View Full Version : Engadget reporting live from the Amazon event


Alexander Turcic
11-19-2007, 09:28 AM
http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/19/live-from-the-amazon-kindle-launch-event/

There are maybe a hundred seats (and people are still filing in), so we'll be getting started here in just a few.

Sparrow
11-19-2007, 09:43 AM
Thanks for the heads-up - should be interesting :smiley:

igorsk
11-19-2007, 09:43 AM
The word is "live" :)

JSWolf
11-19-2007, 09:44 AM
Too late, the Kindle is already old news. Good Morning America has a stary this morning on the Kindle, so the cat is out of the bag already.

CommanderROR
11-19-2007, 10:18 AM
Well the comments on Engadget are not exactly friendly...I guess amazon ist making some enemies today...

Alexander Turcic
11-19-2007, 10:19 AM
The word is "live" :)

A live mistake :smash: :)

dugbug
11-19-2007, 10:21 AM
When can mobileread get one and review it! This thing really looks like a mobile read killer app.

CommanderROR
11-19-2007, 10:27 AM
OK..the presentation is done, but nobody said anything about the world outside the US...that's just...sad...

Alexander Turcic
11-19-2007, 10:31 AM
OK..the presentation is done, but nobody said anything about the world outside the US...that's just...sad...

I feel your pain, Roland.

Did you see this:

"We archive your books in the cloud. If you ever lose a book, you can just redownload it again, it doesn't cost anything. If you want to clear out space on your Kindle knowing they're secure on the server, and in 60 seconds you can get it back again.

I don't think everyone is going to be happy to have his purchased books stored @ Amazon's rather than on your own computer.

igorsk
11-19-2007, 10:31 AM
An interesting tidbit:
"The side-selector appears to be LCD-based, not e-ink based. "
That's a pretty clever solution to the E-Ink refresh problem.

CommanderROR
11-19-2007, 10:34 AM
I would be extremely happy to have my books stored on amazon istead of on my computer...it would be another reason for me to buy it actually...

I hate the iTunes system where a file lost is a file gone...and somebody who likes to takes his computer apart on a more or less regular basis always runs the risk of losing some files...^^

dugbug
11-19-2007, 10:36 AM
I feel your pain, Roland.

Did you see this:



I don't think everyone is going to be happy to have his purchased books stored @ Amazon's rather than on your own computer.

Just the record of the purchase for a re-download. Lots of services do this.

The books are stored locally, so you can turn off the evdo while you read.

-d

Sparrow
11-19-2007, 10:37 AM
Presumably there is some sort of security onboard; or can someone steal yours and download amazon.com to it at your expense?

dugbug
11-19-2007, 10:37 AM
btw, this is probably a dumb question but was that a vixiplex updated display?

-d

Alexander Turcic
11-19-2007, 10:38 AM
Just the record of the purchase for a re-download. Lots of services do this.

The books are stored locally, so you can turn off the evdo while you read.

-d

But they are only stored locally on the device, not your computer, right? E.g. if you purchase a book from Sony Connect, you actually have a local copy of your purchase on your personal harddisk.

JSWolf
11-19-2007, 10:41 AM
Sounds like a fairly closed system to me. Let's now welcome Amazon into the world of Apple.

dugbug
11-19-2007, 10:42 AM
But they are only stored locally on the device, not your computer, right? E.g. if you purchase a book from Sony Connect, you actually have a local copy of your purchase on your personal harddisk.

Oh I misunderstood you. Don't know.. it comes with a USB cable and supports flash cards, maybe there is a companion PC sync option? for a one-day-to-be-announced kindle-reader-for-the-pc?

-d

TallMomof2
11-19-2007, 10:47 AM
Oh I misunderstood you. Don't know.. it comes with a USB cable and supports flash cards, maybe there is a companion PC sync option? for a one-day-to-be-announced kindle-reader-for-the-pc?

-d

Everything I've read and watched at Amazon gives me the impression that there is no computer sync option. You simply hook up to the computer to transfer your own files. In one video there was emphasis that you do not need to use a computer at all to acquire and read books. It does support an SD card. There is also an "experimental" (Amazon's name) text based web browser.

dugbug
11-19-2007, 10:51 AM
engadget has hands-on post up

"We're a little worried that the absolutely massive page forward / back buttons might get inadvertently triggered here and there, though."

good thought

Alexander Turcic
11-19-2007, 10:53 AM
engadget has hands-on post up

"We're a little worried that the absolutely massive page forward / back buttons might get inadvertently triggered here and there, though."

good thought

Thanks for the pointer. Link: http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/19/amazon-kindle-first-hands-on/

Alisa
11-19-2007, 10:53 AM
Sounds like a fairly closed system to me. Let's now welcome Amazon into the world of Apple.

Except this is even more closed and non-competitive than Apple without as much mass-market appeal, innovative design and cool factor.

tirsales
11-19-2007, 12:13 PM
Let me put it like this:
Would you buy an audio-player that:
a) supports only a proprietary system
b) supports only music bought in a single shop and NON of the widespread formats and doesn't allow you to play that music on ANY other device? Not even your PC?
No, Amazon is far worse than Apple.
I think they screwed this up for good - and I seriously hope they will fail with this. Fail hard. The alternative is just to scary to be mentioned here.
Okay, I warned you.
If the kindle is a success, I see a future where Amazon kind-of replaces Microsoft. Only Amazon will sell new eBooks and only Amazons devices will play them.

Am I disappointed? Yes.
How can a company be so fucking braindead to
a) learn NOTHING from the music-industry (to much DRM kills a market. To many filetypes kill a market, to closed systems kill a market)
b) insist on bringing ALL devices to the US market and NON to any other market - what is the sense in this? Okay, there is none. It is just braindead stupid.

ARGL. I just hope they fail like noone failed before.

HarryT
11-19-2007, 12:18 PM
Let me put it like this:
Would you buy an audio-player that:
a) supports only a proprietary system
b) supports only music bought in a single shop and NON of the widespread formats and doesn't allow you to play that music on ANY other device? Not even your PC?


In fairness, the Kindle is rather similar to Apple in that regard. Both the Kindle and the iPod allow you to buy DRM content from only one source (Amazon in the Kindle's case, iTunes in Apple's case), but upload non-DRM content from other sources. You can upload non-DRM content to the Kindle from a PC via USB.

b) insist on bringing ALL devices to the US market and NON to any other market - what is the sense in this? Okay, there is none. It is just braindead stupid.


It does rather amaze me how many companies seem to overlook the fact that the EU is a considerably larger market than the US :)

ARGL. I just hope they fail like noone failed before.

I wouldn't like to see them fail, but I certainly don't think they've gone about this in the right way at all.

NatCh
11-19-2007, 12:37 PM
Regarding storing the books on Amazon's servers -- they're doing this for movies on their "Amazon Unbox" service (basically you can rent or buy movies direct to your Tivo or other DVR if it's networked, it's a pretty neat service, but finding titles is a serious pain in the sitter-downer). I'm guessing that folks are embracing the model enough on videos that Amazon thinks it's worth trying with books. They probably have a point -- the average person doesn't want to have to keep track of such details, and they're inoculated to it by the iTunes effect. :shrug:

JSWolf
11-19-2007, 01:48 PM
Let me put it like this:
Would you buy an audio-player that:
a) supports only a proprietary system
b) supports only music bought in a single shop and NON of the widespread formats and doesn't allow you to play that music on ANY other device? Not even your PC?
No, Amazon is far worse than Apple.
I think they screwed this up for good - and I seriously hope they will fail with this. Fail hard. The alternative is just to scary to be mentioned here.
Okay, I warned you.
If the kindle is a success, I see a future where Amazon kind-of replaces Microsoft. Only Amazon will sell new eBooks and only Amazons devices will play them.
Most people won't care what format the Kindle supports. They just click, download, and read. It's that simple. They won' care about DRM. They won't care about the things we here care about. It will just work. They will get expensive hard cover books on their Kindle for about $10. They will save a bunch of money that way and eventually the Kindle will pay for itself. They won't care that the Kindle is a closed system. It will work for them and work well. I think it will succeed. And what this may do is get the NYTimes to maybe have an ebook bestseller list. It is good for ebooks in general, but not good for the competition. NAEB is in deep shit now (IMHO). They don't have the Gen3 for sale yet and already they are in trouble. Sony may very well be in trouble. Basically, I think the Kindle will take over the ebook market and if Amazon releases it in other countries, it will win there too.

Amazon has made content trivial to get and read. They have made it inexpensive as well for the content. The game is over and Amazon has won.

The GreatGonzo
11-19-2007, 01:50 PM
My favorite comment at Engadget is by the guy who points out that not even early adopters would shell out $399 for this device ... ahahahaha ... little does he know....

tirsales
11-19-2007, 02:21 PM
ARGL, I didn't even want to post that comment ... in fact I wanted to click "Go Advanced" because I wanted to rewrite it, suspend my notebook and have a look after walking my dog. Ah, whatever.

What I meant is: There are some really great ideas in the kindle. I *love* the idea of having WiFi-Access and directly downloading the books - so not being able to load them to my notebook and read them there kinda makes a stupid out of a brilliant idea. I guess I will nearly always have a reader where I have my notebook. But I just want to be able to use *both*.
I mean: if you life in the US and don't have access to Whispernet - how do you get your kindle books? And don't tell me that every little city and every little farm with some kind of internet-access will have a Whispernet-Access...
Newspaper directly to the eReader: WHOA! I preach "this will be the future of newspapers" to everyone not retreating fast enough for the last years - and they implement it! I love it! I mean: Perfect! And then - download only via Whispernet. Why?
Cheaper eBooks than nowadays and reading the first chapter for free? Perfect! But again: Kindle-Fileformat.

Sell only to US - why? I would love the device - providing it could read e.g. PDF and kindle-books were just mobipocket (or a similar existing version) which could at least be read on my notebook.
And no - Amazon is not like Apple:
I can listen to my iTunes-Songs on my PC. And I can play MP3 on the iPod - but I can't read PDFs on the Kindle and I can't read Kindle-Books on my PC. And at the very least those two options are more than needed.
Even Sony - king of DRM and senseless copyright-technologie that violates existing laws - had a more user-friendly DRM approach than than Amazon ... I never would have believed this to be possible...

Alisa
11-19-2007, 03:01 PM
Most people won't care what format the Kindle supports. They just click, download, and read. It's that simple. They won' care about DRM. They won't care about the things we here care about. It will just work. They will get expensive hard cover books on their Kindle for about $10. They will save a bunch of money that way and eventually the Kindle will pay for itself. They won't care that the Kindle is a closed system. It will work for them and work well. I think it will succeed. And what this may do is get the NYTimes to maybe have an ebook bestseller list. It is good for ebooks in general, but not good for the competition. NAEB is in deep shit now (IMHO). They don't have the Gen3 for sale yet and already they are in trouble. Sony may very well be in trouble. Basically, I think the Kindle will take over the ebook market and if Amazon releases it in other countries, it will win there too.

Amazon has made content trivial to get and read. They have made it inexpensive as well for the content. The game is over and Amazon has won.

I don't know how optimistic I am about whether of not they'll succeed. I'm still waiting and watching, but you bring up an excellent point that I think we tend to forget. We think of the market as our community and I don't think that's the market Amazon is really interested in. Us geeky early-adopter gadget freaks who rant on our forums about OSS and DRM are relatively few to a company like Amazon. They want to be iPod and iTunes for your slightly older, wealthier business traveler. This is someone who is probably not very tech savvy and doesn't want to be.

I can't tell you how many times I've read this online: "ZOMG!!!!11 I just got a new computer and plugged my iPod into it and it wiped out all my songs!" That's part of iTunes DRM. Your average iPod consumer doesn't realize it (until they get hit by it). People just assume that they're getting a certain level of fair use when they buy. They're not really reading up on it before hand. People grumble a bit but you don't see mass defection from iPods. Most people I know won't have one because of these kinds of practices. Are we hurting Apple's bottom line? No. Will Amazon's target market be as bovine as Apple's? That remains to be seen.

What's troubling me at the moment is that if Amazon succeeds, this may mean a lot more ebook titles available for all of us (yay!) but it becomes another success for restrictive DRM. More companies will probably try it. If they fail, it sets the ebook business back a fair ways. Many will interpret it as a lack of interest.

tirsales
11-19-2007, 03:06 PM
What's troubling me at the moment is that if Amazon succeeds, this may mean a lot more ebook titles available for all of us (yay!) but it becomes another success for restrictive DRM. More companies will probably try it. If they fail, it sets the ebook business back a fair ways. Many will interpret it as a lack of interest.

So: The kindle is bad news for eBooks. No matter if it succeeds or fails - it is bad news. BUT: I guess that - in the long run - a failure will be the better way.
Oh: However small the market from the geeks will be - geeks are essentially the carriers of a market. They start a market, they test new devices, they develop the new software, etc
We have more power than you imagine ;) (less than I would like, but more than you seem to think ;) )

Alisa
11-19-2007, 03:09 PM
So: The kindle is bad news for eBooks. No matter if it succeeds or fails - it is bad news. BUT: I guess that - in the long run - a failure will be the better way.
Oh: However small the market from the geeks will be - geeks are essentially the carriers of a market. They start a market, they test new devices, they develop the new software, etc
We have more power than you imagine ;) (less than I would like, but more than you seem to think ;) )

I didn't say we had no power, just that marketeers often underestimate it.

tirsales
11-19-2007, 03:14 PM
Then let us show it to them!

kacir
11-19-2007, 04:23 PM
ARGL. I just hope they fail like noone failed before.
Well, it would be quite difficult to fail more spectacularly than Sony failed with their Librie.

Do you remember Librie? The very first e-paper featuring reader. You could only read the content you purchased from Sony.
You could not read any other ebook on Librie.
You could not read Librie ebook in any other device.
Customers in Japan are more used to this kind of treatment than Americans, and yet Librie failed miserably even in Japan.

The Librie got hacked eventually, even if there were much fewer users that wanted or needed it hacked.

kacir
11-19-2007, 05:01 PM
Even Sony - king of DRM and senseless copyright-technologie that violates existing laws - had a more user-friendly DRM
Aehm ...
Do you remember Librie?
The king of proprietary, non-compatible solutions - Sony had to get burned by Librie before they made a more user friendly DRM system.

tirsales
11-19-2007, 05:05 PM
Yesyesyes, I meant the Reader, not the Librie. I deliberately "forgot" the Librie in my rant.

amoore
11-20-2007, 12:40 AM
ARGL, I didn't even want to post that comment ... in fact I wanted to click "Go Advanced" because I wanted to rewrite it, suspend my notebook and have a look after walking my dog. Ah, whatever.

What I meant is: There are some really great ideas in the kindle. I *love* the idea of having WiFi-Access and directly downloading the books - so not being able to load them to my notebook and read them there kinda makes a stupid out of a brilliant idea. I guess I will nearly always have a reader where I have my notebook. But I just want to be able to use *both*.
I mean: if you life in the US and don't have access to Whispernet - how do you get your kindle books? And don't tell me that every little city and every little farm with some kind of internet-access will have a Whispernet-Access...
Newspaper directly to the eReader: WHOA! I preach "this will be the future of newspapers" to everyone not retreating fast enough for the last years - and they implement it! I love it! I mean: Perfect! And then - download only via Whispernet. Why?
Cheaper eBooks than nowadays and reading the first chapter for free? Perfect! But again: Kindle-Fileformat.
.
It is true not every little city or farm has access to Whispernet however what I've noticed that has been over looked is that you can download the AZW file to your computer and connect the kindle via USB and transfer the file manually. Amazon is only promoting Whispernet for convenience to the customers. You make purchase from the Kindle it's self and with in moment you have your book. Dont even need to touch the computer.

HarryT
11-20-2007, 02:38 AM
It is true not every little city or farm has access to Whispernet however what I've noticed that has been over looked is that you can download the AZW file to your computer and connect the kindle via USB and transfer the file manually.

Er, no you can't - RTFM :). When you buy a book from the Kindle store your ONLY option is to transfer it via EVDO to the Kindle; there's no option to download it to your PC.

astra
11-20-2007, 07:14 AM
Most people won't care what format the Kindle supports. They just click, download, and read. It's that simple. They won' care about DRM. They won't care about the things we here care about. It will just work. They will get expensive hard cover books on their Kindle for about $10. They will save a bunch of money that way and eventually the Kindle will pay for itself. They won't care that the Kindle is a closed system. It will work for them and work well. I think it will succeed. And what this may do is get the NYTimes to maybe have an ebook bestseller list. It is good for ebooks in general, but not good for the competition. NAEB is in deep shit now (IMHO). They don't have the Gen3 for sale yet and already they are in trouble. Sony may very well be in trouble. Basically, I think the Kindle will take over the ebook market and if Amazon releases it in other countries, it will win there too.

Amazon has made content trivial to get and read. They have made it inexpensive as well for the content. The game is over and Amazon has won.

Although I don't like the reader itself, I could not agree more.

TallMomof2
11-20-2007, 09:06 AM
Er, no you can't - RTFM :). When you buy a book from the Kindle store your ONLY option is to transfer it via EVDO to the Kindle; there's no option to download it to your PC.

After you purchase a book (newspaper subscriptions seem to be different) you can go to "Your Media Library" on Amazon and download the book directly to your computer.

I also signed up for a newspaper subscription (first 14 days are free) and it *does not* show up in "Your Media Library". So I can't download it to my PC. Maybe it will after the 14 day free trial is over, maybe it won't. I do not know if magazine and blog subscriptions are treated the same.

amoore
11-23-2007, 05:05 AM
After you purchase a book (newspaper subscriptions seem to be different) you can go to "Your Media Library" on Amazon and download the book directly to your computer.

I also signed up for a newspaper subscription (first 14 days are free) and it *does not* show up in "Your Media Library". So I can't download it to my PC. Maybe it will after the 14 day free trial is over, maybe it won't. I do not know if magazine and blog subscriptions are treated the same.

I believe you can actually go to the manage your kindle page and change the subscription to go to Your media Library. Let me check on this and I'll post what i find out.