View Full Version : Use of nonbreaking space ( )


Ti-Ron
11-27-2012, 04:35 PM
Okay, first of all I know this is really specifi to french langage and writing rules and I'm really sorry. Hope you still love me! ;)

I wonder if is optimal to use the nonbreaking space before every ponctuation marks (; : , . ? !) ?

Is there a general rule or a better way to go?

I would like to get something well conded and well edited. I hate to see a "." or a "%" alone on the last line of a "page".

Thanks a lot! :)

DaleDe
11-27-2012, 07:39 PM
Okay, first of all I know this is really specifi to french langage and writing rules and I'm really sorry. Hope you still love me! ;)

I wonder if is optimal to use the nonbreaking space before every ponctuation marks (; : , . ? !) ?

Is there a general rule or a better way to go?

I would like to get something well conded and well edited. I hate to see a "." or a "%" alone on the last line of a "page".

Thanks a lot! :)

Two choices, don't put any space at all ahead of punctuations and they will work properly. A nbsp will work fine if you need a space but thinspaces can be problematic. So I would say yes, put an nbsp ahead of all punctuation.

Dale

DSpider
11-27-2012, 09:07 PM
Shouldn't e-readers do this automatically? Romanian has words like "să-l", "ce-i", "într-o", "într-adevăr", "s-au", and so on (kinda like the English abbreviation of "don't", "it's", "they're", etc), and it always breaks them at the dash.

Software is dumb. I say do whatever you can to make them more presentable.

Sigil can find and replace " .", " ?" and " !" (space in front) for all HTML/XHTML files.

Doitsu
11-28-2012, 02:53 AM
I wonder if is optimal to use the nonbreaking space before every ponctuation marks (; : , . ? !) ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, AFAIK, there's no space before commas and periods in French.

As for the non-breaking space issue, roger64 contributed to several threads on how to best implement them. For example: Narrow No-Break Space and commercial support. (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189487)

Ti-Ron
11-28-2012, 09:13 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, AFAIK, there's no space before commas and periods in French.

Don't worry, you're absolutly right! ;) I didn't read my post before submit it!

Ti-Ron
11-28-2012, 09:15 AM
Two choices, don't put any space at all ahead of punctuations and they will work properly. A nbsp will work fine if you need a space but thinspaces can be problematic. So I would say yes, put an nbsp ahead of all punctuation.

Dale

Thanks, I'll keep this in mind. Is there a reason why thinspace can be problematic? I assume it's a webkit specification?

Ti-Ron
11-28-2012, 09:18 AM
Shouldn't e-readers do this automatically? Romanian has words like "să-l", "ce-i", "într-o", "într-adevăr", "s-au", and so on (kinda like the English abbreviation of "don't", "it's", "they're", etc), and it always breaks them at the dash.

Software is dumb. I say do whatever you can to make them more presentable.

Sigil can find and replace " .", " ?" and " !" (space in front) for all HTML/XHTML files.

Depends on the ereader, when I tested my ePub in iBook some "." where left alone on a line but when tried it on a Kobo Touch everything was find. When I put nonbreaking space both devices show them properly.

A big thank you to everyone! :)

DaleDe
11-28-2012, 01:20 PM
Thanks, I'll keep this in mind. Is there a reason why thinspace can be problematic? I assume it's a webkit specification?

It is a font set problem. Not all fonts support the thinspace. If you want a thinner space then put a span tag around the nbsp and then scale it smaller using CSS to simulate a thinner space.

Jellby
11-28-2012, 02:37 PM
Or just use the thin space (non-breaking, of course) and let others convert it to some hacked-up code (like a scaled-down  ) if their readers do not offer proper font support.

It's OK to try to please everyone, but if we all use poor code, we'll keep having books with poor code, and no incentive for software developers to give us better readers.

Anak
04-14-2013, 01:58 PM
Or just use the thin space (non-breaking, of course) and let others convert it to some hacked-up code (like a scaled-down  ) if their readers do not offer proper font support.

It's OK to try to please everyone, but if we all use poor code, we'll keep having books with poor code, and no incentive for software developers to give us better readers.

If you have a Kobo (Touch, Glow or Mini) you could try this. I have not tested it myself.

Webkit syntax -webkit-nbsp-mode: normal | space;
• normal (by default): Nonbreaking spaces are treated as usual.
• space: Nonbreaking spaces are treated like standard spaces.


Kepubs
In the kobo.js file there is a webkitNbspMode option,


In the kobo.js file locate:
body.webkitNbspMode = 'space';
Change this to
body.webkitNbspMode = 'normal';

Kobo eReader.conf
File location: .kobo/Kobo
Add the webkitNbspMode to the "Reading section" of the file
[Reading] (section)
Add here:
readingWebkitNbspMode=normal

Or add to the CSS file
-webkit-nbsp-mode: normal;

PoP
04-14-2013, 11:57 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, AFAIK, there's no space before commas and periods in French.

As for the non-breaking space issue, roger64 contributed to several threads on how to best implement them. For example: Narrow No-Break Space and commercial support. (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189487)

True for commas and periods, but space before "double" punctuations (even different flavours of spaces, and varying rules in different french regions, no general rule that I know of) : see this site I quickly found (http://david.latapie.name/blog/internationalisation-punctuation-support/).