Hi!

I just finished my personal version(s) of an "Italian-to-English" Dictionary. (EDIT1: Two different fonts used.)

EDIT2: There are also two versions "English-to-Italian" further down: (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7748&d=1197408251)

I got the original text files from www.freedict.com, converted it to html, formatted/added items, imported it into Acrobat 5 (not: Reader), made some smaller changes and saved it as PDF.

The file is meant for my SONY PRS500. Size is according. (EDIT3: Engl.>Ital. has page numbers.)
Navigation of the 10,000-plus words is by jumping to

a) letters (A,B,C... - rare letters moved to end)
b) list of starting-words, 3 "pages" apart (a,aiuto,amore,auto...) => max. 3 page turns per word (IF contained)

BUT it is a normal PDF, so you can read it like any other...

IMPORTANT: I used freedicts ORIGINAL text list -- which means all THEIR faults (e.g. some doublets etc.) are in it AS IS.

If anybody is intersted in this (so far very personal) projects, has any questions or remarks (have pity on me!) I'll be glad to discuss 'em.

Hope it's of use to someone "out" there!


Clemens

Sorry - first upload

Hi! This version uses a font like Times.
The Upload in my next reply contains the font "Verdana" which I find to be better readable on my Sony Reader ...

Sorry.

Edit: I herewith withdraw my previously attached PDF dictionary file ("fdItaEng_Dizionario.pdf").

I had asked for feedback on their usability but only got posts from exactly *T*W*O* members - as compared to over 1,400 downloads...

(I don't mind anybody else placing any of these PDFs in a new thread. But I won't engage in this project any more.)

Just convinced my acrobat to include Verdana.
(I think "her" much better readable on eink...)

Sorry.

Edit: I herewith withdraw my previously attached PDF dictionary file ("Dizio_Italnglese.pdf").

I had asked for feedback on their usability but only got posts from exactly *T*W*O* members - as compared to over 1,400 downloads...

(I don't mind anybody else placing any of these PDFs in a new thread. But I won't engage in this project any more.)

Salve!

Non parlo Italiano molto bene, ma eccoli:
una versione del dizionario mio per gli Italiani...

Well. I hope someone can use this dictionary.
I improved the navigation (relative to the Italian>English version) to use fewer cursor moves.
My current estimation is ZERO moves of the small cursor to arrive at "a" (uno) up to an average of 10 moves (NOT page turns - which are very slow).
This average can be nearly halved if you move your cursor *UP* initially to get to items in the lower half of any screen...

I'd be grateful for any remarks on usability!
Clemens

(P.s.: further down this page http://www.mobileread.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7748&d=1197408251 is a slightly improved version. Words are listed below each other and got page numbers attached.)

Sorry - mi dispiace...

Edit: I herewith withdraw my previously attached PDF dictionary file ("Dizio_IngItaliano3.pdf").

I had asked for feedback on their usability but only got posts from exactly *T*W*O* members - as compared to over 1,400 downloads...

(I don't mind anybody else placing any of these PDFs in a new thread. But I won't engage in this project any more.)

This is very useful; I will use it on my Cybook which is the same size as the Sony Reader. I am supposed to get i back from Bookeen on Monday where it is actually for reparation.
Meanwhile, would it be possible to do a similar job for an Italian-German dictionary by using this source? http:http://infoportal-deutschland.aus-stade.de/Italienisch///
Just a question.

Hello Maximilian,

actually I've been looking for a suitable Italienisch-Deutsch dictionary file.

I looked into your recommended website. Quite impressive.

I also mailed to the site owner to ask about copyright issues - otherwise I would not be able to distribute a selfmade PDF file in this forum.

But I will create an Italienisch-deutsches Wörterbuch auf jeden fall, denn das würde mir bei schwierigeren/selteneren Vokabeln selbst auch besser helfen!

An Freunde/gute Bekannte dürfte ich das aber zum Eigengebrauch aber wohl schon weitergeben...

;)

Viele Grüße, Clemens


P.s.: the German text above means that I am allowed to pass on a privately created dictionary to close friends even if copyrights may be an issue - according to German law.
(It is legal to make up to seven copies of music and give 'em to friends. But: no money may be received. These friends again have the right to pass this music to seven of THEIR friends - without financial gain! And so on... Nice, isn't it?!?)

Hello Clemens,
I have now my Gen3 back and installed your dictionary. It fits superbly well on the screen. However, the present version of my Cybook does not support hyperlinks in PDF. Hence, I cannot navigate within the dictionary by using the hyperlinked words of your index. I can only move to specific pages. I would thus need for each of your indexed words the corresponding page number. On the computer it is of course quite easy to find these page numbers but I cannot go into your document to annotate it. Any solution?
Tanti saluti
Peter

Hi Peter!

Can you tell me what "exactly" would help you BEST?

I am anyway planning to re-format the starting pages (with letters/words) because I noticed that it would be more intuitive to list the "letter-words" below each other - as I have to move the minute "joystick" of the Sony PRS500 UP and DOWN to reach other hyperlinks (=words).

As I can easily see in Acrobat where these links point to I might as well append page numbers (in brackets, e.g.).

But please tell me, what would be best for YOU!

Salve da Francoforte! Ciao, Clemens

As I can easily see in Acrobat where these links point to I might as well append page numbers (in brackets, e.g.)


This is exactly what I would need.

Ciao Peter

Hi Peter,

here is a version with page numbers attached (to links).
How do you normally navigate on your Gen3 reader?
Is it only in PDFs that you cannot hyperjump? (and what do you do instead...)
If so, in what formats CAN you jump?
I know i might find oiut answers in this forum, but it might be easier for you to just write down two sentences for me - thanks!

(I'm still interested in feedback from you and others!)

Have a nice evening/day, Clemens

Sorry.

Edit: I herewith withdraw my previously attached PDF dictionary file ("Dizio_IngItaliano4.pdf").

I had asked for feedback on their usability but only got posts from exactly *T*W*O* members - as compared to over 1,400 downloads...

(I don't mind anybody else placing any of these PDFs in a new thread. But I won't engage in this project any more.)

Is it only in PDFs that you cannot hyperjump? (and what do you do instead...)


Hi Clemens,
Yes, its only in PDF that one cannot jump to hyperlinks. This may change in the future but at present it holds. One can only use page turns or input page numbers with a little matrix that pops up and than move to the selected page. It is quite cumbersome to tab in the numbers on the matrix but its the only method to navigate within a PDF document.

Your dictionary works quite well know. However, I find the first 4 pages not particularly useful. It would be easier to start immediately with the letter A (after a cover page of course), then tap through page by page to the letter one is looking for.
Even better would be - if at all possible - to have the maximum of letters with indexed words on the first pages in very small print, i.e. to have all indexed words with page number for the letters A to D on the first page, E to L on the second page, etc.
However, these wishes are based on what would be optimal for the Gen 3 which might not be the best way to use the dictionary on your device.

Will you also produce the Italian/English version with page numbers?

Kind regards

Peter

Hi Peter,

I might do the Italian/English version later with page numbers, but that's not top priority for me (and apart from you I didn't get any feedback yet).

Those first 4 pages actually are absolutely necessary if you are forced to move by hyperlinks. Each "step" halves the page turns later on...
But I might do a special Peter-version ;) and skip these 4 at the beginning. Putting ALL 200+ word-links on one page would take a VERY small font, wouldn't it? Though, letters A-to-Z could be fitted on page one as kind of "Contents" - so you would know where you find all As, Bs etc. Would that help?

Can you tell me in what formats you can navigate with hyperlinks on Gen3?
Which ones can you use at all, and which ones work best?
(It make sense to do a dictionary that Gen3 people can hyperjump with...)

I'll see to do this no-page-4-version for you tomorrow.

Looking forward to your (and others') feedback,

Clemens

Can you tell me in what formats you can navigate with hyperlinks on Gen3?


Mobi/PRC is the short answer.
Cheers Peter

Withdrawal of dictionary PDFs ...

Hello Peter,

this morning I threw out "your" first 4 pages. Then I collected some letters ESPECIALLY for your request...

This attached version is pre-gamma I'd say in its navigational capacities - but maybe what you need...
Please tellme if it's of any use to you.

Have a nice evening, Clemens


Oh dear; you have gone into all this trouble for me but as you have thrown out the first 4 pages the listed page numbers do no longer correspond to those of the actual document. One has to substract 4 pages to find the indexed word. Please leave it as it is, I will use it by mentally shifting 4 pages backward.
Thank you for all your efforts.
Peter

Hi Peter!

yes, I admit I took some trouble in this PDF file. But it's mostly because I'd like to know how other eReaders work - I might get me another model sooner or later.
Just now I'm still waiting for touchscreen capabilities - without having to pay 600+ euros for it ...

By the way: what I momentarily do is a version of an Italian-to-German dictionary (from the site you linked me to). But 150,000 words is really too much for a pdf. So I'm about to throw out more than 100,000 of them (mainly by using grep to eliminate all "-o,-i,-a,-iamo,-ate,-anno" words etc.).
That will take some time - and I can't spend more than 1-3 hours daily on that.

See you, Clemens

Hi Peter!

yes, I admit I took some trouble in this PDF file. But it's mostly because I'd like to know how other eReaders work - I might get me another model sooner or later.
Just now I'm still waiting for touchscreen capabilities - without having to pay 600+ euros for it ...

By the way: what I momentarily do is a version of an Italian-to-German dictionary (from the site you linked me to). But 150,000 words is really too much for a pdf. So I'm about to throw out more than 100,000 of them (mainly by using grep to eliminate all "-o,-i,-a,-iamo,-ate,-anno" words etc.).
That will take some time - and I can't spend more than 1-3 hours daily on that.

See you, Clemens




If you take out all the inflections of the words you strongly reduce the usefulness of the dictionary for ebook reading, at least on devices which have no word input possibility. For instance, on the Cybook Gen 3 there is a look-up function for mobi books where you can obtain the translation of a word in the text you are just reading. But it must be the exact grammatical form of this very word; if you select the word mangiamo and it is not in the dictionary you will not get a result. There is no way to try mangiare for which there would be of course a translation.
Cheers
Peter

If you take out all the inflections of the words you strongly reduce the usefulness of the dictionary for ebook reading, at least on devices which have no word input possibility. For instance, on the Cybook Gen 3 there is a look-up function for mobi books where you can obtain the translation of a word in the text you are just reading. But it must be the exact grammatical form of this very word; if you select the word mangiamo and it is not in the dictionary you will not get a result.

Well, but what I do is a dictionary in PDF format. Does the lookup function jump to words IN A PDF directly? If so - you wouldn't need any page numbers on my dictionaries, would you?
That would of course be a reason to keep all 150,000 in it...
But, alas, my Sony does not support any "lookupping"...
Do you happen to know if the PRS505 (new model) does support this?

See you later, Clemens

...one more thing: I just updated (exchanged) the dictionary...4p.pdf file to a one with FOUR empty pages after the A-Z pages! This way you'll save a lot of computing power...

...
I'd like to remind those about 360-400 members from MobileRead.com who downloaded one of the Italian<->English dictionaries that I would appreciate it VERY much if I got some feedback on usability or UNusability of them!

I am planning to release further versions with more language-combinations (Italian<>???) - but probably won't do this if there seems to be no REAL interest at all ...

(hope someone has subscribed to this !???????)

...
I'd like to remind those about 360-400 members from MobileRead.com who downloaded one of the Italian<->English dictionaries that I would appreciate it VERY much if I got some feedback on usability or UNusability of them!

I am planning to release further versions with more language-combinations (Italian<>???) - but probably won't do this if there seems to be no REAL interest at all ...

(hope someone has subscribed to this !???????)


I am very interested in an Italian-English dictionary. I will have a look at it, if this will work on a Cybook and let you know.


Regards,
Adelheid

A dictionary would be of most use on my Cybook when it is accessible through the lookup function.

I have done some searching and found that the lookup function on the Cybook works when you have a mobipocket formatted dictionary available. It does not see a pdf as a source.

A mobipocket dictionary can be created with Mobipocket Creator, using html tags specific to Mobipocket dictionaries. I might try to use your pdf as input for such a dictionary, to see if it indeed can be made to work.

I have yet to find a mobipocket dictionary Italian-English for sale, so if I want it, I would have to make it myself anyway.

Hi adelheid!

It seems you have to have a cybook to get really fast dictionary access (well, iliads would do, too).

I have the double disadvantage (in this respect) to own an older APPLE iBook - so I can't run an emulation of win2000/upwards and therefore no Mobipocket / Creator, either - and the Sony PRS500 - so not Mobireader is installable.

Bad luck, it seems.
Actually I might consider "swapping" MY PRS500 for a cybook; but as I'm really looking forward to get a touch-screen-eReader sometime, I then would have to swap once more - which my financial means will not allow in the near future.

I just read (somewhere else) that mobipocket dictionaries are created from html files; in "my" dictionaries the source-site for these pdfs is mentioned:
you might use this free html to build your own dictionary.

So my efforts seem to be of use only in "urgent" cases as a pdf is navigable quite slowly even on my Sony.
Thanks a lot for your reply anyway!

Best regards, Clemens

(By the way: does "adelheid" point to a German speaking home country in your case? - no need to answer, just curious...)

I just read (somewhere else) that mobipocket dictionaries are created from html files; in "my" dictionaries the source-site for these pdfs is mentioned:
you might use this free html to build your own dictionary.

(By the way: does "adelheid" point to a German speaking home country in your case? - no need to answer, just curious...)

I will have a look at your source, since I would like to have an Italian-English dictionary. And concerning my name: I am right next door to Germany, in the Netherlands.

Hurray! I have made a working Cybook Italian-English dictionary! :D

It is a very simple one still, and I have already noticed some further tweaking is needed. But it works.

Thanks for the source Clemens!

.
Hurray! I have made a working Cybook Italian-English dictionary! :D


E..N..V..Y... !!! . . . J..E..A..L..O..U..S..Y... !!!


i want a working dictionary for my sony, too...


Well! ... bad luck for me ... good luck for you!

By the way, I mentioned further up that I'm about to do an Italian-to-German dictionary.
Will you be interested in that one, too?
(Apart from my chauvinistic attitude that GERMAN should be easier for you than ENGLISH: The trick with that one will be that I started to reduce vocabulary from a QUARTER MILLION words - it will be much more complete than the English one.)


I'm glad you attached your version here!
A LOT OF PEOPLE will be grateful for that...

best wishes to the netherlands, Clemens

My English vocab is unfortunately a lot better than my German. But I did notice that the English - Italian wordlist I have now is rather limited. Other freeware lists I found seem to be similarly limited.

If there is a big fat Italian - German list available, I would gladly turn that into a mobidictionary (although Pons does have German-Italian dictionaries for mobipocket available and I am not against buying at all). If it's more than the Pons dictionary, I would be interested.

If there is a big fat Italian - German list available, I would gladly turn that into a mobidictionary...
...
If it's more than the Pons dictionary, I would be interested.

Well, I somewhere was told (forgot where) that a GOOD dictionary must have ALL inflections (andare, vado, vai, va, andiamo etc.) to be of general use for your Cybook.

Is that the simple truth? Or does your system find "similar" words?

I read that too. I am not sure, but I can certainly test it, since I can tweak my dictionary to include and afterwards exclude some inflections. I will give it a try and report back.

I do notice in my English dictionary that it will give you results which are almost equal to the one you want. That may be an advanced feature.

The simple dictionary I made does need all the different inflections. When it comes to words like 'autorizzata', it won't point you to 'autorizzato'.

As I said, this may be an advanced option I haven't understood yet. But that is how it stands now.

I got the accenting right, but can't seem to upload the new file [edit: got it uploaded].

Clemens, if your Italian-German list is better, please can you let me know how I can get it? Thanks!

As I said, this may be an advanced option I haven't understood yet. But that is how it stands now.

You might look into the temporary html code that is produced in between(I read somewhere) whether there are special tags for "almost equal" results ?!?

Clemens, if your Italian-German list is better, please can you let me know how I can get it? Thanks!

Here-it-is:

http://infoportal-deutschland.aus-stade.de/Italienisch/italienisch-deutsch.htm

You'd have to get all letters a-z one by one, though, and put them into one file. BUT: the resulting html is about 5 MB in size.


P.s.-edit: BTW, could you describe to me how typically you proceed to look up a foreign word (like: move the joistick x-times / click y-times / do-something-I-can't imagine ...) so I get an idea how much better your dictionaries work?!?

Thank you, Adelheid!

BTW, could you describe to me how typically you proceed to look up a foreign word (like: move the joistick x-times / click y-times / do-something-I-can't imagine ...) so I get an idea how much better your dictionaries work?!?

I click the central button to navigate to "Lookup Mode" and click the central button again. I then navigate to the word I wish to see looked up and click the central button again. That's it.

The Pons Italian-German dictionary by the way is no good at all on the Cybook. Either the dictionary or the Cybook can't handle inflections. Quite a let down :smack:

...
I then navigate to the word I wish to see looked up and ...
Adelheid, I apologize for my "obstinacy":
how many clicks does it take you to get to a word on average?

The Pons Italian-German dictionary by the way is no good at all on the Cybook. Either the dictionary or the Cybook can't handle inflections. Quite a let down :smack:
Oh, I'm sorry for that - someone here might know a workaround?
Did you find out how html tags work in these dictionaries?

I'll send you my Italian-German html source asap - but may take a few days, yet...

Adelheid, I apologize for my "obstinacy":
how many clicks does it take you to get to a word on average?


That depends on where the word is on the page: say, if it's at line 5, position 4, that would mean 4 clicks to go to the line and 3 clicks to go to the word.

If the line is closer to the end of the page than the top and the word at the end of the line, you would start at the bottom of the page and line (1 click 'up' to end up at the bottom of the page and so on), so that wouldn't make a lot of difference in number of clicks.

That last bit may be a bit cryptic, I hope it is clear what I mean :)

About the html tags: yes, I think I understand how it could work (there are tags to differentiate between 'verbs', 'adjectives' and so on and you can choose to include inflections of these, which - if I understood correctly - will be generated by the software). Looks like a lot of dedicated work however.

That depends on where the word is on the page: say, if it's at line 5, position 4, that would mean 4 clicks to go to the line and 3 clicks to go to the word.
...
That last bit may be a bit cryptic, I hope it is clear what I mean :)

Good evening Adelheid!

Your last remark isn't cryptic at all to me, as my Sony navigates in PDF links in much the same way!!! (Actually it seems to me that the troubles to get a word translated are more similar than it seemed to me, on both devices.)

So: it would be a real advantage to us if we could select just any word on a touch screen...
Thanks for your information, again!

About the html tags: yes, I think I understand how it could work (there are tags to differentiate between 'verbs', 'adjectives' and so on and you can choose to include inflections of these, which - if I understood correctly - will be generated by the software). Looks like a lot of dedicated work however.

If it is really NO TROUBLE for you AT ALL - would you send the html source to me personally?
But that's just for my curiousity - thanks anyway for your troubles so far...

I'll send my email address in a personal mail - BUT you need not do anything about my request: I'd understand any reserves about it !

...
I received your private message. I got info on dictionary tags here:

http://www.mobipocket.com/dev/article.asp?BaseFolder=prcgen&File=indexing.htm

Oh, just in case this is what you meant: the source for my dictionary.


Hi Adelheid!

That was just what I was looking for, the link above, I mean.
Thank you!

I'll look into the description and hope to -maybe!- find ways to get inflections into the html automatically.
I'll send you my larger dictionary source later next week once I'm through with it.

Have a nice day !!!

Clemens

Sorry - mi dispiace.

Edit: I herewith withdraw my previously attached PDF dictionary files.

I had asked for feedback on their usability but only got posts from exactly *T*W*O* members - as compared to over 1,400 downloads...

(I don't mind anybody else placing any of these PDFs in a new thread. But I won't engage in this project any more.)