

Ok, visual purposes, but that's a question of personal preference.

Maybe it is not? A small margin ought to make it harder to find the next line. Especially if you have a black Cybook.

Connectivity
It's recognized as a USB drive. No problems there. I can see both the SD card and the internal storage (about 56MB). I can see some interesting files on the device; deviceID.log, PDF.log, signature.log. I can also see two Windows executables called Client and ClientUpdate. They run on my Windows XP laptop. Don't know what they do yet.



"deviceID.log",erery device has a different ID number;
"PDF.log" means PDF license ;
The "client" can download e-newspaper (only Chinese e-newspaper)

in addition,M218A supports format: EBA, EBA2.0,TXT, PDF, BMP, JPG, GIF, Animated GIF, MP3 . the other is not. HTML is not.

While I have your attention, I would like to point out another bug. The M218A loses bookmarks when I exit the book. I noticed this happeed while reading PDFs. When will this bug be fixed? When will the battery meter bug be fixed?

P.S. Do you know of software to make EBA format ebooks that is in English?

I am really astonished at this discussion about margins. Every text I see today has margins: legal briefs and student papers have them, and these do not have to be held open, since the pages lie flat (on a desk, if you wish). The margins are there for readability. If you go back centuries, you will find texts where there was no separation of words: spaces were put in to make the text readable. Spaces are essential for the eye to make out text. Find a text with no margins, and try to read it: you will skip lines, even have trouble with individual words. Margins are an essential part of text. Saying that the ereader case is a margin is like saying that the frame of a monitor is a margin. The Kindle allows for highlighting by drawing lines around the highlighted passage, and for that you need a margin. Margins mean fewer words on the page, true, which means more page turns, but how on earth does this produce concerns about battery use on a Sony which allows for many thousands on a single charge?

Susan Jacoby in her new book "The Age of American Unreason" (which I am, of course, reading on my Kindle) refers to the "e-book fizzle": she describes reading as "antithetical to the whole experience of reading on computers....", since the digitization of text on screens has, in her view, given us the habit of looking at things in small doses. This point has been made by others before, but if it is true, then the increasing popularity (if there really is any significant increase) of ebooks will change the very nature of the writing itself. Just note the example of the Japanese writing on cellphones: it produces long text messages and not the writing we are considering here, the writing of longer pieces such as books. And this also means that the parallels with mp3 players is inapt: mp3 selections are, for the most part, short.

...The M218A loses bookmarks when I exit the book. I noticed this happeed while reading PDFs. When will this bug be fixed? When will the battery meter bug be fixed?


The bug (bookmarks of PDFs) is repairing now. I will give you the update packet link as soon as the bug is fixed.
You can see battery meter in HERE: SETTING--System setting ---Battery.

M218A+ and M218B, as new edition of M218A, have already been put into the markets. they have a lot of improvement compared to M218A which is a perfect PDF reader. for instance, Wifi,P2P,flash and so on.
If you can read in CHINESE, YOU can see:
A and A+ http://www.baizhan.com.cn/index.php?showforum=824
M218B http://www.baizhan.com.cn/index.php?showtopic=66021
http://www.jcnip.com

Here is a table.
http://www.baizhan.com.cn/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=68697

The bug (bookmarks of PDFs) is repairing now. I will give you the update packet link as soon as the bug is fixed.
You can see battery meter in HERE: SETTING--System setting ---Battery.

Thanks, but I already knew where the battery meter was hidden. Why is it not visible on the menu or in a book?

I got a pm asking why I haven't posted an update. There are two reasons for the delay.

1. I've been really busy lately, and haven't had the time to sit down and write a comprehensive review.

2. I've also been waiting to hear back from the manufacturer on the bugs I reported. The PDF bug and the battery meter bug are both serious problems, in my opinion. The M218A is about 18 months old, and has had at least 4 firmware updates. Why hasn't the PDF bookmark bug been fixed yet?

I don't have very many good things to say about the M218A. I cannot use either WOLF or EBA ebook formats on the M218A. All the EBA format ebook tools that I have found are in Chinese. I don't read it, so that doesn't help me. And while I can create ebooks in WOLF format, all are shown in a font that I assume is Chinese. I looked to see if I could change the font in the reader's settings, or embed on in a WOLF ebook. I don't seem to be able to do so. So the device I have is, in effect, a $300 PDF reader. I will now review it as such.

The only ebook reader that I've had that displays PDFs was my Sony PRS-500. (I don't yet have a Cybook to compare the M218A to.) I think the M218A is about 50% faster at rendering each PDF page as my 500 was. In terms of image quality, it is much better than the Sony because it automatically zooms in on the text on the page, and will show only about 2/3 of a 8.5" by 11" page at a time. This is not a problem because I can flip between the parts of a PDF page about as fast as I can an my laptop.

When I get my Cybook, I bet the M218A will be only slightly faster, and render PDFs slightly better. The M218A will display it faster on the LCD screen, but it will be only slightly faster because most of the delay is due to the underpowered CPU.

I do have more thoughts, but I'm out of time.

Conclusion
If you're going to buy a $300 PDF reader, get a Cybook. That way you'll have Mobipocket support as well.

P.S. Yes, I know the Cybook costs more than $300. The M218A is not worth the money you'd save.

You can download some Wolf books in english from the Turkish Hanlin site. Check the wiki for the URL. http://www.walkbook.net/en/index.html
You should also be able to make eBooks using Wolf Printer option on a PC.

Dale

Thank you for pointing me at that source. Unfortunately, none of the ebooks I tried would work on my M218A.

I tried the software they provided and the results were odd. For some reason, the M218A drops all punctuation from WOLF format ebooks. It is also displaying some of the text as Chinese characters instead of ascii text. (This is a problem with the reader, not the ebook, because I also see those characters in the source text file.)

Thanks, Dale.

P.S. The problems I have encountered with PDF and text files will probably appear in the Jetbook.

I am really astonished at this discussion about margins. Every text I see today has margins:
Well, I have been experimenting with various text formats before I have settled on the sans-serif font, left justification and very, very narrow margins. The text DOES look better that way to me.

The margins in books have different reason.
A classical style hardback book is printed on a very large sheets (called folio), Those sheets are then folded again and again in half and finally bound together. Only after binding the book is cut to the size.
Also paperbacks are cut to size after binding.
Another reason for margins is that you would not be able to read the text that is close to the place where the pages are bound.
And the last but not the least reason is that many people like to make notes on margins. See The Fermat's Last Theorem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermat%27s_Last_Theorem :)

With printed papers, the reasons for margins are different. Printers and copiers (especially the really old models) can not print up to the edge of the page. Also it would be impossible for you to hold and read the paper at the same time. Also many printed papers are later bound or stapled together.
Yet another reason is that if you read a bunch of printed papers too many times the margins are the first area that gets damaged.

Saying that the ereader case is a margin is like saying that the frame of a monitor is a margin.

Yes. That is EXACTLY what I am saying.

When you use monitor for work you use the entire space to display drawings, browser windows, toolbars, icons, system tray, scrollbars ....

Perhaps you remember the times when Commodore C64, Atari 800, Or Sinclair ZX Spectrum were the top of the line computers. Those computers did have a margin on a monitor, or - much more often - a TV screen. And look how silly it looks today.
http://codeazur.com.br/stuff/fc64_final/
By the way - that margin did have a technological reason.

The format for e-books Sony is using remains me of the very first models of cars that very closely resembled the horse buggy without a horse.

Well, I have been experimenting with various text formats before I have settled on the sans-serif font, left justification and very, very narrow margins. The text DOES look better that way to me.


It is well know that what people think looks better and what is more readable is not the same thing. There are also readability reasons for margins. Most important that no visual margins will make it harder to find the next line.

It is well know that what people think looks better and what is more readable is not the same thing. There are also readability reasons for margins. Most important that no visual margins will make it harder to find the next line.

absolutely true. there are many elements of traditional printing that have been refined independently of the technology, but as concessions to how the eye and brain function when reading. these are important to know and to preserve whatever the form (paper or digital). margins on ebooks may seem pointless to some however they considerably improve legibility of the text. this is not a subjective question.

Thank you for pointing me at that source. Unfortunately, none of the ebooks I tried would work on my M218A.

I tried the software they provided and the results were odd. For some reason, the M218A drops all punctuation from WOLF format ebooks. It is also displaying some of the text as Chinese characters instead of ascii text. (This is a problem with the reader, not the ebook, because I also see those characters in the source text file.)

Thanks, Dale.

P.S. The problems I have encountered with PDF and text files will probably appear in the Jetbook.

Did the chinese characters appear in the books when you view them with the PC version of Wolf Viewer? I did some limited checking on the pc version and I did not see them on the one book I checked.

Dale

It is well know that what people think looks better and what is more readable is not the same thing. There are also readability reasons for margins. Most important that no visual margins will make it harder to find the next line.

How do you read a newspaper?

Dale

How do you read a newspaper?

Dale

:blink: i've never seen a newspaper which had no margins.

Did the chinese characters appear in the books when you view them with the PC version of Wolf Viewer? I did some limited checking on the pc version and I did not see them on the one book I checked.

Dale

The exact same errors showed up in the source TXT file (as well as the WOLF ebook I made from the TXT file) when I viewed the file on my M218A. And no, the errors did not appear in the PC Wolf Viewer.


P.S. Aside from a few minor flaws, the Wolf Viewer/Maker distributed by the Walkbook people is a really nice piece of software. A link to it should be added to the sticky.

:blink: i've never seen a newspaper which had no margins.
Go ahead.
Open a newspaper.
Here is one (http://www.nytimes.com/indexes/2008/04/06/pageone/scan/index.html)
[ http://www.nytimes.com/indexes/2008/04/06/pageone/scan/index.html ]
Now tell me, how wide the space between columns is.
:thumbsup: Thank you DaleDe :thumbsup:

When I said that the my version of formatting looked beter to me, I really meant that this setup is easier for me to read.

Reading is a very complex process. We read several words at the time. A good reader (understand person that is reading) can get in several words at a single glance.

It is well know that what people think looks better and what is more readable is not the same thing. There are also readability reasons for margins. Most important that no visual margins will make it harder to find the next line.
Actually, on my 505, I prefer no margins at all. It actually is easier for me to read that way.

Go ahead.
Open a newspaper.
Here is one (http://www.nytimes.com/indexes/2008/04/06/pageone/scan/index.html)
[ http://www.nytimes.com/indexes/2008/04/06/pageone/scan/index.html ]
Now tell me, how wide the space between columns is.
:thumbsup: Thank you DaleDe :thumbsup:

When I said that the my version of formatting looked beter to me, I really meant that this setup is easier for me to read.

Reading is a very complex process. We read several words at the time. A good reader (understand person that is reading) can get in several words at a single glance.

your example seems to confirm what i said, so i don't understand your point... in a paper newspaper, there are margins around the edges of the pages, and there are gutters between each column of text which i suppose you could argue are like small margins (it's not quite the same but it serves more or less the same purpose). when i click on the photo of the printed newspaper (with columns of text all of which are separated by gutters...), the page switches to an in-line presentation of the articles, and again there are small margins between the blocks of text and the edges of the window, or between any 2 columns. a margin does not have to be very big to count ; for example, when i format a text to make an ebook, i create a margin of 2% ; this is not very wide but it serves to allow the text some breathing room from the edge of the screen which in turn makes it easier for the eye to keep its place while going back and forth across the lines.

once again, white space is an important part of page layout and is not there just to look pretty. people figured out that space was necessary to improve readibility and comprehensibility on their own rather quickly, thus the convention of inserting a space between each word for example, and now that we have the technology to do so, this has been confirmed by scientific experiments which moniter the mouvements of the eye while reading, corresponding brain activity, and the effects of such modifications as increasing / decreasing the vertical space between lines (line height), increasing / reducing margins, lengthening / shortening the width of the column of text / page (too long lines of text, and the eye gets lost more easily on the way back from the end of the line, making the text much harder to read), masking the top half or bottom half of a string of characters (lower case characters, being more formally differentiated, are easier to recognize, to the point where you can read a word or sentence in lower case rather easily even if only the top half of it is visible ; this is much harder and sometimes impossible with upper case), whether fully-justified text is easier or harder to read than left-aligned with a ragged right edge, etc. the mechanics of reading is something that people have studied quite intensively in fact. i certainly don't claim to be an expert, but it's my job to know a minimum about it because i am a graphist and i get paid to know how to lay out text.

you are absolutely correct that reading is a very complex process, and that we do not read each individual letter one at a time (which is why, as the famous experiment has proven, you can jumble all the letters in each word of a paragraph, but as long as the first and last letters of each word are in place, you will be able to understand the text). however it is also a process which we now understand on a much deeper level than before and we can now explain exactly *why* some conventions of traditional printing serve a real purpose other than aesthetic.

you may *prefer* to read without margins, however this is a question of your personal taste, and *objectively*, overall, this actually makes reading more difficult. in addition, you clearly read with great ease and can overcome some additional difficulties ; do not forget that this is not the case of every person, even without taking into account those with difficulties such as dyslexia.

Well, at least you will agree that the paper margin in a printed book is a lot bigger than is really needed. I like 2 pixels margin on my eBookwise just because the font tends to bleed a little into the next pixel but, of course there really is still a rather large margin in the form of a frame around the image. This does just fine at allowing finding the next line in text easily. The margin doesn't have to be done with the precious few pixels in the screen display. Screen real estate management is an art in itself much different from a page of a book just like column real estate in a newspaper is managed much differently than a book. There needs to be precious little margin to sastify most people based on the number of people satisfied with a newspaper. YMMV,

Dale

But with the Cybook you cannot use the frame a margin since it is black. If the frame give you a visual marging then you have a margin.

Well, at least you will agree that the paper margin in a printed book is a lot bigger than is really needed. I like 2 pixels margin on my eBookwise just because the font tends to bleed a little into the next pixel but, of course there really is still a rather large margin in the form of a frame around the image. This does just fine at allowing finding the next line in text easily. The margin doesn't have to be done with the precious few pixels in the screen display. Screen real estate management is an art in itself much different from a page of a book just like column real estate in a newspaper is managed much differently than a book. There needs to be precious little margin to sastify most people based on the number of people satisfied with a newspaper. YMMV,

Dale

i will agree that formatting for the screen is not the same as formatting for print, especially if the text is re-flowable. i also agree that in ebooks we don't need a margin as large as commonly found in paper books (although i will say, that the inside margin of most paper books could stand to be wider, for improved reading at the edges of lines next to the binding ; but that is a completely different and unrelated question ;)). however i don't think you can consider the frame of the device to be a margin, because there is a physical and --more important-- *visual* boundary between the edge of the screen and the frame of the device.

look at this forum : each post is enclosed in a frame. between the frame and the beginning of the text, there is a little space. there is even more space if you look at the page in full-screen, because for improved reading comfort, the maximum length of the lines is limited, and instead there is empty space on either side. this is not just because your moniter is much bigger ; it is for improved readability. from time to time, i have seen websites made by an amateur, where the text begins quite literally at the very edge of the window ; even if you put the window full-screen there is not one pixel space to separate it. and even worse, if you do put it full-screen, the text fills up the complete width of the window. this presentation is so difficult and unpleasant to read, that when i find a site like that, if the content is interesting enough, i will copy it out and paste it into word and read it there, rather than in my browser. if it's not interesting enough, i will leave the site without reading it.

obviously, i'm not saying you have to use 20% margins on all sides ; as i said, i use 2% which is really quite small, probably about as wide as an "a". however, it is enough to allow the characters to display properly without any trouble of being slightly cut off or the edges being masked, and it is enough to allow the eye to easily find its place on the page and a bit of space to "turn" in. this may sound silly, but it is quite important.

and there are gutters between each column of text
this is what I had in mind.
I create a margin of 2% ; ... some breathing room from the edge of the screen.
2% is 1.8mm on the Reader and that would be a *very* reasonable value for margin. In fact, when you create an rtf file with 0.01 size margin the reader starts text some 2 mm from the screen edge.

I have been reading from [very] small screens for years and I have acquired a taste for using as much screen real estate as possible.

Sony, on the other hand sells books that have something like +10mm margin and that is a waste of space. The first post in this thread shows Kindle with a text formated with an 8 mm left margin. I have just measured it. This is what I am grumbling about.
To make things worse the books from Sony Connect store have fully justified paragraphs. Full justification works great on an average printed page where there are quite a few words (or, more importantly, quite a few spaces) on the line. When you do a full justification combined with 6" screen, relatively large font and quite wide margins the width of space between words varies too much for me to be comfortable with.

... but it's my job to know a minimum about it because i am a graphist and i get paid to know how to lay out text.
I have done quite a lot of work in DTP, working in Aldus PageMaker, Quark and InDesign so I know what you are talking about. I have even been creating brochures and advertisement company materials for offset printing.


And do not let me started on the serif versus sans-serif and their readability on a very low resolution medium. And 160dpi of an e-ink screen is low. Very low. Isn't it? Please notice that most of the content you read on web pages - including this site - is in sans-serif font.

And do not let me started on the serif versus sans-serif and their readability on a very low resolution medium. And 160dpi of an e-ink screen is low. Very low. Isn't it? Please notice that most of the content you read on web pages - including this site - is in sans-serif font.

166dpi is not low when referring to LCD. My laptop screen tops out at just over 100dpi (guesstimate).

P.S. In my opinion, any resolution higher than the equivalent of 640 by 480 on a 12" screen cannot possibly be low resolution. All 6" Eink screens exceed this easily.

this is what I had in mind.

2% is 1.8mm on the Reader and that would be a *very* reasonable value for margin. In fact, when you create an rtf file with 0.01 size margin the reader starts text some 2 mm from the screen edge.

I have been reading from [very] small screens for years and I have acquired a taste for using as much screen real estate as possible.

Sony, on the other hand sells books that have something like +10mm margin and that is a waste of space. The first post in this thread shows Kindle with a text formated with an 8 mm left margin. I have just measured it. This is what I am grumbling about.
To make things worse the books from Sony Connect store have fully justified paragraphs. Full justification works great on an average printed page where there are quite a few words (or, more importantly, quite a few spaces) on the line. When you do a full justification combined with 6" screen, relatively large font and quite wide margins the width of space between words varies too much for me to be comfortable with.

I have done quite a lot of work in DTP, working in Aldus PageMaker, Quark and InDesign so I know what you are talking about. I have even been creating brochures and advertisement company materials for offset printing.

And do not let me started on the serif versus sans-serif and their readability on a very low resolution medium. And 160dpi of an e-ink screen is low. Very low. Isn't it? Please notice that most of the content you read on web pages - including this site - is in sans-serif font.

actually, Nate is right, 160dpi resolution is quite good. print resolution is 300dpi (this is "high res"), and web (computer screen) is 72dpi. 160 for text is completely respectable and noticeably better than a computer moniter.

i don't think it's quite reasonable to use the same conventions when formatting for an 6" e-ink screen as for a telephone or pda screen (i assume this is what you meant, when you said you read on very very small screens). after all, even you say the corresponding tastes are "acquired" :p they *definitely* are not high res, and as you say are significantly smaller. i can understand not wanting a margin there because you've barely got room for 2 words per line as it is ! but this is really a pretty lousy way to read, when you get right down to it, ok in a pinch but hopefully not your only option. there are many many details of text and page layout and the reading experience which must be compromised / abandoned.

current e-ink screens might not be *completely* comparable to a printed text yet, but they are definitely several orders of magnitude closer than a telephone screen and i think (somewhat modified) print conventions apply better than telephone screen conventions. so for instance, serif typefaces display *horribly* on a telephone screen and it makes no sense to use there. however, overall they are more comfortable to read for long passages than sans-serif, which are usually reserved for titles and legends and such, rather than body text. i feel confident that e-ink screens can *already* display serif typefaces well, so why not use them ?

you're right that it's best to avoid full justification on reflowable text ; this is only partly because of the line length (on my eb1150, at a small type-size, i beleive i can fit about as many characters as a typical small paperback) ; rather, it's because you can't adjust the tracking (the space between letters) and so you invariably get a page full of "holes", as you described. not good !

you're right that it's best to avoid full justification on reflowable text ; this is only partly because of the line length (on my eb1150, at a small type-size, i beleive i can fit about as many characters as a typical small paperback) ; rather, it's because you can't adjust the tracking (the space between letters) and so you invariably get a page full of "holes", as you described. not good !

Actually, on the Cybook you do not get rivers at least since the justification will fail sometimes and the line spacing is large enough that you do not see holes so often.

i think the research is nog conclusive on the question if serif or san-serif is more readable. 160dpi is so low that you have to choose a suitable font (300dpi is also low).

Actually, on the Cybook you do not get rivers at least since the justification will fail sometimes and the line spacing is large enough that you do not see holes so often.
well, i imagine that depends on the type-size you choose though, right ? and that is sort of my point ; the display is mutable, so with tricky layouts like full-justification you cannot be sure of a good result purely on luck, whereas ragged right edge is easy to read and much more accomodating of modifications to type size / line length / etc.

i think the research is nog conclusive on the question if serif or san-serif is more readable. 160dpi is so low that you have to choose a suitable font (300dpi is also low).

300dpi is low ??? what do you consider high ???? i ask that in all sincerity ; when i treat an image for a print job, i work in 300dpi (this is called "high resolution" by people who work in graphism or printing) ; there is no point in going higher, because the printer cannot do it and it will make no difference in the end result. at 300dpi, the individual dots of the printed image are completely invisible to the naked eye and you need a pretty good magnifying glass to see them.

well, i imagine that depends on the type-size you choose though, right ? and that is sort of my point ; the display is mutable, so with tricky layouts like full-justification you cannot be sure of a good result purely on luck, whereas ragged right edge is easy to read and much more accomodating of modifications to type size / line length / etc.


Of course it depends a bit on the typ size. But what they have done is sacrificed the right justification for specific lines if you cannot justify without getting holes.


300dpi is low ??? what do you consider high ???? i ask that in all sincerity ; when i treat an image for a print job, i work in 300dpi (this is called "high resolution" by people who work in graphism or printing) ; there is no point in going higher, because the printer cannot do it and it will make no difference in the end result. at 300dpi, the individual dots of the printed image are completely invisible to the naked eye and you need a pretty good magnifying glass to see them.

Well, for the standard TeX font for example you need 600dpi at least since it has thin hairlines (or what you call them). It does not look prefect using 300 dpi. Other fonts that are designed for low resolution like Times can of course be used with 300dpi. On the Cybook I use Lucida Sans which is designed for low (screen) resolution.

Of course it depends a bit on the typ size. But what they have done is sacrificed the right justification for specific lines if you cannot justify without getting holes.
but in that case, isn't it the same thing as left-aligned text ? why not just do that from the start ? that way, you can use the typeface you want, at whatever size you want, and you have no worries about holes in the text.

Well, for the standard TeX font for example you need 600dpi at least since it has thin hairlines (or what you call them). It does not look prefect using 300 dpi.
what uses is this font designed for ? professional printers offer 300dpi ; it's the industry standard. i have never had a reason to look for higher, so i don't know if it's even available, but i really cannot imagine a case where 300dpi would not be good enough, with the exception of printing the "invisible (or at least illegible) to the naked eye" serial numbers or names which are sometimes used for authentification or security purposes (i read about it somewhere). seriously, 1/300 of one inch is so minuscule as to be effectively invisible, by itself. you can print photographs at 300dpi and they are almost indistinguishable from an argentic film print.

but in that case, isn't it the same thing as left-aligned text ? why not just do that from the start ? that way, you can use the typeface you want, at whatever size you want, and you have no worries about holes in the text.


No. Most of the text is aligned. Only one line on some pages is not aligned. It works surprisingly well.


what uses is this font designed for ? professional printers offer 300dpi ; it's the industry standard. i have never had a reason to look for higher, so i don't know if it's even available, but i really cannot imagine a case where 300dpi would not be good enough, with the exception of printing the "invisible (or at least illegible) to the naked eye" serial numbers or names which are sometimes used for authentification or security purposes (i read about it somewhere). seriously, 1/300 of one inch is so minuscule as to be effectively invisible, by itself. you can print photographs at 300dpi and they are almost indistinguishable from an argentic film print.


It was designed when things was printed using photo typesetter and they had at least 1200 dpi. A book now aday is printed with higher resolution than 300dpi (or lpi might be more correct). Photographs does not requires so much resolution to get a good result. A text needs more.

but in that case, isn't it the same thing as left-aligned text ? why not just do that from the start ? that way, you can use the typeface you want, at whatever size you want, and you have no worries about holes in the text.


what uses is this font designed for ? professional printers offer 300dpi ; it's the industry standard. i have never had a reason to look for higher, so i don't know if it's even available, but i really cannot imagine a case where 300dpi would not be good enough, with the exception of printing the "invisible (or at least illegible) to the naked eye" serial numbers or names which are sometimes used for authentification or security purposes (i read about it somewhere). seriously, 1/300 of one inch is so minuscule as to be effectively invisible, by itself. you can print photographs at 300dpi and they are almost indistinguishable from an argentic film print.

Printers are certainly higher for arbitrary graphics and printing but for viewing on a screen you can't find 300 ppi without paying two arms and a leg. When the screen fonts are designed for the ppi value and all movement of fonts are always on pixel boundaries there is no need for higher values except for graphics IMHO. Aliasing makes even 100 ppi or so pretty good for text unless you use a magnifying glass.

Dale

166dpi is not low when referring to LCD. My laptop screen tops out at just over 100dpi (guesstimate).
actually, Nate is right, 160dpi resolution is quite good. print resolution is 300dpi (this is "high res"), and web (computer screen) is 72dpi. 160 for text is completely respectable and noticeably better than a computer moniter.
We are talking about typography here, and more specificaly we are discussing wether some typical typography conventions can be applied to a 6" e-onk screen.
From the point of view of computer displays 166 dpi is great
From the point of view of what is needed for reading from the screen, 166 is very good.
But when we discuss if the 166 dpi is enough to render nice smooth outlines of a small letter in a serif font, 166 is definitely not enough and the font does apear as if having jagged edges.
A good dot matrix printer has the maximum resolution 160 dpi and you would not call this "high resolution", would you?

300dpi is low ??? what do you consider high ???? i ask that in all sincerity ; when i treat an image for a print job, i work in 300dpi.
Yes, it is low.

You are talking about two separate issues.
One is Letters on the page - the typeface, and I will return to this issue a little bit later.
The other is CMYK or GrayScale bitmaps.

You need at least 300 dpi for bitmaps [250dpi is bare minimum for good quality], because in a typical magazine (or book) offset print you print the image at the resolution of 125 lpi. It means you print the image as a series of small colored dots that have 1/125 inch distance between them. But you have to create those dots with a "printer" - fotosetter that creates those transparent foils that are used to create etched steel rolls used to print an actual page. So the fotosetter that creates those sheets of clear film has *at least* 1200dpi to be able to print those dots with good enough accuracy. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_to_film
Nowdays, you have machines that use laser to "draw" dots or images directly on the sheets of metal covered with a photosensitive layer. Those sheets are then developed, just like an old fashioned photograph would and then etched in acid and used on "printing"(**) rolls. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_to_plate
An example of such machine: http://www.heidelberg.com/www/html/en/content/products/prepress/prepress_output/prosetter_family,specs
Please notice the resolution: 2,032/2,400/2,540/3,200/3,386 dpi

(**) we are talking about offset printing here, so the paint is transfered from that "printing" roll on another roll made from rubber and then it is transferred on paper.

When you create a file to be used to print those transparencies the fonts and the vector graphics (those Corel of Illustrator images) are represented in vectors. And those vectors are RIP-ed (Raster Image Processed) and printed with the same resolution as dots for bitmaps - 1200 to 3600 dpi. And THAT is what I call high resolution.

Even a laser printer has nowdays at least 600dpi and even then, when it prints vector graphics (fonts) it uses various clever tricks (like RET) to make the outline of the font apear even crisper and smoother than 600dpi.

Also keep in mind that on the computer screen there are lots of tricks applied to make text look nice. Like antialiasing, hinting (aligning to the pixel borders) and other black magic. Computer screen can make up the lower resolution by using lots of shades [of grey] - antialiasing. The printer, on the other hand, can only print completely black areas. A defined area on the page is either covered by a paint (a baked-in toner, a die, wax, thermotransfered plastic goo or whatever) or it isn't.

Disclaimer: Most of the things I have written about have proper english terms (that I do not know :D ). I have used descriptions because I did not use English when I worked in DTP.

ha ok, i see we were talking about different things. and i don't know enough about the mechanics of printing to really compare all this. when i make an image for print in 300dpi, i consider this high resolution ; i did not realize you need a machine at 1200 to make 300.

however, i still think that 160 should be a reasonable resolution (assuming that you don't want to display your text at 6pts in serif !), because i think antialiasing and hinting (as you mentioned) can be used on these screens, since they have 4 or 8 level greyscale, depending on the model (is that correct ?). this should be enough to render a serif font cleanly, at least if you don't use a magnifying glass. i don't (yet !!) have an e-ink screen, so i really don't know, but it was my impression at least that this was true (and of course resolution which is already good will only improve as the technology is further refined). this seems to be one of the advantages of these screens.

so to reply to your question, yes, i still think that a lot of typesetting conventions can be applied to ebooks (including body text in serif font), with some important modifications in deference to the reflowable text. in fact, i think it is quite *important* to retain most of these typesetting conventions, even when they must be partially adapted for reflowable text / lower resolution. most of them have become conventions for good reasons, as we have discussed. i only wish that *everyone* knew these conventions, and why they exist, before they tried to make ebooks...

i would be curious to see the result of the justification which "breaks" (takes one or more lines out of full justification) to avoid rivers and holes ; isn't it distracting ? when i read a fully-justified text and i see a shorter line, i unconsciously expect that line to be the end of the paragraph, and if it were not i can imagine that being a bit confusing. tompe, is there any way you can make a screenshot / photo ?

Nate;

Did you ever update this from your first impressions? Do you still have the device? Still like it? Notice anything now that you've had it a little longer?

Inquiring minds would like to know especially with the jetBook available for US users and they look to be the exact same thing.

Upgrade M218A firmware v87
1.you can set up the device start up password (NEW)
2.you can set up folder password protection (NEW)
3.optimize a function of EBA,EBAML,TXT zoom in/out
4.optimize a function of PDF zoom in/out,user can adjust rate of zooming in/out
5.optimize PDF document for saving bookmark,lacking font,hyperlink.
6.supports encrypting PDF documents

v87 download (http://www.jcnip.com/M218AUpdata/M218A_87firmware.rar)

Very informative thread, keep it up guys.

Well! This looks like just the one I want but I'd like to ask a couple questions:

1) The *MAIN* reason I want an ebook reader is for PDFs. To be specific my digitized magazine PDFs. I have (or will have) magazine collections on DVDs*. These are PDF files containing hyperlinked entries and the pages are digitized magazine page images: not text. Can the M218 handle these well? I know they will be pixilated when zommed of course but can the M218 resize embedded images and handle the hyperlinked menus, entries and stuff?

2) How does a 16-level grayscale display handle photos? Does it dither those 16,000,000 colors into 16 grey shades? Are the pretty girls on the pages going to look all posterized and stuff?

Thanks




*OK, only one so far (Absolutely MAD) but I'm buying the Playboy collections too.

Well! This looks like just the one I want but I'd like to ask a couple questions:

1) The *MAIN* reason I want an ebook reader is for PDFs. To be specific my digitized magazine PDFs. I have (or will have) magazine collections on DVDs*. These are PDF files containing hyperlinked entries and the pages are digitized magazine page images: not text. Can the M218 handle these well? I know they will be pixilated when zommed of course but can the M218 resize embedded images and handle the hyperlinked menus, entries and stuff?

2) How does a 16-level grayscale display handle photos? Does it dither those 16,000,000 colors into 16 grey shades? Are the pretty girls on the pages going to look all posterized and stuff?

Thanks




*OK, only one so far (Absolutely MAD) but I'm buying the Playboy collections too.

First of all, I don't recommend this device as a reader. If you want to read old magazines, then I think you should look at a sub-laptop like the eee701 or the MobilePro 900c. One is new and not that expensive, the other is old and cheap.

It's late for me. I'll answer your questions tomorrow.

First of all, I don't recommend this device as a reader.

Nate, I'd be curious to learn more about why you don't recommend this as a reader:chinscratch:

Is it because of a lack of supported formats? You said it was the best for reading pdfs, is that only because they have to be non-DRm'd?

I'm only asking because I am interested in a five-inch model which is why I am waiting to see what Astak does, but I also liked the small lcd size.

Anyway, I'd appreciate if you could elaborate more on your experience as an owner.:thanks:

I don't like this device because it's 2 years old and only provides buggy support for a limited number of formats (WOLF, TXT, & PDF).

The M218A does not display text properly, and it has this problem in both TXT and WOLF. The first and most annoying bug is that quotation marks are ignored. The second bug is the misinterpretation of characters next to a parenthesis. For instance, "(a" will be shown as some Chinese character. I frankly do not understand how they could release this device and not catch these bugs. What's worse is that I have a later firmware, (I think the 5th firmware) and the bugs are still there!

There is also a problem with PDFs. It will not bookmark a PDF page. This is the one function that I absolutely require in an ebook reader. Without it, the device is not an ebook reader.

The final reason I don't recommend this as a reader is that the Cybook can match most PDF functions as well as provide a widely accepted ebook format. The Cybook is a better device and only costs around $100 more. I think it's worth it.

P.S. If someone wants to get this as a toy, go ahead. But if you want to get it as a reader, I wish you the best of luck.

P.P.S. I have exchanged a few emails with the manufacturer. I told them that if and when they ported real reader software (I want FBReader), I will reconsider this device. Until then, yech.

Thank you Nate.

Just what I was looking for to know the specifics why NOT to purchase this device.

I do like the form factor but will continue to wait for the Astak 5 inch model.

Remember, if you go for the 5" model, it will be even worse for PDF then the 6" eink devices out now. The 9.7 will be the best for PDF if they do the software correctly.

Remember, if you go for the 5" model, it will be even worse for PDF then the 6" eink devices out now. The 9.7 will be the best for PDF if they do the software correctly.

It's a question of price, which is why I will be waiting to see what Astek does with their 5 inch model.

I like a nice big display as much as the next person, but in these economic times, splurging on an e-reader is enough of an indulgence without completely breaking the bank by going for a big display.

I don't need/read PDFs enough to warrant the extra money.

Besides, going from a Windows Mobile phone screen to a five inch will be a BIG step up.

For everything else, I still have my Tablet :thumbsup:

The final reason I don't recommend this as a reader is that the Cybook can match most PDF functions as well as provide a widely accepted ebook format. The Cybook is a better device and only costs around $100 more. I think it's worth it.

The thing that continues to bug me about the Cybook is MobiPocket. Nothing against them, I just never shop there.

I'd say 99.8% of my e-book purchases have been with eReader. Maybe it's because they send me those e-mails every week with the discount code.:chinscratch:

They've gotten a lot of my money because of it.:cool: