It's been a long time coming, but the Cybook Gen3 e-reader (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=136) is finally on sale; and immediately e-book fans started to wonder about Bookeen's dual pricing strategy (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15556) - dollar versus euro price. TeleRead talked with Michael Dehan of Bookeen who was able to supply us with at least some kind of answer (satisfactory or not, I leave that to you):

Concerning Euro-Dollar, don't forget VAT, taxes and shipment price. If we compare with standard practices in the Consumer Electronics industry, Apple proposes higher model prices in Euro than in US dollars on their Apple store, Sony does the same with the PS3, Archos (a French company) proposes the same model price in Euros and USD for their MPEG4 players.

Michael also explains how you can use the Cybook on an Apple Mac and how warranties in Europe differ from the US.

Jump over to TeleRead for the full article (http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=7427).

And thanks to MobileReader Barcey for the tip (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?p=110759#post110759)!

Well, if Bookeen doesn't change its price policy it is very simple:
I and a lot of Europeen people will not buy the Cybook Gen 3 e-reader!

It is, as I read in different threads, a personal choice to buy or not to buy the device (in other words to accept the price policy and that ridiculus argumentation of Bookeen).

I will wait a few weeks and if they don't change the stupid EUR = US Dollar price policy, I will order an iLiad. It is so simple like that...

I wish you all a beautifull day!

as far as I can see, there are no pro's for bookeen against the sony reader. The specs are equal. Guarantee? You still need need to do the shipping to get things repaired.

For the price, i'd rather get the sony reader. Even with import taxes, it will be cheaper.

VAT is 19.6% in France, so with a 1€=1.20$ rate this price would be fair,
once more even if it's true that we get fucked in europe by apple and sony
(apple applies a 1€=1$ policy, then add the french piracy tax which
depends on the size of the storage device) it's still not a good reason.

Michael is really childish : "don't blame me, they did it first!"

For the price, i'd rather get the sony reader. Even with import taxes, it will be cheaper.

Were do you live? If I do the math the price in dollars is the same as the price in Euro

When I buy in Europe I pay 350 + 15.50 transport. That makes 365.50 Euro

When I buy in the US I pay

Price $350 + customs (around 10%) $35 + Transport from the US to Europe 50$ makes $435. VAT 19.5% over the total gives a total of $ 520. Divide bij 1.41 gives you 364 Euro. And it will give you problems with warranty.

And even if I would live in a country were it would be a 25 Euro cheaper I wouldn't want the hassel.

as far as I can see, there are no pro's for bookeen against the sony reader. The specs are equal. Guarantee? You still need need to do the shipping to get things repaired.

For the price, i'd rather get the sony reader. Even with import taxes, it will be cheaper.

There are a lot of pros for the bookeen. The most important for me is that it supports more formats natively and it has dictionary lookup. Also the pdf support seems to be much better. And it weights less and is thinner.

Another pro might be that they are a relatively small company, thus better able to react to customers' (speak: our) wishes. ;)

I've been angry about this whole US - EU pricing madness for a while now...
If a US-produced device were more expensive here than it is in the Us then that would be OK, but since all the devices are actually produced somewhere in Asia these days there is just no reason why the pricing should be so unfair.

Even if you take into account that you have to pay approx. 20% import-VAT in Germany (please don't get me started on the unfairness of that tax...) it would still mean that we could get our stuff for 20% less in € than it costs in $ because the € to $ ratio is around 40% at the moment...
But that's corporate policy for you, and if a european company does it to it's customers then I'd simply not buy from them.

CommanderROR, ist not only 19% VAT, but an additional import tax. It depends on the goods though, but its probably something like 5 to 10% in germany for ereaders.

So it basically sucks. But there is no use complaining about it. We could move though ;) But who would want to live somewhere else than germany :D

I could imagine living somehwere outside germany, but not in the US...so it would not solve the problem for me...I guess I'll just stay where I am then ;)
I don't feel like moving right now anyway since I just had the whole rigmarole...

but its probably something like 5 to 10% in germany for ereaders.

I've checked and in France there is no import tax for ereaders (as long as it's not
considered as a PDA). Maybe it's the same in Germany ?

In South Africa we have to pay 14% V.A.T. but no duties at all on any technology items. It has made stuff cheaper but shipping to here is high.

When I bought my Sony Reader, I had to pay about 6% import duty, plus 17.5% VAT. To add insult to injury, they charge you VAT on the import duty :).

Dear Mr. Michael Dehan

I have tried to write reply to this thread several times.
Every time I tried to express my sentiments towards your so-called "standard practices" my reply quickly became unpublishable.

Let me translate your words into plain English:
"Other manufacturers are screwing their European customers so we can screw them too"

$1 is NOT equal to 1Euro
If I purchase Sony Reader with some accessories in USA for $350 and then add 20% Value Added Tax and then add "3year accidental handling damage Warranty" it still will not be 350Euro.

Please notice that 3year accidental handling damage "Warranty" from Sony is MUCH more than your standard European 2 year warranty. Please do not try that Male Bovine Excrement with “the principle of the conformity of the product with the contract”. Look what iRex promised with their Illiad and look at what they delivered. Yet I have yet to hear about their returning money because their "pdf reading capability" did not satisfy some customer. And do not let me started on battery life ....

Please notice that I do not include Shipping cost in my example. This is because American ebook devices and YOUR ebook devices are both manufactured on Taiwan (or a similar place. Definitely not in Europe or USA)

Kacir,

The fact that Bookeen have had a massive response to the release of the Gen3 shows that, from a business perspective, they've got the price right. As long as they continue to be able to sell every machine they can make, they have absolutely no incentive to change the pricing structure. Many companies set different prices in different parts of the world. They have an absolutely right to do so, just as you have a right to decide whether or not to buy from them.

Seems to me that they've got the price right, judging from the flood of initial orders.

Kacir,

Seems to me that they've got the price right, judging from the flood of initial orders.


For now...

Its right for those people who do not want to wait any longer to get on board with an e-ink device and so will pay any price. The first rush if you like.

Whether it continues to be the right price I guess depends on the price that Sony set when they launch in the UK and that Amazon set when/if the Kindle materialises (and assuming being Amazon that it will be available outside the US). Also their price differential is wide enough that buying the cybook from the States through a reseller (NAEB?? hint hint ;) ) could be an option too.

They have certainly managed to alienate some customers, me included, when they didn't need to.

For now...

Its right for those people who do not want to wait any longer to get on board with an e-ink device and so will pay any price. The first rush if you like.

I'm afraid I disagree. For many people who are buying it certainly won't be their first eInk device. It will be my third, for example.

Whether it continues to be the right price I guess depends on the price that Sony set when they launch in the UK and that Amazon set when/if the Kindle materialises (and assuming being Amazon that it will be available outside the US). Also their price differential is wide enough that buying the cybook from the States through a reseller (NAEB?? hint hint ;) ) could be an option too.

The market will determine whether or not the price is right in the longer term. As I've said before, though, I certainly don't think that anyone has the right to criticise Bookeen for their pricing policy - they have an absolute right to charge whatever they wish to whomever they wish, just as the customer hs a right to decide whether or not to buy at that price.

They have certainly managed to alienate some customers, me included, when they didn't need to.

I'm afraid that I honestly don't see WHY you feel alienated. You don't have to buy a Gen3 if you don't wish to; there are a number of alternate products available to you.

I might fell alienated if the lower the price with 100 Euro in a month or so...

I bought an Archos 604 WiFi in Sweden and the price I had to pay was a lot more than the price in the US. So I am used to it.

VAT is 19.6% in France, so with a 1€=1.20$ rate this price would be fair,
once more even if it's true that we get fucked in europe by apple and sony
(apple applies a 1€=1$ policy, then add the french piracy tax which
depends on the size of the storage device) it's still not a good reason.

Well, at least, Bookeen didn't add the "piracy tax" on top of its european price! ;)

It's already included in the 350 € we pay in France for the Cybook Gen3. And the eco-tax on electronic products is covered too.

Has anybody bought/ordered Gen3 from Bookeen recently.

I ordered in GBP - and with shipping expected to pay the amount that came through on my invoice.

Looking at my credit card statement, the amount is higher ? Any ideas what might be going on ?

I am wondering if they've charged me in Euros, and there has been a currency exchange payment.

Puzzled .... :blink:

Best thing to do is ask them! Perhaps there's been an error.

Have, just waiting for a reply - but just wondered what others' experience was .

Did your credit card bill show a conversion from Euros? I'm pretty sure that I was billed in Pounds directly, and that it was the correct amount (including shipping, of course).

Did your credit card bill show a conversion from Euros? I'm pretty sure that I was billed in Pounds directly, and that it was the correct amount (including shipping, of course).

The statement showed a GBP amount in the correct column , but with a Euro amount by the side - but no indication there was any conversion .
I'll have to be patient and await the reply . Thanks Harry .

11 Mar BOOKEN-ONLINE 75PARIS 13 FR 283.52

My transaction was charged in GBP

27 Feb GNI*GIGANEWS 512-225-5016 TX 29.99 USD @ 1.9249 15.58

That's an example of a transaction in foreign currency, my bank always states the actual amount and the exchange rate.

Now, if the cybook were produced in the US, the whole VAT story would make a BIT of sense, but my bet is that it is produced in either Europe or Asia.


VAT is 19.6% in France, so with a 1€=1.20$ rate this price would be fair,
That's why I put BIT in capitals: the current exchange rate is about 1,55 dollar for 1 euro. How the hell do you justify a 1 euro = 1 dollar practice with those rates?!

The least they could do is make up with it by giving decent after-sale service (still waiting for my new bookeen :()

I've noticed in the UK a lot of companies that do business in the US and UK charge the same. So if an item in the US is say $10 in the UK it would be £10.

We found that buying something at ToysRUs in the US and shipping the item to the UK was cheaper then buying it online in the
UK.

What really bothers me about the Cybook is the pricing. I don't think it is fair at all. In the US for the deluxe package we pay $450 not including shipping. If you translate that into UK pounds, it's about £226. So it might actually end up cheaper for someone in the UK to get someone in the US to purchase it and send it over. Bookeen has prices all over the place due to them not bothering to deal fairly with the exchange rate.

What really bothers me about the Cybook is the pricing. I don't think it is fair at all.

Companies aren't in business to be "fair"; they are in business to make money and, as such, set their prices to suit the local market.

They are free to set whatever price they wish in any given country. We, as customers, have the free choice about whether to buy from them or not. If you don't think the price is reasonable, don't buy the product.

Its really funny with the Pricing of the Cybook.

I live in Europe (home of Bookeen company), but it seems like I can save a lot of money if I buy the device overseas at NAEB.

In Europe I would pay 350 Euro + shipping ( 15 Euro )
and get only the reader
A Cover will cost an extra 40 Euro :(

At NAEB I would pay 375 Dollar ( = 243 Euro ) + oversea shipping ( could be 40 Dollar = 26 Euro )
and I get the reader
+ Cover
+ SD Card
+ charger
+ phones
:)

Even with VAD/tax/toll added it shouldn't be more than about 330 Euros in total.

Compare this to the Bookeen Price of 405 Euros including the extra cover but still missing SD, Charger and phones :smack:

Has anyone living in Europe bought the reader from NAEB ?

On the other hand, order from Bookeen and you'll get it (hopefully) in a week or so. NAEB's order times have been somewhat lengthy; hopefully things will "smooth out", but their ordering process could not be described as "trouble free" up to now.

On the other hand, order from Bookeen and you'll get it (hopefully) in a week or so. .....
And a bit !

Waiting time is roughly 3 weeks for them now! 12 business days on average before it's despatched.

Yes - I was aware of that time-scale when I ordered , so am not particularly worried , yet ; as long as they have enough stock - plus they will , presumably , be taking some with them to the Paris show ..............

I'm still waiting for a reaction from Bookeen to my request for clarification of why my invoice is different to the credit statement .
I've sent my e-mail to 4 addressees at Bookeen .
I find the lack of response annoying , but not surprising - it's a common feature with many firms these days - especially when they cheerfully invite customers to ask about their orders .
The excuse that the e-mail gets caught up in spam- filters is rather 'lame' , I applied by internet order , they have my e-mail address , so this should be factored into their system as recognised and perfectly valid .

Bookeen's staff have been tied up with the Paris Expo (see the blog) which finished yesterday. I'm sure they'll catch up with their e-mail now it's over.

Good point Harry , here's hoping you're correct , that is before the Easter break starts ....

Bookeen's staff have been tied up with the Paris Expo (see the blog) which finished yesterday. I'm sure they'll catch up with their e-mail now it's over.

So their support is not really working yet. An expo should not stop support.

So their support is not really working yet. An expo should not stop support.


One would have thought not !

Just to let Bookeen know that they lost a customer in Singapore and will continue to lose customer here. It also does not make sense to lump Rest of the World in the Euro pricing scheme. We have not need to pay European VAT as we have our own VAT(call GST here) to pay.

Just to let Bookeen know that they lost a customer in Singapore and will continue to lose customer here. It also does not make sense to lump Rest of the World in the Euro pricing scheme. We have not need to pay European VAT as we have our own VAT(call GST here) to pay.

What are you talking about? You won't be charged VAT if you live outside the EU.

Bookeen states prices for Singapore shipment is Euro 350 (not inclusive shipping). Does EU members pays additional VAT on top of this price? If yes, then I have misunderstood the tax part. My apologies if this is the case, but I could not verify this anywhere.

Bookeen states prices for Singapore shipment is Euro 350 (not inclusive shipping). Does EU members pays additional VAT on top of this price? If yes, then I have misunderstood the tax part. My apologies if this is the case, but I could not verify this anywhere.

We do not pay additional VAT on top of the price on their website. For UK subjects it's £245 - so we can't really directly compare that.

For Singapore it's 295 Euro, and for France it's 350 Euro. The price difference roughly equates to VAT.

Er, wait a minute! You were coming up with 350 Euro for the price. So either you haven't changed country.Or Bookeen have corrected an error. Oh, or it's a browser/cache problem.

Hi Halk, HarryT,

I was about the repeat my actions in the website to prove that it came out as EU350. However, for the first time, it does not. It shows up as EU295 (and yes, I did change country to Singapore the last time).

So, there it is. It seems like I owe you guys an apology (and everyone reading this forum) for still thinking that I may be paying EU taxes. However, I am glad I brought this up, as I can now recommend the Cybook again for those who prefer it's features.(and lives outside US or EU)

It's one of these mysterious things we'll never find out. Sometimes you can click on an item in a drop down list and it can select something else, due to the delay between releasing the mouse button, and the list disappearing. I've had it happen at work where we're using a terminal input into a windows system - i.e. there's a lag between doing something and the screen updating.

Or Bookeen could have a list of countries and have them flagged as VAT-Yes, VAT-No, Euro/Sterling/Dollar and corrected Singapore. It could be any number of things, so I wouldn't worry about it or go around apologising :P

For all we know a guy working for Bookeen could have read this thread and thought "Doh, I listed Singapore as a VAT country when it's not"

LOL... how true. But I am apologising for my original, somewhat, harsh statement.

Sadly, EU currency strength today makes it pretty expensive to buy Cybook. I did a rough estimate of the costs, and found out it cost more than SGD700+ vs SGD500+ to purchase a Sony Reader from US(both include shipping).

If you were to pay the US price for the deluxe package, you'd be paying about 624SGD. This is where the pricing goes wrong (IMHO).

It's one of these mysterious things we'll never find out. Sometimes you can click on an item in a drop down list and it can select something else, due to the delay between releasing the mouse button, and the list disappearing. I've had it happen at work where we're using a terminal input into a windows system - i.e. there's a lag between doing something and the screen updating.


It could be the mouse software too. I've got a consistent problem with my mouse. Occasionally, two or three times an hour, I'll click somewhere on my screen and the pointer will jump vertically, and THEN activate the click. Somehow the actual pointer gets disconnected from where the wheel puts it, and the click command resets it. I've had lots of strange things get selected, especially when I'm grabbing books to put on hold from our local library - the pointer jumps up and grabs a different book from the list. Unless I notice it, I end up with a strange book waiting for me.

It could be the mouse software too. I've got a consistent problem with my mouse. Occasionally, two or three times an hour, I'll click somewhere on my screen and the pointer will jump vertically, and THEN activate the click. Somehow the actual pointer gets disconnected from where the wheel puts it, and the click command resets it.

I have the same problem . Though often the cursor ' jumps ' without any help from me !

It could be the mouse software too. I've got a consistent problem with my mouse. Occasionally, two or three times an hour, I'll click somewhere on my screen and the pointer will jump vertically, and THEN activate the click. Somehow the actual pointer gets disconnected from where the wheel puts it, and the click command resets it. I've had lots of strange things get selected, especially when I'm grabbing books to put on hold from our local library - the pointer jumps up and grabs a different book from the list. Unless I notice it, I end up with a strange book waiting for me.

i've noticed this with my optical mouse... i think maybe some dust gets in the red eye sensor and reflects the pointer somewhere different. my pointer also sometimes will randomly jump to the other side of the screen, but this never happened before when i had a trackball. usually i can fix it by blowing on the sensor to remove any theoretical dust...

i've noticed this with my optical mouse... i think maybe some dust gets in the red eye sensor and reflects the pointer somewhere different. my pointer also sometimes will randomly jump to the other side of the screen, but this never happened before when i had a trackball. usually i can fix it by blowing on the sensor to remove any theoretical dust...
Does your mouse pad have any black on it? if so, the optical sesor might be skipping as you go over the black bits.

Does your mouse pad have any black on it? if so, the optical sesor might be skipping as you go over the black bits.

aha ! that's good to know. that could be the case now, as i had to start using a mousepad when i got my new desk (for some reason, it had a hard time following on this color, which is a medium to light wood color), and the one i had lying around has a black and white photo screened on it. however it happened on my old desk as well, with no mousepad at all, and that desk was a very light (almost white) wood color. so i still think dust refracting the angle of the laser (or whatever it is...) might be at least part of the problem. maybe i should find a new mousepad though, with no black in it.... :chinscratch:

I have the same problem . Though often the cursor ' jumps ' without any help from me !

That would be a USB mouse... It does that when the CPU is too busy or some other USB devices decides to get busy..

I still prefer PS/2 mouses, but laptops don't support PS/2

I have a laptop in which the mouse pointer v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y drifts to the left if you leave it alone. That's VERY annoying. I must try replacing the mouse; presumably that's where the problem lies. It's an optical mouse.

I have a laptop in which the mouse pointer v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y drifts to the left if you leave it alone. That's VERY annoying. I must try replacing the mouse; presumably that's where the problem lies. It's an optical mouse.

You should google on that because I seem to remember it is a common problem. I do not think it is the mouse. For Dell computers there are theories that it is the "stick pointer" that can cause the problem.

Thanks, I'll try doing that. It's a Sony laptop which has a "touch pad", but I'm using a USB Microsoft optical mouse with it. My Dell desktop machine, on which I'm using the same model of mouse, doesn't have the problem.

I had the same problem a few years ago with a dell laptop and the problem was the touchpad.

Were you able to fix it?

As far as I remember it was a known hardware issue with that model und I just disabled the touchpad (bios or Windows System manager), because I almost always use an external mouse anyway.

Soon afterwards I got a new IBM laptop, so I didn't bother to pay money for a repair of the old laptop.

Some of the older generations ThinkPads T20/T40 has this problem with the trackpoint (not touchpad). A software upgrade resolved this. I have no idea if this is due to hardware or software to start with.

LOL... how true. But I am apologising for my original, somewhat, harsh statement.

Sadly, EU currency strength today makes it pretty expensive to buy Cybook. I did a rough estimate of the costs, and found out it cost more than SGD700+ vs SGD500+ to purchase a Sony Reader from US(both include shipping).

I originally wanted to buy a Cybook when it came out, hence my coming to this forum. I live in Switzerland and we have a VAT of roughly 8% with no ebook reader import taxes that I know of.

At that time, 1$ was 1.1CHF. The Cybook costs 490CHF with 65CHF shipping from France to Switzerland... In dollars that would be 410$ w/o VAT or shipping. With the current exchange rate, that would be more than 450$ w/o VAT or shipping. The first price is 14%, the second is 28% above US prices. The price seemed to be a mean of the EUR and $ prices.

Needless to say, Bookeen did not reply to email.

I have a laptop in which the mouse pointer v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y drifts to the left if you leave it alone. That's VERY annoying. I must try replacing the mouse; presumably that's where the problem lies. It's an optical mouse.
Does this laptop have one of those built-in touch pad type mice? If so, that is where the problem lies. When they become defective, they do sometimes drift. And that only gets worse. The way to fix it is to take apart the laptop and either remove the attached cable or cut the cable and then the touchpad will no longer function and thus the drift will stop.

Does this laptop have one of those built-in touch pad type mice? If so, that is where the problem lies. When they become defective, they do sometimes drift. And that only gets worse. The way to fix it is to take apart the laptop and either remove the attached cable or cut the cable and then the touchpad will no longer function and thus the drift will stop.

Surely it would be better to disable the touchpad in device manager (assuming it's Windows)

It does have a touchpad, yes. I'll try disabling it in Windows device manager and see if that sorts it. Thanks for the suggestion!