I really love my Cybook, but to be honest "it's not about the device". I bought the Cybook in order to read electronic content, which the range of I have found to be much less extensive than I'd like. At the moment, I only seem to be able to find 30% of the books I want in MobiPocket format (take this year's Booker prize shortlist as an example).

I was fooled that Amazon's purchase of Mobipocket would soon fix that problem, and now I see that Amazon's "Kindle Editions" will only work with Kindle devices. I feel like I've just thrown away £245 on a great device with substandard content, when I should have bought an ugly device with much better content coverage.

Anybody got any consoling words or can you give me hope for my e-reading future on the Cybook?

-Wayne

Well, i was hoping for more content via mobipocket aswell, but Amazon decided to lock in their customers. I personally do not like this decision and for any not US citizen, the choices are limited anyway. So i am counting on authors an publishers to see the opportunities and offer mor electronic content once they see how well amazon is doing with the kindle

You can probably sell your Cybook for a good price.

However, if Amazon has ~90K .AZW titles how much effort would it be for the publishers to also produce .MOBI versions? So this might lead to more .mobi titles over time. We probably need a letter writing campaign: dear publisher I see that XXX is available as .AMZ why not .MOBI?

I'd say the same: it's up to publishers and authors to make their books available for non-Kindle buyers. If only because the Kindle is available to USA residents only...

Happily, there are publishers and authors out there who don't rely only on Amazon and are already publishing .prc and .mobi ebooks. See the Fictionwise (http://www.fictionwise.com/) or Cyberread (http://www.cyberread.com/) catalogs, for instance... ;)

Edit: Not to mention Mobipocket (http://www.mobipocket.com/en/HomePage/default.asp?Language=EN) ebook store itself, of course !

Not to mention the 10s of thousands of out of copyright books that are available.

There's more than a lifetime's worth of reading available in eBook format for anybody, I'd have thought. The fact that you own an eBook reader doesn't prevent you from reading the occasional paper book still, after all.

Harry is right. Since I've bought the Cybook, I've spent hours browsing the free ebooks catalogs, in wonder at the many titles available, to discover or re-discover ad lib... Just have a look at Feedbooks (http://www.feedbooks.com/), for instance. The books labelled as formatted for Sony PRS-500 work fine on Cybook, because it's the same screen size. See also the Free ebooks (http://www.mobipocket.com/freebooks/default.aspx) section of Mobipocket, for classical books in PRC format...

And thanks to libraries who scan and digitize their out-of-print books, you can find a lot of material that hasn't been available commercially for decades. My father, who loves ancient literature, got very interested about ebooks when he learned that a 16th Century translation of Plutarch was available as a digital text, courtesy of the University of Ontario, but was out of print since more than 100 years! :2thumbsup

And then, of course, if you like to read SF, there's a growing number of authors (http://www.feedbooks.com/list/view/22) who follow the Cory Doctorow path and offer their ebooks for free under Creative Commons licenses. In addition to Cory, you have Charles Stross, whose novel Accelerando was packaged with the first Cybooks, then there's Rudy Rucker, Peter Watts, James Patrick Kelly, and more... Just now, Joshua Klein (http://www.wireless.is/rood/) added himself to the list!

Don't forget also Baen Books, for lots of science-fiction, fantasy and alternate history novels sold without DRMs. As Baen/NAEB partnered with Bookeen to develop their own brand of ebook reader, I guess they don't have any intention to tye themselves up with Amazon... ;)

At the moment, I only seem to be able to find 30% of the books I want in MobiPocket format (take this year's Booker prize shortlist as an example).

I took a look at the shortlist you mentioned. Of the 6 books on it I find 4 available in Mobi format & a 5th coming out 2/12/08. The only one I can't find is 'Darkmans' & that isn't even out in paper until next week.


I'm hopeful for the ebook market. Each week I see more & more back catalog stuff being released as well as more new releases. It's got a long way to go, but I'm hopeful.

Thanks for the replies. Yes I know there are plenty more books that I could read on my Cybook than I could feasibly read in my life. I appreciate that the classics are freely available, and the time that people put in to converting them to nice mobi formats.

Regarding the classics, maybe I need to open my mind and become more culturally aware, because for some reason I get more reading pleasure from Rushdie than Chekhov, McEwan than Brontë, Ishiguro than Scott. And I haven't really got into science/fantasy fiction since enjoying The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant when I was about 15.

Thanks for tip on the PRS-500 PDF books; I'd not looked at those.

What I find frustrating is when I see the book I want to read (from recommendation or review) but am unable to do get it for the Cybook because it's not available electronically yet. But what I find more frustrating is when I see a book I want that is available electronically but in the wrong format. It's a "so close but so far" situation.

AnemicOak, thanks, when I'd looked about 2 months ago, only 2 were available. Maybe the e-book releases are being tied to the paperback releases (or afterwards)?

Anyways, I'm calming down now. It was just an initial shock after having such great expectations of the Kindle Store, and then being let down badly.

-Wayne

Happily, there are publishers and authors out there who don't rely only on Amazon and are already publishing .prc and .mobi ebooks. See the Fictionwise (http://www.fictionwise.com/) or Cyberread (http://www.cyberread.com/) catalogs, for instance... ;)

My main supplier is Fictionwise and Mobipocket and comparing prices with Cyberread I found this ebook 3700 by Stephen Turner for $15 at Cyberread and at Mobi for $7 :stunned: I'm sticking with mobi.

However, if Amazon has ~90K .AZW titles how much effort would it be for the publishers to also produce .MOBI versions?

Who says that it is the publishers that produce the AZW Versions of the titles? That is, and I have been wondering about this for a while, couldn't it be that it actually is Amazon creating them?

Who says that it is the publishers that produce the AZW Versions of the titles? That is, and I have been wondering about this for a while, couldn't it be that it actually is Amazon creating them?

It's the publishers who produce the eBooks with all other formats, so it's a reasonable assumption to make. Amazon are just a "store front", not a publisher.

Anyways, I'm calming down now. It was just an initial shock after having such great expectations of the Kindle Store, and then being let down badly.

-Wayne

Wayne,

Don't forget that the Kindle's AZW files are MobiPocket files. Given that all these new books will be appearing in Mobi format it's a pretty reasonable assumption that we'll see them appearing on the other MobiPocket stores too.

Wayne,

Don't forget that the Kindle's AZW files are MobiPocket files. Given that all these new books will be appearing in Mobi format it's a pretty reasonable assumption that we'll see them appearing on the other MobiPocket stores too.


Guys,

You're all missing one *CRITICAL* point. The .AZW files are *ONLY* available for purchase by those people who have bought and *REGISTERED* an Amazon Kindle!!! And you have to download the .AZW ebooks through Amazon's Whispernet-which means you have to download it directly into the Kindle via their proprietary cell-phone network!

That creates two problems. First, getting the .AZW ebooks out of the Kindle and into the PC. Second, as this is a US-only phone network, getting those same ebooks overseas.

Yep. The Amazon Kindle is a solution seeking both a problem *AND* a customer base.

And did you all notice the price per book?

Derek

Guys,

You're all missing one *CRITICAL* point. The .AZW files are *ONLY* available for purchase by those people who have bought and *REGISTERED* an Amazon Kindle!!! And you have to download the .AZW ebooks through Amazon's Whispernet-which means you have to download it directly into the Kindle via their proprietary cell-phone network!

That creates two problems. First, getting the .AZW ebooks out of the Kindle and into the PC. Second, as this is a US-only phone network, getting those same ebooks overseas.

Yep. The Amazon Kindle is a solution seeking both a problem *AND* a customer base.

And did you all notice the price per book?

Derek
I hate to say this, but I will anyway, NAEB and Sony are in deep shit now.

The price of books and delivery method for the Kindle is going to be a winner. Plus the selection. Face it, Amazon has one the war in less then one day.

Won the war? In the USA, maybe. In the rest of the world? Not until they release their thing outside of the USA, no. And with another wireless connection than the EVDO... :knife:

Guys,

You're all missing one *CRITICAL* point. The .AZW files are *ONLY* available for purchase by those people who have bought and *REGISTERED* an Amazon Kindle!!! And you have to download the .AZW ebooks through Amazon's Whispernet-which means you have to download it directly into the Kindle via their proprietary cell-phone network!

That creates two problems. First, getting the .AZW ebooks out of the Kindle and into the PC. Second, as this is a US-only phone network, getting those same ebooks overseas.

Yep. The Amazon Kindle is a solution seeking both a problem *AND* a customer base.

And did you all notice the price per book?

Derek

Want to bet that in a few months, Amazon will be complaining a lot about pirated books, cracked from the .AZW format and available for free via P2P? :D

I hate to say this, but I will anyway, NAEB and Sony are in deep shit now.

The price of books and delivery method for the Kindle is going to be a winner. Plus the selection. Face it, Amazon has one the war in less then one day.

The prices may be introductory only, to gain rapid market share. I have confirmed that the publishers are not giving Amazon different terms than other ebook retailers. That means when they sell a $28 list price ebook for $9.95, they are losing $5 on the sale. And, they may have to be giving Verizon a piece of the action, I can't imagine verizon giving away lifetime EVDO service for just a one time slice of the hardware revenue.

The bottom line: I would not expect that kind of pricing to continue indefinitely, unless the publishers join in the fun and reduce prices as well.

On selection, it's interesting to look not only at the 88,000 number, but also what that includes. About 2/3 of it is nonfiction, the biggest single category that I found was "Science" with over 16,000 titles, of which 7,000 titles are books on sociology.

From what I know of ebook buyer patterns, Sociology ebooks are not exactly flying off the hard drives. About 50% of all ebook sales are romance, fiction. A quick check of the kindle store romance selections proves that it has about the same number of titles as other established ebook stores like ereader and fictionwise.

It appears that Amazon took every title they could get their hands on just to pump up the raw numbers.

What Sony needs to do now to keep up with the Kindle is get the 505 out outside of the USA.

I was wondering what the number included particularly when every publisher (but Penguin who hasn't gotten back to me yet) I contacted indicated all of their ebooks would be in as many formats as possible.

It's the publishers who produce the eBooks with all other formats, so it's a reasonable assumption to make. Amazon are just a "store front", not a publisher.

But then publisher does not equal typographer or printer in the paper book world either ... just because Amazon is not a publisher it does not necessarily mean it is not Amazon itself that creates the electronic version of the books (off whatever source they get from the publisher).

What I tried to say was nothing more or less than: just because a title is available as a kindle edition it does not necessarily mean it will be available in other formats as well ...

The prices may be introductory only, to gain rapid market share.
I tend to see it similarly. Just remember for how many years Amazon was willing to lose money and finally coming out as the big winner. I can very well imagine having had a success with a strategy in the past motivates trying it again.

Guys,

You're all missing one *CRITICAL* point. The .AZW files are *ONLY* available for purchase by those people who have bought and *REGISTERED* an Amazon Kindle!!! And you have to download the .AZW ebooks through Amazon's Whispernet-which means you have to download it directly into the Kindle via their proprietary cell-phone network!

That creates two problems. First, getting the .AZW ebooks out of the Kindle and into the PC. Second, as this is a US-only phone network, getting those same ebooks overseas.

Yep. The Amazon Kindle is a solution seeking both a problem *AND* a customer base.

And did you all notice the price per book?

Derek

I don't think Harry is actually missing the point. I think many of us are hoping not necessarily that Amazon lets us buy these books at their store, but that the publishers having already gone through the trouble of making an electronic edition, may also sell them elsewhere. If that's the case, it could be good for the Cybook. There's just so little information out right now. At the very least, though, I think many here are going to be watching and waiting before they put their money down.

But what I find more frustrating is when I see a book I want that is available electronically but in the wrong format. It's a "so close but so far" situation. Actually I have bought a few books in formats that I can not use on my PDA and then converted them to txt with software programs. Then you can read your book with no problem. Do you have any conversion software?

Okay, so I thought I'd have a look at the Booker Prize shortlist again. Six books, and I've used http://www.digitalreading.net/ to search.

1. Anne Enright. The Gathering.
Found on mobipocket:
http://www.mobipocket.com/en/eBooks/AuthorDetails.asp?AuthorID=47378&authorName=Anne+Enright
Click on the title, and I get the message: 'No eBook corresponds to the ID : 66273'
2. Mohsin Hamid. The Reluctant Fundamentalist.
Found on mobipocket:
http://www.mobipocket.com/en/eBooks/PublisherDetails.asp?PublisherID=2635
Click on the title, and I get the message: 'No eBook corresponds to the ID : 54531'
3. Lloyd Jones. Master Pip.
Purchased on mobipocket. woohoo.
4. Ian McEwan. On Chesil Beach.
Purchased on mobipocket. woohoo.
5. Nicola Barker. Darkmans.
Not available anywhere
6. Indira Sinha. Animal's People.
Can't find in mobi format. Found on Simon & Schuster's website, but not avalable until Feb 12 2008.
http://www.simonsays.com/content/book.cfm?tab=1&pid=619281

Okay, so the reason I've bought the Cybook is because I can't be carrying p-books around during my 18-month bicycle tour from Alaska to Argentina that I'm starting next year. For the same reason, I can't be playing around with conversions. As a software developer I'm perfectly capable, but won't have the resources. I just want to read books, not faff around with them. That's why I was so hopeful about the Kindle Store.

-Wayne

I don't really have anything helpful to say but Alaska to Argentina! That sounds amazing!

I hate to say this, but I will anyway, NAEB and Sony are in deep shit now.

The price of books and delivery method for the Kindle is going to be a winner. Plus the selection. Face it, Amazon has one the war in less then one day.


Jon,

I'm not so sure it's won anything. However, I do believe that if anyone is going to suffer over this, it will be Bookeen as well. And the reason I believe this is because now that Amazon has brought out it's own format (yeah, I *know* it's just a mobi PRC) with far more books available RIGHT NOW, I don't really see the need for Amazon to keep Mobipocket open. I believe one of Amazon's next moves will be to kill off Mobi.

Now the problem I see with this is that Whispernet is just here in the US, but as soon as they get it overseas, that means it will have the fastest, easiest method for selling and distributing ebooks - with the greatest number of titles. And don't you think most *major* publishers are going to want to have that part of the retail chain sewn up???

I hope this is not the case because I think the Cybook and PRS are far more flexible than the Kindle, but they're pitching it to the technophobe book readers out there and those people may well be sucked in.

Derek

I talked to Amazon today by email and they don't seem to have any plans for international distribution yet. This does not have to mean anything since they also refused any comment about the Kindle just a few days ago, but somehow I think this is going to be US only for a long time...just like the Sony Reader... :(

Jon,


I hope this is not the case because I think the Cybook and PRS are far more flexible than the Kindle, but they're pitching it to the technophobe book readers out there and those people may well be sucked in.

Derek

400$ device plus 10$ per book to technophobic book readers?? I kind of doubt it will catch on. Before Kindle was released I thought it will outsell the Sony by a reasonable margin, but it will be far off from a breakout device with sells in mid hundreds k a year.

Now with all the limitations, unless they change something drastically, I strogly doubt it will outsell the Sony and may not even outsell the Bookeen.
To me the big winners here is Sony since this device makes the Sony reader a much more desirable alternative.

Guys,

You're all missing one *CRITICAL* point. The .AZW files are *ONLY* available for purchase by those people who have bought and *REGISTERED* an Amazon Kindle!!! And you have to download the .AZW ebooks through Amazon's Whispernet-which means you have to download it directly into the Kindle via their proprietary cell-phone network!


No, Derek, I'm not missing anything. What I'm saying is that if a publisher produces a Mobi book (which is what Kindle books are) they'd have to be pretty stupid to restrict it to the one outlet of Amazon. We can therefore reasonably expect to see those same books showing up in other MobiPocket stores.

Jon,

I'm not so sure it's won anything. However, I do believe that if anyone is going to suffer over this, it will be Bookeen as well. And the reason I believe this is because now that Amazon has brought out it's own format (yeah, I *know* it's just a mobi PRC) with far more books available RIGHT NOW, I don't really see the need for Amazon to keep Mobipocket open. I believe one of Amazon's next moves will be to kill off Mobi.


That would be a ridiculous thing to do. Right now, any book sold through Mobi is an additional sale, since it's to a non-Kindle device. Why would they want to stop that?

I'm looking forward to the day when a decent eBook convertor which strips out DRM is available ~ similar to what's happened with music files.

I have no problem paying for eBooks, don't want to pirate anything but do want to be able to read books purchased on any device and in any format ~ all this propriety crap is just stunting the growth of the eBook market.

I'm looking forward to the day when a decent eBook convertor which strips out DRM is available ~ similar to what's happened with music files.

I have no problem paying for eBooks, don't want to pirate anything but do want to be able to read books purchased on any device and in any format ~ all this propriety crap is just stunting the growth of the eBook market.

You may not want to pirate anything, but there's plenty of evidence that a lot of people do (look at the eBook usenet newsgroups for a start). If such a converter, able to strip out DRM, were to come along, the most likely outcome would be that many publishers would withdraw from the eBook business. Many publishers - and authors - will not release eBooks without DRM.

Note that pretty much all eBook formats are proprietory. Being proprietory does not (necessarily) equate to using DRM.

You may not want to pirate anything, but there's plenty of evidence that a lot of people do (look at the eBook usenet newsgroups for a start). If such a converter, able to strip out DRM, were to come along, the most likely outcome would be that many publishers would withdraw from the eBook business. Many publishers - and authors - will not release eBooks without DRM.

Note that pretty much all eBook formats are proprietory. Being proprietory does not (necessarily) equate to using DRM.

It's also interesting to look at the eBook usenet newsgroup's responses to people asking for pirate copies of Baen books -- "It's only 5 bucks, just BUY it you cheapskate" and "Baen is the good guys; support them, don't pirate them." This difference came about through Baen choosing to go with cheap pricing and no DRM. Jim Baen (RIP) used to say that if you treat your customers like pirates, that's what they'll act like. But if you treat them like people...

I admit that this approach might not work for the #1 NYT bestseller. On the other hand, it has worked just fine for several #5-6 NYT bestsellers. And the converters don't have to strip the DRM, because there isn't any!

Xenophon

That would be a ridiculous thing to do. Right now, any book sold through Mobi is an additional sale, since it's to a non-Kindle device. Why would they want to stop that?

I don't know why that would want to do that, but I have just got a response from Mobipocket that two books that are currently available as Kindle Editions will not be available from Mobipocket:
http://www.mobipocket.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9179

:(

It's also interesting to look at the eBook usenet newsgroup's responses to people asking for pirate copies of Baen books -- "It's only 5 bucks, just BUY it you cheapskate" and "Baen is the good guys; support them, don't pirate them." This difference came about through Baen choosing to go with cheap pricing and no DRM. Jim Baen (RIP) used to say that if you treat your customers like pirates, that's what they'll act like. But if you treat them like people...

I admit that this approach might not work for the #1 NYT bestseller. On the other hand, it has worked just fine for several #5-6 NYT bestsellers. And the converters don't have to strip the DRM, because there isn't any!
Amen to that! :cool:

And it's nice to know that non-DRM ebooks have worked for big sellers also.

That would be a ridiculous thing to do. Right now, any book sold through Mobi is an additional sale, since it's to a non-Kindle device. Why would they want to stop that?
Indeed. Since Amazon bought Mobipocket, every ebook sale in Mobipocket format is an additional sale for Amazon too.

BTW, I don't know if someone already posted it, but as DearAuthor (http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/2007/11/19/no-kindle-exclusivity-for-harlequin-readers/) reports today several major publishers confirmed they have no exclusivity with Amazon for ebook releases. Good to know!;)

BTW, I don't know if someone already posted it, but as DearAuthor (http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/2007/11/19/no-kindle-exclusivity-for-harlequin-readers/) reports today several major publishers confirmed they have so exclusivity with Amazon for ebook releases. Good to know!;)

I hope that's a typo and you meant to say NO exclusivity.

Yes, it is a typo! Thanks. :o

Jon,

I'm not so sure it's won anything. However, I do believe that if anyone is going to suffer over this, it will be Bookeen as well. And the reason I believe this is because now that Amazon has brought out it's own format (yeah, I *know* it's just a mobi PRC) with far more books available RIGHT NOW, I don't really see the need for Amazon to keep Mobipocket open. I believe one of Amazon's next moves will be to kill off Mobi.

Now the problem I see with this is that Whispernet is just here in the US, but as soon as they get it overseas, that means it will have the fastest, easiest method for selling and distributing ebooks - with the greatest number of titles. And don't you think most *major* publishers are going to want to have that part of the retail chain sewn up???

I hope this is not the case because I think the Cybook and PRS are far more flexible than the Kindle, but they're pitching it to the technophobe book readers out there and those people may well be sucked in.

Derek
What I think is that this AZW format is just mobi format., But the difference is that you do not get the PID of your device(s). So closing Mobipocket would have an effect on Kindle books. AZW I think stands for AmaZon Whispernet hence the AZW. So basically, it would be a hidden PID for each device. But I also think there is one difference (at least I hope so). Images for the books would be large enough for the 6" screen instead of PDA sized. According to one of the various blogs/articles linked it said that Sony is working on it's on wifi reader. So we'll see how that goes if it really happens. The problem is that Amazon has the clout, the content, and (at present) the prices for the books to make a go of this.

For the average person, it's a great device. You just select your book, download it, and read away. They won't care about DRM or even know such exists. I do think that if Amazon was to close Mobipocket, that would be a real killer for ebooks in general. What I do think is that maybe Amazon might have Mobipocket be the central site in Europe for doing what they are doing in the USA.

I am hoping more people are correct in that the titles for AZW that are not in any other format will eventually make it to other formats. But we will just have to see what happens.

400$ device plus 10$ per book to technophobic book readers?? I kind of doubt it will catch on. Before Kindle was released I thought it will outsell the Sony by a reasonable margin, but it will be far off from a breakout device with sells in mid hundreds k a year.

Now with all the limitations, unless they change something drastically, I strogly doubt it will outsell the Sony and may not even outsell the Bookeen.
To me the big winners here is Sony since this device makes the Sony reader a much more desirable alternative.
Lets say you are looking for an ebook reader in the USA. You have the 505 and the Kindle. Now, you go an look at the prices for both devices. $100 difference. Just purchase 10 bestsellers using the Kindle and the price has just become cheaper then the 505 based on the amount you've just saved. Buy even more and the saving make the Kindle cost even less. Face it, Amazon is going to win if you look at it from an economic standpoint.

It's also interesting to look at the eBook usenet newsgroup's responses to people asking for pirate copies of Baen books -- "It's only 5 bucks, just BUY it you cheapskate" and "Baen is the good guys; support them, don't pirate them." This difference came about through Baen choosing to go with cheap pricing and no DRM. Jim Baen (RIP) used to say that if you treat your customers like pirates, that's what they'll act like. But if you treat them like people...

I admit that this approach might not work for the #1 NYT bestseller. On the other hand, it has worked just fine for several #5-6 NYT bestsellers. And the converters don't have to strip the DRM, because there isn't any!

Xenophon
Let's use CDs as the medium in this case. I know others who will not pirate music CDs except for the copy protected music CDs. You remove the protection and the CDs won't be stolen. You put on the protection and if that protection can be stripped it will be stolen.

Same deal it seems with Baen ebooks since Baen is trusting us to be good and we are overall.

I do think that if Amazon was to close Mobipocket, that would be a real killer for ebooks in general. What I do think is that maybe Amazon might have Mobipocket be the central site in Europe for doing what they are doing in the USA.

I posted a message on this thread hours ago, to the same effect as what I'm writing now, but it hasn't appeared.

Mobipocket have responded to a message of mine here:
http://www.mobipocket.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9179
Two e-books are available as Kindle Editions but will not be available on Mobipocket. These are not small volume novels, they're both on Booker Prize shortlist. Mobipocket is putting the blame on the publishers, but I think Amazon are behind this.

Right now, I feel that Amazon is bad for the e-book world.

-Wayne

Lets say you are looking for an ebook reader in the USA. You have the 505 and the Kindle. Now, you go an look at the prices for both devices. $100 difference. Just purchase 10 bestsellers using the Kindle and the price has just become cheaper then the 505 based on the amount you've just saved. Buy even more and the saving make the Kindle cost even less. Face it, Amazon is going to win if you look at it from an economic standpoint.
Which makes me think: people who don't read a lot of "best-sellers" might not be very interested by the Kindle. I'm rather eclectic, sometimes a bestseller might draw my interest, but certainly not if I have to purchase a DRM-laden ebook for as much as the hardcover book I can hold in my hand, keep for years and years, or give away or resell if I'm not interested after all!

And I wonder about the sanity of publishers who sell ebooks at the same price than ordinary books, even thought they don't have printing, handling and shipping costs with electronic texts... A better business model would be something along the lines of BAEN Books, with ebooks a about the same price as a paperback or less. Here in France, we have Eons (http://www.eons.fr/), another publisher of sci-fi books who sells ebooks for about a third of their hardcover editions.

The ebook market has a lot of maturing and evolving to do.

You may not want to pirate anything, but there's plenty of evidence that a lot of people do (look at the eBook usenet newsgroups for a start). If such a converter, able to strip out DRM, were to come along, the most likely outcome would be that many publishers would withdraw from the eBook business. Many publishers - and authors - will not release eBooks without DRM.

Note that pretty much all eBook formats are proprietory. Being proprietory does not (necessarily) equate to using DRM.
I'm not so sure about that point of view given how the music download market is heading. I just wish the DRM they used was something like your name so if it's found floating around they can single out the sharers not those who want to use mutliple platforms/devices.

On the subject of the Kindle I doubt that Amazon would dump Mobipocket. It's highly unlikely that Kindle is going to storm the market like an iPod ~ it's damn ugly for a start, you're locked into one supplier and it's a US only product (at least for now).

Sorry to bump, but my posts #33 and #42 got lost in the ether and have only just appeared. I don't want to labour the point but I'm very disappointed.

Lets say you are looking for an ebook reader in the USA.


This is the crux of the matter. IF you are looking for an e-book reader, maybe the Kindle is a good deal, though I think that Sony is a much better deal right now if you want to go e-ink, and lcd's options are even better if you are not set on e-ink.

But Kindle was supposed to be the modern reincarnation of the book, so you were supposed to buy it without looking for an e-book reader.

Without major changes, I doubt the Kindle will outsell Sony. Right now Amazon fumbled it big time in my opinion, though with some tweaks they can get on the right path. The questions to me are how committed they are, what are acceptble sells, 15k a year, 50k a year, 500k a year - in the most optimistic case I thought 500k a year is a ceiling considering that up to date about 100 k dedicated e-book readers had been sold in the US ever, but now I think that if they sell 100k a year they will be lucky

That would be a ridiculous thing to do. Right now, any book sold through Mobi is an additional sale, since it's to a non-Kindle device. Why would they want to stop that?

I think it all depends on how the contracts with the publishers are structured. Though Amazon owns Mobipocket, I have to assume that the .azw editions are contracted directly between Amazon and the publishers, not between Mobipocket and the publishers with Amazon acting as a Mobipocket dealer.

In the former case, Amazon can do whatever it wants with the .azw editions as long as it keeps them Kindle-specific, because there's no market crossover between Mobipocket and Kindle that way. The Mobipocket dealers, like Fictionwise, can't complain because the Kindle doesn't compete directly. However, that also means that there's no guarantee Mobipocket (or its dealers) will ever get a broader catalog or better pricing as a result of Amazon's direct deals.

I have to agree with Derek. If the Kindle is successful, I think Amazon will likely shut Mobipocket down. As long as they own Mobipocket, I don't see any viable way they can expand beyond the Kindle-specific market. If the Kindle is successful enough that they don't need to expand beyond it, then they have no reason to keep Mobipocket running. And unless they change the Kindle's format and DRM scheme, they're not likely to sell MP off intact.

Of course, if I'm wrong, it wouldn't be anywhere near the first time.

Lets say you are looking for an ebook reader in the USA. You have the 505 and the Kindle. Now, you go an look at the prices for both devices. $100 difference. Just purchase 10 bestsellers using the Kindle and the price has just become cheaper then the 505 based on the amount you've just saved. Buy even more and the saving make the Kindle cost even less. Face it, Amazon is going to win if you look at it from an economic standpoint.

That's a good way to put it. I also see it as a sort of "America Online" thing going on. All the techies hated AOL because it was basically holding the hands of the newbies and making it so easy for them to get online. And guess what? It kicked butt, became the number one place for most people in the US and it's how most of them got online.

Of course, then came high-speed internet and AOL pretty much died a painful death. But for a while, they made things easy and that is what average joe user wanted. It's the techie people who cried. Then when most internet providers made it easy, the newbies came aboard.

My point is, good or bad, making it easy for consumers is what will make the Kindle a winner. For a while anyway. Average Joe User doesn't know what DRM means, doesn't know formats, doesn't know or want to know how to convert. They just want to buy a book, now and easy.

I like my Sony Reader as well, but I have a few Mac non-tech friends and they were scared of the steps I had to go thru to get a book on here. I didn't think it was hard, but they sure did...

If you are in the USA and looking for an e-ink ebook reader, there's also the iRex's iLiad (http://www.irextechnologies.com/products), available through eRedear Outfitters (http://www.ereaderoutfitters.com/iRex+iLiad.htm). Of course, at 699 USD, it's a lot more expensive than Amazon's Kindle, but the reading surface is larger, with a touch-screen, note-taking capacity, Wifi connection for downloading directly your ebooks & newspapers, plus self-publishing capacity through the MyiRex communities...

If you think about it, the Kindle is a kind of iLiad clone with uglier design and DRM-locked platform. Oh, and only available for the USA, not the whole world as iLiad. But, but, it's cheaper...

If Sony is going to have a hard time competing with Amazon, the same is true of iRex...

If you think about it, the Kindle is a kind of iLiad clone with uglier design and DRM-locked platform. Oh, and only available for the USA, not the whole world as iLiad. But, but, it's cheaper...

If Sony is going to have a hard time competing with Amazon, the same is true of iRex...

The iLiad is just as DRM-locked as the Kindle is and so is the Sony.

Dale

The iLiad is just as DRM-locked as the Kindle is and so is the Sony.

Dale
Very true. There is no way to read best sellers without purchasing them with DRM. While some of us know how to strip the DRM, most people have no idea. And as long as they can read the book on their device, they won't care. Most people read a book once and that's it. Soit won't matter if say 2 years later they can no longer read it.

Well, the iLiad DRM-laden, yes, if you mean that if you want to buy a book or newspaper subscription directly from your iLiad, you have to go through the iRex online store, just like Amazon with the Kindle. But IIRC, the books you get that way are ordinary Mobipocket (DRM'd) files, so you can read them on other readers in addition to the iLiad. And the iLiad supports the common formats like PDF, txt, html. So it's a lot more open than the Kindle, all things considered.

Well, the iLiad DRM-laden, yes, if you mean that if you want to buy a book or newspaper subscription directly from your iLiad, you have to go through the iRex online store, just like Amazon with the Kindle. But IIRC, the books you get that way are ordinary Mobipocket (DRM'd) files, so you can read them on other readers in addition to the iLiad. And the iLiad supports the common formats like PDF, txt, html. So it's a lot more open than the Kindle, all things considered.

Kindle will also read mobipocket books, although not the DRM'd ones. You can use MobiPocket PC version to translate PDF, TXT (although Kindle will read that one I think) and HTML as well as CHM and several others.

Direct reading of PDF doesn't work well for 6" screens although it is quite usable on 8" screens in landscape mode. How many subscriptions can you get for iLiad?

It is useful to be able to read books on more than one device but I am not sure that obviates the DRM tag. YMMV

dale

It is useful to be able to read books on more than one device but I am not sure that obviates the DRM tag. YMMV

True. But the thing is, a few of my favorite authors ebooks can only be bought in DRM'd format. So I have a few DRM'd Mobipocket ebooks. If I were to switch to Kindle (even if it *was* available to me, which is another can of worms), I would suddenly lose them. At least, the Sony PRS, the iLiad and the Bookeen Cybook all read them.

(Though I think that next time, I'll avoid these DRM'd ebooks like the plague and stick with paper books, even if they are more expensive.)

Irene, I don't think my Sony Reader can use DRM'd mobipockets.. And that's beginning to be a problem as I also don't find all the books I would want in other formats :(

There's a bit of tampering going on with this Kindle advertisements ...

Ive seen a couple of pictures from it having a colour display and that's just not right.

Right ?

Right.

Irene, I don't think my Sony Reader can use DRM'd mobipockets.. And that's beginning to be a problem as I also don't find all the books I would want in other formats :(

There is not a single vendor, so far, other than PDA's that support more than one DRM system on their device.

Dale

There is not a single vendor, so far, other than PDA's that support more than one DRM system on their device.

Dale

And that exclusivity is more than likely a condition of their contract with the provider of the DRM that they do support.

PCs, of course, are another exception, but who wants to read for pleasure on a PC?

Don't launch the same discussion again : you already have a poll for this question Harry :D

My worry is this:

Amazon owns Mobipocket DRM. The "Kindle Editions" replace Mobipocket DRM. So, what is Amazon going to do with Mobipocket, and what impact is that going to have on devices such as the Cybook G3, iLiad, etc.

I understand that Amazon wants to make money and eliminate competition. But in this case, the competition is largely themselves! By ignoring Mobipocket DRM, they are alienating existing customers and that is just not cool in my book.

Until the dust settles and we have a better idea of where all of this is heading, I'm avoiding the future purchase of any Mobipocket DRM book for my Cybook. I'm going on a one man boycott of giving any money at all to Amazon, directly or indirectly. :indian_ch

Check out this comment:
http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/2007/11/19/no-kindle-exclusivity-for-harlequin-readers/#comment-97967
If true, this is pretty sad news.

Sad news????

Sorry, I don't understand. Those publishers are saying that their Kindle deals are not exclusive, so they are free to produce eBooks in whatever format they wish. It's not sad news; it's very good news!

I'm not talking about the post, read the comment the link points to (#8):
The five guys at the Mobipocket headquarters received no preliminary info about Kindle form Amazon, and its a safe bet they know their days are numbered.

I'm not talking about the post, read the comment the link points to (#8):

I don't believe that for an instant. The Mobi business is totally separate from Amazon - they'd have to be crazy to shut it down.

Consider, if nothing else, that the majority of Mobi sales are outside the US, so the Kindle is virtually irrevelent to that. Why on Earth would they shut it down?

I never bought a Mobipocket drm book, and I do not intend to buy one or a Kindle edition as long as I cannot put them on any device I want.

This being said, to me it just does not make sense for Amazon to support 2 drm formats, so I think they will sell Mobipocket, they will shut it down or they will converge it with Kindle.

Considering the large number of Mobi books out there, the popularity hit they would take by shutting Mobi down is probably the one factor that stops them doing it now, so it's possible they will sell it.

Convergence with Kindle is unlikely since there is no reason they should not have done it originally, if they wanted so.

This being said, to me it just does not make sense for Amazon to support 2 drm formats, so I think they will sell Mobipocket, they will shut it down or they will converge it with Kindle.


Amazon aren't supporting two DRM formats; they don't sell MobiPocket format books. The fact that Amazon own Mobi is virtually irrelevent - they are completely separate businesses to all intents and purposes. The Kindle is a US business, the Mobi one an international business.

I never bought a Mobipocket drm book, and I do not intend to buy one or a Kindle edition as long as I cannot put them on any device I want.

This being said, to me it just does not make sense for Amazon to support 2 drm formats, so I think they will sell Mobipocket, they will shut it down or they will converge it with Kindle.

Considering the large number of Mobi books out there, the popularity hit they would take by shutting Mobi down is probably the one factor that stops them doing it now, so it's possible they will sell it.

Convergence with Kindle is unlikely since there is no reason they should not have done it originally, if they wanted so.

We're pretty sure that it's not two formats. Really. I've tested this. So far as I know, the only difference is the 2 or 3 bytes that indicate the retailer. If I knew where those bytes are in the header, I would be trying to get them to work right now..


EDIT: I just tested my theory. It didn't work.

I think it'd be beneficial if Amazon would allow their Mobipocket DRM customers to exchange for the same book in Kindle format. Folks that have Mobipocket DRM are likely going to avoid the Kindle as it'd make their former books unreadable.

This would allow Amazon to keep their profits and avoid competition while, at the same time, providing a path to move their already paid for literature to their new format. For Amazon, I would see this as a "win win" situation. They could entice former Mobipocket DRM customers and still disallow that format from appearing on the Kindle.

Even though Amazon's Kindle format may technically be Mobipocket, this has no relevance unless they provide a means for former Mobipocket customers to read their library on a new device.

All in all, I'm still depressed by the news. I figured that the Kindle would accelerate ebook adoption into Mobipocket DRM, instead it may very well destroy it.

It's not "two bytes", it's actually a string (e.g. AMAZON_11). Mobipocket needs to know the address of DRM server to authenticate the book, and it has a mapping of vendor IDs to server name (stores.xml file). In this case it doesn't know the vendor AMAZON_11, so it cannot authenticate it.

It's not "two bytes", it's actually a string (e.g. AMAZON_11). Mobipocket needs to know the address of DRM server to authenticate the book, and it has a mapping of vendor IDs to server name (stores.xml file). In this case it doesn't know the vendor AMAZON_11, so it cannot authenticate it.

While technically it's true that azw and prc are the same format, they are still 2 different drm schemes since you cannot read azw with Mobi reader and similarly with drm prc on Kindle.

So in a sense Amazon is competing against itself, and I just cannot imagine this happening for more than a short while. I am quite convinced that only the large number of drm prc files out there and the sudden introduction of the Kindle made this possible, but I still do not see this as sustainable.

Does Zune play PlaysForSure tracks yet? I don't think so.
If Microsoft could do such thing, I don't see why Amazon can't.

It's not "two bytes", it's actually a string (e.g. AMAZON_11). Mobipocket needs to know the address of DRM server to authenticate the book, and it has a mapping of vendor IDs to server name (stores.xml file). In this case it doesn't know the vendor AMAZON_11, so it cannot authenticate it.

I know, I found it. It's actually AMAZON_1100.

And that exclusivity is more than likely a condition of their contract with the provider of the DRM that they do support.

PCs, of course, are another exception, but who wants to read for pleasure on a PC?
Only if the PC is a tablet with E-Ink display! ;)

Mobipocket Reader Desktop 6.1 Beta claims it can group book titles by author or group icons by genre. Does the Cybook library allow a reader to choose books by author or genry or does one have to scroll through every title in the library to locate a specific book?

Mobipocket Reader Desktop 6.1 Beta claims it can group book titles by author or group icons by genre. Does the Cybook library allow a reader to choose books by author or genry or does one have to scroll through every title in the library to locate a specific book?

You can currently only sort by Title, File Size, File Date, File Name or File Path. Once you sort you have to scroll through every page. I have mine set to 20 items per page and with 133 books it's 7 pages to scroll through to locate a book. I'm hoping that Bookeen will allow additional sort options via future firmware releases.

Mobipocket Reader Desktop 6.1 Beta claims it can group book titles by author or group icons by genre. Does the Cybook library allow a reader to choose books by author or genry or does one have to scroll through every title in the library to locate a specific book?

A user can *sort* by Title, File Size, File Date, File Name and File Path. However, if your title is "Middle of the Road" by Jack Logan, then there's probably a pretty good chance it will be in the middle of the Library pages - so you'd better make sure you have cover graphics on the file and switch to the 25 titles per page mode. Of course, if you've got an SD card in there with a thousand titles, you're pretty much stuck with lots of paging to find it. :smack:

Derek

This is why I'm now making sure that I add a cover picture to any Mobi book I create, since the Gen3 relies so heavily on them. For books for which no cover picture exists (eg the anthologies and omnibus editions I create) I've started creating my own simple cover picture with the title and author on it.

Is there some way to take a mobi file downloaded from here or from manybooks and add a cover automatically? Or to change the title?

I had to start using the mode with five books per page to be able to find things. I downloaded short stories from Cory Doctorow's Overclocked and the all had the same cover image and the title started with the same text for all the stories. Also the Wodehouse books from manybooks did not have any covers. It is a bit irritating to select among 100 books using this method.

I don't know much about US antitrust laws but are amazon not sailing a little close to the wind in this regard? That assumes, hopefully incorrectly, that amazon will throw all there weight behind the kindle and shut down mobipocket as some are suggesting on this forum and in this thread.

I think there is absolutely NO chance that Amazon will shut down Mobi? Why on Earth would they? The Kindle is a US-only product which can't be used by 95% of the world's population; MobiPocket is a world-wide business most of whose business is (I'd guess) outside the US. What on Earth would be their incentive to shut it down?

I think there is absolutely NO chance that Amazon will shut down Mobi? Why on Earth would they? The Kindle is a US-only product which can't be used by 95% of the world's population; MobiPocket is a world-wide business most of whose business is (I'd guess) outside the US. What on Earth would be their incentive to shut it down?

Going on that information even if for some strange reason Amazon do shut it down someone else will take it up.

From looking around fictionwise seems cheaper and holds tons and tons of books. Mobipocket does have a good range, I'll get my dictionary from there for instance but the prices are quite off-putting.

Going on that information even if for some strange reason Amazon do shut it down someone else will take it up.

From looking around fictionwise seems cheaper and holds tons and tons of books. Mobipocket does have a good range, I'll get my dictionary from there for instance but the prices are quite off-putting.

hahahaha. You're funny. If Mobipocket shuts down, no retailer will be able to sell DRMed Mobipocket. They all rely on Mobipocket's servers. This point failure was made crystal clear back in summer.

Mobipocket thought they were being hacked, so they shut down as a safety precaution. While they were down, no one could buy any new Mobipocket ebooks, nor download old ones.

Fair enough, guess we're all screwed if that should happen again / amazon shut it down.

All I was trying to say is that if amazon do shut down mobipocket it most likely won't be the absolute end of the world - other files can be read / converted to work on the gen3 and one of the other retailers will have them.

Glad it made you laugh :p

I think there is absolutely NO chance that Amazon will shut down Mobi? Why on Earth would they? The Kindle is a US-only product which can't be used by 95% of the world's population; MobiPocket is a world-wide business most of whose business is (I'd guess) outside the US. What on Earth would be their incentive to shut it down?

I agree, I also think that Amazon with the Kindle and its locked DRM is going to have problems with the Marketing Control Act in some European countries. And this might be the reason for only launching it in the US.

The Norwegian Consumer Councils complaint against iTunes Music Store(I think this might apply to the Kindle/Amazon too):
http://forbrukerportalen.no/Artikler/2006/1138119849.71
http://forbrukerportalen.no/Artikler/2006/1149587055.44
As far as I know the Swedish Consumer Council has also lodged a complaint against iTunes.:)

wmaurer: You have every reason to be angry and disappointed, but not with your decision. Be angry with Amazon, not yourself. Amazon just shit on you. Why does that make you think you should have bought from Amazon? I used to buy a lot of books from Amazon, but I'm going to look for somewhere else to buy paper books now.... and I'm not even someone who owns mobipocket books. I don't trust them anymore. I used to like Amazon.

If you bought the Amazon device they'd just shit on you later instead of sooner. You now see that they're obviously willing to do it. And your bike trip? You can't use a Kindle outside the US. Cybook was the right decision.

If you bought the Kindle, and Kindle books, and then your Kindle got rained on or broken or lost somewhere along the way, you'd have to buy a new Kindle to read your books. If you lose your cybook, you can buy a new cybook, or a palm, or a computer, or a hanlin v3, or an iliad, or even a phone and still have your content.

If the kindle isn't successful, it'll be dumped, and you'll be left to fill your bike panniers with paper books.

To all of you saying "Amazon will/won't dump MobiPocket." They don't have to "dump" mobipocket, but they're just not going to be as motivated to hire the best people to seek out the best content for a service that competes with their own. Of course they'll keep selling whatever books they sell (as long as it's bringing in money), but they'll always have more titles available in the more proprietary Kindle format. They also have no reason to lower prices for mobipocket formated books or really try to compete, unless an actual competitor in the same market comes along.

Also, I agree with what jasonkchapman said about the contracts. Amazon negotiated to distribute books in kindle-format. They didn't negotiate them for mobipocket format, and so don't have the rights to distribute them as such. They probably couldn't legally sell kindle books on a non kindle device even if they wanted to. Negotiating for mobipocket distribution will be up to some other manager in some other department operating in some subsidiary that amazon doesn't care about anymore. Amazon bought the technology, and wants to sell books on Amazon.com. Sure if a few extra bucks come in from mobipocket.com that's great but it's not as important to them.

Some of you are saying Amazon/kindle loses 5$/book. I've read that typical wholesale price of ebooks in that range around about 10$, and that typically ebook resellers sell them for around $18. This would suggest that Amazon just doesn't make a profit on bestsellers, not that they lose money. We hear from the publishers that Amazon isn't getting some special deal, but it still might have come out to a price of $9 instead of $10 based on volume and such, not a significant negotiation but giving them *some* revenue. This also suggests that the profit margin on best sellers on sites like mobipocket is $8. This probably currently makes sense given ebooks are still fairly new, still low volume, and that they have significant development costs to recoup. Amazon might be hoping to be high-enough volume and long-term enough that low-profit margins can be overcome with high volume.

It is quite frustrating that more content isn't available. This is the fault of Amazon. Amazon has worked to cripple the ebook market, and it takes away my confidence in the mobipocket book system that otherwise would have been a good way to buy ebooks. I'm tempted to think that amazon is intentionally disrupting and delaying the widespread adoption of ebooks, to maintain their primary revenue source.

Someone should come out with yet another DRM content system to be the next mobipocket, running on all available devices like mobipocket did, but not being owned buy a company that wants to shit on it's customers. Hopefully this will happen, and it will either replace mobipocket, or the amazon people will be forced to keep mobipocket competitive. Either way, if there's a mobipocket format AND a competing format, both of which run on a plethora of devices, (and internationally) the consumers will be OK. I can dream that someday we won't have DRM, and that might just be a dream... but I'm quite convinced that one-format-to-one-device services will not be the future of DRM.

Anyone want to start (or fund) a company? As others have said, the publisher deals with Amazon are not exclusive. Mobipocket was successful and a lot of people (like me) will be afraid to buy from them now. I don't think companies like cybook or hanlin or irex have *exclusive* deals with mobipocket do they? I can write code (or hire cheap Chinese programmers, I'm in China now) :-P. We'd have to act fast... hehe.

I also feel like what Amazon did with mobipocket aught to be illegal. There should be some kind of antitrust laws protecting us from that kind of behavior. The US legal system needs some serious reevaluation to take into account the ramifications of the current digital age. We should at a bare minimum be protected from companies completely dropping support for DRM products as has happened more then once, when some company says "download your music for the last time" and it will never play on another device again. They're should be some kind of consumer protection or contractual obligation of the company that "sells" you DRM content.

Actually, now that I've finished (reading as I write this) the whole thread, I see that it is illegal in some countries. Good to hear.

Maybe in a few years Kindle will just fail, and Amazon will forget about trying to be a hardware/service company, will fully adopt Mobipocket, and will work to make more titles available for mobi and just fully utilize that revenue stream. When/if that happens, it will make the current cybook purchases still the right decision. I can't imagine a one-format-one-device service could possibly be successful in the long term, and as long as they dont' go so far as pulling the plug on mobipocket DRM servers, mobipocket still has the best DRM service out there. Too many unsuspecting customers of devices like the kindle or sony will buy the device, be angry, and tell their friends to buy from the competitor. These lame systems will all have to disappear eventually.

I want the option to buy DRM content. I never have though because I don't trust any of the people who sell it. There's no incentive for them to be nice to us. If Amazon had played nice with mobi as I expected, I would have been thrilled and bought mobi books (as soon as I had a mobi-reading device). Now I might end up buying something that doesn't even support mobipocket, like the hanlin v3. It's that or the cybook.

-brian

I sent Amazon an email and I got a response saying that my comments have been forwarded to the Kindle team. I've spent a lot of money with Amazon over the years, but until they change their current policy, I won't be spending any more with them. I'm even disinclined to buy anything from Mobipocket, or even mobi files, given the fact that money goes back to Amazon.

I've also sent emails to a number of publishers, but haven't had any response yet.

I've appealed to publishers of ebooks on the Mobipocket forum to not lock themselves into Kindle format:
http://www.mobipocket.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9152

I think the real problem is, though, is that any outcry is from a relatively small community. Most Kindle buyers will probably think that the Kindle is a first of breed e-book reader, and will happily buy content from Amazon without realising that Amazon is attempting to kneecap competion. It may also be the case that publishers will think that publishing on non-Kindle formats isn't worth the effort.

-Wayne

I think the real problem is, though, is that any outcry is from a relatively small community. Most Kindle buyers will probably think that the Kindle is a first of breed e-book reader, and will happily buy content from Amazon without realising that Amazon is attempting to kneecap competion. It may also be the case that publishers will think that publishing on non-Kindle formats isn't worth the effort.

-Wayne

I think that you underestimate the financial sense of the public. There is a reason commercial e-books have been a bust until now, and it ain't the lack of a device or of the wireless delivery. Kindle brings nothing essentially new, it costs a lot, e-book prices are still high, content is still locked, and people ain't stupid.

Kindle may double the e-book market though I doubt it, but it would still be a minuscule thing, so I would not worry about Kindle cornering the market. And if Mobipocket dies or withers down, all the better, just to teach again the lesson that drm is bad and people should avoid it if not convertible.

On the other the positives (more exposure, competition on e-book prices) the Kindle already brought are tangible and are a step ahead.
Now I am more and more inclined to the view that dedicated e-book devices are dead on arrival, or at best a niche market, and something like an open iPod touch or a cheaper umpc a la Raon will be the first to break out the e-book market

Well. said. You hit on all the vital problems that Amazon have yet to address.

agreed. The Amazons of the world still look at profit first and not long term.

I keep to my POCKET PC in hopes that a ebook reader device will enthrall me enough to buy it..yet I have only been disappointed thus far.



I think that you underestimate the financial sense of the public. There is a reason commercial e-books have been a bust until now, and it ain't the lack of a device or of the wireless delivery. Kindle brings nothing essentially new, it costs a lot, e-book prices are still high, content is still locked, and people ain't stupid.

Kindle may double the e-book market though I doubt it, but it would still be a minuscule thing, so I would not worry about Kindle cornering the market. And if Mobipocket dies or withers down, all the better, just to teach again the lesson that drm is bad and people should avoid it if not convertible.

On the other the positives (more exposure, competition on e-book prices) the Kindle already brought are tangible and are a step ahead.
Now I am more and more inclined to the view that dedicated e-book devices are dead on arrival, or at best a niche market, and something like an open iPod touch or a cheaper umpc a la Raon will be the first to break out the e-book market