This will be my first device, but I decided I really need it. My needs are pretty basic but even after reading here, I'm still confused.

I'm in college, and I'm trying to avoid adding to my current physical book collection (500 and counting). I'm also on a budget so I don't want to spend a lot (after what my books cost I'm flinching at every dime spent)

I'd like something with a wifi connection so no matter where I am, if I have a connection I can download books. I'd like to make sure I can download from Project Gutenberg.

I've so far really liked the Sony reader, it's pricey, but still in my budget. The Amazon reader is out of my budget. It's IMO way too expensive and I can't see that it has any fantastic features.

And I'd like a lot of memory. I've got a ton of books, and really, some can be gotten rid of and put on the new reader. So I'd like lots and lots of space.


Hopefully that covers my needs. Can anyone suggest a reader that covers my needs?

The ONLY eBook reader on the market with WiFi is the iRex iLiad, and I'm afraid that if the Kindle is out of your budget, then the iLiad most definitely is.

I'd ditch the WiFi requirement if I were you, and go for either the Sony Reader or the CyBook Gen3. Both are excellent devices. Both use memory cards, so space is a complete non-issue.

I guess most of college books would be in PDF format, right?

From the mention of PG, I think he's talking about fiction rather than college textbooks.

The other device you might consider is the Nokia 770 (no longer made, replaced by similar N800 and N810) with FBReader. It cannot read DRM-laden e-books and its battery life is perhaps 4 hours, but it is otherwise a very good e-book reader and it does come with WiFi. The screen is almost exactly half the size of a Sony, but because it is usually held in "landscape" mode all this means is that you need twice as many page turns (which are very fast on the 770). It is also backlit and color. The more expensive N810 has a sun-light readable display.

Are you planning on using your reader for text books?/books for school?

If so, you may want to reconsider the Kindle - the search function is a real must. I had a 505 and loved it, but the lack of search ability made it too awkward to use for texts for class (since you can't just quickly flip through the pages or when the professor says "go to page 128" go to the same page 128 everyone else is on.)

To be honest, NONE of the current eink readers are good enough for text books. So if anyone is planning on a 505, Kindle, Gen3, V3, iLiad, or whatever is currently out now to use for text books, you'll be wasting your money.

From the mention of PG, I think he's talking about fiction rather than college textbooks.


He's a she. ;)


But some college, but college actually requires a lot of standard books. For example, my art class has the "tao te ching" as required reading. Easily gotten on line in nearly any format.

So it's not ALL my texts, just as many as possible.

Are you planning on using your reader for text books?/books for school?

If so, you may want to reconsider the Kindle - the search function is a real must. I had a 505 and loved it, but the lack of search ability made it too awkward to use for texts for class (since you can't just quickly flip through the pages or when the professor says "go to page 128" go to the same page 128 everyone else is on.)


The Kindle is WAY out of my budget. $400 for a device is just too much. I know what you are saying though, and I agree, but budgets are budgets :)

The other device you might consider is the Nokia 770

That's one I looked at before, so I'm glad to see it actually suggested. And it's a little expensive, but not badly so. And the design is nice.

To be honest, NONE of the current eink readers are good enough for text books. So if anyone is planning on a 505, Kindle, Gen3, V3, iLiad, or whatever is currently out now to use for text books, you'll be wasting your money.


That's good to know. So even if I got the Sony one, I wouldn't work. Which means I'd be getting one and not being able to have EVERY class book in it. Good to keep in mind.

To be honest, NONE of the current eink readers are good enough for text books. So if anyone is planning on a 505, Kindle, Gen3, V3, iLiad, or whatever is currently out now to use for text books, you'll be wasting your money.

I think both (Sony and Kindle, haven't used an iLiad) work fine for text books. The trick here is - what kind of text books.

Is the Calculus 101 book going to work? Nope. Chemistry? Nope. In fact, hardly any will work for these fields... with their monster sized pages and enormous amounts of charts and graphs, but for your average humanities/social sciences students - these can work very well, occasionally requiring some tweaking for the odd chart or graph. When most the text is text, it's just fine. And that's most majors, really.. once you take out the hard sciences and mathematics, you're left with a lot that works just dandy academically.

But I found, aside from the search thing, my books for my senior capstone class worked just perfectly and kept me from dragging a dozen books around with me everywhere.

I think both (Sony and Kindle, haven't used an iLiad) work fine for text books. The trick here is - what kind of text books.

Is the Calculus 101 book going to work? Nope. Chemistry? Nope. In fact, hardly any will work for these fields... with their monster sized pages and enormous amounts of charts and graphs, but for your average humanities/social sciences students - these can work very well, occasionally requiring some tweaking for the odd chart or graph. When most the text is text, it's just fine. And that's most majors, really.. once you take out the hard sciences and mathematics, you're left with a lot that works just dandy academically.

But I found, aside from the search thing, my books for my senior capstone class worked just perfectly and kept me from dragging a dozen books around with me everywhere.


Well, I'm a history major, so luckily not too many formulas to worry about. But, this brings your comment back to the Sony reader. It might be back in the running.

The Sony Reader is usable academically, but it will require more work on your part to make it so (and it really is an excellent device.)

A lot has to do whether or not you are actually using the texts in class. I've a history minor, and generally found that I wasn't using the texts in class - and if this is the case, being able to search isn't as important. However, if you scan your textbooks in you'll want to keep the page numbers and if you don't, you'll need to find a hard copy of your texts if you need to cite them since the real pagination isn't present.

With the frequent use of bookmarks, I think the benefit would outweigh the costs.

He's a she. ;)




My apologies :).

A lot has to do whether or not you are actually using the texts in class. I've a history minor, and generally found that I wasn't using the texts in class (snipped)

With the frequent use of bookmarks, I think the benefit would outweigh the costs.


Not all the texts that's for sure. But yeah, I agree that the bookmarking is important for referencing for papers. And as you know, it's not just the class texts, it's things like if I wanted to do a paper on the fall of Rome, I might want to download Gibbons to my reader and be able to reference. I'd need the markers and placeholders then.

The other device you might consider is the Nokia 770 (no longer made, replaced by similar N800 and N810) with FBReader. It cannot read DRM-laden e-books and its battery life is perhaps 4 hours, but it is otherwise a very good e-book reader and it does come with WiFi. The screen is almost exactly half the size of a Sony, but because it is usually held in "landscape" mode all this means is that you need twice as many page turns (which are very fast on the 770). It is also backlit and color. The more expensive N810 has a sun-light readable display.


OK, I've looked at the N800 and the 770. My question is this, every one I've seen doesn't strike me as a "reader" but more of something like a blackberry. Is this device simply not the same as say, the Sony reader? It's more multi use than *just* a book reader?

OK, I've looked at the N800 and the 770. My question is this, every one I've seen doesn't strike me as a "reader" but more of something like a blackberry. Is this device simply not the same as say, the Sony reader? It's more multi use than *just* a book reader? It is more than just an e-book reader, although that is what I bought and used my 770 for. It is a full Linux-based "Internet Tablet" with a relatively large and active developer community. The screen is small, but its 800 pixel width is enough to display many web pages without horizontal scrolling. It is not a blackberry or PDA, because office (PDA) software is not really available, but it will browse the web, play videos, act as a wifi radio, etcetera.

A used 770 would make a good e-book reader. The N800 is the better Internet Tablet, and is about as capable an e-book reader as the 770.

It is more than just an e-book reader, although that is what I bought and used my 770 for. It is a full Linux-based "Internet Tablet" with a relatively large and active developer community. The screen is small, but its 800 pixel width is enough to display many web pages without horizontal scrolling. It is not a blackberry or PDA, because office (PDA) software is not really available, but it will browse the web, play videos, act as a wifi radio, etcetera.

A used 770 would make a good e-book reader. The N800 is the better Internet Tablet, and is about as capable an e-book reader as the 770.

Yup, I took a look. It's a nice little device. Is there subscription service involved? I have to admit, it seems like a lot more than I need is all. Does this read HTML books and store them?

FBReader (http://www.fbreader.org/) reads many DRM-free formats, including single-file HTML (with images). You can try it out on a Windows or Linux Desktop. For multi-file HTML you either need to convert it to an OEB e-book (add a .opf file) or use Sunrise XP (say) to make a Plucker version. FBReader will also read the MOBI files in the Upload section, and from feedbooks.com (its Kindle EVDO services, e.g. feedbooks.mobi and Kindle guide, also work via WiFi on the 770).

FBReader does not read PDF. There is a (DRM-free) PDF reader for the 770, but I have never used it.

There is no subscription involved, unless you need to pay for access to WiFi.

Keep in mind that reading with eInk is a much, much more natural and pleasant experience than on a back lighted display. I've tried this ebook thing on everything from tablet pcs, PSPs, Nintendo DS's, windows mobile devices and iphones - and I could never tolerate the small screen and eye strain for all that long.

After trying an eInk device, you couldn't make me go back to the others as options.

After trying an eInk device, you couldn't make me go back to the others as options.

I agree, with the exception of material with color illustrations (e.g. SciFi magazines) E-Ink is much better.

However, a used 770 is much cheaper, e.g. $120 on internettablettalk (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15697).

I agree, with the exception of material with color illustrations (e.g. SciFi magazines) E-Ink is much better.

However, a used 770 is much cheaper, e.g. $120 on internettablettalk (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15697).

Good point... didn't realize they were that cheap.

Of course, still... you have to use the thing.

I've encountered the e-ink already. I agree, amazing for looks and etc. Is there the off chance that the Sony reader will eventually be much better with textbooks? I have to be honest it's the one I would really like.


But I'll be checking out that link later at tablet talk. My only thing with the 770 is as nice as it is, all the color etc, but it's really more than I need. I have my laptop and while it's bigger than the 770, it covers my needs for net access at school. But it's on my list still I guess I'd like to see one in action.

Yup, I took a look. It's a nice little device. Is there subscription service involved? I have to admit, it seems like a lot more than I need is all. Does this read HTML books and store them?The Nokia Tablet assumes you will have Wifi available and browse the internet. It comes with a full featured browser, and can take expansion cards for storage.

The 770 uses a version of Opera for the browser. The 800 and 810 use a variant of Firefox. The 770 uses RS-MMC expansion cards. The 800 has two standard SD slots. The 810 uses a micro-SD card.

You ought to be able to store HTML documents on the expansion card, and read them from there.

I'm lusting in the background over the 800. I don't need the included keyboard on the 810 - I'd get a Bluetooth keyboard for that. I do need the storage capacity, and two SD slots that can take SDHC cards are a boon.

I haven't jumped because I need PIM functionality that isn't quite there yet. I need a device that does more than just display ebooks, so a dedicated reader like the Sony or Kindle doesn't work for me.

At the moment, a Tapwave Zodiac 2 (a Palm OS based PDA) is my workhorse device, but a Nokia 800 or an ASUS eee may be the next step.
______
Dennis

Is there the off chance that the Sony reader will eventually be much better with textbooks?

No. The problems with textbooks are down to the limitations of the PDF format, not those of the Reader. PDF is not an eBook format, and attempts to force it to be one are doomed to failure.

I need a device that does more than just display ebooks, so a dedicated reader like the Sony or Kindle doesn't work for me.
Dennis]

I think this is where it's kinda summed up for me. I don't need all the added features, a dedicated reader is enough. BUT, at the same time, I really was hoping to be able have the wifi connection. The main problem with Kindle for me however (beyond the cost) is my concern that they've released this product, have a big campaign, and next thing you know, they no longer support it because it's not selling like they thought, or in six months they let out a new one. I think these are concerns with the Sony reader as well, but Sony is (as an electronics c ompany) far more likely to continue support for their product far more than Amazon. The plus side to the Kindle, is that a website selling books, it is to their benefit to support the product that helps you read the books.


But stupid question, if I get the Kindle or the Sony reader, I'm assuming that you don't HAVE to download only from them for your books, but can get books anyplace as long as your reader supports that format. is that correct?

if I get the Kindle or the Sony reader, I'm assuming that you don't HAVE to download only from them for your books, but can get books anyplace as long as your reader supports that format. is that correct? Many publishers require DRM, and the only place to get DRMed e-books for Sony and Kindle are the Sony Store and Amazon.com respectively. For the Kindle there is a hack that allows some DRMed MOBI files from a few e-book sites to work. The other option is to buy DRMed LIT e-books and break the DRM. The LIT format is one of the most feature rich, and is easily converted to DRM-free e-books for Sony or Kindle.

"DMcCunney:I haven't jumped because I need PIM functionality that isn't quite there yet. I need a device that does more than just display ebooks, so a dedicated reader like the Sony or Kindle doesn't work for me."

I think this is where it's kinda summed up for me. I don't need all the added features, a dedicated reader is enough. BUT, at the same time, I really was hoping to be able have the wifi connection. The main problem with Kindle for me however (beyond the cost) is my concern that they've released this product, have a big campaign, and next thing you know, they no longer support it because it's not selling like they thought, or in six months they let out a new one. I think these are concerns with the Sony reader as well, but Sony is (as an electronics company) far more likely to continue support for their product far more than Amazon. The plus side to the Kindle, is that a website selling books, it is to their benefit to support the product that helps you read the books.If a dedicated reader does work for you, splendid. I'm trying to reduce complexity. I don't want a smartphone with converged PIM functionality because that has form factor compromises I don't like.

The Zodiac has a 3.25" x 2.25" screen in 480x320 resolution. I'd like a larger one. A cell phone is of necessity smaller, with a smaller screen.

I'll happily carry a PDA and a cell phone. I won't carry a PDA, cellphone, and reader.

But stupid question, if I get the Kindle or the Sony reader, I'm assuming that you don't HAVE to download only from them for your books, but can get books anyplace as long as your reader supports that format. Is that correct?Largely. The first question is whether your reader supports the format. The second is how you get the book on the device.

In my case, I have software installed on the Zodiac to read books in eReader, Mobipocket, PDF, HTML (after conversion), text, RTF, and Word formats. I put ebook files directly on an SD card with a USB reader.

I can't handle things like the Sony LRF or Kindle AZW format, but I don't really care. There is far more available now that I want to read in formats I can handle than I have time for.

Other folks here can advise you on the formats supported by the Sony REader and the Kindle, but you have options beyond just content available from their respective stores.
______
Dennis

I can actually read books on my LG from Verizon. But, tiny tiny screen. And really annoying when you are trying to read say, Gibbon's Fall of Rome or something involved like that.


I've been researching this question for months and it seems to get more confusing sometimes ;) I know I'd like to be able to read PDFs, but it's not a deal breaker. I'd also like to be able to use the plucker format on Gutenberg, but again, not a deal breaker. My big thing is, does it handle HTML well, and is it mandatory that I use the books offered by the manufacturer poor college student, can't invest $9.99 each time I want a Kindle book. Or, if I can use a book from anyplace, is it going to be simple to convert it to the format I need in order to install it on my reader. I'm not really that determined to have wifi, it simply would be easier to download books that way, and not have to move files from one electronic to the next. (I'm apparently that lazy ;) )


And of course, storage is a concern. I enjoy reading, otherwise I wouldn't have a personal book collection (I'm on librarything as Jaie if you ever get curious) and I don't want something that'll hold 4 books and then I need to delete in order to store more.

So, now to continue narrowing down I suppose. :D

I can actually read books on my LG from Verizon. But, tiny tiny screen. And really annoying when you are trying to read say, Gibbon's Fall of Rome or something involved like that.Which is one major reason I don't want to try that on a phone.

On my PDA, I can use custom fonts and get a reasonable amount of text on screen.

I've been researching this question for months and it seems to get more confusing sometimes ;) I know I'd like to be able to read PDFs, but it's not a deal breaker. I'd also like to be able to use the plucker format on Gutenberg, but again, not a deal breaker.PDFs are problematic on a Palm OS device. There is a superb open source PDF viewer called PalmPDF, which has handled everything I've thrown at it. But it doesn't handled DRMed PDFs, and most PDFs don't reflow well on small screens, so I get PDFs only when there is no other option.

Plucker requires either a Palm device, or there is a an open source viewer for Plucker documents on Windows Mobile called Vade Mecum.

If you have a browser that can handle the actual PG HTML without requiring conversion, no need for a Plucker file. Just grab the HTML.

My big thing is, does it handle HTML well, and is it mandatory that I use the books offered by the manufacturer poor college student, can't invest $9.99 each time I want a Kindle book. Or, if I can use a book from anyplace, is it going to be simple to convert it to the format I need in order to install it on my reader. I'm not really that determined to have wifi, it simply would be easier to download books that way, and not have to move files from one electronic to the next. (I'm apparently that lazy ;) )I can't tell you about mandatory texts without know which they are. But I'll bet that if they are available in electronic form, it will be PDF.

And of course, storage is a concern. I enjoy reading, otherwise I wouldn't have a personal book collection (I'm on librarything as Jaie if you ever get curious) and I don't want something that'll hold 4 books and then I need to delete in order to store more.Which means you really want something that can store books on an expansion card.

My device has two SD card slots, with a 2GB card in each. Card one has 3,210 Plucker documents occupying about 1.5GB. Card two has 335 Mobipocket documents taking 114MB. Then there is a miscellaneous assortment of files in PDF, text, RTF and Word format.

I like having a full library in my pocket.

So, now to continue narrowing down I suppose. :DI think so.
______
Dennis

If you really need to have text books with you all the time, then the best best is a laptop where the screen can do double duty as a tablet. The iLiad is currently the best eink device for dealing with PDF. It has a touch screen and you can take notes with it. But in most cases, I don't see a computer or reader taking the place of the big heavy hardback text books.

well, this won't help you narrowing things down :rolleyes:, but since you're on a budget you might want to look at the ebookwise 1150. i just got one last month on ebay ; i think it cost me around 130$ including around 30$ shipping (to France... it would be cheaper for you), and while it does have some disadvantages (no e-ink screen, alas, and it's on the heavy side if you want to carry it with you a lot, in my opinion anyway) overall i think it's a brilliant device and quite possibly one of the best designs in ergonomic terms including the more recent ones (but i've never had the opportunity to try any others so i can't make a true comparison).

some excellent features particularly for students :
- price (check on ebay, they are around 100€ with a memory card included)
- dictionary look-up (mine came with the webster's dictionary, many others are available), one of my favorite features
- bookmarks
- search feature
- touch screen and stylus to add notes (you can add a blank page to write more, or just highlight / underline / write in the margins) which is useful for reseach
- very easy to read gutenberg project books on it (that's what i use mine for, mainly), as it can easily convert several different text formats and html.

some drawbacks :
- no wifi
- no e-ink screen
- the memory cards are limited in size (i can't remember how big), but i already have dozens of books on mine and it's only half full, and you can always store the extras on your computer
- battery is not user replaceable, however it does hold a charge for a loooong time (i've only recharged mine once since i got it and i've used it several hours every day).

you can get a lot of good info on this site, that's how i made up my mind. check the wiki for example if you want more specifics.

well, this won't help you narrowing things down :rolleyes:, but since you're on a budget you might want to look at the [B]ebookwise 1150



I have looked at those actually. And it's an option for sure. I liked the looks of them (hey, I'm a female, it's all about looks sometimes ;) ) and the price was great.

To answer something else, I don't *need* to carry texts all the time, but anything I can do to cut down on the amount of texts is a Good Thing™. Textbooks are outrageous expensive in case you aren't in school or don't have kids in school. My own math book was $130 and that didn't cover the lab pack. So it's not about saving money on the device as much as it is saving money on the sheer amount of books I buy, not just for school but for mundane life.

I'm narrowed down to the bookwise and the reader thus far. I have to say for the reader it's all aesthetics.

I'm reading "Analysis and Design of Analog Integrated Circuits" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0471321680/ref=s9_asin_image_1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=1Y5NA0NQV691NT9TR9J9&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=265623401&pf_rd_i=507846) text book on my iliad.
I use zoom func. from iLiad and I'm satisfied from its display result.
The text size is readable and all the equations and graphs are well displaying

...you might want to look at the ebookwise 1150.
I was thinking about making this sugestion as well. These really are the work horses of the last generation of ebook readers (and the only real survivors). Its batery life is only about 15-20 hours if the backlight is turned up to 50-60%. And I have replaced the batteries in my wife's one (its actually an reb1100).

This is the perfect low end work horse to read on. The limit is 128mb. If you have no images the standard 300-400 page fiction paperback is about 500k, so thats 250 books that fit on there.

The last thing you have to consider is how much time you are willing to spend formating your text. Though I love our 1100, It takes more TLC to get a readable book than our sony 505.

The long and the short of it is, if your a technophile then you'll find a way to make any device that you like work... If you just want to read text, this is a great option, If you need the "perfect solution" come back in another 10-20 years and we will be closer.

Hell, all of this is worlds better that what we use to use (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clay_tablet) :D...

I'm not sure that epaper is that much superior to a good backlit screen. The Nokia n800 has an extremely clear, high-res color screen and allows the backlight to be adjusted from very weak to quite strong (the 2008 OS is less accommodating this way, cutting out the very low settings -- which is why I haven't switched). I have a Sony 505 and have the same material on both, but I tend to use the Nokia. It's easier to carry around, is much faster, the buttons are customizable in FB, and in spite of what people say I don't find it harder on the eyes. Note that the screen of the n800 is quite a bit better than the n770.

what we use to use (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clay_tablet) :D...

heh... suddenly my eb1150 seems almost like a feather...

aapezzuto, do you mind my asking how you replaced the batteries in your wife's reb 1100 ? that is one of my biggest worries with mine, what to do when the battery eventually dies, so if it's possible to replace it myself i would love to know how ! i should mention i don't have much experience repairing electronics and i don't think i could resolder anything if that is required, but if you could tell me approximately how you did it (and what kind of battery i need) maybe at worst i could find someone who could do that for me. if it can be done with just a screwdriver i'm pretty sure i could handle it ! perhaps it's not a good idea to hijack this post for that (not really on topic) but if you wanted to explain in a new post that would be brilliant... i'm sure i'm not the only one interested.

as for formatting text for the eb1150, i've only just started to try to learn how to do things like make a clickable TOC but if it's just a question of getting a .doc or .rtf or whatever onto the book, at first i used the filament books site with almost no intervention before hand. the site did the format conversion for me and it really couldn't have been easier, and the result is quite satisfactory i think. maybe my standards are low because i don't know how good it could be... ;)

I really, really love my nokia 770. I geek out with making the background image black and the text glowing green. My favorite feature is that I can change text size, font, and screen orientation on the fly (lay in bed, on stomach, reader close, font small-lounge at starbucks, gadget at arm's length, font large). It's wi-fi often ignores wep keys and let's me surf (don't know how, not going to ask). I literally have 800 books stored in its card. In a pinch it is a laptop replacement for a weekend. I ditched the metal half-case for a slim black aluminium second-skin from box-wave, and it's pretty bad-ass.

I have successfully dropped a bunch of textbook-like pdfs on it. no problems. since it is so compact, it fits well in large coat pockets and small backpack pockets.

Did I mention that it is kinda bad-ass?

When I do finally have the opportunity to pick up an e-ink reader, I am going to go for the Cybook. The kindle is too ungainly for my tastes, and I am still angry with Sony about the whole MiniDisk thing.

OK, I've looked at the N800 and the 770. My question is this, every one I've seen doesn't strike me as a "reader" but more of something like a blackberry. Is this device simply not the same as say, the Sony reader? It's more multi use than *just* a book reader?

The Nokia is an excellent reading device. The web browser and PDF viewer are good. And there's lots of additional apps for this device. NB: The N800 is a bargain right now ($230) on Amazon and buy.com - you can flash upgrade it to the same software as the new N810.

The 810 uses a micro-SD card.

Not quite right - it uses miniSD. You could use smaller formats too with an adapter.

Quite a few people have been mentioning the various versions of the Nokia tablet. Now, I understand this has a 4.13" screen with 800x480 Pixel. If one is willing to make do with that, why not go with a pda? HP will be offering a new Ipaq 214 from sometime in Feb which has a 4"-TFT-display with 64k colors and 480x640. In Europe this will sell for about 330EUR, roughly the same as the N810. But, it will be a much more versatile machine.

Hendrik

If one is willing to make do with that, why not go with a pda? HP will be offering a new Ipaq 214 from sometime in Feb which has a 4"-TFT-display with 64k colors and 480x640. In Europe this will sell for about 330EUR, roughly the same as the N810. But, it will be a much more versatile machine.

Hendrik

Hi Hendrik,

I used an HP iPaq 4900 (which I still have) as a book reader for a couple of years; it has exactly the screen you describe - 4", 640x480, 64k colours. Quite nice to read on, but certainly nothing even approaching as nice as the eInk devices I now use.

Quite a few people have been mentioning the various versions of the Nokia tablet. Now, I understand this has a 4.13" screen with 800x480 Pixel. If one is willing to make do with that, why not go with a pda? HP will be offering a new Ipaq 214 from sometime in Feb which has a 4"-TFT-display with 64k colors and 480x640. In Europe this will sell for about 330EUR, roughly the same as the N810. But, it will be a much more versatile machine.


Why do you think the Ipaq is more versatile?

I am waiting for the N810 I have ordered. being able to program it myself, the built in keyboard and the built in GPS makes it for me much more versatile than a Windows based Ipaq.

...being able to program it myself, the built in keyboard and the built in GPS makes it for me much more versatile than a Windows based Ipaq.
Well, if you can program it to sync with my (and about everbody else's) Outlook and - though in a limited fashion - with Office, run Tom-Tom and MS Reader ... :cool:

Let's face it, most people do not have your ability (or, if they did, the time) to program this or any other device, but rather have it work out of the box. Especially given the fact, that at least in Europe this "raw" N810 is more expensive than the Ipaq. Plus, obviously, if I wanted a GPS, phone, radio, keyboard or cocktail-shaker there are other PPCs to fulfill the obscurest desires ;). I picked this one for the screen real estate.

Hendrik

...nice to read on, but certainly nothing even approaching as nice as the eInk devices I now use.
Well, Harry, I guess you're right, but guess is the keyword here. Many of the devices mentioned here and in other places are not easily available in Germany to buy, let alone look & try. Yes, I know with sufficient determination I could buy one stateside, pay duties and stuff, but no, not really. Secondly, I find the prices for anything beyond the "Ebookwise" (?) - who make a point of not selling outside the US of A - totally out of proportion for a single-purpose device. I wouldn't dream of coughing up 4-500$ for an MP3-player either. And thirdly, and in the same vain, I find these devices to cumbersome for single-purpose - I'm looking for combination gizmos to help me cut down on number of devices plus associated wall-plugs, memory thingies etc. A question of priorities, no doubt. But, show me the 200g, 8" screen device which I can easily mail-order for say 150EUR and I'll take it - single-purpose or not :cool:. (Oh yes, and it's gotta do PDF and MS Reader, as that's what I've already got a lot of.)

Hendrik

Secondly, I find the prices for anything beyond the "Ebookwise" (?) - who make a point of not selling outside the US of A - totally out of proportion for a single-purpose device.

I guess it depends on your priorities, Hendrik. Reading is my main interest - I spend a lot more time reading than I spend watching TV, for example. For me, therefore, spending $500 on an eBook reader is money well-spent, just as many people would think nothing of spending $500 on a TV, which is an equally "single-purpose device".

We all have our own idea about what the important things to spend money on are.

many people would think nothing of spending $500 on a TV, which is an equally "single-purpose device".

excellent analogy !

Quite a few people have been mentioning the various versions of the Nokia tablet. Now, I understand this has a 4.13" screen with 800x480 Pixel. If one is willing to make do with that

"Make do"?

The screen is really very clear and easy to read. There is no "making do". Most people don't realize how good it is until they use one up close.

why not go with a pda? HP will be offering a new Ipaq 214 from sometime in Feb which has a 4"-TFT-display with 64k colors and 480x640. In Europe this will sell for about 330EUR, roughly the same as the N810. But, it will be a much more versatile machine.

Define "more versatile". The Nokias all run Linux and have active developer communities which makes them very versatile IMHO.

Let's face it, most people do not have your ability (or, if they did, the time) to program this or any other device, but rather have it work out of the box. Especially given the fact, that at least in Europe this "raw" N810 is more expensive than the Ipaq.

"Raw"? Actually its a very polished device with a great browser. There's nothing "raw" about it. Most people would *not* know it runs Linux because it does not look "raw". Sounds like all your posts are made without any actual serious experience using the Nokia devices.

As I mentioned earlier, the N800 is cheaper than any iPaq and it can be flash upgraded to the same software as the N810.

I think it is fair to say that a Windows Mobile 6 device like the iPAQ 214 is more "versatile" in that it has a wider range of software available than the Nokia Internet Tablets. This includes a wider range of e-book reader software. However, the Nokia's have enough software available to make them very capable for many application areas. Also, 800 pixels wide is much better for some web pages than 640.

The Nokia's 4.1" screen is almost exactly 1/2 the size of a 6" E-Ink screen, but its pixels per inch is higher and it is in color. For e-books, a Nokia would typically be in landscape mode and you then have the same width as the 6" screen but need twice as many (very fast) page turns.

Quite a few people have been mentioning the various versions of the Nokia tablet. Now, I understand this has a 4.13" screen with 800x480 Pixel. If one is willing to make do with that, why not go with a pda? HP will be offering a new Ipaq 214 from sometime in Feb which has a 4"-TFT-display with 64k colors and 480x640. In Europe this will sell for about 330EUR, roughly the same as the N810. But, it will be a much more versatile machine.

HendrikHP makes good devices. From what I've seen so far, I'm impressed by the HP210.

But it depends upon what you need to do. If PIM functionality is a requirement, the Nokia is not the best choice. Native PIM functionality isn't really there yet. (Though you can run the Access Garnet Virtual Machine and get "oldstyle" Palm PIMs with a quirk or two.)

If PIM functionality isn't a requirement, I'd go with the Nokia. Of course, I'm biased: I vastly prefer Linux under the hood to Windows Mobile.
______
Dennis

I think it is fair to say that a Windows Mobile 6 device like the iPAQ 214 is more "versatile" in that it has a wider range of software available than the Nokia Internet Tablets. This includes a wider range of e-book reader software. However, the Nokia's have enough software available to make them very capable for many application areas. Also, 800 pixels wide is much better for some web pages than 640.

The Nokia's 4.1" screen is almost exactly 1/2 the size of a 6" E-Ink screen, but its pixels per inch is higher and it is in color. For e-books, a Nokia would typically be in landscape mode and you then have the same width as the 6" screen but need twice as many (very fast) page turns.

I really like my new N810 and I am very impressed how good the standard programs work. Before I got the N810 the Cybook was the best gadget I had ever bought but now it has competition. And just installing openssh get you something you can log into which for me is very useful. And getting my ebooks to the N810 was just a checkout using subversion.

I think it is better to read in portrait mode since you can use a smaller font and in landscape mode you then get too long lines.

Getting information from pdf file when you have scrolling and fast zoom is also very easy. My use for this is bus time tables.

But it depends upon what you need to do. If PIM functionality is a requirement, the Nokia is not the best choice. Native PIM functionality isn't really there yet. (Though you can run the Access Garnet Virtual Machine and get "oldstyle" Palm PIMs with a quirk or two.)

If PIM functionality isn't a requirement, I'd go with the Nokia. Of course, I'm biased: I vastly prefer Linux under the hood to Windows Mobile.


I have now tested GPE (PIM applications) on my N810. It will work for me and since I do not synchronize to other applications I will not have any problem with that. The program is not as good as the Palm alternative but having nore than 16 categories and being able to assign more than one category to items is very useful.

Seems like the sh** hit the fan(boy) :eek:
"Make do"? The screen is really very clear and easy to read. There is no "making do".
Given that most threads here, and this one, concentrate on e-ink devices with 6"+ displays, I thought the expression would be appropriate because of its factual accuracy. It was absolutely clear from the context, that I was thinking size not clarity, no reason whatsoever to get all worked up.

Define "more versatile".
Don't you have a dictionary running on your cutesy Nokia ;)? How about "having or capable of many uses" for a start. PDAs, as Wallcraft kindly pointed out, have multiple uses out of the box. The Ns may easily be more flexible, in that you can write your own code for them, or use whatever is our there in the community. But I think you will agree (then again, maybe not...:rolleyes:) that the majority out there prefers ready-made from recognizable sources instead of rough-around-the-edges-stuff from "active developer communities". The majority may not know what it's missing, but c'est la vie. Then again, I can imagine for someone who can program or likes, maybe even prefers, open source this may well be a dream-machine.

"Raw"? Actually its a very polished device with a great browser. There's nothing "raw" about it. Most people would *not* know it runs Linux because it does not look "raw".
"Raw" in the sense that while it may have a marvellous browser, most other things have to be added on from the a.m. sources, out of the box it is an unpolished diamond at best, if that expression suits you better.

...without any actual serious experience using the Nokia devices"
So actual would not be sufficient, it has to be serious, too :chinscratch:. But, you're spot on. Unfortunately, I do not have the time nor funds to first buy everything to then find out it doesn't do what I expected it to. Rest assured I spent about 3-4 hours reading it up on the web. I found out the PIM options available where rough-hewn indeed and would not sync with Outlook. It doesn't run any well-known, reliable navigation. End of story for me. (Plus the praised reader doesn't do bookmarks if I got that right.)

The cheaper N800, to round this up, is not available in Europe anymore. Either the situation is different where you live or you have to get them on Ebay, which again, is not an option for many people, though it kind of goes well with the open source theme.

I am sorry that this has strayed (strewn?) rather far from the original topic. This is not the thread and probably not even the forum to discuss the merits of PPCs vs web-tablets - Hendrik

Don't you have a dictionary running on your cutesy Nokia ;)? How about "having or capable of many uses" for a start. PDAs, as Wallcraft kindly pointed out, have multiple uses out of the box. The Ns may easily be more flexible, in that you can write your own code for them, or use whatever is our there in the community. But I think you will agree (then again, maybe not...:rolleyes:) that the majority out there prefers ready-made from recognizable sources instead of rough-around-the-edges-stuff from "active developer communities". The majority may not know what it's missing, but c'est la vie. Then again, I can imagine for someone who can program or likes, maybe even prefers, open source this may well be a dream-machine.


Well, I have not dicovered enything I could do on my PDA that I cannot do on my N810 yet and that is only using programs that are easily downloaded from standard places. So what kind of functionality are you talking about that is missing?

You are right the synchonization is a problem but it seems to be on the way to be solved. I could not synchonize with my Palm PDA since I do not use Windows and the Linux programs was not working at least not when I bought the PDA.

Since you are connected all the time to the new through WiFi or through bluetooth via your phone you do not have to have all the funcitonality locally. I started to look at how to put the whole WikiPedia on my N810 today but after while I decided not to bother with it since I always have net.