First post for me, while I have been lurking the forums for quite a while, I never so far felt the need to post anything ;)

Now, however, I consider buying a Cybook Gen3. Its feature-set hits almost everything I am looking for in an eBook reader, yet there is one thing that has kept me from ordering :

How reasonable would be a search within a lexicon on the Cybook?

I am aware that there is no text search feature (hopefully this will one day be added, entering text could easily be done using what I call 'Nintendo' keyboard ... you know, the way you added yourself to the high-score list in computer games of yore).

Now, my idea was to add bookmarks for every letter within the lexicon, which would at least let me navigate to a letter quickly (of course adding even more bookmarks would further narrow down the search). Once I'd navigated to a bookmark, how fast would I be able to leaf to the entry I was looking for?

First post for me, while I have been lurking the forums for quite a while, I never so far felt the need to post anything ;)

Now, however, I consider buying a Cybook Gen3. Its feature-set hits almost everything I am looking for in an eBook reader, yet there is one thing that has kept me from ordering :

How reasonable would be a search within a lexicon on the Cybook?

I am aware that there is no text search feature (hopefully this will one day be added, entering text could easily be done using what I call 'Nintendo' keyboard ... you know, the way you added yourself to the high-score list in computer games of yore).

Now, my idea was to add bookmarks for every letter within the lexicon, which would at least let me navigate to a letter quickly (of course adding even more bookmarks would further narrow down the search). Once I'd navigated to a bookmark, how fast would I be able to leaf to the entry I was looking for?

If you've turned *OFF* the 'Flash-to-black-between-page-flips' feature, about a quarter second between page turns. Otherwise, a bit slower, call it 4/10s of a second.

Derek

If you've turned *OFF* the 'Flash-to-black-between-page-flips' feature, about a quarter second between page turns. Otherwise, a bit slower, call it 4/10s of a second.

Derek

Thanks for the answer Derek.

I fear using a lexicon is out of question then :( Well, I just hope they will add text search in the near future. Until then I rather wait.

Using a dictionary looking up a word in the text you are reading already works according to the demo video at Bookeen's web page. The question is if any other lookup methods are available?

Using a dictionary looking up a word in the text you are reading already works according to the demo video at Bookeen's web page. The question is if any other lookup methods are available?

I suspect you can also open the dictionary as a book and use the TOC branch to look up some words although I don't have one of these to check it out. Using a TOC or Index with a little browsing can be a good substitute for search.

Using a dictionary looking up a word in the text you are reading already works according to the demo video at Bookeen's web page. The question is if any other lookup methods are available?

Yes :) I am talking about lexica (not the dictionary). Being the infomaniac I am I always dreamt to be able to carry an encyclopedia with me whereever I go. However, looking up something in an electronic encyclopedia without the possibility to search makes the whole thing pretty pointless :(

I downloaded the mobipocket reader and the demo version of the Brockhaus Encyclopedia. The reader (as you most certainly know) has a search functionality. That's exactly how I would want it to be :)

Well, if I understand correctly they only recently added bookmarking to the firmware. That's giving me hope: Who knows, maybe text search is just around the bend. I rummaged Bookeen's web page to find any indication of planned features for future releases of the firmware, but unfortunately couldn't find anything.

I just bought the Concise Oxford English Dictionary so I will test how it works on the Cybook on Monday. But on my Palm I do not see a TOC that contains words.

I realized you can lookup word if you have a page of word and the word you are looking for is missing you just look up a word that you think contains the word you want in the description :)

Well, if I understand correctly they only recently added bookmarking to the firmware. That's giving me hope: Who knows, maybe text search is just around the bend. I rummaged Bookeen's web page to find any indication of planned features for future releases of the firmware, but unfortunately couldn't find anything.

I suppose we have to compile a wish list here so they have the relevant information collected in one place. I have wikipedia on my Palm so I understand your wish.

How can you do a text search without an input device? On the old Cybook this was possible with the stylus. (I have the wikepedia in prf format from beans on a 1g storage card and travel happily around with it. This will no longer be possible with the new cybook).
I am also doubtful about the efficacy of the look-up function for language dictionaries; the current dictionaries from mobipocket do usually not contain conjunctions and reflections but only the standard forms of the words which you are looking for. Since you have no stylus or other input device on the Gen3 you cannot do a manual search by trying out different endings or typing in similar words.
Peter

How can you do a text search without an input device? On the old Cybook this was possible with the stylus. (I have the wikepedia in prf format from beans on a 1g storage card and travel happily around with it. This will no longer be possible with the new cybook).
I am also doubtful about the efficacy of the look-up function for language dictionaries; the current dictionaries from mobipocket do usually not contain conjunctions and reflections but only the standard forms of the words which you are looking for. Since you have no stylus or other input device on the Gen3 you cannot do a manual search by trying out different endings or typing in similar words.
Peter

You have the buttons and it is not to hard to come up with schemes for input that will work. I have the 1G Wikipedia on my Palm so I really do not need encyclopedias on the Cybook but I really want to have a dictionary. And I think the problem you point out can be solved. You mark a word and you get a set of hits that you choose from. If you do not get a hit you erase letters from the end until you are happy with the set of word you got. And that should be easy to do with only buttons.

I just bought the Concise Oxford English Dictionary so I will test how it works on the Cybook on Monday. But on my Palm I do not see a TOC that contains words.

I realized you can lookup word if you have a page of word and the word you are looking for is missing you just look up a word that you think contains the word you want in the description :)

A question that has been asked before, but not answered yet is - can you use the Mobipocket dictionary to lookup a word when you are reading a non-Mobipocket ebook? If the dictionary lookup is restricted to Mobipocket ebooks only, then that kills a lot of the usefulness of a dictionary. I would appreciate it if you can test this and report back.

A question that has been asked before, but not answered yet is - can you use the Mobipocket dictionary to lookup a word when you are reading a non-Mobipocket ebook? If the dictionary lookup is restricted to Mobipocket ebooks only, then that kills a lot of the usefulness of a dictionary. I would appreciate it if you can test this and report back.


Testing... NOW!!!

Okay. I have an ebook format of a friend's manuscript - which I'd converted to PRC, a purchased Secure Mobi ebook (PRC) and another friend's manuscript which I'd (about a year ago) converted to PDB using eReader's Palm Studio. The Lookup function works on all three without any hesitation. I was using the Oxford Pocket Dictionary from Mobipocket ($18.99).

Hope this information helps.

Derek

Testing... NOW!!!

Okay. I have an ebook format of a friend's manuscript - which I'd converted to PRC, a purchased Secure Mobi ebook (PRC) and another friend's manuscript which I'd (about a year ago) converted to PDB using eReader's Palm Studio. The Lookup function works on all three without any hesitation. I was using the Oxford Pocket Dictionary from Mobipocket ($18.99).

Hope this information helps.

Derek

That does help some, thanks. Could you also test in the other supported formats (TXT, HTML, whatever else)? Your feedback it greatly appreciated. I love having word lookup when I am reading. Older texts and modern texts that are set in an earlier historical period frequently use words that the modern human reader is not familiar with.

This is one feature that MS got right with their reader software. It supports using several dictionaries at once. Of course, the drawback of MS Reader is it only supports the LIT format.

That does help some, thanks. Could you also test in the other supported formats (TXT, HTML, whatever else)? Your feedback it greatly appreciated. I love having word lookup when I am reading. Older texts and modern texts that are set in an earlier historical period frequently use words that the modern human reader is not familiar with.

This is one feature that MS got right with their reader software. It supports using several dictionaries at once. Of course, the drawback of MS Reader is it only supports the LIT format.

Worked for me with an HTML file and a TXT file. Couldn't test it with RTF because it won't open the RTF... And I haven't tried it with PDF.

Derek

Thanks, Derek. Very much appreciated. I would be surprised if it worked in PDF, although it would be nice. It sounds like the Bookeen folks did a nice job developing their integrated, multi-format software.

Thanks, Derek. Very much appreciated. I would be surprised if it worked in PDF, although it would be nice. It sounds like the Bookeen folks did a nice job developing their integrated, multi-format software.

I'm not sure whether or how the thesaurus would work, but the dictionary works okay for the formats I tested. I didn't bother testing PDF because, AFAICT PDFs are treated as graphic images of the pages.

Derek

jbenny

Mobipocket format dictionaries work fine for html files.

How can you do a text search without an input device? On the old Cybook this was possible with the stylus.

As I mentioned in my first post:

entering text could easily be done using what I call 'Nintendo' keyboard ... you know, the way you added yourself to the high-score list in computer games of yore

I guess some illustration might help here :) :

http://www.etoengineering.com/Pictures/nohandcom_customkeyboard.jpg

You simply have a cursor shaped like a frame that you can move around the alphabet with the navigation keys, to 'write' a letter hit whatever key you use to enter things.

As I mentioned in my first post:



I guess some illustration might help here :) :

http://www.etoengineering.com/Pictures/nohandcom_customkeyboard.jpg

You simply have a cursor shaped like a frame that you can move around the alphabet with the navigation keys, to 'write' a letter hit whatever key you use to enter things.

That's exactly the method used by the Cybook to enter the numbers for the Go To Page function. And it works quite well. I wouldn't want to use the alpha version to key in long strings of text, but for a word/phrase search function, it would probably work quite nicely.

Derek

Concerning the form of the words I did some tests. "humanity's" is not found. "published" gives a menu with "publish" and "publisher" to choose from. If you choose one of them and then press back you return to the menu so you can easily check the other alternatives. "writers" gave me the alternatives "writ[1]", "writ[2], "write", "writing" and "writer".

To get to lookup mode you have to press MENU, DOWN, DOWN, DOWN, DOWN, ENTER and you have to do it every time you want to look up a word.

I tested to do a file where you can enter words with four letters. It became a 7M mobipocket file (27M html) and it kind of worked but you had to linerarly choose each letter and it was not so fun to press a button 16 times to choose a "p" for example.

Concerning the form of the words I did some tests. "humanity's" is not found. "published" gives a menu with "publish" and "publisher" to choose from. If you choose one of them and then press back you return to the menu so you can easily check the other alternatives. "writers" gave me the alternatives "writ[1]", "writ[2], "write", "writing" and "writer".

Thank you for this information. I am still worried about the use of language dictionaries. Example: you are looking for a translation of the Italian word "nell'attesa" (in the wait); the mobidictionary gives you a list of words which all start with nel which of course is nonsense because the word which you are looking for is "attesa". With a stylus or pointer you take off the nell' knowing that this means "in the" and you are given the translation for attesa. Similar or worse situations arise with the endings of conjugated verbs and the attachment of pronomina at the end of Italian verbs.

Is there any way in the Gen3 to cut off a word either in the beginning or at the end by selecting only a part of it with the check box? If this were possible my problem would be solved.

I'm interested in buying a mobipocket dictionary, but not sure wich one would be the best for me. I'm dutch, doing my 1st year english teaching course ( just for secondary grade at the moment) After playing around with the different demo's I think I like the longman dict.contemporary english. It shows the phonetic transcription and I like the definitions. This will be used for reading novels and english,american newspaper articles.

Any opinion?

Having just received my Gen3 I tested the lexicon / dictionary capabilities with the following results:

One knew of course from the specs that there is no possibility to enter words directly. However, the big deception for me was that one cannot browse through a dictionary by using chunks of words because there is no index (i.e. the alphabetical order of words without explanation or translation). In fact, one receives the message: indexes of words are not supported in this version.
The implication of this lack of indexes is quite devastating both for (a) using a dictionary as a stand-alone device and (b) for the lookup function of the Gen3.

Concerning (a):
With an index, it would have been possible to stroll through the words of a particular letter by using the page turn and make a bookmark when a new letter starts. After that you would be able to start your search at a particular bookmark i.e. letter. Each page turn would advance you by some 25 words, that is the number you normally have for the indexes of mobipocket dictionaries. By reducing the font size it would be possible to increase this number, maybe quite significantly, I have not tried it. By contrast, in the current version of the Gen3, there are only 1 to 3 words per page and tabbing your way page by page through the whole volume or just one letter is virtually impossible.

Concerning (b):
When using the lookup function and the word you have selected is not in its standard form i.e. the infinitive for verbs and the singular masculine nominative for nouns or adjectives the Gen3 is not able to show you any result. If there were an index at least you would be offered a page with some 25 words (or more, see above) which start with the same letters and in 80 per cent of cases (depending on the language and your knowledge of the grammar) you would find the word you are looking for.
This said, depending on the quality of the dictionary, there are some non-standard forms for some words supported. However, this is very rare, although this may change in the future; for a discussion of these issues look here (http://http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=5630).

For me the big question thus is, why the indexes of the mobidictionaries are not supported in the Gen3, it would make a difference like night and day.

I am following this thread because I have some problem using a Mobipocket dictionary on the Iliad, while I am able to open and to use in the look up function a small dictionary (pons basis Worterbuch english deutsch) a bigger Duden Deutsches Universal worterbucH (29 MB) does not work, I am wondering if it is a matter of size or what, both technical assistances Mobipocket and Iliad I find hopeless

I suspect the answer as to why the index isn't supported is in the version number. 1.0. I suggest you forward your request to Bookeen so it can be on the rather long list of stuff they still need to do.

Dale

One knew of course from the specs that there is no possibility to enter words directly. However, the big deception for me was that one cannot browse through a dictionary by using chunks of words because there is no index (i.e. the alphabetical order of words without explanation or translation). In fact, one receives the message: indexes of words are not supported in this version.
The implication of this lack of indexes is quite devastating both for (a) using a dictionary as a stand-alone device and (b) for the lookup function of the Gen3.


I think you're being a little pessimistic in describing it as "devastating", at least for dictionaries in English. English is a language with relatively little inflection, hence a simple lookup works pretty well. Eg, with the sample dictionary supplied with the Gen3 (which only contains the letter "L"), a lookup of "living" and "lived" both found "live" as the correct dictionary entry.

I would imagine it would work a lot less well for a more heavily inflected language such as German.

I think you're being a little pessimistic in describing it as "devastating", at least for dictionaries in Ey nglish. English is a language with relatively little inflection, hence a simple lookup works pretty well. Eg, with the sample dictionary supplied with the Gen3 (which only contains the letter "L"), a lookup of "living" and "lived" both found "live" as the correct dictionary entry.

This is why I made the proviso that depending on the quality of the dictionary some non-standard words are supported. Nevertheless, even in the dictionary your refer to I didn't find an entry for the lookup of "limbs" and "laboriously". However there was an entry for "lurched" and "lower".

Maybe the word "devastating" is too strong in the abstract; but it holds for me. I like to read books in Italian which I have learned rather late in life; thus my vocabulary is pretty shaky and I have to use the dictionary constantly. The Italian language has at least as many inflections as the German. In addition it allows under certain circumstances to add pronouns at the end of a verb. For instance, you may come across a word like "daglielo", which means "give it to him". To arrive at this translation through a look-up is quite a job.
Therefore, willy-nilly, I have to go back to my old Cybook where I can fiddle around with the stylus.

Concerning (a):
With an index, it would have been possible to stroll through the words of a particular letter by using the page turn and make a bookmark when a new letter starts. After that you would be able to start your search at a particular bookmark i.e. letter. Each page turn would advance you by some 25 words, that is the number you normally have for the indexes of mobipocket dictionaries. By reducing the font size it would be possible to increase this number, maybe quite significantly, I have not tried it. By contrast, in the current version of the Gen3, there are only 1 to 3 words per page and tabbing your way page by page through the whole volume or just one letter is virtually impossible.


Is it not possible to make an html page with all the letters on with space between them and use this to lookup the start in the dictionary for a specific letter?

I tried to use this principle to enter word up to four letters and it worked but you selected a letter by selecting a link so you had to press a button 26 times to select a letter in the worst case.

Is it not possible to make an html page with all the letters on with space between them and use this to lookup the start in the dictionary for a specific letter?

I tried to use this principle to enter word up to four letters and it worked but you selected a letter by selecting a link so you had to press a button 26 times to select a letter in the worst case.

As I read the manual it seems to allow you to move in 4 directions so arranging your letters properly can cut way down on the traversal.

Dale

As I read the manual it seems to allow you to move in 4 directions so arranging your letters properly can cut way down on the traversal.

Dale

Most assuredly. I'd suggest a 5x6 grid. That would give space for the 26 alpha characters and four others for backing up, cancelling the search or indicating the search letters have been entered and to proceed. Similar as to the grid used to select numbers for the Go To Page function. Would work quite well.

Derek

What you want to select is a link to be able to jump to the next letter. And selecting links was only possible to do with two buttons which was a bit disappointing since I had hoped that a grid selection scheme would work.

I you only want to select one letter a grid will work.

If anybody want to test my four letter selection document it is available at:
http://www.ida.liu.se/~tompe/ebook/search.mobi

What you want to select is a link to be able to jump to the next letter. And selecting links was only possible to do with two buttons which was a bit disappointing since I had hoped that a grid selection scheme would work.

I you only want to select one letter a grid will work.

If anybody want to test my four letter selection document it is available at:
http://www.ida.liu.se/~tompe/ebook/search.mobi

Interesting and a huge file. I guess it would work but I think a different approach might work better. I would suggest taking a real dictionary and looking at the words at the top of a page that show the range of entries on that page. (Or perhaps 2 pages) I think one approach would be to put those words in a graphically arranged list and use them as entry points into a dictionary. Head the list with a table of first letters and in some cases maybe a second table with 2 letters for more popular letters. Use a smart approach instead of a brute force approach.

Dale

What you want to select is a link to be able to jump to the next letter. And selecting links was only possible to do with two buttons which was a bit disappointing since I had hoped that a grid selection scheme would work.

I you only want to select one letter a grid will work.

If anybody want to test my four letter selection document it is available at:
http://www.ida.liu.se/~tompe/ebook/search.mobi

I've downloaded, but not tried, your file. I'll look at it today. But entering multiple letter searches using a grid would work just fine. Just try jumping to a specified page with the Go To Page grid. You can enter multiple numeric characters - and I see no reason you can't treat alpha characters the same way.

Derek

Interesting and a huge file. I guess it would work but I think a different approach might work better. I would suggest taking a real dictionary and looking at the words at the top of a page that show the range of entries on that page. (Or perhaps 2 pages) I think one approach would be to put those words in a graphically arranged list and use them as entry points into a dictionary. Head the list with a table of first letters and in some cases maybe a second table with 2 letters for more popular letters. Use a smart approach instead of a brute force approach.


Yes, something like that might work OK. I just wanted to test if it was possible to make an HTML document to enter text. And it worked pretty well with FBReader where you can click on the links. The file for four letter is around 10M and the HTML file I used to generate the mobipocket file was 25M or so.

Just for the record: there is a multi-dictionary function which works quite well on the Gen3 - provided of course you have loaded several dictionaries. When I do a lookup on the Word "system", for instance, I get 3 entries: one from my German-Italian dictionary, one from my Duden dictionary of foreign words and a nice little article from wikipedea which I have loaded on the SD card.
It's a pity one can't use the wikipedea via a direct word search. (See the above discussion). My wish list thus remains:
1. support of word indexes in order to improve the search of inflected words in language dictionaries;
2. some kind of direct word search for the use of encyclopedias.

This is a great feature, how did you get wikipedia to act as a dictionary?! ::blink:

This is a great feature, how did you get wikipedia to act as a dictionary?! ::blink:

Once it is in prc format it is recognized by the Mobipocket reader and hence the Cybook as a dictionary. I downloaded my version some time ago from www.beam-ebooks.de/ At that time it was for free if you did not take the latest version. I don't know whether this still holds. I wanted to check but their server seems to be down to-night. It's without pictures and in German.

Two further points re the lookup function:

If you do a lookup and the mobi dictionary is not activated the machine reboots without telling you what's wrong. This is different from trying to open a non-activated book directly from the library where you are told to enter the PID number.

Having looked up a word in a dictionary and wanting to go back to the main text, you must not use the right-left button because this, of course, turns the pages within the dictionary. One tends to do this instinctively because the right-left button can be used to return from a context menu to the main text. It is preferable, therefore, to getting used to the left hand button, the second from the top, which always gets you back to the main text.

Having looked up a word in a dictionary and wanting to go back to the main text, you must not use the right-left button because this, of course, turns the pages within the dictionary. One tends to do this instinctively because the right-left button can be used to return from a context menu to the main text. It is preferable, therefore, to getting used to the left hand button, the second from the top, which always gets you back to the main text.

Please forget this; I was wrong. Going back from the context menu to the main text and going back from a dictionary to the main text require quite different manipulations:
to go back from the context menu to the main text you can either use the left-right command of the main button or the second button from the top on the left hand of the device;
to go back from the dictionary to the main text you can either open the context menu and click on the back command or you can use the third button from the top on the left hand of the device. However, if you had a multiple choice of words before opening the dictionary the first possibility i.e. using the context menu is not possible. You have to push the third button on the left twice in order to get back to the main text.