Hello. Hopefully this first post won't completely reiterate previous threads.

First, a brief profile. I'm an avid reader, multiple genres. I'm very computer literate, in fact I'm an application developer, software project manager, and a corporate software trainer.

Here are my ponderings on eBook Readers. First, I stare at computers enough, so I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to books. I like paper books. I'm very intrigued by the eInk technology, however, and understand it. From what I've seen, for me personally it boils down to the Sony device vs. the Cybook. Kindle is just, frankly, too ugly.

Onward to the questions and issues where your opinions would mean a lot to me. First, the functionality.

It seems to me that navigation is a big issue. I review a lot of technical manuals, and need to very quickly flip from TOC to a specific page, back a few pages, forward a few pages, then to the index and to specific pages listed in the index. After playing with the Sony device, it appears you can either start from the beginning, from where you left off, or from a bookmark. Is the Cybook any better? PDF support? The Sony seems to take a long time to turn pages in a PDF. Even their owner's manual on the device seems tortuously slow to page through.

Does either device have a search feature? I often want to pick up NEAR where I left off when reading a novel, perhaps rereading from a certain remembered passage onward.

Next, features. When reviewing technical or training material, I'll need to annotate the text. Yes, I know these devices aren't laptops, and I don't want a keyboard on a Reader. But what about voice annotations? Does either device, does ANY device, support annotations?

Next, price and the economy of the eBook market. I'm sorry, but $300.00 to $400.00 for a device seems outrageously expensive. That's my first reaction, but I'm willing to be persuaded. Perhaps the device will "pay for itself" because the content will be cheaper. Really? How much cheaper? Will I be able to get the titles I want? New releases, classic SciFi, biographies? Non-fiction new releases? Which publishers?

In terms of physical media (printed books), there are qualitative differences in editions. Hardcover books are generally better quality than paperbacks, and I prefer trade cover as a nice compromise. In other words, I understand that I'll pay more for a hardcover than for a paperback and can qualify the cost difference. But when I look at eBooks, I see "new releases" still cost more, still in the $18-20 range... not that much cheaper than a hard cover, but with no qualitative difference between an old and a new "edition"! Why does a "new" eBook cost more than an "old" eBook? $300.00 plus for a device, to get content that isn't that much cheaper, with a pricing policy that is irrational... I'm just not sold. If the price of a new book is only cheaper by a few dollars, then the Reader shouldn't cost hundreds of dollars.

Device support. I see vague references to Sony's invasive software. Can someone elaborate? I see shipment, warranty service request, and customer service problems with Bookeen. Is it too early to buy a Cybook? Are they simply too immature at this point? Is Sony any better in terms of support, warranty service, and customer service?

The gadget lover in me wants one right now. The Cybook, specifically. But the practical side of me sees overpriced, limited devices from companies with significant customer service issues in a market with irrational content pricing, and the voice in my head is saying, "wait about three years".

Whew! A long post, I know, but that's my current state of mind. I'd appreciate any discussion of the points I've raised. Thank you!

It seems to me that navigation is a big issue. I review a lot of technical manuals, and need to very quickly flip from TOC to a specific page, back a few pages, forward a few pages, then to the index and to specific pages listed in the index. After playing with the Sony device, it appears you can either start from the beginning, from where you left off, or from a bookmark. Is the Cybook any better? PDF support? The Sony seems to take a long time to turn pages in a PDF. Even their owner's manual on the device seems tortuously slow to page through.

All the current devices are primarily intended as fiction readers where you read from cover to cover. They do that extremely well. They are not well suited for reference material where one wants to go in at a random point.

Does either device have a search feature? I often want to pick up NEAR where I left off when reading a novel, perhaps rereading from a certain remembered passage onward.

No.

Next, features. When reviewing technical or training material, I'll need to annotate the text. Yes, I know these devices aren't laptops, and I don't want a keyboard on a Reader. But what about voice annotations? Does either device, does ANY device, support annotations?

The iRex iLiad allows you to annotate PDF files. The Kindle allows you to annotate files, I believe, but is of course only available to a small minority of people.

Next, price and the economy of the eBook market. I'm sorry, but $300.00 to $400.00 for a device seems outrageously expensive. That's my first reaction, but I'm willing to be persuaded. Perhaps the device will "pay for itself" because the content will be cheaper. Really? How much cheaper? Will I be able to get the titles I want? New releases, classic SciFi, biographies? Non-fiction new releases? Which publishers?

Reading is my main hobby. I spend far more time reading than I spend watching TV. Would you hesitate to spend $400 on a TV? I wouldn't hesitate to spend $400 on a good bookreader. For my, the main benefit is storage space. I live in a small house; I only have room to store a few hundred paper books. I have something like 15,000 eBooks on a small external USB hard disk, backed up onto a handful of DVDs. I have several lifetimes of eBook reading awaiting me.

Device support. I see vague references to Sony's invasive software. Can someone elaborate? I see shipment, warranty service request, and customer service problems with Bookeen. Is it too early to buy a Cybook? Are they simply too immature at this point? Is Sony any better in terms of support, warranty service, and customer service?

These devices are very reliable provided you treat them with a reasonably degree of respect. Bookeen ship 2000-3000 devices per month; a handful of people have had problems. They can be a bit slow to respond to customer support requests, yes. The overwhelming majority of customers will never need such support. Certainly not an "immature" product; I've had my Gen3 since early November and it's the best eBook reader I've owned, and I say that having been avidly reading eBooks for 20+ years.

Hope that's of some interest to you. Feel free to ask if you have any further questions.

Reading, too, is my main hobby (well, playing guitar... and Euro-style strategy games like Catan, PowerGrid, etc.). Plus I travel 60% of the time, which is a salient point I should have mentioned: the main appeal to me is the ability to travel with a library of new and old favorite books.

The TV analogy is interesting, but it breaks down a bit when I think it over. Once I have a TV, and a "subscription" to a cable service, then the content is essentially free. The TV has a lot of "add-ons" to allow it other capabilities (game consoles, VCRs, music channels, etc.). Multiple people can watch a single TV. I can record content. And so on. In the market, what does TV compete against? Movies at the cinema? Tickets to a live sporting event or concert? In that relative economy, TV is a much less expensive alternative.

In the book economy, I can buy a trade cover edition of a book for about $17.00, essentially the same price as a new release ebook, and the paper book's reader is free: my eyes, and the navigation (my hands) is extremely versatile. That's the market where ebook readers live, and I'm finding it very difficult to justify the price in terms of a single convenience (having multiple books at hand). If this convenience were combined with a few other factors, such as excellent navigation and MUCH cheaper content, then I'd have an easier time justifying the price.

Thank you for your excellent reply.

The TV analogy is interesting, but it breaks down a bit when I think it over. Once I have a TV, and a "subscription" to a cable service, then the content is essentially free.

There is, of course, a huge amount of out-of-copyright content available free of charge.

One of my interests is 19th century novels. The huge benefit of eBooks for me is that I can download thousands of such books, completely free, from sites like PG, and, in fact, they are far easier to obtain that way than as paper books, since most of them are long out of print. Eg, consider the English writer of adventure stories, Sir Henry Rider Haggard: go into any bookstore today and you'll probably find two of his books - "King Solomon's Mines" and "She". Go to PG, however, and you'll find his complete works (about 65 novels), all completely free.

Agreed - content is an extremely important consideration. I've been leaning toward the Sony Reader, mainly because I could drive a few blocks to Borders and pick one up today. Ok, so on to Sony's online bookstore to do a few searches... hmmm, well, of course I'd love the entire Patrick O'Brian "Master and Commander" series. The Orson Scott Card "Ender" books. Tolkein. Stephen Baxter's new "Time's Tapestry" series looks very interesting. I like Historical Fiction with a twist, let's try Jack Whyte's "Camuold/Eagle's Brood" series. Might as well search for an old favorite of mine, Richard Adams (Watership Down). And let's also try a recent non-fiction title just to be thorough, Dava Sobel's "Longitude", as well as a favorite non-fiction author, Simon Singh (The Code Book, Fermat's Enigma).

Zero. None of the above.

No other considerations matter, at this point. No platform, regardless of style, support, availability, or technical features, can be considered when not a single book in my ad hoc, impromptu list is available. By this criteria, it looks like Kindle is the only option - and it's out of stock, too expensive, and to my mind burdened with unnecessary features. Ah well. I did try.

Taylor, if you have been reading the forum, you'll know that you can get eBooks in MS Reader and convert to LRF very easy. Also converting from Mobipocket is not just as easy. Search around the forum and you'll find the relevant threads.

So basically, the Sony has as much going for it as the Cybook in terms of content. In fact maybe more since it also has the eBooks available at Sony's eBook shop.

No platform, regardless of style, support, availability, or technical features, can be considered when not a single book in my ad hoc, impromptu list is available.One thing to check, before you consider your list too definitive, is whether the books on it are e-vailable anywhere -- many books still aren't available as in e-versions ... well, not legal ones, anyway. If that's what's going on with your list, then you're not going to find any device that can meet your criteria.

Tangential to that, most electronic readers can handle books from some other sources/stores, provided you're willing to do some conversion. The Sony is particularly good about this, as it handles RTF files natively, what with RTF being so easy a target to hit. :shrug:

With that in mind, then, could you recommend an ebook provider website, with support for the formats you mention, where I could check a few titles and authors? Assuming I find and purchase oh, say the Lord of the Rings in one format, convert it to Sony's and install it. Is that legal? Will a software/firmware upgrade remove those titles?

Fictionwise (http://www.fictionwise.com) is the first one that comes to mind, and it's a good general one.

If you'll hang on a few minutes, I'm sure you'll have a good list here. :D

With that in mind, then, could you recommend an ebook provider website, with support for the formats you mention, where I could check a few titles and authors? Assuming I find and purchase oh, say the Lord of the Rings in one format, convert it to Sony's and install it. Is that legal? Will a software/firmware upgrade remove those titles?
I'm also partial to BooksOnBoard (http://www.booksonboard.com) to purchase eBooks.

Ok, FictionWise:

William Gibson: yes, multiple titles
Patrick O'Brian: none
Stephen Baxter: yes, multiple titles
Simon Singh: one title... well, it's non-fiction on a site named FictionWise...
Orson Scott Card: limited titles
Tolkien: none
Neal Stephenson: yes
Ian M. Banks: none

Ok, so it's spotty at best. I can get some old favorites, classics, and new bestsellers (which are mostly junk, IMO).

I'll check some other threads about the side-effects, if any, of converting Microsoft Reader to RTF. This thread has been very educational, thanks for all the replies.

If you plan on getting a Sony Reader PRS-505, you can use lit2lrf to convert the LIT into LRF for a better reading experience and a MUCH FASTER conversion process as well.

I just can't bring myself to do it... if someone wanted to get me an expensive gift, fine, I'd tell them about the Sony Reader. Or if Borders Rewards sent me a 40% off coupon that didn't exclude the Reader (fat chance). But it seems other e-ink/e-paper technologies are about to hit, and I want to see eBook prices much lower than they are relative to printed books. After browsing this site and others, I don't think I'm 3 years out like I first posted - more like a year out.

That's your call alone to make, Taylor514ce. Which is as it should be, since you're the one who has to live with it. :yes:

I'm glad you were able to decide that you're not ready to jump before you spent the money. It's always much better that way. :pleased:

That's your call alone to make, Taylor514ce. Which is as it should be, since you're the one who has to live with it. :yes:

I'm glad you were able to decide that you're not ready to jump before you spent the money. It's always much better that way. :pleased:

Indeed. That was the purpose of this little web foray. I wanted to talk it out, get some other opinions, and make up my mind.

This is a well-run community, highly focused and helpful. I'm sure I'll be back... eventually.

Oh, hey, don't make it all that eventually -- you never know when the next device will be announced, and there's no better place to find out than here. :beam:

Indeed. That was the purpose of this little web foray. I wanted to talk it out, get some other opinions, and make up my mind.

This is a well-run community, highly focused and helpful. I'm sure I'll be back... eventually.

There are many of us that now own eBookwise 1150 devices while we're waiting for the e-INK devices to settle down a bit. It is not a bad way to go. It is a great reading device and much cheaper.

Dale

Taylor, I say wait your three years. Clearly, eReaders are not for you at this point.

I have no problem finding the books I want, though. 'Nuff said.

Concerning the price... They have to get cheaper, true, but I can't see a "market explosion" as with mp3 players to bring them down. Today's reading habits are what they are.

Taylor, I say wait your three years. Clearly, eReaders are not for you at this point.

I have no problem finding the books I want, though. 'Nuff said.


For me, the question is not "are the books I'd like to buy in paper available as eBooks?" but "are there enough eBooks available to interest me?"

The answer, for my part, is an unambiguous "yes". The combination of classics from PG, low-cost SF/fantasy from Baen, and a smattering of commercial eBooks from other sources is enough to keep me going for a heck of a lot longer than I can realistically hope to live :).

Taylor, I say wait your three years. Clearly, eReaders are not for you at this point.

The more I educate myself on the technology, the more excited I am. It seems that several new devices are just on the cusp, which is bound to change the market dynamics. I think within a year we'll see twice as many devices, new content providers, etc.

Don't you think the business market will drive the consumer market? Laptop PCs used to be a business-only special use machine. Mobile/Cell phones are another example. When enough businesses adopt a technology, they fund the development of consumer machines.

I think if a few devices geared for the business market (technical markup, bluetooth, external monitor/projector connectivity) appear it will have a trickle-down effect on the consumer market.

With the current dedicated reader consumer market, it's a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation. There isn't wide choice of cost-effective readers, so why produce content, and why develop an affordable reader for a market with limited commercial content? But add business use machines (businesses create their own content) and you'll create a class of users who have high-end devices that they'll take home and on business trips, and they'll want to do more with them than mark-up the latest batch of PDFs from Marketing.

Reading with interest, may I ask what PG is?
Penguin?

I started investigating bookreaders on Friday and yesterday ordered a Cybook from NAEB. Will probably order a Mighty Bright CCFL as well..

Thanks for the informative posts on this site.

PG=Project Gutenberg (http://www.gutenberg.org/)

Ok, FictionWise:

William Gibson: yes, multiple titles
Patrick O'Brian: none
Stephen Baxter: yes, multiple titles
Simon Singh: one title... well, it's non-fiction on a site named FictionWise...
Orson Scott Card: limited titles
Tolkien: none
Neal Stephenson: yes
Ian M. Banks: noneYou are at the mercy of the publishers. As far as I know, for instance, there are no authorized ebook editions of Tolkien.

It's possible to find all manner of stuff on the darknet, if you don't mind coping with someone's OCRed scan of a paper book. Personally, I can't be bothered. I have more stuff in electronic form than I have time to read now, without adding stuff that was an unauthorized conversion of a paper edition.

I'll add another perspective. I read a lot of ebooks, but my device isn't a dedicated reader: it's a Palm OS PDA. I need a device that does more than just read ebooks. Right now, I carry a call phone and a PDA. I won't carry a cell phone, a PDA, and a reader. And no "converged" combo cell phone/PDA works for me. The problem is form factor, and specifically screen size. A device small enough to be a useful cell phone has a screen too small for some of the other things I do.

My device happens to be an orphan. I have a Tapwave Zodiac 2. Tapwave went belly up in July 2005, but I'm not concerned -- I have a spare and a "parts" unit if something happens to it. Tapwave was trying to craft a device that was a handheld gaming platform as well as Palm OS PDA. It has a 200mhz ARM processor, 128MB of RAM, and ATI graphics chip with 2D acceleration and 8MB of on-board video memory, Yamaha stereo sound, and two SD card slots. One of the slots is SDIO, so I can use a Wifi SD card to go online. The Zodiac has a 320x480 screen with "virtual" DIA.

The biggest issue I have is that there isn't a standard ebook format that everyone supports. To cover all the bases, I maintain five readers, and must recall which content is in which format read by what reader.

I want to get content once, and read it on whatever I happen to have. My preference is to get content in HTML format, which I can read directly in a browser on desktop or laptop, and convert for Plucker, a free, open source, offline HTML viewer for Palm devices. I also have content in Mobipocket, eReader, PDF, and Word, RTF and ASCII text formats.

PDF is handled by the open source PalmPDF application, which views "native" PDF files on a card. Word, RTF, and ASCII text I read with an open source viewer called PalmFiction, which reads those files from a card. (Word and RTF are rendered as plain text.)

PDFs are problematic on any handheld. They usually don't reflow to fit the screen, and can be painful to read on smaller devices. If I have a choice, I get content in a different format. PalmPDF covers the cases where I don't have the choice.

I got into PDAs as ebook readers when my then employer decided all IT staffers should have PDAs, and presented me with a Handspring Visor Deluxe. It wasn't clear what I was supposed to do with it, so I went looking for software that would help me do my job as a sysadmin, and discovered I could get technical documentation in a form I could convert and read on my PDA, rather than carrying large heavy manuals. I didn't expect to appreciate reading fiction on the device, but discovered I could do that and like it too.

The Visor Deluxe was a low res device with a 160x160 mono screen supporting 4 shade grey scale. I went from the Deluxe to a Visor Pro (also 180x160 mono), to a Tungsten E (320x320 color) to my current Zodiac.

At this point, I have about 3,500 ebooks on my device, primarily in Plucker, but also in the other formats mentioned. Plucker, eReader, and Mobipocket support color, embedded images, text attributes, fonts, and hyperlinks, as well as search and things like dictionary lookups.

Because it's a Palm OS PDA, I also have PIM functions, and with the appropriate software, the device is an MP3 player, video player, photo viewer and games device, as well as serviceable word processor and spreadsheet viewer. I can go on line, too, and do email, but I seldom do the former as extant browsers leave somewhat to be desired, and don't want to do the latter on the PDA. Email can wait till I have desktop or laptop handy, thank you.

I wouldn't mind a larger device with a bigger screen. I've seen eInk, and it's lovely. But I need color, which is several years off in eInk at best, and I need multi-function. I can't justify the prices being charged for a device that is solely a book viewer.

If someone made a device in the Sony or Bookeen form factor that had color and supported all of the other things I currently do on my PDA, I'd happily jump, but no one does.
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Dennis

Dennis,

I work in IT/Software, and everything I need to do professionally I can do with a combination of a laptop and a Blackberry. When I read for pleasure, I definitely don't want to do it on a computer or a blackberry (though I'm trying out MobiPocket on the blackberry).

That's why I'm interested in an eInk reader. My laptop is one of those huge, workstation-class 17" monsters, and the blackberry is just a bit too tiny. When I'm in a plane, hotel room, or airport lounge, I want a book-sized device to read a book, that's it.

I see two clear camps: those who want a dedicated reader, and those who want a multi-function device. I just can't see a multi-function device ever having a form factor that would make it attractive as a reader. I don't want to hold a book-sized thing up to the side of my head to make a phone call.

I see two clear camps: those who want a dedicated reader, and those who want a multi-function device. I just can't see a multi-function device ever having a form factor that would make it attractive as a reader. I don't want to hold a book-sized thing up to the side of my head to make a phone call.

I'm hoping some day we will have an e-ink (or equivalent) device with a larger, maybe faster, screen and more computer capabilities that would be great for reading technical/academic texts, making annotations, doing your PDA stuff: the "Info Pad" concept. I will definitely want one as will many business users and probably every student. I will also still want something the size of a paperback that I can curl up with in bed or toss in my handbag for recreational reading. In time the screen prices will get cheaper. Since that's the thing that keeps reading devices so expensive, when that happens it won't be a big deal to have more than one.

As it is, I love my Kindle for reading novels and such. I don't really view it as "multi-function" though many people look at the network features and assume that's what Amazon was going for. If you think of the Kindle that way, it's a flop. Web-surfing on e-ink is a pain. If you view it the way I do, as a reader that has some network functionality designed to improve your reading experience, then it's quite successful. It's a single function device IMO.

I should probably ask this in the Kindle forum, but I suppose it isn't inappropriate here: what is the shape of the Kindle? It's so hard to tell from photos. It seems very asymmetric, and in fact it looks like it may even be wider on the left side than on the right. Is it really wedge shaped? It also looks as if the keyboard section has had a slice taken out of the bottom left corner.

I should probably ask this in the Kindle forum, but I suppose it isn't inappropriate here: what is the shape of the Kindle? It's so hard to tell from photos. It seems very asymmetric, and in fact it looks like it may even be wider on the left side than on the right. Is it really wedge shaped? It also looks as if the keyboard section has had a slice taken out of the bottom left corner.

Your eyes didn't deceive you. Your description is almost perfect. I know it's hard to believe, but made that shape on purpose.

I don't want to hold a book-sized thing up to the side of my head to make a phone call.You've got me thinking now ... what about a book-sized thing that used a bluetooth earpiece and had a built in "garage" for storing and charging it? That might solve the problem.

Of course it would have to be an earpiece that was easy to pull out of the device and stick in your ear for quick answering .... :chinscratch:

Maybe it could double as a stylus! :idea:

Your eyes didn't deceive you. Your description is almost perfect. I know it's hard to believe, but made that shape on purpose.

What was the purpose? ie, why was it made that shape rather than the usual rectangle?

What was the purpose? ie, why was it made that shape rather than the usual rectangle?I think it's suppose to mimic the shape of the right-hand half of an open book.

Your eyes didn't deceive you. Your description is almost perfect. I know it's hard to believe, but made that shape on purpose.

I love my Kindle, but it is pretty "out there" in terms of shape. The Kindle is better appreciated when you actually see and hold one. Pictures rarely do it justice.

I get comments all the time from strangers who see it and they think it looks better in person. I was sitting in a comfy chair at Borders reading it (while my girlfriend was shopping for p-books), and lots of people were very interested in it. I was happy to stop reading and give a demo, but it started to get to get in the way of my reading. Mostly 40ish year-old women were excited by it and the idea of having so many books one easy-to-use device--I was pretty surprised.

Most computer geeks I know think it's ugly but regular people seem to really enjoy it. The opposite reactions of what I would have expected. Sorta like the VW bug I suppose. You either hate it or love it.

In the numerous discussions of eink on this site, many contributors speak of multifunction devices and eink in the same breath. Eink, however, is a new technology and a pda screen is not its equivalent. What makes the Kindle (and the Sony, etc...) different is the screen which for the moment no pda has. Adding reader software to a pda does not make it a Kindle. If eink makes no difference to you, then stick with what you have, but do not think for a moment that what you experience on your pda is the same. I have read books on a pda and even a phone, but it is not the same as eink and unless pda's eventually adopt eink screens it never will be.

One of my favorite things to do when folks mention PDAs to me in the context of reading, is to pull up a book on my Palm and a book on my Sony and hold them side by side and ask them which they'd rather read on.

Not a single one has said they'd rather read on the Palm -- not even jokingly. None of them has so much as hesitated even an instant over the question. :nice:

I've had the same experience with my wife and daughter who would not consider reading on a pda/smartphone: my daughter has now announced that she will buy a Kindle.

One of my favorite things to do when folks mention PDAs to me in the context of reading, is to pull up a book on my Palm and a book on my Sony and hold them side by side and ask them which they'd rather read on.

Not a single one has said they'd rather read on the Palm -- not even jokingly. None of them has so much as hesitated even an instant over the question. Agreed. I wouldn't mind the larger screen and better reading experience of the Sony.

But if I did the same comparison, then explained what I did on the PDA aside from reading books that I couldn't do on the Sony, and what I paid for my PDA vs what a Sony costs, I think the equation would change dramatically.

It's all a matter of what you need to do with your device, and what you are willing to carry around. I happily carry a cell phone and a PDA. I won't carry a cell phone, PDA, and reader. And none of the combo devices that are cell phone and PDA work for me -- too much of what I do requires a bigger screen than any such device has.
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Dennis

In everything there is a trade-off. :yes:

As marvelous as e-ink is, it's not the solution to everything, for the reasons you so well describe, and probably others neither of us has thought about.

For example, I still carry a Palm: I can't keep my checkbook on my Reader. :wink:

Isn't the iphone screen as big (or very nearly as big) as the Zodiac's? I carry a smartphone (a MotoQ, on which I used to read books) and the Kindle. I have a lot of software on the Q (Quicken, Zagat, PocketStars, games) and it works fine. I input very little on the phone - I am a touch typist and only a full keyboard is for me truly satisfactory, so I input almost all on my desktop. A device the size of a Kindle would never, in any case, work as a phone. Dennis, I think the matter of price for the eink reader is exaggerated: figure I'll keep it for two years (that's how long I've had my Q), that's less than $20 a month, I spend that and more going to the movies once with my wife. Yes, the pda does more, but I don't see that that changes much: a Kindle is a reading device, period. I do not need or want pim functions in a device that size, as pim functions for me must fit in my pocket.

As a frequent business traveler, I always have my laptop and blackberry with me. That's a given. What isn't a given is which 3 or 4 books to pack with me for the trip. Or do I gamble on finding something worthwhile in the airport book stores? For me, a dedicated reader makes sense.

While I think the eInk technology will eventually work its way into some strange and wonderful new devices, I think the ebook dedicated reader device is the perfect first use of the technology. What isn't perfect is the price of the devices, and the crippling effects of DRM, competing formats, and vested interests of the publishing industry.

I'll be getting the Sony Reader, as soon as either 1) the price drops or 2) competition at the retail level has an effect. With Target, Best Buy, Circuit City, Borders, plus online retailers and Sony themselves all selling the device, eventually someone will start offering discounts. Of course, today with nearly every one of them sold out (including Sony themselves), I'm not holding my breath.

Then of course, I will have not only the pure joy only dedicated gadget geeks can feel, I'll also have the ironic joy of griping about publishers, talking about the device here, and trolling the web for content.

Dennis,

I work in IT/Software, and everything I need to do professionally I can do with a combination of a laptop and a Blackberry. When I read for pleasure, I definitely don't want to do it on a computer or a blackberry (though I'm trying out MobiPocket on the blackberry).I had laptop and Blackberry. The Blackbarry I had was one of the slim-line units intended to be combo cell-phone and push email device. Mobi probably would have run on it, but there's that too small screen size again, as well as the issue of getting ebooks onto it. With the PDA, I use a card reader to drop ebook files directly on an SD card in the appropriate directory, and off I go.

I certainly am not interested in reading on the laptop. Too big and too heavy to just carry around with me when I'm out and about.

That's why I'm interested in an eInk reader. My laptop is one of those huge, workstation-class 17" monsters, and the blackberry is just a bit too tiny. When I'm in a plane, hotel room, or airport lounge, I want a book-sized device to read a book, that's it.I have similar feelings, but I also include the cases where I don't have the laptop along. If I'm traveling, I probably do, but I'm unlikely to pull it out in an airport lounge, or on a plane or train, unless I am doing something that can only be done on it.

I see two clear camps: those who want a dedicated reader, and those who want a multi-function device. I just can't see a multi-function device ever having a form factor that would make it attractive as a reader. I don't want to hold a book-sized thing up to the side of my head to make a phone call.Depends on what the multiple functions are.

What do I do? Let's see:

Place/receive phone calls. I have a tiny low-end Nokia cell phone I use for that. That's all it does, and all I want it to do. It lives clipped to my belt.

Everything else in on the PDA, which lives in a shoulder bag or briefcase, depending, not a pocket. Having PDAs fail the Drop Test(tm) cured me of pockets as places to keep them.

PIM functions -- Address book, calendar, reminders, to-dos. Well, that's what a Palm device was designed to do.

Read ebooks and refer to electronic references. Easily doable with the appropriate software, though not as easy due to incompatible formats and the need to maintain multiple viewers as it ought to be. I have a library in my pocket.

Watch videos. Doable with the appropriate software, which is this case is a free, open source product called TCPMP. I know people ripping full length movies from DVDs for playback on their handheld with TCPMP, though I haven't bothered.

View photos. Doable with software. JPGs in my case, but other image formats are possible.

Listen to MP3s. Doable with software, as well as Ogg Vorbis files in addition to MP3s.

Play games. Lots of them out there, including arcade style, puzzle games and any other variety. I have an SDL port of Nethack on the PDA.

Surf the web. Doable in a pinch with a wifi card, but I vastly prefer laptop or desktop. Too many sites don't have mobile friendly faces, and Palm browsers lag what's available elsewhere.

Read/reply to email. I can but don't. It can damn well wait till I'm on desktop or laptop.

Read/edit Word documents and Excel spreadsheets. Doable with the appropriate software. (Mostly Excel, here.)

Write documents. Doable with the appropriate software and a folding keyboard.

Write code. Doable with the appropriate editor and a folding keyboard. Depending upon the code, some of it I can even build and run on the handheld, though in practice, I don't.

Which of the above can I do on a dedicated reader? The third.

If I could get a device in a reader form factor, that supported color, and did all the things I do with my PDA, I'd probably switch to it. There isn't one at this point, though if ASUS actually makes the reported future eee model with a 9" screen, I'll be looking real close.
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Dennis

Place/receive phone calls: blackberry.
Read/reply to email: laptop/blackberry
PIM functions -- Address book, calendar, reminders, to-dos: laptop Outlook/Blackberry.
Watch videos: TV. Laptop.
View photos: not on my list.
Listen to MP3s: not on my list, though I have an iPod nano I typically pack along with my Bose QC3 headphones.
Play games: not on my list.
Surf the web: laptop
Write/Edit PC files: PC/laptop
Write code: PC/laptop

In short, all my computing needs are handled by my computer. My communication needs are handled by my communication device. I have a music player for music, though I don't use it much. I'd like a reader device for reading.

I realize this leaves me with:

1. Computer
2. Phone/Emailer
3. Music Player
4. ebook Reader

So be it.

Slightly back on topic to "which one should I buy", it looks like BooksOnBoard's price for the CyBook Gen 3 is higher than Bookeen's own retail price.

You've got me thinking now ... what about a book-sized thing that used a bluetooth earpiece and had a built in "garage" for storing and charging it? That might solve the problem.

Of course it would have to be an earpiece that was easy to pull out of the device and stick in your ear for quick answering .... :chinscratch:

Maybe it could double as a stylus! :idea:

Yes... a universal computing device with earbud, virtual screen (eyeglasses) and subvocal input. I want the MetaVerse from Neal Stephenson's "Snow Crash", and I want to be that Lagos guy. (No, not really.)

Isn't the iphone screen as big (or very nearly as big) as the Zodiac's?I'm not sure, but doesn't matter. Unless/until Apple releases the SDK for the iPhone, the software won't be there for most of what I do. And even after they release it, it will take a while for certified apps to appear, and who knows whether anyone will port an ebook viewer to the iPhone? (Mobipocket would be the obvious first choice, but do they have the developer resources?)

The iPhone is pretty, with elegant design, a gorgeous display, and a superb UI. What the iPhone does, it does very well. What it doesn't do makes it unsuitable for me.

I carry a smartphone (a MotoQ, on which I used to read books) and the Kindle. I have a lot of software on the Q (Quicken, Zagat, PocketStars, games) and it works fine. I input very little on the phone - I am a touch typist and only a full keyboard is for me truly satisfactory, so I input almost all on my desktop.I don't do a lot of input on the PDA, but I have a folding keyboard for those instances when I need to. I don't like thumbboards, the on-screen virtual keyboard is too slow, and while I'm passable at Grafitti, a keyboard is a lot faster and easier for any extended input.

A device the size of a Kindle would never, in any case, work as a phone.Agreed. I have a tiny Nokia that works just fine.

Dennis, I think the matter of price for the eink reader is exaggerated: figure I'll keep it for two years (that's how long I've had my Q), that's less than $20 a month, I spend that and more going to the movies once with my wife. Yes, the pda does more, but I don't see that that changes much: a Kindle is a reading device, period. I do not need or want pim functions in a device that size, as pim functions for me must fit in my pocket.Price is only one factor, and eInk isn't the point.

The question becomes: how many different devices am I willing to carry? I'll carry a cell phone and a PDA. I won't carry a cell phone, PDA, and reader. I won't carry a combo cell-phone/PDA because I haven't seen a converged device that works for me. I want a larger screen than any cell phone will have.

eInk is lovely, but one of my requirements is color, and that's a couple of years off for eInk at best. It's in development in the lab, but I don't expect to see it in a device soon.

I'd like a device that could normally replace my laptop as well as my PDA, with something in a smaller, lighter form factor. It doesn't have to fit in a pocket. My PDA is a bit big to carry in a pocket, and lives in a shoulder bag or a briefcase. It needs to have PIM functions, display ebooks, play MP3s and videos, display photos, surf the web, handle email and newsgroups, do word processing, spreadsheets, and text editing, and play games. It needs a color screen large enough to do such things comfortably. It needs a keyboard, but an external BT keyboard or the like is fine. It needs Wifi and BT.

It does not need to run Windows - I can handle Linux, thank you. It does not need to run MS Office. Open Office works for me.

It does need to be flash based, and use SD cards for external storage.

The closest I've seen to what I'd like thus far is the ASUS eee, but I'd like a larger screen. If ASUS made something like the eee with a larger screen as a tablet, minus the keyboard, that you could use a BT keyboard with, we'd start getting into the range of what I'm looking for.
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Dennis

I see two clear camps: those who want a dedicated reader, and those who want a multi-function device. I just can't see a multi-function device ever having a form factor that would make it attractive as a reader. I don't want to hold a book-sized thing up to the side of my head to make a phone call.You are including a cell-phone as part of a multi-function device. I don't. I want that separate. All I need my phone to do is place and receive calls, and be able to share the address book with my other devices. My does that, and I'm happy.

When I factor cell-phone out, the equation changes, and the solution becomes much different.
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Dennis

It's interesting. My phone MUST have email functionality. Email is the primary way my clients communicate with me, and I can't lug around an open, connected laptop 24/7 just to read and answer email. Occasionally I'll need to make a phone call in response to an email, and the Blackberry simply excels at that. I'm trying to use it as an ebook reader, too, with mixed feelings. It does great for GPS mapping, IM, alarm clock, and general memo pad functions, keeping certain informational tidbits close at hand.

All other computing (Office apps, coding, Captivate video/audio recording, web, and to some extent music playback) is just that: computing, and I do it with a computer.

For me, the ideal dedicated device isn't the phone, its the ebook reader. A phone/PDA doesn't quite work for me, and neither does a backlit computer screen.

Dennis, the Kindle, which came as a surprise over the holidays, changed things for me in a way I did not expect. I had been carrying my MotoQ only, reading on it as well (I even read two full-length novels), but when I began reading on the Kindle, I quickly realized that I would never again read anything of even moderate length on a phone or pda (I had previously been using a T/X) and this for two reasons: there was no longer this annoying backlight and the screen was now a respectable size, so that I could actually judge paragraphing. I just finished an essay by John Stuart Mill who writes in often paragraph-long sentences with paragraphs that can sometimes stretch to more than a page: it is impossible to get a feel for such text on any pda (the Zodiac included) that I know. SO, now I carry the MotoQ (on which I sometimes read newspaper headlines) and the Kindle. And my phone must be email-capable. As it turns out, color on the reader is less important to me. So you and I will continue our search for the ideal device.

I love my Kindle, but it is pretty "out there" in terms of shape. The Kindle is better appreciated when you actually see and hold one. Pictures rarely do it justice.

I was one of the "IT'S FUGLY!" crowd, but one of my co-workers got one for Christmas and when I saw it in person, I said, "Oooh, it's CUTE!" It really is. :)

Another co-worker saw my Cybook and wanted to get an eInk device for her husband, who travels a lot for his job. He rarely re-reads books, and would want to use it for newspaper subscriptions, and isn't "techy" as she said, so I had no hesitation in recommending the Kindle for him. It will be perfect.

I was perfectly happy reading ebooks on my Treo, but my eyes did not respond well to extended periods of reading on a backlit device. Everything went swimmy after a while. eInk is fantastic for reading--but I haven't given up my Treo, either! And I still have eReader on it--what the heck, I paid for the Pro version--and it will do for situations where I don't have or can't carry the Cybook.

It's all about what will work for you. The Cybook was the best choice for me and I am very, very happy with it. But any of the eInk readers will give you a great reading experience--and many of the backlit models will, too.

eInk is fantastic for reading--but I haven't given up my Treo, either! And I still have eReader on it--what the heck, I paid for the Pro version--and it will do for situations where I don't have or can't carry the Cybook.Incidentally, eReader Pro is now freeware.

Former parent company Motricity, Inc. sold eReader to Fictionwise. Fictionwise is celebrating by making the reader freeware.

Now, if they are smart, they'll emulate what Mobipocket did after acquisition by Amazon, and make the ebook creator software free, too, to encourage folks to create content in eReader format.

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Dennis

Dennis, the Kindle, which came as a surprise over the holidays, changed things for me in a way I did not expect. I had been carrying my MotoQ only, reading on it as well (I even read two full-length novels), but when I began reading on the Kindle, I quickly realized that I would never again read anything of even moderate length on a phone or pda (I had previously been using a T/X) and this for two reasons: there was no longer this annoying backlight I've never found backlight annoying. And one of the pluses about the Zodiac is that I can turn backlight off, which makes it usable out of doors in sunlight.

and the screen was now a respectable size, so that I could actually judge paragraphing.

I just finished an essay by John Stuart Mill who writes in often paragraph-long sentences with paragraphs that can sometimes stretch to more than a page: it is impossible to get a feel for such text on any pda (the Zodiac included) that I know.And judging paragraphs has never been an issue for me. Some folks do write run-on sentences, but reading those has more to do with leading and measure for me than screen size. In Mobipocket, for example, I use a converted 10pt Cambria serif font using Mobi's standard line spacing that I find readable. The Zodiac defaults to landscape orientation, and I get 15 to 17 lines at ten to twelve words per line (depending on whether I have the toolbar visible), which I find quite readable.

SO, now I carry the MotoQ (on which I sometimes read newspaper headlines) and the Kindle. And my phone must be email-capable.I used to have a Blackberry that was an email capable phone, courtesy of my former employer. It pretty well defined how connected I didn't want to be. I never saw email that couldn't wait till I was at desktop or laptop to respond to it, especially since a lot of the business email I got were requests to do admin chores on servers that could not be done from the phone in any case.

There may be folks for whom it is critical to get all email instantly, regardless of where they may be and what they may be doing. I'm not one of them, and don't want to be one of them. Push email tends to blur the lines between work and private life, and there's a limit to how much blur I'll accept.

As it turns out, color on the reader is less important to me. So you and I will continue our search for the ideal device.I've got a fair bit of stuff that began life as illustrated versions. I'm sorry, but there's no way I'll settle for Arthur Rackham or Ralph Caldecott illustrations in four shade gray scale.
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Dennis

Dennis, I find the backlight OK for limited periods (say, 45 minutes - 1 hour), but after that I begin to see reflections, just as I do when I look directly into a bright light, and I must stop for a few moments. No such problem with eink. Paragraph formatting is critical for certain writers (Proust, Joyce, Mann, even dialogue-heavy writers like the great Dickens) and simply cannot be appreciated on 3-4" screens: poetry is still more of a problem and I remember trying to read Billy Collins (in ereader, which I have owned since it was peanut reader) on my T/X before finally giving up. Yes, color would be better, but for me reading in black (grey?) and white in eink is better than ereader on a pda. I don't need push email, but I need the ability to send text messages and emails when I have something (short, to be sure) to communicate and am not at my desktop. I don't have the perfect device yet, however, and probably never will have, so like you I'll just keep waiting and looking.

Well to chip in my two cents. I find Reading on a PDA to be fine. I use an Acer N311. I have mobipocket on it and I use mobi creator to convert my books to .prc. I use a black background and grey text color to make the reading easier on the eyes. Backlight issue- I have to agree that the backlight on some PDAs is too strong. In fact on my Acer n311 it is a bit stronger than I like. However, during the daytime and with enough light shining on the Acer it is not an issue. At night when I have low light I do have too much backlight from my Acer.

Solution: simple. I wear a pair of sunglasses.


I find reading Joyce, Poets, Proust and others on my PDA no problem. I have a 3.7 inch screen and find this quite sufficient to read ,most material as DMcCunney stated above. Granted when a SMALL eink Reader comes out I will be first in line to buy. I am waiting for the Erikson/Seiko ereader which seems to be the size of a Pocket PC.

I realize that many on this site like the larger Screen of the eink reader type as it is more like a real "book" experience. For me, though the digital age and the ebook call into question what a "REAL" ebook reading experience should be. I think many are happy reading literature, poetry and such on many types of devices from Notebooks, to PDAs and Mobile phones. Otherwise they should change the name of the site to:

Mobile E-ink Read

Dennis, I find the backlight OK for limited periods (say, 45 minutes - 1 hour), but after that I begin to see reflections, just as I do when I look directly into a bright light, and I must stop for a few moments. No such problem with eink. Paragraph formatting is critical for certain writers (Proust, Joyce, Mann, even dialogue-heavy writers like the great Dickens) and simply cannot be appreciated on 3-4" screens: poetry is still more of a problem and I remember trying to read Billy Collins (in ereader, which I have owned since it was peanut reader) on my T/X before finally giving up. Yes, color would be better, but for me reading in black (grey?) and white in eink is better than ereader on a pda. I don't need push email, but I need the ability to send text messages and emails when I have something (short, to be sure) to communicate and am not at my desktop. I don't have the perfect device yet, however, and probably never will have, so like you I'll just keep waiting and looking.

Since this is my initial foray into reading eBooks, I'm using the devices I have at hand while I wait for some price breakthrough on the Sony Reader. I have a Blackberry, which was fine during a recent 20-minute wait I had to endure (hospital waiting room). I'll be flying to Boston next week, lots of airport time, which should give the BBerry a good workout.

I have an old Palm m505 that I used heavily and is now retired to life as a digital stopwatch (I do a lot of public speaking, and it's handy to set on the podium). The issue with it is that it will only charge/sync through a "charging cradle" which I'm not packing around with me, so it isn't what I consider truly portable. Its surface is too reflective, and the backlight drains the battery very quickly. Would something in that form factor work if it had an eInk screen? It just might! I never thought of holding out for a SMALLER eInk device. That's food for thought, hidari.

Dennis, I find the backlight OK for limited periods (say, 45 minutes - 1 hour), but after that I begin to see reflections, just as I do when I look directly into a bright light, and I must stop for a few moments. No such problem with eink.Understood. I've never found backlight to be a problem, but everyone's vision differs. If it is an issue for you, eInk is an apt solution.

Paragraph formatting is critical for certain writers (Proust, Joyce, Mann, even dialogue-heavy writers like the great Dickens) and simply cannot be appreciated on 3-4" screens: poetry is still more of a problem and I remember trying to read Billy Collins (in ereader, which I have owned since it was peanut reader) on my T/X before finally giving up.This is far more subjective. I haven't found that to be an issue at all, though I can see where poetry might present a challenge. I don't read that much poetry, and read that in paper editions when I do so. Some formatting really doesn't adapt well to smaller screens, particularly when lines may be wrapped by the viewer in ways that interfere with what the formatting was intended to do.

Yes, color would be better, but for me reading in black (grey?) and white in eink is better than ereader on a pda.One of the nice things about the technology is that there are a wide range of solutions. If reading on a PDA doesn't do it for you, you have other options like eInk.

I don't need push email, but I need the ability to send text messages and emails when I have something (short, to be sure) to communicate and am not at my desktop. I don't have the perfect device yet, however, and probably never will have, so like you I'll just keep waiting and looking.I don't need that ability, though I have it in a pinch. Should I be in that position, I'll think hard about how I got into it, and how to get out of it again. (At my former employer, the IT folks used IM to communicate. I stated that I would install an IM client only when given a direct order. I got quite enough interruptions, thank you, without adding that one. The issue finally went away when a co-worker in a conference call said "The nice thing about Dennis is that if he's at his desk and you call him, he picks up first ring. If he doesn't pick up, he's not at his desk, and you won't get him in IM, either!" Bless you. co-worker. No further nags about not being on IM...)
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Dennis

I used to have a 500 and when I went to the SonyStyle store to take a look at the 505, I decided I liked the new Vizplex screen, and the changes to the buttons turns out to be quite good. I did think the cover would be an issue since I was used to the 500 where it folded under and lined up in the right side. The 505's cover sticks out on the right side when it is folded back. But that turns out to make it easier t hold with my right hand. I can hold the 505 with one hand (left ot right) easier then I could with the 500.

All that plus the 505 looks sleeker and more streamlined. Anyway, I do think the 505 looks better then the Kindle (from what I've seen in photos). Plus you don't have to worry about bug page turn buttons getting in the way.