View Full Version : Value of the guide


curiousgeorge
03-06-2013, 05:42 PM
I know the guide is optional, but Ive always wanted to know if someone actually can see a real benefit with using it when coding .epubs.

Jellby
03-07-2013, 07:41 AM
I don't know of any ePub reader actually using the guide. In theory, it could be something like a reduced TOC. The only use I know is for creating a Mobi file from the ePub.

curiousgeorge
03-07-2013, 09:18 AM
I was under the impression the mobi files were creating a TOC based on the .ncx. I dont typically create mobi but it is something I plan to dive into this summer.

JSWolf
03-07-2013, 11:11 AM
I was under the impression the mobi files were creating a TOC based on the .ncx. I dont typically create mobi but it is something I plan to dive into this summer.

When you use Calibre to convert ePub > Mobi, the NCX ToC is used to built the linked ToC in the Mobi.

When you use Kindlegen to convert ePub > Mobi, the NCX ToC is ignored. You would need a ToC that's a list of links and a guide entry for the ToC.

curiousgeorge
03-07-2013, 12:32 PM
I dont use Calibre. I hard code EVERYTHING.. I refuse Calibre. It might have been an epub 3 from the toc.xhtml file some are using. I dont know but I will research more when I am ready. Thanks!

Jellby
03-07-2013, 12:37 PM
I was under the impression the mobi files were creating a TOC based on the .ncx.

It depends on the tool you use. The old Mobi format uses the <guide> element, so I guess there are at least some converters that can use this information when available, rather than trying to guess it from the NCX.

curiousgeorge
03-07-2013, 12:41 PM
It depends on the tool you use. The old Mobi format uses the <guide> element, so I guess there are at least some converters that can use this information when available, rather than trying to guess it from the NCX.

would be good to look into. Might have something to do with .mobi and .kf8

JSWolf
03-07-2013, 12:44 PM
If you don't care about Mobi (not sure about KF8), then you can leave out the guide.

Doitsu
03-07-2013, 01:16 PM
When you use Kindlegen to convert ePub > Mobi, the NCX ToC is ignored.
KindleGen does not ignore the .ncx file; the .ncx file is included in the .mobi file and can be used instead of the inline TOC for chapter navigation with eInk Kindles that support firmware 5.1 or higher (e.g. Kindle Touch). Even K3s support rudimentary .ncx navigation: users can select previous and next chapters with the 5-way button.

would be good to look into. Might have something to do with .mobi and .kf8

This website (http://epubsecrets.com/where-do-you-start-an-epub-and-what-is-the-guide-section-of-the-opf-file.php) contains a good introduction into recommended Kindle guide items. If you use inline TOCs in your epubs, I'd recommend including the following TOC guide item:

<guide>
<reference type="toc" title="Table of Contents" href="toc.html" />
</guide>

This'll save users of older Kindles (K4 and lower) the hassle of opening your epubs with Sigil to check for the presence of an inline TOC and a corresponding guide item.

JSWolf
03-07-2013, 09:40 PM
KindleGen does not ignore the .ncx file; the .ncx file is included in the .mobi file and can be used instead of the inline TOC for chapter navigation with eInk Kindles that support firmware 5.1 or higher (e.g. Kindle Touch). Even K3s support rudimentary .ncx navigation: users can select previous and next chapters with the 5-way button.

The NCX is not converted to a ToC in Mobi. So when you use Kindlegen to convert an ePub with only an NCX ToC, the Mobi ends up with no ToC. That's what I mean by ignores the NCX.

curiousgeorge
03-08-2013, 09:20 AM
so whats creating the TOC? Ill test this weekend!

Doitsu
03-08-2013, 10:13 AM
so whats creating the TOC? Ill test this weekend!
I assumed that you already created an inline TOC manually. If you didn't, you can generate one automatically with Sigil (http://code.google.com/p/sigil/downloads/list) from the .ncx file.
However, this is only necessary for ePubs that you intend convert to Kindle files and only for older Kindles.

AlPe
03-09-2013, 05:14 PM
I don't know of any ePub reader actually using the guide.

Lucidor/Lucifox does use it, you can see the items in the guide instead of the items in the TOC, on the left panel of the app.