View Full Version : Book title on every page


p3aul
05-17-2012, 04:23 PM
Is there a way to do this, like the paper books do? I am referring to an epub that has already been created or converted.
Thanks,
Paul

theducks
05-17-2012, 04:29 PM
Is there a way to do this, like the paper books do? I am referring to an epub that has already been created or converted.
Thanks,
Paul

Add a Background Image? (and probably kill readability :rolleyes: )

There are no 'Pages' unless you kill reflow by using Images of the original page.

Toxaris
05-18-2012, 12:21 AM
In theory, yes. That is what the CSS attribute oeb-page-head is for. So far the good news. The bad news is, that none (AFAK) reading systems actually support it.

huebi
05-18-2012, 01:31 AM
In theory, yes. That is what the CSS attribute oeb-page-head is for. So far the good news. The bad news is, that none (AFAK) reading systems actually support it.

Well, i guess its not even in the epUb STandard and the question has nothing to do with SIGIL :angry:. Please ask in the ePub Forum, this is the forum dealing with ePub questions! I cant believe that its just so difficult to find a correct (sub)forum for this.

Toxaris
05-18-2012, 08:09 AM
The oeb-page-head IS in the ePUB v2 standard (and also v3). It is just a decision from the manufacturers like Adobe that it is not supported.

And yes, this should be in the ePUB forum.

theducks
05-18-2012, 10:23 AM
I agree with Huebi, does not involve Sigil
Moving to EPUB

p3aul
05-25-2012, 05:34 PM
Ok I have about had it with these Net-Nannies! If ya'll weren't so full of self importance you can't let an honest question get bogged down in your infernal meddling I'll find another forum! thducks you can kiss my ***!

DiapDealer
05-25-2012, 06:03 PM
The question was answered:
Yes, the ePub spec allows for such a thing (oeb-page-head), but the manufacturers of the various reading systems choose not to support it.

PeterT
05-25-2012, 08:11 PM
@p3aul: Have you considered that one reason for moving it, is that people more knowledgeable about the issue you are asking might hang in THIS forum rather than where it was originally?

Calling people net-nannies for trying to help by moving the question to a more appropriate forum is rather immature.

p3aul
05-25-2012, 09:19 PM
The question was asked in Sigil because that was the app i was going to use to put the title of the book on every page. See your moderator asked not if I thought the question might be better asked in another forum but arbitrarily put it where *they* thought it belonged. So you see people on the epub forum, probably having no reason to know anything about Sigil would not know if Sigil could do what I asked, which was why I asked in the Sigil forum and not the Epub forum. But who said I was going to use a hardware reader? there are other readers that exist as software that runs on different OS. Before they jump the gun and put it where they want, they should have contacted me. The problem is these "Net Nannies(my word for *all* forum moderators) are interested in assigning posts to where, in their opinion, they belong. The problem is, these Net nannies know so little of the problems(questions asked) they don't really know where they belong. Wouldn't it be wiser, in theis case to let the original poster decide? Just because they have a question to ask doesn't mean they are complete beginners!

And just because I disagree with what seems the majority doesn't mean that I'm immature, just right.

pholy
05-25-2012, 09:29 PM
You'd be surprised at how many people who know all about epub also use Sigil....

But I'm not one of them. Maybe some day again.

p3aul
05-25-2012, 09:40 PM
Of course there are but I was talking about moderators no the people who work with sigil and epub every day. Moderators are just people who like to feel important. That's why I call them "Net Nannies". They want to police everything and enjoy being in charge. If they knew anything, hey would give advise. About the only time you here from them is when they make the pronouncement that they have moved a post because "they" think it belongs in a different forum. I expect any minute to be shut down and this post "Closed"

DiapDealer
05-25-2012, 09:49 PM
So the fact that your question was answered before the thread was ever moved is irrelevant?

You're supposed to be able to achieve what you want to do to in theory... but you can't in practice. That's really about it. It has nothing to do a "majority" or hardware vs software reading systems. The oeb-page-head/foot spec just isn't being supported/honored.

p3aul
05-25-2012, 10:04 PM
Well this isn't the forum where I put the question so I will *not* discuss it here. I happen to like Sigil and it's features and was wondering if the feature I wanted was one of them. I can't control the fact that my post was moved but because it is *not* relevant to this particular forum, I refuse to discuss it here. A Net Nannie can close this thread if he wishes, I will not post in this thread on this forum.

JSWolf
05-25-2012, 10:15 PM
Well this isn't the forum where I put the question so I will *not* discuss it here. I happen to like Sigil and it's features and was wondering if the feature I wanted was one of them. I can't control the fact that my post was moved but because it is *not* relevant to this particular forum, I refuse to discuss it here. A Net Nannie can close this thread if he wishes, I will not post in this thread on this forum.

The answer is yes, you can use Sigil to set up what you want. But ADE will not display it.

p3aul
05-25-2012, 10:28 PM
thanks. How?

Jellby
05-26-2012, 06:25 AM
Use code view to add, at the beginning of each file, something like this:

<div class="header">Book Title</div>

and add to the CSS styles:

div.header { display: oeb-page-head; }


(In Bookeen readers, you can just enable page headers, and you'll have the book title on each page, regardless of how the book is coded.)

p3aul
05-26-2012, 12:20 PM
Ok Thanks!

Doitsu
05-26-2012, 01:18 PM
You could also create a fixed-layout ePub (http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Fixed_layout_ePub). I.e. an ePub where each page is hard-coded as a separate .xhtml file. This would give you absolute freedom about the placement of headers and footers.
However, there are several downsides: Fixed-layout ePubs are more time-consuming to create than regular ePubs, there are several different fixed-layout flavors and relatively few readers fully support them.

Toxaris
05-26-2012, 02:16 PM
And also, there are very few readers that can read fixed layout ePUB. iBooks is one of the few.

Jellby
05-26-2012, 02:42 PM
Fixed-layout ePubs are an aberration, in my opinion. If you need fixed-layout, use PDF.

p3aul
05-27-2012, 09:51 PM
Fixed-layout ePubs are an aberration, in my opinion. If you need fixed-layout, use PDF.
PDF, now there's and Idea to experiment with!. FWIW, I like all the suggestions. I love to play around with ebooks! I like changing the font, etc.. I could even change the ending to a story if I want. Try that with a paper or hardback! I found a good book on Project gutenberg, for my granddaughter, I changed all occurrences of the main protagonists name to the name of my granddaughter. She loved it!

Hitch
05-27-2012, 10:22 PM
Well, that refusal to discuss the topic on this (appropriate) forum seems to have been short-lived.

What the OP seems not to comprehend is that the method of creating the "page header," and the software used to create the ePUB (whether Sigil, Calibre, etc.) is irrelevant; the fact the the CSS is unsupported across the board, by ePUB DEVICES, is the issue. Sigil is, and was, utterly irrelevant to the question, the topic, and the answer.

@P3aul: the vast majority of epub readers (people) are not happy with "wasted space" being used by page headers, as they figure they are intelligent enough to know what book they are reading. It's like the "extra line" between paragraphs created by writers hitting the "enter" key twice before starting the next paragraph. I suspect that while most ePUB-folks continue to object to wasting space this way, most devices will continue to not support it. Apple provides a "page header," but it pulls the information from the metadata, NOT the CSS, so whatever you put there would be overriden; ditto Kindle8. Again: to be clear, this has nothing whatsoever to do with Sigil.

Hitch

DaleDe
05-28-2012, 05:22 PM
Fixed-layout ePubs are an aberration, in my opinion. If you need fixed-layout, use PDF.

There are supported in the ePub 3 specification so I suspect they are here to stay. They are easier to control than PDF and are much cheaper to build than buying Acrobat from Adobe.

Dale

p3aul
05-28-2012, 07:44 PM
Thank you(most of you) for the helpful posts anyway!

JSWolf
05-28-2012, 07:46 PM
There are supported in the ePub 3 specification so I suspect they are here to stay. They are easier to control than PDF and are much cheaper to build than buying Acrobat from Adobe.

Dale

But at the moment, we don't have readers that handle ePub 3. So for now, it won't work.

DaleDe
05-28-2012, 08:11 PM
Thank you(most of you) for the helpful posts anyway!

I have built a new wiki page on how headers and footers are supposed to work. headers and footers. Interestingly enough they did work in the original OEB standard that preceded ePub and were supported by early eBook readers including LIT from Microsoft which conformed to this earlier standard. It is not clear why this wasn't carried forward except that Adobe chose not to support it for some reason. Anyway I hope this is helpful.

DaleDe
05-28-2012, 08:14 PM
But at the moment, we don't have readers that handle ePub 3. So for now, it won't work.

Well, that is not true. Both Kindle KF8 and Apple iBooks claim to support ePub 3 and we have Azardi for PCs. There are more on the way but I have no idea if these readers really have this support as they are supposed to. Perhaps if we keep on yelling the manufacturers and programmers will finally listen.

Dale

DaleDe
05-28-2012, 08:17 PM
And also, there are very few readers that can read fixed layout ePUB. iBooks is one of the few.

There are more and more readers with fixed layout ePub support including Kobo which uses iBooks approach, Barnes and Noble with its own version and Amazon in its KF8 format. Hopefully the ePub 3 standard will prevail in the long run but there are still likely to be extensions to the standard.

Dale

p3aul
05-28-2012, 08:31 PM
Thanks, Dale. I will certainly visit your wiki! But be careful when you disagree. i just got a warning from a Net Nannie when I responded to an ill-mannered poster who sent a sarcastic post to me. and now i will probably have this post deleted also. Oh well!

DiapDealer
05-28-2012, 08:36 PM
Thanks, Dale. I will certainly visit your wiki! But be careful when you disagree. i just got a warning from a Net Nannie when I responded to an ill-mannered poster who sent a sarcastic post to me.
Now that's some funny stuff.

DaleDe
05-28-2012, 08:42 PM
Thanks, Dale. I will certainly visit your wiki! But be careful when you disagree. i just got a warning from a Net Nannie when I responded to an ill-mannered poster who sent a sarcastic post to me. and now i will probably have this post deleted also. Oh well!

I have an advantage in that I am a moderator! It is the MobileRead wiki and it contains lots of useful stuff.

Dale

p3aul
05-28-2012, 08:50 PM
Well this has certainly turned into a tempest in a teapot! What started out as a question to see if by using sigil, I could place the book title on every page. it turned into the question that an OP had the right to ask a question in what ever forum he chose. They won, they took their football and went home. quite frankly, I'm tired of the whole mess. I don't even have the right to close the thread. Since i don't frequent this forum at all, till now, I will bid you adieu for I do not expect to see you again.
Thanks,
Paul :rofl:

Hitch
05-29-2012, 03:21 AM
Well this has certainly turned into a tempest in a teapot! What started out as a question to see if by using sigil, I could place the book title on every page. it turned into the question that an OP had the right to ask a question in what ever forum he chose. They won, they took their football and went home. quite frankly, I'm tired of the whole mess. I don't even have the right to close the thread. Since i don't frequent this forum at all, till now, I will bid you adieu for I do not expect to see you again.
Thanks,
Paul :rofl:

The tempest--and its associated teapot--is all yours. You posted in a forum not likely to get you useful answers, for, as I endeavored to explain very politely, the query has to do with the overall ePUB format and devices, NOT Sigil, nor how the ePUB was created-only how the CSS is used, which is universal, not "epub-maker-specific." When the mods moved it, it wasn't a "spanking;" they moved it so that MORE people with expertise in ePUB could answer the question. It's your perception that you were somehow "disrespected" or "net-nannie'd" that's the issue.

What is this, two posters we've had in the last month, with this type of vitriolic reaction, no matter how many people have endeavored to help? Man, it's turning into an epidemic. It's unfortunate that so many people seem to have this acrimonious, instant response to any attempts by those who DO know the answers to help them.

Frankly, makes me want to say--why bother? If this is going to be the norm, I'd rather just chat with the others here who are serious, and can spit-ball answers, than take or read abuse from those that don't. What's the upside for answering noob questions, if this is what to be expected?

Hitch

Jellby
05-29-2012, 05:48 AM
There are supported in the ePub 3 specification so I suspect they are here to stay. They are easier to control than PDF and are much cheaper to build than buying Acrobat from Adobe.

But PDF gives truly fixed layout, while fixed ePub is only semi-fixed (you don't control exact font size and linebreaks, I suspect), which has the potential to look awful.

As for creating a PDF, there are tons of free tools, and anything that can print can give you a PDF. My preferred tool would be the TeX family.

p3aul
05-29-2012, 05:49 AM
123456

DaleDe
05-29-2012, 01:00 PM
But PDF gives truly fixed layout, while fixed ePub is only semi-fixed (you don't control exact font size and linebreaks, I suspect), which has the potential to look awful.

As for creating a PDF, there are tons of free tools, and anything that can print can give you a PDF. My preferred tool would be the TeX family.

Well we are drifting off topic but of course I would agree PDF is truly fixed format. You can force fully fixed in ePub fixed layout if you wish. I believe the main difference is that ePub is aimed at eBook devices while PDF is aimed at a piece of paper. While it is possible to adjust PDF to the eBook size this is very seldom done while it is required for fixed layout ePub. I really like the ePub 3 method of allowing the user to mix fixed layout and floating layout within the same document. I see real value in this. ePub three also allows you to force the portrait/landscape orientation for a particular page. This opens lots of possibilities.

Most available PDF tools make lousy electronic documents without metadata or TOC, they are truly intended to be printed IMHO.

Dale

Hitch
05-29-2012, 11:22 PM
Well we are drifting off topic but of course I would agree PDF is truly fixed format. You can force fully fixed in ePub fixed layout if you wish. I believe the main difference is that ePub is aimed at eBook devices while PDF is aimed at a piece of paper. While it is possible to adjust PDF to the eBook size this is very seldom done while it is required for fixed layout ePub. I really like the ePub 3 method of allowing the user to mix fixed layout and floating layout within the same document. I see real value in this. ePub three also allows you to force the portrait/landscape orientation for a particular page. This opens lots of possibilities.

Most available PDF tools make lousy electronic documents without metadata or TOC, they are truly intended to be printed IMHO.

Dale

We ARE off-topic, but the original topic turned tedious, anyway. We use "fixed-format" for iBooks, Nook (where it's called "ePIB," mind you, and "secretly" made with a clone of iAuthor) and the Fire, for children's books, and for that, I really like it.

I also think it could be useful for LOTS of books we get in here that I just stare at, knowing we'll never get them to work in a reflowable format. Who am I to say that so-and-so's book isn't worth publishing? Fixed-format, reflowable...guys, what's important, what we have to think about and care about, volunteers at DP or disgusting scummy commercial slaves like moi, is that unlike the paper books that we all so painstakingly proof at DP, in an attempt to preserve our written past (and lord knows, they are not all "worth" saving)--is that what we do HERE and now should and will be preserved forever. 100 years from now, barring disaster, no one at DP will have to wonder if that fixed-format kids' book I just did says "fox" or "fix." ;-) Just a thought.

Hitch

DaleDe
05-29-2012, 11:38 PM
A 100 years? Better print them on paper. Hopefully ePub 3 will standardize the mess or maybe just adopt iBooks method since it is cloned by B&N and officially supported on the Kobo Vox. I wondered what the B&N format was. And it isn't supported by their own authoring tool.

eping
05-30-2012, 12:05 AM
I think it's a simple issue with reading app.
There's author and book title on every page in iBooks,
Why ePub file itself?

DaleDe
05-30-2012, 12:24 AM
I think it's a simple issue with reading app.
There's author and book title on every page in iBooks,
Why ePub file itself?

Certainly the reading app can add whatever it wants to the screen. Apple iBooks can display all kinds of things and you can click and it will go away. But this is not under the authors control which may be ok. But then everybody doesn't own an iPad.

Hitch
05-30-2012, 02:40 AM
A 100 years? Better print them on paper. Hopefully ePub 3 will standardize the mess or maybe just adopt iBooks method since it is cloned by B&N and officially supported on the Kobo Vox. I wondered what the B&N format was. And it isn't supported by their own authoring tool.

No, it's not. It's called the "NookKids'" tool, but it's iAuthor. So a) you have to have a later-model Mac to run it; b) you have to be an approved NookKids' production house to upload it (an author can't make one and upload it at PubIt, in other words), and c) it's obviously not transportable across platforms.

My comment about the 100 years was really meant to reference the fact that we're all here proofing old texts at DP, because of the degradation. Sure, the standards in ePUB, etc., change near-weekly; but data is data, and I believe it will still be easier 100 years from now to decipher Jellby's Prince and Pauper than to try to scrape it off of the paper the old copies are on now! I've nearly gone blind trying to infer some of that stuff at DP.

Hitch

Jellby
05-30-2012, 07:41 AM
Most available PDF tools make lousy electronic documents without metadata or TOC, they are truly intended to be printed IMHO.

So... because there are defective tools with defaults that have to be changed, we invent a new format? In spite of the fact that there are other very good tools? It doesn't look very intelligent to me.

The only advantage I see to fixed-format ePub is that the source code is easily seen and modifiable (something like the difference between compiled and interpreted programming languages). But as soon as you mixed fixed and "flexible" content, you're playing with fire. And this may happen by simply letting the user (or reading app) to change the font face or size, which can break alignment and cause havoc in a fixed layout.

(sorry for continuing the off-topic)

Freeshadow
06-01-2012, 10:35 AM
I think it's a simple issue with reading app.
There's author and book title on every page in iBooks,
Why ePub file itself?
A very short-sighted approach of yours.
What if the author intents to display other info than the title, as header or footer?