Just been re-reading David Eddings' "Belgariad" series. An excellent fantasy series, but I just spotted this "howler" in book 4 of the series:

"The Mrin Codex was an ancient-looking scroll..."

Mr Eddings really should go and look up the word "Codex" in a dictionary and find out what it means :).

Despite such errors, a series I can thoroughly recommend to anyone who enjoys "swords and sorcery" type fantasy novels.

I read Belgariad a couple of years ago, it was quite good as far as I remember. I should perhaps mention that in general I love monumental fantasy series.

I love the series - I've read it over and over again; I was just rather amused by this error. A "codex", in case anyone doesn't know, is a book. ie it is specifically not a scroll. The invention of the codex revolutionised reading because you can "flip through" a codex, whereas the only way to read a scroll is from "end to end" (plus the fact that, when you've finished it, you have to "rewind" it for the next reader).

maybe it was a rolled up book, so i kind of looked like a scroll :D

Didn't they used to convert scrolls to codexes (codexi?) by pleating them? Maybe this was a converted scroll. (I don't really think this is what Eddings meant, I'm just trying to think of ways to make the sentence make sense.)

Didn't they used to convert scrolls to codexes (codexi?) by pleating them? Maybe this was a converted scroll. (I don't really think this is what Eddings meant, I'm just trying to think of ways to make the sentence make sense.)

No, because the following sentences go on to describe how Garion had to get used to reading it by unrolling it with one hand, and rolling it up with the other. Sorry, but it's quite definitely a scroll :).

"1. an official list of chemicals or medicines etc."
maybe he meant that? shug

But he appears to be using "Codex" as a name, names get different rules (like, almost none :wink:), and often have little to do with definitions. :shrug:

On the other hand, Jason K. Chapman seems to think that "enervate" means the opposite of what it actually does. :grin:

But he appears to be using "Codex" as a name, names get different rules (like, almost none :wink:), and often have little to do with definitions. :shrug:


There are lots of historic documents called the "something-or-other codex"; eg, there's very well-known copy of New Testament called the "Codex Sinaiticus". However, the reason that they are called the something-or-other codex is, surprisingly enough, because without exception they are all in the form of a codex :). It's just stupid to call a scroll the something-or-other codex; a scroll isn't a codex.

Sorry, but I think the explanation is 99% certainly that Mr Eddings had vaguely heard the name "codex" being used in connection with ancient documents, thought that it sounded good, and decided to use it in his books without actually knowing what the word meant.

Sorry, but I think the explanation is 99% certainly that Mr Eddings had vaguely heard the name "codex" being used in connection with ancient documents, thought that it sounded good, and decided to use it in his books without actually knowing what the word meant.Oh, you're most likely dead on, but he gets some with me because he's using it as a name. :loco:

It would be as ridiculous as calling a city something like "The Big Apple" when it's not an apple, but a city.

:)

Or having a section of a city that was a totally separate entity from the rest, to the point of the titular head of state being barred from entering it. :laugh4:

Just been re-reading David Eddings' "Belgariad" series. An excellent fantasy series, but I just spotted this "howler" in book 4 of the series:

"The Mrin Codex was an ancient-looking scroll..."

Mr Eddings really should go and look up the word "Codex" in a dictionary and find out what it means :).

Despite such errors, a series I can thoroughly recommend to anyone who enjoys "swords and sorcery" type fantasy novels.

He cannot look up "Codex" or any other word in a dictionary anymore. He passed away half year ago I think.


I was not impressed by Belgariad.
I found it way too simple, naive, very young adult type fantasy.
He is a great fantasy author for kids and teenagers to get them into fantasy (10-15 years old). However, if you read him for the first time when you are older, after you have read a lot of other fantasy works then it is meh...

If I am not mistaken, The Belgariad was rebranded kid's fiction. Which suits it quite well :)

I'm sorry to hear that he's died - I didn't know that.

"Juvenile" or not, I thoroughly enjoyed every book of David Eddings - I think my very favourite is the standalone book "The Redemption of Althalus". He remains one of my favourite authors.

I think my very favourite is the standalone book "The Redemption of Althalus". He remains one of my favourite authors.

Oh my. How opinions vary...:D
While The Belgariad was digestble, The Redemption of Althalus is in the top 3 list of the worst fantasy books I have ever read in my life :disappoin. It was the last attempt to read Eddings. After this book I gave up :knife:

Maybe it was originally a codex, and aquired its name as such; but got converted to a scroll when the binding broke.

Just goes to show that some people have no taste in books :).

I like the Belgariad well enough, though it seemed that the women all had the same personality. Subsequent series all seemed to be only a rehash of the original's plot.

He cannot look up "Codex" or any other word in a dictionary anymore. He passed away half year ago I think.


I was not impressed by Belgariad.
I found it way too simple, naive, very young adult type fantasy.
He is a great fantasy author for kids and teenagers to get them into fantasy (10-15 years old). However, if you read him for the first time when you are older, after you have read a lot of other fantasy works then it is meh...

If I am not mistaken, The Belgariad was rebranded kid's fiction. Which suits it quite well :)

Forgive me to write in because I know nothing of this author but what language did he write in originally? And in which language have you read those Astra lestat?
It kind or reaches my 'beef' with translators. I suspect that in this case he might have embellished Belgariad's stories.

what language did he write in originally?
English

And in which language have you read those Astra lestat?
English

:2thumbsup

P.S. I know that I am not the only one who absolutely hates The Redemption of Althalus and who thinks that Eddings is kid's fantasy writer :)
I have read many topics on 2 big fantasy forums about it. However, I read Eddings before I joined these fantasy forums, so my opinion was not biased.
It is not a big deal :) I was just very surprised to hear it from Harry_T. Frankly speaking I have not met anyone yet (on forums) who likes The Redemption of Althalus.

Well you got me there!:smack:

I was just very surprised to hear it from Harry_T. Frankly speaking I have not met anyone yet (on forums) who likes The Redemption of Althalus.

I think it's an absolutely wonderful book. Just goes to show that, as you say, we all have different likes and dislikes!

On the other hand, Jason K. Chapman seems to think that "enervate" means the opposite of what it actually does. :grin:

Oh, sure. Pick on me when my back is turned. I swear it was energized in the original draft. As always, I blame it on the editor.

Jason's supposed error.. another one of those pesky OCR errors.

English


English

:2thumbsup

P.S. I know that I am not the only one who absolutely hates The Redemption of Althalus and who thinks that Eddings is kid's fantasy writer :)
I have read many topics on 2 big fantasy forums about it. However, I read Eddings before I joined these fantasy forums, so my opinion was not biased.
It is not a big deal :) I was just very surprised to hear it from Harry_T. Frankly speaking I have not met anyone yet (on forums) who likes The Redemption of Althalus.
Tell me astra, I would like to know what makes you feel this author is writing kid's books, I have not read him so I can not have a good idea yet. Does it have to do with the 'Category system' ?

If it's the kind of story then why do we read Harry Potter? Wasn't that supposed to be kid's stuff? Kid's stuff can be written in proper English and the stories be comforting and still complex. I believe that kids have to be talked to in the same correct way adults do; I hate seeing a parent goo-gooing! :grin: Even if a kid is not yet learned he still is as intelligent as he'll be for the rest of his life. He must be addressed so as to stimulate the use of his gift. To me, even at fifty, some adult stuff turning around sex, alcohol, drugs, violence, murder and war, is actually boring. If it does not have that spark of imagination, a sense of beauty and a touch of the marvelous, I'll get bored... and not like.

Oh, sure. Pick on me when my back is turned. I swear it was energized in the original draft. As always, I blame it on the editor.I only pick on people I like, Jason. :grin: And I'm really enjoying Heretic. :yes:

Tell me astra, I would like to know what makes you feel this author is writing kid's books, I have not read him so I can not have a good idea yet. Does it have to do with the 'Category system' ?

It is not serious. It is completely predictable. You ALWAYS know that protagonists will win and get from ANY situation unscathed. The Redemption of Althalus is beyond that. When a Goddess loves you and plans to make you her husband, you can do anything. There are no laws. You just think: I want a back door from this situation, and it is there for you. The Belgariad is just too naive. Kids who still believe and like fairy tales - are the target group :)
The storyline is simple, one dimention.

About translations.
I think I have figured out why I hate sci-fi.
I don't understand plain English.

I have started to read Black Man....

It has started with:

automated gurney as it tracks under a linear succession of lighting panels and lateral rood struts.
I had to open dictionary and translate it...done.

then: she is in the dorsal corridor. What does it mean?
next: the accustomed groggy swim of the decanting drugs. what is it?
next: One hand rests on her chest, pressing into the thin fabric of the cryocap leotard. I translated leotard but what is cryocap???


The cormorant's legacy, yes, again. what does it mean?

help? :(

A "codex", in case anyone doesn't know, is a book. ie it is specifically not a scroll. The invention of the codex revolutionised reading because you can "flip through" a codex, whereas the only way to read a scroll is from "end to end" (plus the fact that, when you've finished it, you have to "rewind" it for the next reader). i didn't know, thanks for that clarification! gotta check out that "karma" button!

codexes (codexi?) codices ?

then: she is in the dorsal corridor. What does it mean?


"dorsal" means "running along the spine". Eg, the fin of a shark is a "dorsal fin".

next: the accustomed groggy swim of the decanting drugs. what is it?

"decant" means "to pour out"

next: One hand rests on her chest, pressing into the thin fabric of the cryocap leotard. I translated leotard but what is cryocap???

That's not a normal English word, but the prefix "cryo" means "cold", so presumably it's some sort of "cold" cap.

The cormorant's legacy, yes, again. what does it mean?

A cormorant is a sea bird.

i didn't know, thanks for that clarification! gotta check out that "karma" button!

codices ?

Yes, "codices" would be the correct Latin plural, but "codexes" is just fine too in English.

Yes, "codices" would be the correct Latin plural, but "codexes" is just fine too in English.

From the Delerium-Webster dictionary:

Codex \ˈkäd'-eks\ n. singluar. A former spouse sharing several traits with a dead fish.

A cormorant is a sea bird.We call 'em "snake-birds" because when they're in the water about all you see is their necks and heads, which look like a snake rearing up out of the water.

Hey, maybe Nessie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nessie) is a great big cormorant!

Part of the pleasure reading science fiction is to be introduced to new things like "decanting drugs" and "cryocap" and learn by continue to read what they mean. Its part of the world building and your experience learning the new world. I just bought Richard Morgans Black Man in paperback and will soon read it. It sounded interesting when he talked about the book at a science fiction convention where he was guest of honor.

We call 'em "snake-birds" because when they're in the water about all you see is their necks and heads, which look like a snake rearing up out of the water.

Hey, maybe Nessie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nessie) is a great big cormorant!The cormorant does not have the typical feather coat other aquatic birds have and thus does not have the same buoyancy ie the reason they float low in water. The same fact also has them standing with outspread wings for hours to dry out. That would be quite fitting to that expression "Cormorant Legacy", I would venture towards its meaning "Never being on top of things". :shrug:

:book2:

The common cormorant (or shag)
Lays eggs inside a paper bag,
You follow the idea, no doubt?
It's to keep the lightning out.

But what these unobservant birds
Have never thought of, is that herds
Of wandering bears might come with buns
And steal the bags to hold the crumbs.

-- Christopher Isherwood

"Codices," yes. I did know that. Perhaps my brain is getting old. :(

I read sf partly because I love learning new words, or seeing words I know used in new ways. (Though I don't mean calling a scroll a codex!)

Did the author confuse a "Rolodex" with a Codex?

This reminds me of a controversy that stemmed around the use of several hyphens in the movie title: The 40-Year-Old Virgin

Alot of people thought there were too many hyphens in the title.

If you remove the first hyphen, it means there are 40 year-old virgins

remove the second hyphen it it makes it seem like 40 years there is an old virgin.

I wonder if they had to hire an entire english department to get the title right, because I remember reading some of the letters written in Roger Ebert column about the title and it was pretty funny.

I only pick on people I like, Jason. :grin: And I'm really enjoying Heretic. :yes:

Thanks! I'm glad you're enjoying it.

Someone who has read Black Man answered to my questions:

dorsal implies running along the top, back or spine of a ship, station or structure - like the dorsal fin of a fish that runs along its spine - the opposite is ventral

decanting means pouring out into another vessel - in context the "decanting drugs" are used when one is "poured out" of a cryocap; presumably in order to prevent shock.

In context the word "cormorant" is used as a code word; you'll understand later in the book as I do think it is more fully explained.

:2thumbsup

I did in fact answer you too, AL, in post #29 on the previous page :).

I did in fact answer you too, AL, in post #29 on the previous page :).

Yes, thank you very much :) :2thumbsup
Howevere, this is the reason why I said
Someone who has read Black Man

Do you see any difference between your answer and the one above?

Your answers were pretty much dictionary like. Except A cormorant is a sea bird I found most of them myself. I didn't have to be smart..goggle helped me :) but it didn't help me much in reading the book.

Thanks anyway!

Did the author confuse a "Rolodex" with a Codex?

This reminds me of a controversy that stemmed around the use of several hyphens in the movie title: The 40-Year-Old Virgin

Alot of people thought there were too many hyphens in the title.

If you remove the first hyphen, it means there are 40 year-old virgins

remove the second hyphen it it makes it seem like 40 years there is an old virgin.

I wonder if they had to hire an entire english department to get the title right, because I remember reading some of the letters written in Roger Ebert column about the title and it was pretty funny.
As I've seen it often written in French, the word codex is used in a figurative sense as a repository of ancient laws, or codes. When you think of ancient, you think of scrolls. Probably this author tried to use it this way. The proper meaning of codex is identical from French to English.

He cannot look up "Codex" or any other word in a dictionary anymore. He passed away half year ago I think.


I was not impressed by Belgariad.
I found it way too simple, naive, very young adult type fantasy.
He is a great fantasy author for kids and teenagers to get them into fantasy (10-15 years old). However, if you read him for the first time when you are older, after you have read a lot of other fantasy works then it is meh...

If I am not mistaken, The Belgariad was rebranded kid's fiction. Which suits it quite well :)

David Eddings is still kicking. It was his wife Leigh who passed away this year. She died of complications from a series of strokes in February.

AL,

I agree with you entirely that Eddings' books are simple, unsophisticated stories in which the "good guys" always win. Sometimes it's just nice to read stories like that when you don't feel like anything too "heavy". I read lots of more "serious" stuff too, but Eddings is nice when I want to relax with a pleasant story.

The Belgariad (or at least the last three books in the series) has recently been released as a MobiPocket eBook, which is what prompted me to re-read it.

David Eddings is still kicking. It was his wife Leigh who passed away this year. She died of complications from a series of strokes in February.

Oh, shame on me :o

Eddings was a favourite author when I was much younger.

The belgariad and it's prequels are still readable. The Mallorian was more than annoying as it's so repetative of the Belgariad.

Roa is just plain awful.

if writers really knew the meaning of their words they'd teach

most teachers can't write so they're safe

if writers really knew the meaning of their words they'd teach

most teachers can't write so they're safe

Well you know that saying "Those that can't..."

I only wish I was able to find the first three books of the Belgariad series in electronic format. Oddly enough books 4 and 5 are available as mobipocket (http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook49451.htm?cache), books 1-3 I cannot find. Even more confusing I find the fact that Randomhouse (who sell the complete series as paperback (http://www.randomhouse.com/gm/results.pperl?x=0&y=0&title_subtitle_auth_isbn=belgariad)), has books 4 and 5 available as one ebook (http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780345456434), but not books 1-3.

If anybody can push me into the right direction; maybe I just missed some ebook sller that has books 1-3 :)

No, that's all that's available right now. According to Fictionwise, the first 3 books are due to be released as eBooks in the new year.

No, that's all that's available right now. According to Fictionwise, the first 3 books are due to be released as eBooks in the new year.

Thanks for the info HarryT :)

What does vice charge in the following sentence mean? :rolleyes:

From my records, it seems Mr. X is being held on a putative Y County vice charge.

What does vice charge in the following sentence mean? :rolleyes:

From my records, it seems Mr. X is being held on a putative Y County vice charge.

It is ambiguous.
It also seems that Y County is only putatively a county: maybe it is only a village with pretensions.

What does vice charge in the following sentence mean? :rolleyes:

From my records, it seems Mr. X is being held on a putative Y County vice charge.
Mr X is being held on a morals* charge that was alleged to have occurred in Y county.

*Gambling, drugs, prostitution, molestation, etc.

Thanks guys :)

Actually, this sentence makes very little sense.
The word 'putative' has no clear scope to operate, leaving a meaningless sentence.

It cannot refer to the county: either Y is a county or it is not - there's nothing putative about its status.
And either actual criminal charges have been pressed or they have not. It makes no sense to speak of a putative charge.
Presumably the author intended to convey the idea of an alleged offence but has managed to get his grammar and his ideas confused.
Would you mind saying where the sentence is from? I would like to use it to illustrate a lecture on scope ambiguity and lexical ambiguity.

It is the same Black Man/Thirteen book.

The original looks like that (I hope it not a crime to type 2 sentences from a book here :)):
"From my records, it seems Mr. Marsalis is being held on a putative Dade County vice charge. And hasn't even been formally arraigned yet."

I was curious what does vice charge mean. Is it a legal term or has any other meaning. I mean what type of charges is vice charges. I think, Mogui interpreted it correctly.

I think in this contest putative refers to vice charges. However, your explanation about why it cannot refer to county is very interesting :) (Mine is intuitive, yours is sort of professional analysis). Although, Dade County doesn't exist as far as I understand so it could be that Mr. M is being held on imagined moral charges pressed on him by equally imagined county.

There is a Dade county, just south of Broward county Ft. Lauderdale. I think Miami could be in Dade county. I lived there in another life.:D

There is a Dade county, just south of Broward county Ft. Lauderdale. I think Miami could be in Dade county. I lived there in another life.:D

I wish I didn't say it! :o

The term "vice" is used frequently on US TV, where big city police departments have departments dedicated to the eradication of vice. Since two correspondents above are from the UK, it would seem the term "vice" is not a part of their culture. True?

The term "vice" is used frequently on US TV, where big city police departments have departments dedicated to the eradication of vice. Since two correspondents above are from the UK, it would seem the term "vice" is not a part of their culture. True?

Yes, it is used in the UK. Most British police forces have a "vice squad" which deals with issues such a prostitution. I would have thought that it would be a word that most British people would be familiar with.

Yes, it is used in the UK. Most British police forces have a "vice squad" which deals with issues such a prostitution. I would have thought that it would be a word that most British people would be familiar with.

Don't count on me, I lived in the UK only for 5 years :)

He was caught when he was "giving" money to a prostitute. So, issues such a prostitution fits in.

Yes, it is used in the UK. Most British police forces have a "vice squad" which deals with issues such a prostitution. I would have thought that it would be a word that most British people would be familiar with.

Yes, but we don't have a president in charge of it :D