View Full Version : NAEB/Baen sells Cybook OEM device for US$375


wallcraft
11-08-2007, 08:44 PM
Pamela Gadsden has posted NAEB's price of the Cybook Gen3 OEM device (http://naebllc.com/page4.html) @ Baen's Bar: The reader with its' own battery + 1 USB cable + 1 USB AC charge device + 1 cover + 1 SD card 1 GB + earphones.

$375 USD
plus shipping and handling (S&H) and tax where applicable

The statement is also at naebllc.com (http://naebllc.com/).

This is basically the Cybook Deluxe edition, at a $75 saving. Pamela also says: If you're in the euro zone order the reader direct from Bookeen.

I'm ready to send in my money.

delphidb96
11-08-2007, 09:23 PM
Pamela Gadsden has posted NAEB's price on Baen's Bar:

The statement is also at naebllc.com (http://naebllc.com/).

This is the DeLuxe version, at a $75 saving. Pamela also says

I'm ready to send in my money.


Getting the bank account for that even as we speak. :) Should be able to receive those funds by middle of next week.

And it's not *exactly* the same as the Deluxe package as ours does not come with the *EXTRA* battery pack.

Derek

HarryT
11-09-2007, 02:21 AM
Another very trivial difference is that the standard Bookeen package comes with a 2GB SD card rather than 1GB.

horseyride
11-09-2007, 09:01 AM
Now if someone would just do a comparison to the 505 to help me decide...I think its coming down to font control vs battery life

HarryT
11-09-2007, 09:10 AM
Battery life? Both machines have amazingly good battery life - worry about other things if you want, but battery life is a complete "non issue".

IreneDelse
11-09-2007, 09:28 AM
Another very trivial difference is that the standard Bookeen package comes with a 2GB SD card rather than 1GB.
You mean, the differance with the Deluxe Bookeen package? ;)

HarryT
11-09-2007, 09:51 AM
Sorry, I meant with the standard "Deluxe" package that Bookeen supply, as opposed to the custom NAEB package. The word "standard" was confusing, I apologise.

UncleDuke
11-09-2007, 10:24 AM
same screen as the sony 505?

astra
11-09-2007, 10:26 AM
same screen as the sony 505?

Ehm.. Who does have 505 and Cybook Gen3? I am most curious about the comparison :)

HarryT
11-09-2007, 10:27 AM
Identical screen, but different controller. The 505 can display 8 grey-scales, the Gen3 only 4. Probably completely irrevelent in normal use except, perhaps, if you're a "mango" fan (is that the right word?).

JSWolf
11-09-2007, 10:30 AM
The 505 and Gen3 are both using the 6" Vizplex screen. The only difference is in the controller used. Teh 505 can display 8 shades while the Gen3 can only display 4 shades.

paulkbiba
11-09-2007, 10:38 AM
Very disappointed in the price. To pay extra for a bunch of dime-store stuff (cables, earphones, etc.) is a real shame. I would rather that they bought the basic version and then priced it competitively with the Sony Reader. No sale for me.

AnemicOak
11-09-2007, 10:38 AM
And it's not *exactly* the same as the Deluxe package as ours does not come with the *EXTRA* battery pack.

Good thing you pointed that out as the statement on the website implies that it's the deluxe package folks are getting for $75 less, at least that's how I read it.

JSWolf
11-09-2007, 10:48 AM
And you are only getting a 1gig SD card instead of a 2gig SD card.

tompe
11-09-2007, 10:56 AM
You should probably look at it that you are paying extra for the leather case and you really need a case so it seems smart to include that in the package to avoid complaints.

da_jane
11-09-2007, 11:19 AM
I have to agree with Paul. I would have much rather seen NAEB choose the standard/basic package and price it at $300. At $300, I would have gladly recommended it to the readers at DA. At $375 for headphones, a charger, a case, and an SD card doesn't really seem like a bargain, even though the Cybook can read more formats (html being the biggie for me).

Sony comes with a case. I doubt that there is a person out there that doesn't have headphones and a 2 GB branded SD card can be had for less than $30.

Nate the great
11-09-2007, 11:19 AM
The 505 and Gen3 are both using the 6" Vizplex screen. The only difference is in the controller used. Teh 505 can display 8 shades while the Gen3 can only display 4 shades.

You forget the software on the devices. Bookeen has already done a couple things I like. If I wasn't already invested in the 500, I would get a Gen3.

astra
11-09-2007, 11:34 AM
You forget the software on the devices. Bookeen has already done a couple things I like.

For example?

HarryT
11-09-2007, 11:35 AM
Being able to add your own fonts is very nice indeed; so is the user-replaceable battery.

HarryT
11-09-2007, 11:41 AM
I have to agree with Paul. I would have much rather seen NAEB choose the standard/basic package and price it at $300. At $300, I would have gladly recommended it to the readers at DA. At $375 for headphones, a charger, a case, and an SD card doesn't really seem like a bargain, even though the Cybook can read more formats (html being the biggie for me).

Sony comes with a case. I doubt that there is a person out there that doesn't have headphones and a 2 GB branded SD card can be had for less than $30.

I wouldn't moan about the price too much. Compared with the price that we in Europe are paying (in the UK's case, about US$509 for the bare reader) you're getting a damned good deal :).

Nate the great
11-09-2007, 11:44 AM
Being able to add your own fonts is very nice indeed; so is the user-replaceable battery.

Those are nice. I also like the pop-up menus and the ability to see more than ten titles at a time.

I bet that Bookeen will soon add a real author name index, as well as folders. They seem more responsive than Sony wrt upgrade and improvements.

DaleDe
11-09-2007, 11:55 AM
Identical screen, but different controller. The 505 can display 8 grey-scales, the Gen3 only 4. Probably completely irrevelent in normal use except, perhaps, if you're a "mango" fan (is that the right word?).

Since the Gen3 really displays 16 shades of gray based on Derek's tests and examples I would say that mango fans would be pleased. It is what you see that is important in this case, not what the hardware does.

Perhaps someone can post real world images to put this to bed.

Dale

delphidb96
11-09-2007, 12:01 PM
Very disappointed in the price. To pay extra for a bunch of dime-store stuff (cables, earphones, etc.) is a real shame. I would rather that they bought the basic version and then priced it competitively with the Sony Reader. No sale for me.

If we *could*, we would. To sell the Basic for $300 would mean *WE*, NAEB would be selling it for a significant (That means at least $40, possibly more.) loss! I love you guys, but I'm not about to *PAY* for you to get an unbelievable deal on the Cybook Gen3 basic kit. :)

Derek

delphidb96
11-09-2007, 12:12 PM
I have to agree with Paul. I would have much rather seen NAEB choose the standard/basic package and price it at $300. At $300, I would have gladly recommended it to the readers at DA. At $375 for headphones, a charger, a case, and an SD card doesn't really seem like a bargain, even though the Cybook can read more formats (html being the biggie for me).

Sony comes with a case. I doubt that there is a person out there that doesn't have headphones and a 2 GB branded SD card can be had for less than $30.

Jane,

Look, I'm sorry you feel that way. But to be completely up front, if we were to market the Basic version for $300 or less, we'd be *paying* about $40-$45 (it depends on a few costs we haven't nailed down yet) more for each unit sold *more* than we charged. I love you all, but I'm not about to pay out of my own pocket for you to own a Cybook. And given that our $375 price is far less than the $450 of the regular Deluxe Cybook Gen3, I think it's a pretty good deal for this device. Plus, we actually break even on the deal.

One thing to consider is that there are plenty of 2GB SD cards available on eBay for far less than the $24.95 retail price if the customer really needs one. (Although, I've found I can stick about 1,000 titles on a 1GB card. Which makes for LOOOOooooonnngggg browsing times when finding some titles.)

And if you've looked at the Bookeen accessories page, you'll notice the 800mAH battery pack runs $44.95 retail. Given few battery packs show problems, the extra battery pack is not a 'needed' item. We pass the savings on to you!

Please reconsider your viewpoint.

Derek

JSWolf
11-09-2007, 12:13 PM
Without the deluxe edition, do you get a case of any kind?

HarryT
11-09-2007, 12:16 PM
Without the deluxe edition, do you get a case of any kind?

You don't get a case with the basic Gen3, but you can buy one as a separate accessory from Bookeen. It's an excellent case - far better than the Sony one.

JSWolf
11-09-2007, 12:37 PM
I can't say.. I've not seen the Sony leather case for the 505. But thr case that comes with the 505 is pretty good.

horseyride
11-09-2007, 12:49 PM
I'm not sure why you would lose money on a basic-only deal. You are obviously getting a bulk discount on buying most of the deluxe kit, so it would seem possible to negotiate a bulk discount on buying just the unit itself. The logic escapes me as why that would lose money. That said, thanks for the effort

if we were to market the Basic version for $300 or less, we'd be *paying* about $40-$45 (it depends on a few costs we haven't nailed down yet) more for each unit sold *more* than we charged. I love you all, but I'm not about to pay out of my own pocket for you to own a Cybook. And given that our $375 price is far less than the $450 of the regular Deluxe Cybook Gen3, I think it's a pretty good deal for this device. Plus, we actually break even on the deal.

Barcey
11-09-2007, 12:59 PM
If we *could*, we would. To sell the Basic for $300 would mean *WE*, NAEB would be selling it for a significant (That means at least $40, possibly more.) loss! I love you guys, but I'm not about to *PAY* for you to get an unbelievable deal on the Cybook Gen3 basic kit. :)

Derek

Come on Christmas is coming. If you really loved us you'd give us all one for free.:2thumbsup

It's an understandable mis perception that if you can sell the Deluxe edition for $75 cheaper you could sell the basic for $50 cheaper. I understand that part of that $75 is no spare battery and sourcing a cheaper 1GB SD card.

I think you've made a good choice for a real user configuration rather then selling at an artificial low price and then have people find out it doesn't have a case. (I wouldn't want to use mine without one). Unless you're planning on using it for MP3's then the 1GB is more then you'll need for books and future firmware upgrades. Bookeen claims 10,000 books on the 2GB so 5,000 is plenty. :D Even if you think you need to take more books with you browsing and search speeds just aren't fast enough to handle it.

Alisa
11-09-2007, 01:32 PM
Come on Christmas is coming. If you really loved us you'd give us all one for free.:2thumbsup

Ohohoh and while you're at it, can I have a pony, too? Personally I think this is a great price and I'm ready to plunk down the cash. I just hope it gets into my hot little hands in time for Christmas travel.

wallcraft
11-09-2007, 01:34 PM
Before the reviews of the Cybook started coming in, I was intending to get a "basic" version. However, I am now sold on the leather case. With the NAEB deal, for $25 above the basic price I get the case (a $39.95 "value") plus some other stuff which I could have bought locally but is nice to have. This isn't a deep discount, but it is the best available deal for US buyers.

Is it worth the extra cost over the Sony PRS-505? I think it certainly is to anyone who currently has a library of MobiPocket books. For others, in the US, the Sony may be the better buy, particularly if you are comfortable with the fact that your e-books from Sony may not be transferable to a new device when it comes time to retire this one.

jbenny
11-09-2007, 01:38 PM
I don't understand all the griping about the price. Getting a Cybook and leather cover from Bookeen costs $389.95, plus shipping from Europe (this has to cost more than US shipping). For $375 from NAEB, you get the same two items, plus some extra stuff. If you don't want the extra stuff, throw it away. You still got the reader and cover for less than the normal price.

HarryT
11-09-2007, 01:42 PM
Before the reviews of the Cybook started coming in, I was intending to get a "basic" version. However, I am now sold on the leather case.

The case is essential, IMHO. The Gen3 is so "slimline" that I wouldn't feel safe putting it in any sort of bag without the protection of a case.

Alisa
11-09-2007, 01:45 PM
I don't understand all the griping about the price. Getting a Cybook and leather cover from Bookeen costs $389.95, plus shipping from Europe (this has to cost more than US shipping). For $375 from NAEB, you get the same two items, plus some extra stuff. If you don't want the extra stuff, throw it away. You still got the reader and cover for less than the normal price.

That's how I'm looking at it. I wasn't interested in all the other stuff in the deluxe package, just the reader and the case. So if I'm getting that for I figure about $38 less (I think the shipping to US was $23) that's good enough for me. The fact that I get that other stuff is just gravy.

da_jane
11-09-2007, 02:43 PM
And if you've looked at the Bookeen accessories page, you'll notice the 800mAH battery pack runs $44.95 retail. Given few battery packs show problems, the extra battery pack is not a 'needed' item. We pass the savings on to you!

The whole benefit of an eink device is the extra battery time of the installed battery. Having used the Sony PRS 500 for a significant amount of time, I can say that there would be rare occurrences that you would ever need an extra battery.

And the fact that you might need an extra battery because the one that comes installed in the unit is defective seems illogical to me and actually serves to highlight one of the issues I mentioned to the DA readers last week and that was repair issues. If, in fact, there are defective installed battery units, I don't want to have to pay to have an extra battery unit to replace the defective one. I want a non defective one.

And no one expects BAEN to sell units as a loss or that we readers want BAEN to "pay" for us to get an eink device. What I am saying, though, is that I don't see a sufficient enough advantage to recommend a unit that is $75.00 more than a comparable unit sold in the US and serviced in the US.

For overseas people, it might make a lot of sense but economically, it doesn't make sense to me as a US reader.

Nate the great
11-09-2007, 02:47 PM
And no one expects BAEN to sell units as a loss or that we readers want BAEN to "pay" for us to get an eink device. What I am saying, though, is that I don't see a sufficient enough advantage to recommend a unit that is $75.00 more than a comparable unit sold in the US and serviced in the US.

You mean NAEB, Not Baen. Though it is interesting that they are anagrams of each other. I never noticed that before. :)

da_jane
11-09-2007, 03:13 PM
Whoops - that was a freudian slip for sure.

rjnagle
11-09-2007, 03:42 PM
Way to go Derek! I'm psyched! I'm ready to buy ASAP. When do you want my money? When do you start shipping?

yvanleterrible
11-09-2007, 04:34 PM
Have the units started to arrive to the subscribers?

wallcraft
11-09-2007, 04:55 PM
You might want to verify and change a typo in your title. I wanted to make it private but since you don't accept PMs I had to go public.

NAEB/Bean sells Cybook OEM device for US$375

I did not change the title. I don't think NAEB/Baen is correct anyway.

JSWolf
11-09-2007, 05:02 PM
The case is essential, IMHO. The Gen3 is so "slimline" that I wouldn't feel safe putting it in any sort of bag without the protection of a case.
It's not a matter of how slim it is. I would not put it in a bag without some sort of protection for the screen. Any eink device needs protection for the screen otherwise, you can kiss most of your money goodbye.

NatCh
11-09-2007, 05:44 PM
Identical screen, but different controller. The 505 can display 8 grey-scales, the Gen3 only 4. Probably completely irrevelent in normal use except, perhaps, if you're a "mango" fan (is that the right word?).80% right (by number of letters) it's "Manga" :wink:

NatCh
11-09-2007, 05:53 PM
I did not change the title. I don't think NAEB/Baen is correct anyway.NAEB is correct, and Baen is correct, but you originally entered "bean" -- I'll adjust it for you though, since we seem to all be agreed as to what you meant. :grin:

CharlieBird
11-09-2007, 06:31 PM
Do we know how the warranty will work under NAEB? Don't think I've missed a single thread on the Gen3.

AnemicOak
11-09-2007, 06:37 PM
Do we know how the warranty will work under NAEB? Don't think I've missed a single thread on the Gen3.

From a post on the Bar...

"Warranty returns will be handled through NAEB. However it is the same warranty as offered by Bookeen, so the period and standard exclusions remain the same."

delphidb96
11-09-2007, 06:51 PM
And if you've looked at the Bookeen accessories page, you'll notice the 800mAH battery pack runs $44.95 retail. Given few battery packs show problems, the extra battery pack is not a 'needed' item. We pass the savings on to you!

The whole benefit of an eink device is the extra battery time of the installed battery. Having used the Sony PRS 500 for a significant amount of time, I can say that there would be rare occurrences that you would ever need an extra battery.

And the fact that you might need an extra battery because the one that comes installed in the unit is defective seems illogical to me and actually serves to highlight one of the issues I mentioned to the DA readers last week and that was repair issues. If, in fact, there are defective installed battery units, I don't want to have to pay to have an extra battery unit to replace the defective one. I want a non defective one.

And no one expects BAEN to sell units as a loss or that we readers want BAEN to "pay" for us to get an eink device. What I am saying, though, is that I don't see a sufficient enough advantage to recommend a unit that is $75.00 more than a comparable unit sold in the US and serviced in the US.

For overseas people, it might make a lot of sense but economically, it doesn't make sense to me as a US reader.

Jane,

What it comes down to is, are you willing to bet that the vast majority of current titles are going to be released in Sony's BBeB format? And, if so, how long are you willing to wait? Because far more titles are available in Mobipocket format right now. Thus, it makes sense to pay somewhat extra for that capability. I note that one can always shell out *really* big bucks and buy an iRex iLiad, but I don't think most people here would consider that to be a fiscally sound decision.

Derek

DaleDe
11-09-2007, 06:59 PM
From a post on the Bar...

"Warranty returns will be handled through NAEB. However it is the same warranty as offered by Bookeen, so the period and standard exclusions remain the same."

The NAEB web site needs to be brought up to date. The spec page has many errors compared to Bookeen such as stating no support for DRM. It is hard to know exactly what your getting and what is the same and what is different. the home page specifically says you are getting a deluxe model but that is not quite right either since you don't get the second battery. Hopefully they will correct site. Warranty should be listed on the site. The site isn't that big so there is no excuse really for it being out of date, if they really want to be in business.

Dale

delphidb96
11-09-2007, 07:06 PM
The NAEB web site needs to be brought up to date. The spec page has many errors compared to Bookeen such as stating no support for DRM. It is hard to know exactly what your getting and what is the same and what is different. the home page specifically says you are getting a deluxe model but that is not quite right either since you don't get the second battery. Hopefully they will correct site. Warranty should be listed on the site. The site isn't that big so there is no excuse really for it being out of date, if they really want to be in business.

Dale

Thank you for pointing this out. We'll be updating this weekend.

Derek

Alisa
11-09-2007, 07:51 PM
Derek -
Do you have any idea when you'll be receiving your shipment? I understand it's going to take you awhile to process orders and it's hard to make promises but I'm just trying to gauge how long I'll have to wait.

JSWolf
11-09-2007, 07:59 PM
I've been noticing that a lot of current books are out in BBeB format. But, if you follow the way to get DRM free books, then it doesn't matter if you have a Gen3 or a 505 as you'll be purchasing the very same copies of the same books. Of course, if the book is not available in MS Reader format, then hopefully it will be available in BBeb or Mobi formats depending on which device you get. One thing I will say, lit2lrf makes converting MS Reader format books to BBeB a snap.

AnemicOak
11-09-2007, 08:39 PM
Jane,

What it comes down to is, are you willing to bet that the vast majority of current titles are going to be released in Sony's BBeB format? And, if so, how long are you willing to wait? Because far more titles are available in Mobipocket format right now. Thus, it makes sense to pay somewhat extra for that capability. I note that one can always shell out *really* big bucks and buy an iRex iLiad, but I don't think most people here would consider that to be a fiscally sound decision.

Derek

This is very true. For most folks I'm sure there will be an advantage to having Mobi as their main format (even if they do have some terrible pricing on some stuff).

I guess personally I don't want to be locked into any DRM'd format that isn't cracked just in case. Mobipocket has a much better chance of being around 10-20 years from now (I want my ebooks to last just as long as my pbooks) format wise since it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Sony does the same thing with their ebook operation that they're doing with their music operation sometime in the future. Me, I'll stick with LIT's that I can convert to whatever format is needed.

AnemicOak
11-09-2007, 08:41 PM
Thank you for pointing this out. We'll be updating this weekend.

One thing you might want to make known on the site (otherwise I'm sure you'll get asked a lot) is if folks will be able to get them in time for the holidays.

mcdaniel
11-10-2007, 12:07 PM
I would have already bought a Sony Reader, despite my dislike of their BBeB DRM, except for the fact that they tied their computer interface to computers with Windows as the operating system. Since I am a long time user of Apple's Mac computers, I did not want to jump through all the hoops I would have faced in transferring digital books to the Sony Reader and installing updates to the Sony Reader firmware. :blink:

The Bookeen site makes it clear that the Cybook simply uses the USB from any computer for its interface, i.e., not dependent upon the computer's OS. :D

Both the Sony Reader and Cybook are nice devices. It is simply that Sony made some decisions that effectively ruined the use of their device by anyone with a non-Windows OS.

I will be ordering the Bookeen Cybook Gen 3 through NAEB because I will be able to interface with my iMac. :crowngrin

Robert

bwit
11-10-2007, 12:19 PM
I would have already bought a Sony Reader, despite my dislike of their BBeB DRM, except for the fact that they tied their computer interface to computers with Windows as the operating system.

Robert,

I don't blame you for ordering a Bookeen but I believe the restriction you mention with Sony is only for the PRS-500. I think the PRS-505 acts as a USB drive just line the Bookeen.

Bob

HarryT
11-10-2007, 12:28 PM
Robert,

I don't blame you for ordering a Bookeen but I believe the restriction you mention with Sony is only for the PRS-500. I think the PRS-505 acts as a USB drive just line the Bookeen.

Bob

That's true as far as file transfer goes, but the Windows-only software is still required to buy eBooks from the Connect Store. With the Gen3, one can buy books using any web browser.

delphidb96
11-10-2007, 12:55 PM
That's true as far as file transfer goes, but the Windows-only software is still required to buy eBooks from the Connect Store. With the Gen3, one can buy books using any web browser.

And this *is* a problem for many people (the PRS's Connect software not being accessible outside a Windoze environment) because they don't want to go through the less-than-legal ebook channels for the titles they want. Score one for the Cybook!

Derek

HarryT
11-10-2007, 01:07 PM
And this *is* a problem for many people (the PRS's Connect software not being accessible outside a Windoze environment) because they don't want to go through the less-than-legal ebook channels for the titles they want. Score one for the Cybook!

Derek

Hi Derek,

Do you really think that there are "many" people who don't have access to a Windows PC? As I understand it, Windows has somewhere around a mid-90s % market share of the desktop market, with the Mac running at about 5% and Linux well under 1%. While many people may wish for a native Linux or Mac version of "Connect", I suspect that most of those people do have access to a machine running Windows if they're being honest about it :).

I very much believe that being able to buy books using a simple web browser is a far more convenient approach, but I'm unconvinced that "Connect" being Windows-only is really a practical problem for many people.

delphidb96
11-10-2007, 01:27 PM
Hi Derek,

Do you really think that there are "many" people who don't have access to a Windows PC? As I understand it, Windows has somewhere around a mid-90s % market share of the desktop market, with the Mac running at about 5% and Linux well under 1%. While many people may wish for a native Linux or Mac version of "Connect", I suspect that most of those people do have access to a machine running Windows if they're being honest about it :).

I very much believe that being able to buy books using a simple web browser is a far more convenient approach, but I'm unconvinced that "Connect" being Windows-only is really a practical problem for many people.

Harry,

You may be right. I don't dispute your guesstimate for Windoze vs Linux/Mac ownership - after all, I'm viewing this edit box using IE7... But I've had frustration with Connect, even under Windoze. Not to mention the fact that Connect offers so few of the titles I want - and which I *can* get through the various sites offering Mobipocket versions of titles. All the more reason to buy a Mobi-capable eInk reader.

Derek

Xenophon
11-10-2007, 03:05 PM
[SNIP]
I very much believe that being able to buy books using a simple web browser is a far more convenient approach, but I'm unconvinced that "Connect" being Windows-only is really a practical problem for many people.
It all depends on how you read the market share numbers. You've quoted one version of the share numbers roughly correctly. But...


The Mac installed base is rather larger than its trailing year sales %, because Macs stay in service nearly 2x longer than typical PCs.
Many of the PC sales counted are for applications that are effectively 'embedded.' Think cash registers, and the like.
The PC is disproportionately installed on desks in the work-place. This doesn't change the "market share," but does mean that the percentage of Macs in homes is a good deal higher than the sales numbers would indicate.
When considering those workplace PCs, remember that many employers do not permit users to install ANY software on the desktops they use at work. This rather removes those machines from the 'access to a PC' part of the equation.
Lastly, Mac market share has really been picking up in the last 4-6 quarters. The most recent numbers I saw were nearing 20% of U.S. retail sales. That's not the entire market, of course, but it seems like a good proxy for 'machines on which a user might install the Connect software.'


In my own case, I do 'have access to a Windows machine.' But it's in the lab at school, and I mostly use my Sony Reader at home. Having to schlep in to school to buy or download books rather fails the convenience test, don't you think? Alternatively, I could run windows on my Powerbook via Bootcamp or Parallels, or the like. While I'm a student, that'd be fairly affordable -- $19.95 for a copy of the university-site-licensed Windows disk, plus $69.95 for an academic copy of Parallels at the University bookstore. Of course, that adds $80 to the price of my Sony Reader. On top of which, it'd be the only reason for me to have a copy of Windows at all. Again... not convenient.

I guess what I'm going on about here is that the lack of Mac/Linux support (for the Sony reader) really raises the cost of entry for non-Windows users. Although we are clearly a minority, the absolute numbers are large.

By the way, the added cost to build cross-platform software needn't be large. At the companies I've worked at in the past, it added less than 5% to the cost of producing the software (testing included!) -- as long as you planned for it and designed for it from the start.* Blizzard (makers of World of Warcraft, among others) reports added costs around 3%. Given that Mac+Linux market share has never yet dropped below 5%, I've never been able to fathom why more software makers don't just build cross-platform from the get-go. The business case is trivial to make...

For example, compare Kovid Goyal's one-man-part-time libprs500 (running on Windows, Mac, and a bunch of Linux OSs) to the connect software. Sony's programmers and managers really have no excuse! And that's even allowing for the fact that users are more forgiving of free software than they would be for software that has cost them money.

Xenophon

* Retrofitting cross-platform-ness into an application originally designed for just one platform is a whole lot more expensive.

IreneDelse
11-10-2007, 05:18 PM
In my own case, I do 'have access to a Windows machine.' But it's in the lab at school, and I mostly use my Sony Reader at home. Having to schlep in to school to buy or download books rather fails the convenience test, don't you think? Alternatively, I could run windows on my Powerbook via Bootcamp or Parallels, or the like. While I'm a student, that'd be fairly affordable -- $19.95 for a copy of the university-site-licensed Windows disk, plus $69.95 for an academic copy of Parallels at the University bookstore. Of course, that adds $80 to the price of my Sony Reader. On top of which, it'd be the only reason for me to have a copy of Windows at all. Again... not convenient.

Same for me. I use a Linux Ubuntu box at home, and although I have access to a Windows system at work, installing new software (like the Sony Connect) on that machine is definitely prohibited!

nekokami
11-10-2007, 06:23 PM
I think another possible consideration is that people who buy ebook readers are not a typical cross-section of the population, at this point. I would venture to guess they are generally more technical than the population at large, which may affect which OS they use. (Of course, it could also affect how many systems they might have access to-- at this point, probably most people who have Linux running on a machine have a license for some flavor of Windows on that box-- but it could be pretty old. How new does the version of Windows have to be to support Connect?)

I'm not trying to get into the whole Mac vs. PC thing, just speculating on how the usual demographic numbers might or might not fit the ebook reader population.

tompe
11-10-2007, 07:26 PM
I run Linux on all my machines. I happens to have Windows XP on the laptop I am writing this on but this is only for emergencies and buying a book is not an emergency worth rebooting the computer for.

ashalan
11-11-2007, 04:59 AM
... anybody tried to use Mobipocket Reader and Sony's Software (Connect?) with Wine (http://winehq.org/)?

Been using Wine under Linux sucessfully to even play games and as far as I know Wine should also work for Apples running OSX+ (it's Unix after all).

So maybe anybody can give it a shot.

delphidb96
11-11-2007, 11:54 AM
... anybody tried to use Mobipocket Reader and Sony's Software (Connect?) with Wine (http://winehq.org/)?

Been using Wine under Linux sucessfully to even play games and as far as I know Wine should also work for Apples running OSX+ (it's Unix after all).

So maybe anybody can give it a shot.

Feel free. MobiReader is a free download. :)

Being one of those with a Windoze household, this isn't a problem for me. Although I'm just about ready to buy an iMac to test out for myself. :)

Derek

ashalan
11-11-2007, 12:00 PM
Feel free. MobiReader is a free download. :)

Being one of those with a Windoze household, this isn't a problem for me. Although I'm just about ready to buy an iMac to test out for myself. :)

Derek

No Linux installed anywhere currently and since all the software I need runs on windows and I use windows at work I cannot be bothered to install Linux, to be honest ;)

Was just trying to push the people affected by the issue toward a possible solution :rolleyes:

wallcraft
11-11-2007, 12:14 PM
The problem for wine may be USB support.

In any case, I think MobiPocket should pay CodeWeavers (http://www.codeweavers.com/services/) to port their Windows Reader to OSX and Linux under wine. This would most likely only provide a Desktop solution (not a Linux handheld device solution), but would greatly improve their image for (probably) not much money.

delphidb96
11-11-2007, 12:25 PM
The problem for wine may be USB support.

In any case, I think MobiPocket should pay CodeWeavers (http://www.codeweavers.com/services/) to port their Windows Reader to OSX and Linux under wine. This would most likely only provide a Desktop solution (not a Linux handheld device solution), but would greatly improve their image for (probably) not much money.

Might be a good idea. However, think for a minute... Bookeen already *has* the information for Mobipocket's format, legally. And they've already made their internal reader capable of opening and displaying Secure Mobipocket ebooks. What's to prevent them from making a Linux Desktop version MobiReader? Or for that matter, a Mac OS/X version?

Bookeen, are you listening??? :)

Derek

Nate the great
11-11-2007, 12:32 PM
What's to prevent them from making a Linux Desktop version MobiReader? Or for that matter, a Mac OS/X version?

The contract they signed with Mobipocket.

IreneDelse
11-11-2007, 12:47 PM
The contract they signed with Mobipocket.
I'll second that! ;)

I guess that, as a third party, Bookeen have access to enough Mobipocket info to develop Mobi support on their device, but to develop a concurrent Mobi reader software would be a breach of contract.

Now, I do hope Mobipocket is paying attention to the input from us Cybook buyers who who would like to have a Mobipocket reader software compatible with their Apple or Linux personal computer... :pray:

DaleDe
11-11-2007, 01:19 PM
I'll second that! ;)

I guess that, as a third party, Bookeen have access to enough Mobipocket info to develop Mobi support on their device, but to develop a concurrent Mobi reader software would be a breach of contract.

Now, I do hope Mobipocket is paying attention to the input from us Cybook buyers who who would like to have a Mobipocket reader software compatible with their Apple or Linux personal computer... :pray:

The Windows version (what you really want) is a lot different from the version that Bookeen has. It has the manager stuff and the conversion stuff built in. No other version from MobiPocket has that extra portion of the reader.

Dale

delphidb96
11-11-2007, 02:19 PM
The contract they signed with Mobipocket.

But what I meant to express was that since they *have* signed a contract with Mobipocket *and* they already know how the Secure Mobi format works, as well as how Linux works, what's to prevent them from doing the port *FOR* Mobipocket? Other than Mobipocket's desire to do so in house?

Derek

JSWolf
11-11-2007, 05:05 PM
... anybody tried to use Mobipocket Reader and Sony's Software (Connect?) with Wine (http://winehq.org/)?

Been using Wine under Linux successfully to even play games and as far as I know Wine should also work for Apples running OSX+ (it's Unix after all).

So maybe anybody can give it a shot.
Wine is a good idea to the Ebook Library with. But do not use Wine to upgrade the firmware. You have a good chance of bricking. You'll need a true Windows system. An emulated Windows may not always have the USB timing needed for a critical application such as a firmware upgrade.

bwit
11-11-2007, 05:21 PM
Wine is a good idea to the Ebook Library with. But do not use Wine to upgrade the firmware. You have a good chance of bricking. You'll need a true Windows system. An emulated Windows may not always have the USB timing needed for a critical application such as a firmware upgrade.

I haven't received my Cybook yet (sigh) but I was under the impression that the firmware was updated from the SD card.

Bob

JSWolf
11-11-2007, 06:06 PM
Someone mentioned using Ebook Library under Wine. Nothing to do with the Gen3's firmware updates.

Alisa
11-12-2007, 04:11 PM
So has anyone been contacted about purchase details or possible ship dates? I signed up on the list but I'm wondering if I just somehow got overlooked. Any word on if we're going to have to wait until December?

AnemicOak
11-12-2007, 04:21 PM
So has anyone been contacted about purchase details or possible ship dates? I signed up on the list but I'm wondering if I just somehow got overlooked. Any word on if we're going to have to wait until December?

Nope, I'm on their mailing list & haven't gotten anything. I don't think they've sent it out yet. Nothing new really on their site or the Bar either.

rixte
11-12-2007, 05:14 PM
Nope, I'm on their mailing list & haven't gotten anything. I don't think they've sent it out yet. Nothing new really on their site or the Bar either.


Same. It's why I ended up just going with the Bookeen order - I liked the NAEB concept and would have loved to save a little bit of money, but I just feel so out of the loop there - and would have hated to find out that I wasn't going to end up getting the product until February or something.

delphidb96
11-12-2007, 05:25 PM
Same. It's why I ended up just going with the Bookeen order - I liked the NAEB concept and would have loved to save a little bit of money, but I just feel so out of the loop there - and would have hated to find out that I wasn't going to end up getting the product until February or something.

Right now we're working on getting the bank set up to actually accept orders through our e-store. That should be in place by the end of the week or early next. Then we're going to notify everyone who gave us their email addresses through the pre-signup form that we're open for business. We'd like to have our order placed by the last week in November, which will be enough time to get them shipped over here in early December.

Derek

dgho
11-12-2007, 07:13 PM
Is it possible to send the Cybook (NAEB) to Singapore ? or better to order directly from Bookeen ? I'm really interested to get one...

Thanks.

delphidb96
11-12-2007, 07:59 PM
Is it possible to send the Cybook (NAEB) to Singapore ? or better to order directly from Bookeen ? I'm really interested to get one...

Thanks.

Yes to either.

Derek

BKeeper
11-13-2007, 01:52 AM
@Derek
I know NAEB is supposed to handle returns in the US, but do you know if Bookeen could process NAEB warranties directly in France? That would be great for your European buyers.

levirothschild
11-13-2007, 12:30 PM
Hey,
I was wondering, what is the difference between the new sony reader 505 and cybook? dont they both have the same functions, beside mobipocket?

HarryT
11-13-2007, 12:52 PM
They are both devices for reading books, and they both display books on the same screen, but other than those common factors they differ considerably in the details of their hardware and software features.

Probably best to read the detailed spec on the Sony and Bookeen web sites to get a general idea of the differences. Ask here if you have specific questions, by all means.

Nate the great
11-13-2007, 01:19 PM
Hey,
I was wondering, what is the difference between the new sony reader 505 and cybook? dont they both have the same functions, beside mobipocket?

The Cybook has a significantly better PDF viewer, txt viewer, html viewer, and menu system. All around it is a better device.

astra
11-13-2007, 01:22 PM
The Cybook has a significantly better PDF viewer, txt viewer, html viewer, and menu system. All around it is a better device.

I just read today a review done by 2 guys. 1 has sony another cybook. Both agreed that sony is much better....

Anyway, how can it have a much better pdf viewer? 6" is 6".

Nate the great
11-13-2007, 01:33 PM
Look at this review:
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15952

Dave Berk
11-13-2007, 01:46 PM
Hi astra lestat. Could you supply a link to the review? I also consider buying one of them, but I can't seem to make up my mind... :grin2: They both have their pro's and con's, and there's just no single deciding feature that can swing me one way...

astra
11-13-2007, 02:15 PM
Hi astra lestat. Could you supply a link to the review? I also consider buying one of them, but I can't seem to make up my mind... :grin2: They both have their pro's and con's, and there's just no single deciding feature that can swing me one way...

It is in Russian...

astra
11-13-2007, 02:16 PM
Look at this review:
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15952

Didn't find anything about a better PDF viwer? What do I miss?

Nate the great
11-13-2007, 02:18 PM
Didn't find anything about a better PDF viwer? What do I miss?

Look at posts 3 and 4. I think what and how the Cybook does is much better than the Sony Reader.

astra
11-13-2007, 02:25 PM
Look at posts 3 and 4. I think what and how the Cybook does is much better than the Sony Reader.

Sorry but I am not convinced. The same sht. Pardon my French.
The only reader that can boast a better pdf viewer is iRex which has a real zoom capability and 8.1" screen.
Anyway, just my IMHO.

Nate the great
11-13-2007, 02:31 PM
Sorry but I am not convinced. The same sht. Pardon my French.
The only reader that can boast a better pdf viewer is iRex which has a real zoom capability and 8.1" screen.
Anyway, just my IMHO.

I agree that it's not very good yet. But it is Bookeen's first try, and already at least slightly better than Sony. I would bet money that it will improve with the next firmware.

delphidb96
11-13-2007, 02:33 PM
Sorry but I am not convinced. The same sht. Pardon my French.
The only reader that can boast a better pdf viewer is iRex which has a real zoom capability and 8.1" screen.
Anyway, just my IMHO.

Well, pan and zoom for PDFs is on the way for the Cybook, so that problem will go away soon. That leaves screen size-and I agree that a larger screen, such as the one in the iLiad, is better for A4 and larger PDF files. See? Here I am, a happy Cybook and PRS500 owner saying that.

(Of course, every chance I get, I take PDF ebooks apart and convert them into Mobi ebooks. :D )

Derek

Nate the great
11-13-2007, 02:37 PM
Well, pan and zoom for PDFs is on the way for the Cybook, so that problem will go away soon. That leaves screen size-and I agree that a larger screen, such as the one in the iLiad, is better for A4 and larger PDF files. See? Here I am, a happy Cybook and PRS500 owner saying that.

(Of course, every chance I get, I take PDF ebooks apart and convert them into Mobi ebooks. :D )

Derek

I've been boosting NAEB and the Cybook based on that eventual pan and zoom. I know that I have talked at least 3 people out of a Sony Reader.

astra
11-13-2007, 04:16 PM
Well, pan and zoom for PDFs is on the way for the Cybook, so that problem will go away soon. That leaves screen size-and I agree that a larger screen, such as the one in the iLiad, is better for A4 and larger PDF files. See? Here I am, a happy Cybook and PRS500 owner saying that.

(Of course, every chance I get, I take PDF ebooks apart and convert them into Mobi ebooks. :D )

Derek

Look, I am not trying to say Gen3 is worse.
Honestly.

There is one thing I really like about it - HTML support. I wish Sony did it..:(

However, PDF....no zoom is going to make it nice on 6". It has nothing to do with any brand or make or whatever.

astra
11-13-2007, 04:18 PM
I've been boosting NAEB and the Cybook based on that eventual pan and zoom. I know that I have talked at least 3 people out of a Sony Reader.

I think I managed to convince 1 person for Sony :)


Well, I gave him as much info as I could and sent him here and to e-book.org. Up to him to decide. He decided he wants Sony.

IreneDelse
11-13-2007, 04:20 PM
Sorry but I am not convinced. The same sht. Pardon my French.

You know, that's pretty ironic, considering Bookeen's nationality. ;)

astra
11-13-2007, 04:25 PM
You know, that's pretty ironic, considering Bookeen's nationality. ;)

:o
Now I feel embaraced.
I hope.....it is not offensive for French? Otherwise I will edit it.

porkupan
11-13-2007, 04:27 PM
I've been boosting NAEB and the Cybook based on that eventual pan and zoom. I know that I have talked at least 3 people out of a Sony Reader.
Well, Nate, you've been around for a while, so it surprises me that you put so much weight into a manufacturer's announced willingness to extend the capabilities of a product. It's quite possible that Bookeen will follow up on their intent and fix up all the stuff they say they will fix up. But making this stated intent a basis for purchasing decisions... isn't it a bit naive?

The way the consumer electronic manufacturing world works seems to point in the opposite direction. Once the product has been released, 90% of the resources are immediately pulled out, the ones left directed to concentrate on small bug fixes and DRM improvements. The major resources are thrown into the next generation, whenever that may come out.

In theory Sony could add all the same features and more to their devices. The could add text search, better PDF support, ability to delete books, pan and zoom in PDF, etc. etc. But they haven't, because they figured the device was good enough as it was. The only reason Bookeen may be any better is that they seem to be a much smaller company, ebook readers being their major business.

Now, ergonomically Sony Reader 505 seems to be much better than Cybook. That was the agreement of the two Russian guys who had a chance compare the two. They also agreed that the manufacturing quality of the Sony Reader was obviously significantly better. Software wise, the 30+ second Cybook startup doesn't compare well with instant-on, offered by the Sony Reader (even if not from complete shutdown, but from "sleep" low power mode). The PDF reader in Cybook is not better now (it may be better in the future, but this is just speculation). But for reading non-technical, non-PDF literature (fiction, etc.) the Reader is already equipped just as well of better than Cybook, and will probably stay so.

Nate the great
11-13-2007, 05:12 PM
Well, Nate, you've been around for a while, so it surprises me that you put so much weight into a manufacturer's announced willingness to extend the capabilities of a product. It's quite possible that Bookeen will follow up on their intent and fix up all the stuff they say they will fix up. But making this stated intent a basis for purchasing decisions... isn't it a bit naive?

The way the consumer electronic manufacturing world works seems to point in the opposite direction. Once the product has been released, 90% of the resources are immediately pulled out, the ones left directed to concentrate on small bug fixes and DRM improvements. The major resources are thrown into the next generation, whenever that may come out.

In theory Sony could add all the same features and more to their devices. The could add text search, better PDF support, ability to delete books, pan and zoom in PDF, etc. etc. But they haven't, because they figured the device was good enough as it was. The only reason Bookeen may be any better is that they seem to be a much smaller company, ebook readers being their major business.

Now, ergonomically Sony Reader 505 seems to be much better than Cybook. That was the agreement of the two Russian guys who had a chance compare the two. They also agreed that the manufacturing quality of the Sony Reader was obviously significantly better. Software wise, the 30+ second Cybook startup doesn't compare well with instant-on, offered by the Sony Reader (even if not from complete shutdown, but from "sleep" low power mode). The PDF reader in Cybook is not better now (it may be better in the future, but this is just speculation). But for reading non-technical, non-PDF literature (fiction, etc.) the Reader is already equipped just as well of better than Cybook, and will probably stay so.

Perhaps it is. But my gut instinct says that the Cybook will get better than the Sony Reader. I also believe, based on the reviews here, that it is the equal of the 505 now.

tompe
11-13-2007, 05:22 PM
Now, ergonomically Sony Reader 505 seems to be much better than Cybook. That was the agreement of the two Russian guys who had a chance compare the two. They also agreed that the manufacturing quality of the Sony Reader was obviously significantly better. Software wise, the 30+ second Cybook startup doesn't compare well with instant-on, offered by the Sony Reader (even if not from complete shutdown, but from "sleep" low power mode). The PDF reader in Cybook is not better now (it may be better in the future, but this is just speculation). But for reading non-technical, non-PDF literature (fiction, etc.) the Reader is already equipped just as well of better than Cybook, and will probably stay so.

Why was 505 ergonomically better? And how do you tell that the manufacturing quality is better? I do not turn my Cybook off so there is no delay in starting reading.

For reading fiction the Cybook is for me much better since it supports dictionary lookup and it will probably stay better in the future also. It is also lighter so ergonomically it is better.

wallcraft
11-13-2007, 05:29 PM
The way the consumer electronic manufacturing world works seems to point in the opposite direction. Once the product has been released, 90% of the resources are immediately pulled out, the ones left directed to concentrate on small bug fixes and DRM improvements. The major resources are thrown into the next generation, whenever that may come out. This certainly describes Sony's approach to e-book readers. Bookeen might be different because (a) their only business is e-books and (b) their next generation device is likely to be Vizplex with a larger screen (so most of the software may apply to both devices).

JSWolf
11-13-2007, 05:36 PM
Of course, the 505 is supposed to have Adobe Digital Editions sometime in 2008. And for all we know, the PDF reading may end up being improved as well. I think it's a wait and see. You don't know what's what for either device based on speculation and that's all it so right now for both the Gen3 and the 505. Plus, you cannot be sure of what Bookeen or Sony will do in the future when newer screens are released. All I know is you have the 505 as it is now and you have the Gen3 as it is now. What I say is the 505 has some of the better tools for content creations/conversion.

Alisa
11-13-2007, 05:40 PM
Of course, the 505 is supposed to have Adobe Digital Editions sometime in 2008. And for all we know, the PDF reading may end up being improved as well. I think it's a wait and see. You don't know what's what for either device based on speculation and that's all it so right now for both the Gen3 and the 505. Plus, you cannot be sure of what Bookeen or Sony will do in the future when newer screens are released. All I know is you have the 505 as it is now and you have the Gen3 as it is now. What I say is the 505 has some of the better tools for content creations/conversion.

Well you just had to go and make my life harder, didn't you? The main draw of the Cybook for me is Mobipocket but I would also love to have something that can read the ADE books from Overdrive. They have more ADE than Mobi, actually. Not to mention the 505 is really gorgeous. I popped into a SonyStyle store this weekend just to take a peek at it and it has a fantastic look and feel. I wish Amazon would throw us a bone and let us know if their books are going to be locked down to the Kindle or not.

porkupan
11-13-2007, 05:45 PM
Why was 505 ergonomically better? And how do you tell that the manufacturing quality is better? I do not turn my Cybook off so there is no delay in starting reading.

For reading fiction the Cybook is for me much better since it supports dictionary lookup and it will probably stay better in the future also. It is also lighter so ergonomically it is better.
Well, I am not going to argue that for you Cybook may be better. I know quite a few people who swear the Hanlin Jinke ebook is the best, while others keep complaining about the poor quality of manufacturing. So, the better-worse comparisons are very subjective, often what one thinks is better has to do with the money already spent on a certain device. I can only relate what I read.

The look-and-feel. Supposedly, the exterior of the Cybook reader just feels cheaper (black plastic vs metal in case of Sony), the controls are more ergonomically located in the Sony Reader (paging on both the right-hand side and the left-hand side), the connector plugs located inconveniently, only charges via USB - that sort of thing. Being lighter is better? How much lighter - would you be able to feel the difference? But if you like your Cybook as is, it's great, I am glad you do.

Lots of software already out there for Sony - to convert from every possible format.

And the fact that you don't turn it off shows that you don't travel much with your new ebook reader. Or you would be surprised to find your Cybook always on a new unexpected page when you take it out of your bag or your pocket. So, you will probably end up turning it off anyway, and then waiting for it to start up when you want to read it.

But the dictionary lookup feature is a clear advantage, I agree. Not very important for many of us, but very important for the others. Just like text search - I would love to have it, but the others don't care.

delphidb96
11-13-2007, 05:53 PM
Look, I am not trying to say Gen3 is worse.
Honestly.

There is one thing I really like about it - HTML support. I wish Sony did it..:(

However, PDF....no zoom is going to make it nice on 6". It has nothing to do with any brand or make or whatever.

I tend to agree with you. I think *most* people would agree with you that any of these 6" eInk displays aren't really suited for Letter or larger PDF documents. For that, an 8" or larger display is necessary.

However, I also think most people who are using them for pleasure reading are going to be satisified with the more-compact size of the 6" eInk devices.

Derek

IreneDelse
11-13-2007, 05:59 PM
:o
Now I feel embaraced.
I hope.....it is not offensive for French? Otherwise I will edit it.
Don't feel bad about it! We have our own language jokes about other people's countries and languages. ;)

tompe
11-13-2007, 06:03 PM
The look-and-feel. Supposedly, the exterior of the Cybook reader just feels cheaper (black plastic vs metal in case of Sony), the controls are more ergonomically located in the Sony Reader (paging on both the right-hand side and the left-hand side), the connector plugs located inconveniently, only charges via USB - that sort of thing. Being lighter is better? How much lighter - would you be able to feel the difference? But if you like your Cybook as is, it's great, I am glad you do.

Lots of software already out there for Sony - to convert from every possible format.

And the fact that you don't turn it off shows that you don't travel much with your new ebook reader. Or you would be surprised to find your Cybook always on a new unexpected page when you take it out of your bag or your pocket. So, you will probably end up turning it off anyway, and then waiting for it to start up when you want to read it.


The page will not turn when travelling if you use the leather case and I suspect it will not happen without it either since you have to press the page turn button rather hard to turn a page. And you do not touch the page turning buttons when handling the Cybook.

I do not think the external feel says anything about the internal build quality. I agree that the page turn button seems much better on the 505. Only charging via USB I think is a good thing since I am very tired to have one charger for each device. It is very good that USB has become a kind of standard.

Since the Cybook support a lot of formats directly you do not need to convert files...

The Cybook is 70 gram lighter but maybe the leather case will add 70 gram. It is much easier to hold a lighter device in different positions and when I read for a long time I want to be able to change position often.

Barcey
11-13-2007, 06:30 PM
Well, Nate, you've been around for a while, so it surprises me that you put so much weight into a manufacturer's announced willingness to extend the capabilities of a product. It's quite possible that Bookeen will follow up on their intent and fix up all the stuff they say they will fix up. But making this stated intent a basis for purchasing decisions... isn't it a bit naive?



I actually don't think it's naive since the product specifications say that the firmware is upgradeable via the SD card.

I agree with what you're saying about companies not traditionally doing this but the internet has made it much less expensive for them to distribute enhancements and upgrades. When I compare the product specifications for the 505 and the Gen3 they are basically identical. The differentiator is the firmware and this is the value the companies can add to the base hardware. I'm hoping the competition will influence both companies to update. I guess I'm naive too.

The Sony PS3 that I bought in March has has it's features significantly enhanced since I bought (via internet updates) so don't give up on Sony enhancing the PRS50x line. (:oops2: Of course the price has dropped as well but that's the price of being an early adopter). Maybe Sony wouldn't have done all these feature upgrades if the sales were better and they didn't have the competition from XBOX 360 and Wii.

Pickle
11-20-2007, 10:41 AM
Does anyone know when NAEB is going to start selling Cybooks? I have already purchased one from Bookeen and I'm trying to wait so I can buy a second from NAEB, but if they don't have something soon I'll go with Bookeen directly again.

delphidb96
11-20-2007, 12:58 PM
Does anyone know when NAEB is going to start selling Cybooks? I have already purchased one from Bookeen and I'm trying to wait so I can buy a second from NAEB, but if they don't have something soon I'll go with Bookeen directly again.

We're getting our store finalized this week. By Monday the 26th for sure it will be up and people will be getting notified.

Derek

Pickle
11-20-2007, 01:02 PM
We're getting our store finalized this week. By Monday the 29th for sure it will be up and people will be getting notified.

Derek

Thanks Derek, I know you guys have been putting a lot of effort into this and I want to support what you're doing. Unfortunately I'm also very impatient and my wife and I aren't very good at sharing the one Cybook we currently have.

delphidb96
11-20-2007, 06:23 PM
Thanks Derek, I know you guys have been putting a lot of effort into this and I want to support what you're doing. Unfortunately I'm also very impatient and my wife and I aren't very good at sharing the one Cybook we currently have.


Well this is your lucky day! I made a slight miscalculation on the date and we should have everything started by the 26th or 27th! So get your checkbook/credit card out!

Derek

JSWolf
11-20-2007, 06:44 PM
Well this is your lucky day! I made a slight miscalculation on the date and we should have everything started by the 26th or 27th! So get your checkbook/credit card out!

Derek
And expect to get lot of "When are you going to add in support for Amazon Kindle editions?" questions.

HarryT
11-21-2007, 02:18 AM
And expect to get lot of "When are you going to add in support for Amazon Kindle editions?" questions.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that you can buy a "Kindle Edition" book unless you have a Kindle, can you? I suspect that rather few people will buy both a Kindle and a Gen3.

astra
11-21-2007, 05:31 AM
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that you can buy a "Kindle Edition" book unless you have a Kindle, can you? I suspect that rather few people will buy both a Kindle and a Gen3.

Yeah, but it is not going to stop owners of Cybook/Sony Reader/iRex etc., want it :)

gwynevans
11-22-2007, 04:39 AM
Just reading this thread and wondering about the comment on the site about the Euro Zone.
If you're in the euro zone order the reader direct from Bookeen. If you order it through us the combination of taxes and shipping cost will send the price past any savings you might have achieved.
I'd offer the observation that the $375 price is 182, which allows a fair amount of leeway for taxes & shipping before you match the 315 ($649!) list price of the Deluxe package bought direct!

wallcraft
11-25-2007, 02:30 PM
And expect to get lot of "When are you going to add in support for Amazon Kindle editions?" questions. I agree, and I suggest the following answer:

Secure AZW files are not readable on any device except the Kindle.

Secure MOBI files from other e-book sellers support up to 4 devices, including one or more Cybooks, but are not readable on the Kindle.

Most multi-format e-books include a DRM-free MobiPocket version, which is readable on both the Cybook and the Kindle.

Demented
11-26-2007, 05:16 PM
Delphidb96, I've been trying to get some info on NAEB's cybook shipment but my PMs and e-mails have gone unanswered. I was wondering if NAEB expected receive a shipment of Cybooks during the same period that Bookeen references on their site. Also it's the 26th any update on your store? I happen to work for a software company that does custom e-commerce solutions if you're having trouble getting things set up:)

delphidb96
11-26-2007, 05:42 PM
Delphidb96, I've been trying to get some info on NAEB's cybook shipment but my PMs and e-mails have gone unanswered. I was wondering if NAEB expected receive a shipment of Cybooks during the same period that Bookeen references on their site. Also it's the 26th any update on your store? I happen to work for a software company that does custom e-commerce solutions if you're having trouble getting things set up:)

An update. We have *one* last thing to accomplish before we can open our merchant account and hook that up to our webstore. I've submitted the paperwork and paid the fees this very afternoon. Tomorrow morning I'll get the *ONE THING* I need from the CA Secretary of State and we'll be getting our bank account number tomorrow afternoon. So hold tight. By the end of the week, everything will be integrated.


Yes, for everyone interested, I'd just like to pass on the fact that there is a TON of paperwork needed at city, county, state and federal levels to get a business to the point of opening a checking/merchant bank account. And, of course, at the city and state levels, they're constantly changing the requirements - adding needed steps, etc. :smack: Oh! What! Joy!

Derek

Demented
11-26-2007, 06:43 PM
I'll do your payment gateway integration for a free Cybook:P P.S. I assume you plan on doing a decent volume of CC purchases and for amounts in excess of 200k per month it takes like 3-5 days to get merchant account approval.

HarryT
11-28-2007, 03:14 AM
I agree, and I suggest the following answer:

Secure AZW files are locked to a single Kindle. They are not readable on any device except the Kindle.


This is not entirely correct. Kindle books can be shared among up to 6 different Kindles.

wallcraft
11-28-2007, 09:52 AM
I think it is correct that AZW files are locked to a single Kindle, but I agree that Kindles can share an account and therefore share e-books. This is a significantly different kind of sharing that the "any 4 PIDs" approach that MobiPocket takes, but it might be a preferred by parents who want to monitor what their kids read (for example).

In any case, I have removed the "single Kindle" reference in the original post.

Nate the great
11-28-2007, 10:07 AM
I think it is correct that AZW files are locked to a single Kindle, but I agree that Kindles can share an account and therefore share e-books. This is a significantly different kind of sharing that the "any 4 PIDs" approach that MobiPocket takes, but it might be a preferred by parents who want to monitor what their kids read (for example).

In any case, I have removed the "single Kindle" reference in the original post.

I am pretty sure that you're wrong on this. I can download a file to my laptop. I know that I can make multiple copies of that file on CDs, flash drives, etc. What would stop me from making a copy on several SD cards and sticking one in each of several Kindles registered on an account?

I don't actually have several Kindles, but this makes sense to me because it is basically the same procedure as Mobipocket.

nekokami
11-28-2007, 10:21 AM
I wonder what happens if you disassociate a Kindle from an Amazon Kindle account? Do the books on that account stop working on that Kindle?

DaleDe
11-28-2007, 11:10 AM
I wonder what happens if you disassociate a Kindle from an Amazon Kindle account? Do the books on that account stop working on that Kindle?

The books will not download any longer for that machine but books already on that machine are likely to continue to work fine.

Dale

wallcraft
11-28-2007, 12:37 PM
What would stop me from making a copy on several SD cards and sticking one in each of several Kindles registered on an account? The PID of the device is needed to decrypt the file. So with a Secure MOBI or Secure AZW file, you can make as many copies as you like but they will only run on devices with the same PID, or PIDs, the file was encrypted for. Amazon could produce one AZW file for all Kindle's on an account, but the direct connection between the Kindle and Amazon's servers make it more likely they regenerate the file on request for the Kindle that is making the request to the server (after checking it is authorized). The other reason I think they have single-PID files is the 6 device limit. So far as I know, the MobiPocket limit is 4 (or less). However, it is certainly possible that the MobiPocket format supports 6 devices, but MobiPocket sets a maximum of 4 for non-technical reasons (e.g. licencing issues).

Now we need to find someone with multiple Kindles on one account to find out for sure.

nekokami
11-28-2007, 01:12 PM
Hm. That would seem to indicate that the PIDs associated with an Amazon account are all encrypted into the file on download. So they're using a modification of Mobi that allows multiple PIDs per file.

How does that work with regular Mobipocket books? If you download a version to read on your PC, but then you add another device, do you have to download again to get a version with both the PC and the new device in the PID part of the file?

wallcraft
11-28-2007, 01:22 PM
How does that work with regular Mobipocket books? If you download a version to read on your PC, but then you add another device, do you have to download again to get a version with both the PC and the new device in the PID part of the file? Yes. The Windows MobiPocket Reader might do the download for you automatically in some cases, but in others you have to explicitly download it again.

nekokami
11-28-2007, 01:41 PM
So when you download a Mobipocket file, if you have two (or more) devices registered to the same account, does the same file work on all the registered devices? Or do you have to download it separately for each device?

wallcraft
11-28-2007, 01:54 PM
The same file works on up to 4 devices (4 PIDs). You can also delete PIDs and the old files still work on the deleted PIDs, but the re-downloaded files won't.

nekokami
11-28-2007, 01:59 PM
Oh, ok. I thought I remembered someone in one of the Kindle threads suggesting that storing multiple PIDs in one DRM'd file was new with the Kindle, vs. the regular Mobipocket format, so I thought that might have been the justification for why they fiddled with the format. But I guess it's just a monopoly strategy after all.

Demented
11-29-2007, 05:11 PM
Any update for us?

dcalder
12-02-2007, 07:52 PM
When will the readers actually be available for purchase, shipment, and delivery? I've been holding off on ordering a Cybook in order to get one of these but I'd really like to get it before Christmas. If the NAEB readers aren't ready very soon, I'll probably give in and order from Bookeen before their shipping dates shift any later.

AnemicOak
12-02-2007, 08:57 PM
When will the readers actually be available for purchase, shipment, and delivery? I've been holding off on ordering a Cybook in order to get one of these but I'd really like to get it before Christmas. If the NAEB readers aren't ready very soon, I'll probably give in and order from Bookeen before their shipping dates shift any later.

I believe Derek already said they wouldn't have them for Christmas. So you'll probably need to go direct.

JSWolf
12-02-2007, 09:13 PM
The Sony Readers allow up to 6 devices to be registered via their DRM scheme. 1 has to be a computer and the others can be a combination of computer or reader.

dcalder
12-02-2007, 11:00 PM
I believe Derek already said they wouldn't have them for Christmas. So you'll probably need to go direct.

Ah. That must've been posted in another thread that I missed seeing; the last update that I saw on this one indicated that the store would be up and running at the end of this past week. (No specific mention of shipping dates was present.) Phooey. :p NAEB's got the nicer/more useful bundle for the money, compared to Bookeen. :disappoin Ah well. Guess I'll have to decide whether the date of arrival or the value for the money is the more critical issue for me...

delphidb96
12-03-2007, 04:24 PM
When will the readers actually be available for purchase, shipment, and delivery? I've been holding off on ordering a Cybook in order to get one of these but I'd really like to get it before Christmas. If the NAEB readers aren't ready very soon, I'll probably give in and order from Bookeen before their shipping dates shift any later.

Just a short, short update. See, part of the issue involved was getting a merchant checking account that we could tie into our website. We had planned to do so through HSBC, but we found out, late in November, that we couldn't do through them because we were attempting to open the account at their New York offices while our corporation was incorporated in Nevada. So we decided to go with another bank. The bank we chose had offices in California, quite literally in my home town, so that's the one we chose. *BUT* California has recently *changed* the identification requirements for LLCs and we needed to get a Certificate in Good Standing with California. I took all our paperwork down to the Secretary of State office in Sacramento (I live in one of it's suburbs.) last week. They took it all, and our money, and later notified me that the registration was 'rejected' because we *DIDN'T* have a CiGS from Nevada. On Friday, I got a CiGS sent out from Nevada and we're just waiting for it to arrive. I'll then trot on down to the SecState's office and re-file. At that point in time, probably tomorrow or Wednesday, we'll have every 'T' crossed and 'I' dotted so we'll be able to finally complete the process of opening our merchant account!

It ain't easy getting everything organized when some corporate officers live in Washington, some in New York and one in California! Please bear with us.

Derek

dcalder
12-05-2007, 07:32 AM
At that point in time, probably tomorrow or Wednesday, we'll have every 'T' crossed and 'I' dotted so we'll be able to finally complete the process of opening our merchant account!


Any further news regarding when ordering will actually be possible? And when shipping will actually start? :pray:

If ordering will open up by the end of the week and shipping start sometime between then and when Bookeen's next lot of readers is due to ship, then I'll probably keep waiting for NAEB. Otherwise... well... waiting with a firm date in mind is one thing; waiting for a nebulous "soon" is a lot more difficult. Especially when I keep eyeing up the OLPC and thinking that the G1G1 program would be a lot more in the spirit of holiday giving than buying a Cybook and benefiting no one but myself...

Though, if I stick with a Cybook and NAEB runs into more delays, I'm rather less than certain that simply ordering a Cybook directly from Bookeen is a good idea, considering that Bookeen's site is down - again. Especially since there's still nothing on their blog to explain the first outage, let alone the second one. :p

mcdaniel
12-08-2007, 01:07 PM
Just a short, short update. See, part of the issue involved was getting a merchant checking account that we could tie into our website. ....

It ain't easy getting everything organized when some corporate officers live in Washington, some in New York and one in California! Please bear with us.

Derek

December 8, 2007 (10:07 AM PST): Derek, we appreciate that a small business often encounters problems in setting up bank relationships, etc. But, please remember that a small business depends upon good customer relationships to succeed. We have been waiting for many months to give NAEB our Cybook Gen 3 purchase orders. I, and I suspect many others, are beginning to wonder if NAEB will ever be ready to accept firm orders. Status reports help us remain committed. Please post a new update ASAP.

Robert

HarryT
12-08-2007, 01:24 PM
Just wondering Derek; couldn't all this stuff have been done in advance, so you were ready to go when the Gen3 was actually released?

delphidb96
12-08-2007, 04:11 PM
Just wondering Derek; couldn't all this stuff have been done in advance, so you were ready to go when the Gen3 was actually released?

Harry, (and Robert McDaniel...)

Yes, some of it *could* have been done in advance. And much of this *was* done in advance. However, when push came to shove with getting our merchant checking account set up with HSBC, we ran into a snag. The snag was - despite over a month of prep work with them - we weren't informed of the 'fatal flaw' (That's not until mid-November.) in which we could not apply for an account at their New York office because - and somehow this slipped past their eagle-eyed vigilance for several months - we were incorporated in Nevada, not New York where our CFO was located. Oops! So, quick hustle to re-structure for us to have me become our Treasurer/CTO (as I live in California). Oops again! I live in Citrus Heights, a suburb of Sacramento and HSBC doesn't have a single branch in our area! And they just felt hincky about me not living within 25 miles of their nearest branch. (It's more like 100 miles.)

Thus, scrambling around to find a *national* bank we can work with leads to Bank of America. Not a problem as there's a branch just 5 miles from my home. However, the department *I* must deal with is in San Francisco. And they're willing to (Nay! Eager!) help, but there are a few paperwork glitches (Let's face facts, dealing with the paperwork over the phone whilst FAXing isn't all that optimum.) and the people who're in charge of dealing with LLCs is new to the position... (Did I mention that state banking regs have changed? Yep. Just enough that all the paperwork we've already accumulated for BofA is not "quite" sufficient.) By this time it's December 3rd. (And yes, that means we missed a few days of form-filling due to the Thanksgiving holidays.)

Finally, I've discovered *ALL* the forms needed by me to file with the State of California for receiving a Certificate of Good Standing... I'm at the Secretary of State's office and... Did I mention that the SecState's website and the phone support person *failed* to mention I need a CoGS from Nevada??? Yep. You guessed it. I've got every form and all but that one! So that very day I went on line and ordered it from Nevada. And it's wending it's way here. *STILL* hasn't arrived!!! (Carson City, Nevada's like 200 miles from Citrus Heights, CA.) If I weren't disabled and living on a fixed income, I'd have *DRIVEN THERE* and picked it up!

I'm not an expert in what it takes to get registered as a valid LLC in either Nevada or California - but I'm rapidly approaching that level of knowledge. And as soon as that scrap of paper is in my hands I can complete the process of opening the merchant checking account.

Of course, were I a sole proprietor, not working under a DBA, I could have gotten away with *HALF* the paperwork - and we'd already be open for orders. Please bear with us.

BTW, even under the *BEST* of circumstances, were we to place our order tomorrow, the earliest we'd get the first half would be early/mid-January, with the rest following in a week or so. Thus we have been informed.

Derek

mcdaniel
12-08-2007, 08:45 PM
Harry, (and Robert McDaniel...)

Yes, some of it *could* have been done in advance. And much of this *was* done in advance. However, when push came to shove with getting our merchant checking account set up with HSBC, we ran into a snag. The snag was - despite over a month of prep work with them - we weren't informed of the 'fatal flaw' .... Did I mention that the SecState's website and the phone support person *failed* to mention I need a CoGS from Nevada??? Yep. You guessed it. I've got every form and all but that one! So that very day I went on line and ordered it from Nevada. And it's wending it's way here. *STILL* hasn't arrived!!! (Carson City, Nevada's like 200 miles from Citrus Heights, CA.) If I weren't disabled and living on a fixed income, I'd have *DRIVEN THERE* and picked it up!
....
BTW, even under the *BEST* of circumstances, were we to place our order tomorrow, the earliest we'd get the first half would be early/mid-January, with the rest following in a week or so. Thus we have been informed.

Derek

Many thanks Derek for the update information. I, for one, find it easier to put up with delays if I am kept regularly informed. Your earlier status report seemed to indicate that everything would be finished this past work week, so I was disappointed that no news was posted.

Robert

kleykenb
12-10-2007, 07:23 AM
... anybody tried to use Mobipocket Reader and Sony's Software (Connect?) with Wine (http://winehq.org/)?

Been using Wine under Linux sucessfully to even play games and as far as I know Wine should also work for Apples running OSX+ (it's Unix after all).

So maybe anybody can give it a shot.

I tried it but did not get very far and probably gave up to quickly but since the installer for MobiPocket is in .msi format and not .exe and Wine was not able to deal with that I stopped there.

kkingdon
12-10-2007, 08:40 AM
... anybody tried to use Mobipocket Reader and Sony's Software (Connect?) with Wine (http://winehq.org/)?

Been using Wine under Linux sucessfully to even play games and as far as I know Wine should also work for Apples running OSX+ (it's Unix after all).

So maybe anybody can give it a shot.

I had a partially successful result. I'm using a recent vintage of wine under Fedora Core 8. I've also previously found and run scripts that download and install Internet Explorer under wine, so that may have had some effect also. In any case, I was able to install the mobipocket desktop .msi file. The window layout is not perfect, and the title thumbnails don't display properly, but if I change the library layout to show the detailed title view, I was able to see all of the titles. If I select a title, I can read it OK -- the page navigation keys and mouse widgets work fine. I haven't tried more than the basic reading features, so I don't know if there are additional limitations.