Argh!
I gotta tell ya, I love my Kindle but I'm about to throw it through the window in regards to its poor navigation options.

The inability to do any sort of organization besides author and title (which can't be edited easily at all) is just driving me nuts. And honestly, that alone really wouldn't frustrate me if we could navigate via folders which would even be better!

I'm curious... did no one testing the Kindle have much content on it? Cause I'm looking at seven pages and I'm just sick to death of trying to sort out with the first few words of a title and my email address if I mailed it to go on. The PDF's often have metadata - USE IT.

I really do like the device in every way but that. I read a lot of academic journal articles through the device, and it's just getting pretty damn messy. I love that I can just send them to my device via email so easily, but man it is getting ugly in here.

i KNOW right? It's like if Gwen Stefani had a big zit on her cheek.

BTW, I really enjoy your blog. I have a t-shirt with the Feb 27 quote on it.
(No, really. I do.)

BTW also, Do you know where an humble Calvinist might find a suitable electronic version of The Institutes of the Christian Religion. All I can find is a shoddy four file version on memoware.com

I have a paper copy but am afraid I might crack a tile if I drop it.

I'm beginning to think that all the makers of these devices did their market research at the same place, since they all seem to have decided that flat navigation is the way to go. :shrug:

i KNOW right? It's like if Gwen Stefani had a big zit on her cheek.

BTW, I really enjoy your blog. I have a t-shirt with the Feb 27 quote on it.
(No, really. I do.)

BTW also, Do you know where an humble Calvinist might find a suitable electronic version of The Institutes of the Christian Religion. All I can find is a shoddy four file version on memoware.com

I have a paper copy but am afraid I might crack a tile if I drop it.

Thanks! I'm glad you're enjoying it!

Calvin had a heck of a mind... I just kind of stumbled upon that quote the other day and loved it. That idea is so prevalent in Judaism - in fact, after "action over belief" I'd suggest that the aversion to idolatry is the second biggest "issue".

Regarding Calvin's book... I found this mobipocket drm'd book. You can attempt to use it with your Kindle with the instructions around here somewhere.
It's not free, however:
http://www.ebookmall.com/ebooks/institutes-christian-religion-calvin-ebooks.htm

Books on Board has a similar situation:
http://www.booksonboard.com/index.php?BODY=searchresults&SEARCH=john%20calvin

That's pretty much what I could find that didn't appear to be exactly what you had. That's very surprisingly, actually. Good luck!

I totally agree. I want subfolders and the ability to customize search to an individual book, a subfolder or the whole Kindle. It's not rocket science.

Argh
I'm curious... did no one testing the Kindle have much content on it? Cause I'm looking at seven pages and I'm just sick to death of trying to sort out with the first few words of a title and my email address if I mailed it to go on. man it is getting ugly in here.

Wait'll you get like me. 23 pages & counting!

I finally broke down and put some of my 'already read' books on an SD card and stored the card.

The current update should have enabled folder creation.

I read somewhere that an Amazon big wig said one Kindle owner bought 800 (!!!) books since buying the Kindle. I'll see if I can find the page.

I read a lot of academic journal articles through the device, and it's just getting pretty damn messy. I love that I can just send them to my device via email so easily, but man it is getting ugly in here.

I'd be interested in seeing a screenshot of a converted journal article on the kindle, and the corresponding original pdf formatting. One of the reasons I got a sony was so I could read pdfs of scientific articles; however, the pdf view on the Sony is really way too small to actually read.

So far, Sony seems to be one step ahead of the pack with Collections. It's not folders, but it's not too bad.

So far, Sony seems to be one step ahead of the pack with Collections. It's not folders, but it's not too bad.

And even though the collections don't work for the stuff on the SD card, you can edit the metadata for the files, and you can manually sort the SD card files to appear on the reader in any order you want.

Yeah, I really miss the collections feature - it was very nice.

Here are some shots. These are just pdf's emailed directly to the Kindle - it is by no means perfect, but it is certainly readable.

And even though the collections don't work for the stuff on the SD card, you can edit the metadata for the files, and you can manually sort the SD card files to appear on the reader in any order you want.
Collections do work on the SD card for the 505.

Collections do work on the SD card for the 505.

Ooo, I didn't know that. I suppose it's not enough of a reason to shell out the $400 though.

Ooo, I didn't know that. I suppose it's not enough of a reason to shell out the $400 though.
$299.99 retail from Sony directly. Can be found slightly less on other store websites selling it.

Yah, this thing needs folders.

However, JSWolf, if I was given a Sony, I'd just chuck it a drawer and continue using the kindle. The advantages are overwhelming.

-d

I think Sony could close the gap a fair way with a bit of investment in firmware development. It's a good device at a great price point. They need to put forth some effort if they want to stay in the game. I love my Kindle but I don't want it to be the only game in town.

Yah, this thing needs folders.

However, JSWolf, if I was given a Sony, I'd just chuck it a drawer and continue using the kindle. The advantages are overwhelming.

-d
I have to disagree. I'm not all that fond of the Kindle. It's biggest drawback is it's unwieldy shape and poor ergonomics with the page turn buttons.

I have to disagree. I'm not all that fond of the Kindle. It's biggest drawback is it's unwieldy shape and poor ergonomics with the page turn buttons.


A fair criticism, however its pretty overrated. While reading, these buttons do not bother me nor anyone who I know to have used it. Before I sit the thing down I just suspend it (an easy operation on the keyboard). Therefore picking it up has no accidental page turns. Resume (or "unlock" if you will) is also trivial and instantaneous.

The reset of the ergonomics are very good: button/scroll wheel locator, thumbboard with easy-to-get search button, etc.

-d

I find when you're passing it around to folks it's easy to mistakenly turn a page (and occasionally the kitten manages it). If you're holding it, not so much (unless you have an insane kitten). I find it very comfortable use and I like the big buttons. It's just a little flick of a finger to turn a page. I don't have to move my hands from where I'm holding it. When you watch a demo video, people have trouble with it because they're not holding it naturally.

I'm shocked that neither the Sony nor Kindle seem to support folders! At last count I have about 2500 ebooks, organized by genre/author on my media server and copied to sd/mmc cards on my nokia 770 & N800. How in the world can you manage a large collection w/o folders?

I'm shocked that neither the Sony nor Kindle seem to support folders! At last count I have about 2500 ebooks, organized by genre/author on my media server and copied to sd/mmc cards on my nokia 770 & N800. How in the world can you manage a large collection w/o folders?

You manage it on your computer. You put on the reader the books you're reading or plan to read in the near future.

Still, it is shocking. It seems one of the most common feature requests we hear from people. It doesn't seem like it should be that hard. I guess it must be or else they'd have done it. I'm curious what the stumbling block is.

You manage it on your computer. You put on the reader the books you're reading or plan to read in the near future.

Or, you put all of the books on the ereader device, with a text file 00index.txt which tells you what order you wanted to read them. Or why each one was thought interesting. Or whatever you want in that index. Just having a list of all the book titles on one page (or 2 or 3) is better than seeing only 12 books per index page.

But yeah, I long for real folders......

Why is it some think that because they have hundreds (or more) of eBooks that all have to go on the reading device at the same time? What I've found is that this might slow down the device and are you really going to be able to read all of these before you get another book that you want to read before most of them?

I have a grand total of 83 eBooks on my 505 and I will read them all. In fact, I think a few can be removed because they are already read.

I don't think they all have to, in fact... I've thousands of classics not on it.

But I do have multiple things there for a reason, and I'd like to be able to use them.

For books, in and of themselves, this isn't too tricky.. but if you start using articles or documents, it gets messy fast.

Personally I'd like to have all my recipes organized on my Kindle. It helps when I'm at the grocery store. I don't plan menus in advance. I go to the store and see what's good, fresh and local and decide then. It helps if I can check out my recipes so I know if I need to get other ingredients.

For books, I don't need to have tons at once but why just limit myself to books? I know a lot of folks look at these devices and think it's silly to want it to do anything a book doesn't do. I like to think about the potential of the technology and see if we can actually improve and make things easier. That's why I held out for features like search and dictionary lookup when I could've bought an e-ink reader that just displayed pages a lot earlier and for a lot less money.

Recipes were one of my first thoughts as well - but it the lack of any sort of organization system just makes that too difficult.

Why is it some think that because they have hundreds (or more) of eBooks that all have to go on the reading device at the same time?

I want a large amount of content on my reader for the same reason I want my whole music collection on my portable media player -- I can read (listen to) what I want when the mood strikes, without worrying about what subset of content I have synced to my device. This is especially important to me when traveling and away from my computer.

It's a luxury, not an absolute necessity.

One good thing about this, though: until there is a folder system, I don't need to worry about running out of memory, since I would not put a lot on without being able to organize it.

Recipes were one of my first thoughts as well - but it the lack of any sort of organization system just makes that too difficult.

Build a mobipocket dictionary or regular book that contains your recipes, i.e. recipe book. What a concept.

Dale

I've thought of doing them in a single Mobipocket book but I add and change recipes all the time. It'd be more cumbersome than I'd like. I would be tinkering with it constantly. Ideally, I'd like to sort them into subfolders for easy browsing so I could just drag and drop the new ones in on the fly.

I've thought of doing them in a single Mobipocket book but I add and change recipes all the time. It'd be more cumbersome than I'd like. I would be tinkering with it constantly. Ideally, I'd like to sort them into subfolders for easy browsing so I could just drag and drop the new ones in on the fly.

What is your source file format? Unless it is simple TXT which is pretty ugly then you have to convert it anyway. It is easy to add an html file in mobicreator, recreate a nice toc and away you go with a new book. Not much longer than it took to create the file. If you add to an existing file it is even easier. Just rebuild the toc and recreate.

Dale

Actually it is just text which is just fine for a recipe in my opinion. It's way easier that way. I understand how to do it. I don't want to. Thanks.

Actually it is just text which is just fine for a recipe in my opinion. It's way easier that way. I understand how to do it. I don't want to. Thanks.

Aren't text files already stored separately for other files?

Dale

The reset of the ergonomics are very good: button/scroll wheel locator, thumbboard with easy-to-get search button, etc. Clarification -- the rest of the ergonomics are very good if you can use both hands. I own a Kindle, which my hubby has difficulty using one-handed unless it is lying on a table.

Actually, what I like so much about the Kindle is how comfortable it is to use one handed. Much more so than the Sony.

Aren't text files already stored separately for other files?

Dale

Yes. That's what I want. Separate files organized into subfolders. I want to keep them separate. This is why I haven't put them in one big file. I want subfolders (the subject of this thread) so I can organize them for easy browsing.

Actually, what I like so much about the Kindle is how comfortable it is to use one handed. Much more so than the Sony.

I agree. I can use it in either hand and the big page buttons make it easy to quickly change pages. So many of the video reviews complained about doing that by accident. It happens if I'm passing it around to show to people but not when I'm just sitting there reading. They're holding it up and pointing to stuff all over the place. I'm not surprised they accidentally hit the buttons. That's not regular use.

How many times have you send the desire of having ways to organize your contents to kindle-feedback@amazon.com? Continue to regularly voice your desire at that email address. It is not a black hole. Amazon really spends time reading customer feedback.

As a user, I share your frustration. As an engineer, I want to scream because engineer does not make what gets to be on a shipping product. As an Amazon shareholder, I understand company direction requires careful planning. If there is finite resources, should that be allocate to make more books available for Kindle or make organizing features. There are trade-off everyday. Voice your opinion repeatedly to make sure Amazon hears what's important to its customers.

Still, it is shocking. It seems one of the most common feature requests we hear from people. It doesn't seem like it should be that hard. I guess it must be or else they'd have done it. I'm curious what the stumbling block is.

The "stumbling block" is almost without doubt the fact that their market research has shown them that the non-technically-savvy computer user doesn't really understand how to use folders. It's surely not a coincidence that ALL the eInk reader manufacturers (except iRex with the iLiad) have come to the same conclusion. I'm sure it's a "usability issue" rather than a technical one.

The "stumbling block" is almost without doubt the fact that their market research has shown them that the non-technically-savvy computer user doesn't really understand how to use folders. It's surely not a coincidence that ALL the eInk reader manufacturers (except iRex with the iLiad) have come to the same conclusion. I'm sure it's a "usability issue" rather than a technical one.

It wouldn't suprise me. But makers of mp3-players have solved this problem by having to browsing modes. One with folders and one more database based where you select artist and so on. So then the question becomes why they did not do it that way.

And I do not believe Bookeen came to the same conclusion. I think they did the minimal work they could to get to a product and have said officially that they will add folder support.

I know how the 500/505 performs with a LARGE amount of content. But how does the Kindle perform if you put a LARGE amount of content on it say hundreds of eBooks. Does it slow down at all?

I know how the 500/505 performs with a LARGE amount of content. But how does the Kindle perform if you put a LARGE amount of content on it say hundreds of eBooks. Does it slow down at all?

I have roughly 900 books on my Kindle and do not see a significant slowdown once the books are indexed. Even reading off the SD card doesn't seem to make a difference is speed just battery life.

Yeah, I sent it to the recommendations address. Got a cookie cutter response, so I dunno.. but I would suggest everyone go this route.

And I think it's fine from a UI perspective not to have the option, but I think you can have the option just as well, too. Just create a new viewing category that uses folders and voila.

Why is it some think that because they have hundreds (or more) of eBooks that all have to go on the reading device at the same time?

Because my reading device easily supports this? Because this gives me a portable backup of all my ebooks? Because I have an unlimited choice of reading material at any time w/o having to plan ahead? It seems like a no-brainer to me, especially the portable backup.

Well, Jeff, if you want hundreds of books on a device, with no way to arrange them in folders, enjoy yourself as you look for the title you want. To me, that's a waste of time.

Well, Jeff, if you want hundreds of books on a device, with no way to arrange them in folders, enjoy yourself as you look for the title you want. To me, that's a waste of time.

Huh? I must have misspoke, or you misread, radleyp.

I wouldn't consider a device without folder ability. I was horrified when I learned the Kindle/Sony devices didn't support them. Especially since they are Linux devices.

My central library lives on a Linux media server with all content stored in folders organized by genre/author. My readers (Linux-based Nokia N800 and Nokia 770) are backed up via rsync with each device having a mirror of the central lib on it's storage card.

Especially since they are Linux devices.

Im pretty sure other kernels have folder technology :) Its not about the operating system obviously.

-d

the Kindle/Sony devices didn't support them. Especially since they are Linux devices.

In fact, the Kindle at least, does allow you to put things into folders and sub-folders. It just doesn't support that in their index. It reads the sub-directories and flattens them out.

So I can neatly store books in directories by author (where I have more than a couple by an author, I do) and the Kindle will see them all -- BUT it doesn't show that categorization in the index. Bummer......

Im pretty sure other kernels have folder technology :) Its not about the operating system obviously.-d

Never meant to imply that the kindle/sony kernels couldn't support folders, dugbug. I just expect better from software engineers.

I have roughly 900 books on my Kindle and do not see a significant slowdown once the books are indexed. Even reading off the SD card doesn't seem to make a difference is speed just battery life. Does simply having the SD card installed when you're reading a book that is in the Kindle cost you in battery life? Or do you mean actually "reading" a book that is sitting on the SD card? If so, then it would save the battery to move a book from SD into the Kindle before reading it, right?

Never meant to imply that the kindle/sony kernels couldn't support folders, dugbug. I just expect better from software engineers.


A lot of work went into the kindle sw. Kindle got right what they needed to do in v1.0.

-d

Never meant to imply that the kindle/sony kernels couldn't support folders, dugbug. I just expect better from software engineers.

Ouch... that hurts... Software engineers are people too, they have finite amount of working hours.

And they don't usually get final say in which features are implemented.

Does simply having the SD card installed when you're reading a book that is in the Kindle cost you in battery life? Or do you mean actually "reading" a book that is sitting on the SD card? If so, then it would save the battery to move a book from SD into the Kindle before reading it, right?

I usually move the book from the SD card to my Kindle main memory but when I don't I notice that the battery definitely doesn't last as long.

What I've done to try and get around the folder problem is to have a few text files on my Kindle. One text file lists my series books, in order, by author so that I can easily locate the title of a particular series book. Another file lists by purchase date my "one-time, throwaway" books. Still another lists my non-fiction books. I use my PC to add notes to each entry such as date read and personal rating. I keep the files updated and reload them on my Kindle, overwriting the file on the Kindle, so that I have a fairly current filing system. I use the files to look up a title and then go to that title in content lister.

It was a bit of work but I was able to get most of my book information from Fictionwise in .csv format. Books I purchased from other sources were added by c&p.

But I'd still rather have a folder structure that the Kindle can actually see.

MobiPocket reader has the idea of "reading lists". These shouldn't be too complicated for non-techies. Instant folders.