Sony is expected to launch its e-book reader in the UK at the 2008 London Book Fair, fuelling speculation that Amazon will try and pip it to the post by rush-releasing its own rival device, the "Kindle".

According to publisher sources, Sony is in talks with Waterstone's to sell the device.

Sony would not confirm its plans for entering the UK, but publishers point to a launch next April and are already getting excited about the potential of a new e-reader launch to stimulate e-book sales.

from:
http://www.thebookseller.com/news/46232-sony-plans-uk-e-reader-launch.html

:yahoo:That's glorious, an out of continent distribution, finally!:yahoo:

I'll second that! :happydance:

Yesssssssss!!

2008? I want it NOW dammit!

Not to be a wet blanket or anything, but I did note this bit (emphasis added): Tech website Engadget is suggesting that Amazon will launch its Kindle device just after Frankfurt on 15th October—and has reported that it is already selling Kindle versions of books on its website.

That last bit is something of an overstatement, both of what Engadget actually reported (http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/03/kindle-edition-books-appear-on-amazon-reader-launch-imminent/), and the reality (for those late to the party: the kindle edition books were listed but then pulled when we noticed them and were never yet for sale in the first place) -- I hope that the rest of it isn't an ... overstatement of some similar rumor or inference, but it's not the best sign. :dunno:

Do you think they'll let us onto eConnect store then? Or do you reckon it will be only US and UK residents??

I hate that something fierce. I don't know how to get stuff onto my eReader!!!

Great news,:happydance:
I almost decided to go for Bookeen due to presence in Europe but this means that I'll have to wait and see. If Sony gives possibility to non-UK people to buy books, we have a clear winner.

Waiting, waiting, waiting...:pray:

/John

Hi John,

What makes you say that the Sony would be a clear winner over the CyBook? There are hugely more books available in MobiPocket format than in Sony format, and no problems with buying them from any country in the world.

Well, I tried to take into account technical side, Sony is good at making HW and support is slow but it will eventually solve the problems. You're right that mobipocket is widely spread but I have a number of txt/rtf myself so that's not crucial for me. As somebody mentioned in some other thread, I'm waiting for this since I saw Star Trek as 9 year old and managed to build my SF library in txt/rtf in hope that some day will come to convert library to whatever format it takes. So this is probably correct in my case but not necessarily for others.

I still have one mp3 player from Sony which has served me many years. Software is still horrible, conversion awful and so on. But HW never let me down. This is little bit idea behind the reader as well: I don't expect that reader sw or format support will be as good as we wanted for couple of years to come but hopefully acceptable.

Secondly I have some weird idea/hope that Sony will find other distribution partners, connect shop is incapable of giving the right upswing in book sales.

You're right - the Sony Reader is very well built; I've been using mine since last December. I do prefer the MobiPocket format over Sony's LRF format, however, simply because it's supported by so many more devices and retailers. Obviously, though, if using TXT/RTF is your main goal then that's not an issue!

Secondly I have some weird idea/hope that Sony will find other distribution partners, connect shop is incapable of giving the right upswing in book sales.They've announced a partnership with Borders for that, there's no telling how that will fall out on national boundaries, though. :shrug:

You're right - the Sony Reader is very well built; I've been using mine since last December. I do prefer the MobiPocket format over Sony's LRF format, however, simply because it's supported by so many more devices and retailers. Obviously, though, if using TXT/RTF is your main goal then that's not an issue! Would it be feasible, software wise, for Sony to port Mobipocket to their readers?

I very much hope that Sony will not compute the price the way Booken does.

$300 is not equal 300Eur

I very much hope that Sony will not compute the price the way Bookeen does.

$300 is not equal 300Eur

Nope

$300 = ₤300 :grin2:

I very much hope that Sony will not compute the price the way Booken does.

$300 is not equal 300Eur
Unfortunately that's how a lot of companies do it. Toys R Us do it that way. If it's 25 dollars in the US it's 25 pounds in the UK.

In my experience price will always be at a premium to the $US price.

df

Hi John,

What makes you say that the Sony would be a clear winner over the CyBook? There are hugely more books available in MobiPocket format than in Sony format, and no problems with buying them from any country in the world.

I also think the CyBook looks better since it supports more formats natively, there is a possibility for a SDK and it weight 100g less.

Would it be feasible, software wise, for Sony to port Mobipocket to their readers?

Software wise, it's 100% possible. The real problem here is business wise...

Would it be feasible, software wise, for Sony to port Mobipocket to their readers?Based on the success of porting the mobi reader to the iLiad and to Cybook, I'd think it was technically feasible.

During the recent conference call, the Sony rep commented that they were willing to entertain such a move, but that others might not be willing to go along with it -- I took that to mean that the folks who control the mobi reader software may not want their reader on Sony's hardware. Hadrian has apparently commented elsewhere (on TeleRead, I believe it was) that Mobi/Amazon doesn't want its reader app on any device that also has other reader apps on it -- they want mobi only devices rather than mobi & anything else devices.

Ah, there's Hadrien now -- any elaboration on Mobi's attitude that you can offer? Or am I mis-attributing here? :chinscratch:

Ah, there's Hadrien now -- any elaboration on Mobi's attitude that you can offer? Or am I mis-attributing here? :chinscratch:

Yep I said that's it common business behavior to sign such a deal. I don't think it's Mobi's attitude only: the same rules would likely apply for DRMed PDF files for example (the iRiver reader ?).

Sure, I didn't mean to imply that it was only Mobi! :unafraid:

Based on the success of porting the mobi reader to the iLiad and to Cybook, I'd think it was technically feasible.

During the recent conference call, the Sony rep commented that they were willing to entertain such a move, but that others might not be willing to go along with it -- I took that to mean that the folks who control the mobi reader software may not want their reader on Sony's hardware. Hadrian has apparently commented elsewhere (on TeleRead, I believe it was) that Mobi/Amazon doesn't want its reader app on any device that also has other reader apps on it -- they want mobi only devices rather than mobi & anything else devices.
Then when if mobi reader coming OFF the iLiad since it also has FBReader?

During the recent conference call, the Sony rep commented that they were willing to entertain such a move, but that others might not be willing to go along with it -- I took that to mean that the folks who control the mobi reader software may not want their reader on Sony's hardware. Hadrian has apparently commented elsewhere (on TeleRead, I believe it was) that Mobi/Amazon doesn't want its reader app on any device that also has other reader apps on it -- they want mobi only devices rather than mobi & anything else devices.


That's strange, the interest of Amazon should be to make their DRM format a standard.

That said, I won't be surprise if the kindle comes with a new DRM format, inspired from mobi but not compatible. This speculation is purely based on the fact that companies often end-up taking the worst decision possible.

:smash:

Sony is expected to launch its e-book reader in the UK at the 2008 London Book Fair, fuelling speculation that Amazon will try and pip it to the post by rush-releasing its own rival device, the "Kindle".


But there is no Kindle in the UK and no rumours supporting it will be available over here.

Then when if mobi reader coming OFF the iLiad since it also has FBReader?

But not built-in, and since it won't read any DRM-enhanced formats except Mobi, it's no threat to Mobi's commercial sales.

Then when if mobi reader coming OFF the iLiad since it also has FBReader?Did iRex put that on the iLiad? :headscratch: I was thinking that it was done by the ... creative members of the user community, but I could easily be mistaken. :nice:

But there is no Kindle in the UK and no rumours supporting it will be available over here.What about the rumors (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14520) around MobileRead? Mostly stemming from the discovery of "Kindle Format" content on Amazon.co.uk, I mean. :pleased:

Did iRex put that on the iLiad? :headscratch: I was thinking that it was done by the ... creative members of the user community, but I could easily be mistaken. :nice:


You are indeed correct :)

Well, in that case, I don't think FBReader much counts (for this particular point only — I'm not commenting on FBReader itself). :grin:

Hmmmm. London Book Fair's still six months away (mid-April '08); could be a critical period for others (Cybook, Amazon - maybe even Apple's "iPad"??) to get their acts together.

Or do you think it's just a 'spoiler' from Sony to knock back anyone thinking of a Cybook for Christmas?

Whatever, interesting times ;)

Once factor that's going to be a big deal is price. A lot of people a grumbling over the EU price for the Cybook and it's not yet released.

Once factor that's going to be a big deal is price. A lot of people a grumbling over the EU price for the Cybook and it's not yet released.

Forgive me if I'm wrong Jon but in Europe taxes are set in the price. When you factor in US taxes doesn't it amount to about the same? Here in Canada it's 15.025% plus 2.6% for foreign electronics, that comes to roughly $410.00CAD; Canadian dollar is at parity with US these days. What would the total price come up to in the States, like your State for example?

If the price here in Massachusetts is $350 and I get it from a vendor in Massachusetts then we get charged %5 sales take for a cost of $367.50. But, if I was to rder one online from a vendor who does not have a presence in Massachusetts, then I don't have to pay sales tax. Just shipping. But a lot of vendors don't charge shipping if I spend enough so maybe just $350 would be the cost. Worst case would be adding shipping which would cost less then sales tax.

Do you think they'll let us onto eConnect store then? Or do you reckon it will be only US and UK residents??

I hate that something fierce. I don't know how to get stuff onto my eReader!!!

Send me a PM if you want, we can arrange a paypal exchange and I'll give you a giftcode you can redeem at the Connect store to buy books.

If the price here in Massachusetts is $350 and I get it from a vendor in Massachusetts then we get charged %5 sales take for a cost of $367.50. But, if I was to rder one online from a vendor who does not have a presence in Massachusetts, then I don't have to pay sales tax. Just shipping. But a lot of vendors don't charge shipping if I spend enough so maybe just $350 would be the cost. Worst case would be adding shipping which would cost less then sales tax.

On that note, we in the US just dodged a bullet: Congress has postponed (again) a resolution to force all states to charge sales taxes for all online sales, not just the state from which you are ordering (if the store is in the same state as you). It will probably come up again, but most likely sometime after the elections are over.

It's a good thing too!

sony, a company with an actual machine for sale, makes an announcement
_6_months_in_advance_ when that machine will be available in a new place.

yet somehow, people here expect amazon will drop a machine _this_month_
here in the u.s., yet amazon hasn't issued _one_peep_ to the press about it?

i don't know where you guys get your drugs, but i sure _wish_ i did...

-bowerbird

sony, a company with an actual machine for sale, makes an announcement
_6_months_in_advance_ when that machine will be available in a new place.

yet somehow, people here expect amazon will drop a machine _this_month_
here in the u.s., yet amazon hasn't issued _one_peep_ to the press about it?

i don't know where you guys get your drugs, but i sure _wish_ i did...

-bowerbird

Sony didn't announce. It was leaked.

But you are correct in that they leaked it on purpose.

If the price here in Massachusetts is $350 and I get it from a vendor in Massachusetts then we get charged %5 sales take for a cost of $367.50. But, if I was to rder one online from a vendor who does not have a presence in Massachusetts, then I don't have to pay sales tax. Just shipping. But a lot of vendors don't charge shipping if I spend enough so maybe just $350 would be the cost. Worst case would be adding shipping which would cost less then sales tax.

But, if my understanding of US tax system is correct (which it may not be!), wouldn't you have to pay the equivalent of sales tax as "use tax", anyway?

But, if my understanding of US tax system is correct (which it may not be!), wouldn't you have to pay the equivalent of sales tax as "use tax", anyway?

That's true but nobody does it and most people do not know that it's required, though some states started to put a special line on the tax-form to ask specifically about that. Since it cannot be enforced (as opposed to RIAA, the state politicians need to be reelected after all, so they cannot target 100 people out of millions at random :)), the "remedy" is to pass a "uniformization" rule that would impose on the vendor the requirement to collect the tax irrespective of location, the way physical retailers do it.


Until now, the big online only retailers that do not charge tax so benefit immensely (Ebay, Amazon) fought successfully the uniformization rule, while Wal Mart, Target, B&N and others that have nexus everywhere started fighting hard for the tax to "level the playing field"

That's true but nobody does it and most people do not know that it's required, though some states started to put a special line on the tax-form to ask specifically about that. Since it cannot be enforced (as opposed to RIAA, the state politicians need to be reelected after all, so they cannot target 100 people out of millions at random :)), the "remedy" is to pass a "uniformization" rule that would impose on the vendor the requirement to collect the tax irrespective of location, the way physical retailers do it.


Until now, the big online only retailers that do not charge tax so benefit immensely (Ebay, Amazon) fought successfully the uniformization rule, while Wal Mart, Target, B&N and others that have nexus everywhere started fighting hard for the tax to "level the playing field"

I agree with you that paying sales tax regardless of where you buy from would be the sensible option, but I'm a bit puzzled about why use tax can't be enforced. Why can't the IRS (or whoever it is that's responsible for it) simply take a random sampling of sales records from retailers and check to see if the customer has declared the amount for use tax? That's the way that the authorities do VAT checks here.

Surely a massive amount of tax evasion is going on if what you say is true (and I'm certainly not doubting you!). I'm amazed that the government is willing to let that much revenue go uncollected!

It used to be the case that online sales didn't have to charge VAT here, but the EU closed that "loophole" some years ago. If a company is now registered any in the EU (as, for example, eBay and Amazon are), they have to charge customers VAT for any online transaction.

A resident of one State does not have to pay taxes of an other State.
In Canada a resident from a Province does not have to pay taxes of an other Province also but there is a base Federal tax of 6.5%.

Use tax is not paying the taxes of another state. It's being honest enough to pay the taxes of your own state for goods purchased outside it.

I agree with you that paying sales tax regardless of where you buy from would be the sensible option, but I'm a bit puzzled about why use tax can't be enforced. Why can't the IRS (or whoever it is that's responsible for it) simply take a random sampling of sales records from retailers and check to see if the customer has declared the amount for use tax? That's the way that the authorities do VAT checks here.

It's federalism at work. We have no national sales tax. Sales taxes are state taxes, and state governments only have the right to levy taxes on transactions that occur within their state. Further, the US constitution explicitly prohibits states from taxing or regulating interstate commerce. That is strictly the purview of the federal government.

A resident of one State does not have to pay taxes of an other State.

Actually, if you live in New Hampshire which has no sales tax and then go to Massachusetts, you would then have to pay Mass sales tax of 5% for anything you've purchased.

But, if you (in MA) purchase from a shop online that does not have a presence in MA then you don't have to pay sales tax. Just maybe shipping.

Actually, if you live in New Hampshire which has no sales tax and then go to Massachusetts, you would then have to pay Mass sales tax of 5% for anything you've purchased.

But, if you (in MA) purchase from a shop online that does not have a presence in MA then you don't have to pay sales tax. Just maybe shipping.
If you physically go out of State to the neighbors, I agree but if you order online, you're not charged.

But, Jon, doing a little research I see that Massachusetts has a 5% sale or use tax. If you buy goods out of state, or online, which are intended for use, storage, or consumption within Massachusetts, you are required to pay a 5% use tax on those goods. If the same goods are purchased in a U.S. state that does collect sales tax for such goods at time of purchase, then whatever taxes were paid by the purchaser to that state can be deducted (as a tax credit) from the 5% owed for subsequent use, storage or consumption in Massachusetts.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_tax

But, Jon, doing a little research I see that Massachusetts has a 5% sale or use tax. If you buy goods out of state, or online, which are intended for use, storage, or consumption within Massachusetts, you are required to pay a 5% use tax on those goods. If the same goods are purchased in a U.S. state that does collect sales tax for such goods at time of purchase, then whatever taxes were paid by the purchaser to that state can be deducted (as a tax credit) from the 5% owed for subsequent use, storage or consumption in Massachusetts.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_tax
That is indeed the way it is supposed to work. In practice, "use tax" is collected only on very large transactions -- those that are likely to make the news, for example. Call it "mass civil disobedience" if you like.

Xenophon

As I say, Xenophon, I'm just a bit surprised that the collection of what must a huge amount of money, nation-wide, isn't enforced. State governments must be losing billions in revenue collectively by not doing so.

As I say, Xenophon, I'm just a bit surprised that the collection of what must a huge amount of money, nation-wide, isn't enforced. State governments must be losing billions in revenue collectively by not doing so.

There is no way to enforce it and make sense; only when someone buy a million dollar painting to hang it in his NYC office, but declares he bought it for his home somewhere else to avoid paying the NY state high sales tax, then the law gets enforced. Also for car buying, you pay your county sales tax wherever you buy it... For small transactions it's just not worth it, and the only way to try would be the RIAA way, make an example of some random citizens out of milions; that would cost elections so ....

There are above 10000 different jurisdictions, and each taxes different things (in PA or NJ you do not pay tax on clothes, so you go buy there and come back to NY theoretically you should pay the NY tax but again...); even in NY when they declare a tax holiday on clothing, local stores have trouble adjusting; is it the full 8.5 tax rebated, or just the 4.25 state part and not the 4.25 NYC tax; does this apply to shoes?, to belts ?... the local tabloids have a field day going in stores and making trouble for the confused merchants by pointing that either they charged too much tax or too little; you get the idea...

It's merely another example of the fact that the U.S. tax system has fallen behind the times (long before the Internet came along), and needs revamping to better befit an international market (not to mention the support of its own people).

It's merely another example of the fact that the U.S. tax system has fallen behind the times (long before the Internet came along), and needs revamping to better befit an international market (not to mention the support of its own people).

Yes, we need a tax system like like GB, with a 19.4% VAT. Yeah, sure we do.

Sony didn't announce. It was leaked.

But you are correct in that they leaked it on purpose.You are mistaken on that, Nate. I can say with some certainty that the 505 leak was not deliberate on Sony's part. :no:

However, I suspect that bowerbird may have been referring to last year's 500 launch, which Sony did deliberately announce quite a bit in advance.

Yes, we need a tax system like like GB, with a 19.4% VAT. Yeah, sure we do.

17.5% actually.

There is no way to enforce it and make sense; only when someone buy a million dollar painting to hang it in his NYC office, but declares he bought it for his home somewhere else to avoid paying the NY state high sales tax, then the law gets enforced. ...
It is usually the seller who is investigated, not the buyer.

You are mistaken on that, Nate. I can say with some certainty that the 505 leak was not deliberate on Sony's part. :no:

However, I suspect that bowerbird may have been referring to last year's 500 launch, which Sony did deliberately announce quite a bit in advance.

I was referring to the UK launch, not the 505.

It is usually the seller who is investigated, not the buyer.

In the last case in the news of this type, the buyer and seller got socked big time, the buyer for fraud, the seller for conniving.

Unfortunately I have to listen every day to mostly inanities on CNBC from 9 to 4 (one reason that after hours I run from TV like from the plague), but sometimes they discuss interesting stuff, and online taxes and that art case are among the things I perk my ears to.

When I purchase something online that has no sales tax, I don't declare it. We have an occasionally sales tax free day. But that's usually for items up to a certain amount. If I was going to declare it, why would I not just buy it here instead? Well ok, price could be one issue. But nobody declares stuff like a Sony Reader. It would be silly. Also, we don't pay tax on food at the grocery store or clothes.

I was referring to the UK launch, not the 505.Now that, I don't know anything about — it could have been sanctioned on Sony's part, I guess, but didn't the actual info reportedly come from the publisher side?

But nobody declares stuff like a Sony Reader. It would be silly.

Suppose 300,000,000 people each don't bother to declare something like a Sony Reader - let's say it's something costing $333 for the sake of argument. That's a total of $100bn work of sales. 5% tax on that is $5bn.

That's a fair hunk of change to be "not worth it" :)

That's a fair hunk of change to be "not worth it" :)Well, if actually rooting them out and collecting that $5 Billion carried a cost of $5.1 Billion, then no, it wouldn't be worth it. :shrug:

The cost of enforcement is an important factor there.

Then again if the goverment knows for a fact that the highly endebted population will buy less if hindered buy taxes, is it not a good thing for the economy to let some types of sales 'slide by'? Looking to an other side, are interstate officials numerous enough to control every sale? Would it be possible to automate surveilance? Would it be legal?

Here is a new twist. I used to have a GF who lived in New Hampshire where there was no sales tax. If I bought something to be used both in Massachusetts and New Hampshire, what sort of tax should I pay? I mean, I am also using it where there is no sales tax as well as where there is sales tax. So what happens now?

It's really quite simple: The sales tax is supposed to be applied in the state in which the product is bought. Doesn't matter where you take it or use it. It's the easiest and most practical way to do it. If I was told to charge everyone a tax, it would be 5% across the board for everyone, regardless of where they were, even overseas.

It's essentially the same if I order from a catalog, or over the phone, with out-of-state companies (and that never made a lot of sense to me either, as you've pointed out, a lot of money is being passed up that way).

At any rate, I don't think it makes a difference in the long run. I don't know too many people who, if they really wanted to buy the Sony reader, would balk because it had an extra $15 added to it. Heck, people still buy cars and pay hundreds in taxes, but cars sell just fine. They just search for the lowest deal, and buy. If taxes are levied across the internet, it won't put a dent in commerce.

I have a psp .
I love it .

I have a psp .
I love it .

And...?

I'm very happy for him. I have an XBox 360 and that's very good, too :).

I'm still pleased with my PS2. :shrug:

I still like playing my Commodore 64.

Coleco!

I don't have one, but it was a great machine. :pleased:

Atari Pong

Ah, yes. The father of them all. :pray:

Ah, yes. The father of them all. :pray:
I had one. had Pong and a few versions of Breakout.

I used to like playing the original "Adventure" game on a DEC PDP 8 in my (long ago) student days. That was a REAL computer - 48kb (yes, kilobytes) of memory, and it happily supported 20 simultaneous users. Not of this needing 2GB of RAM for a single user. Bah, humbug!

...my Dad would take my older sister and I in to Harvard so we could play SpaceWars on the PDP-1. You sat in the machine room watching the graphics on the main console, and had a little four-button controller -- the only thing I was allowed to touch in the entire room. This would have been about 1965. The software was the original SpaceWars brought over from MIT (where it was written). I'm not sure if it was transported on paper tape or on one of the (then) super-hi-tech DecTapes.

The same software showed up as a video arcade game in the early 80s -- bugs and all. Some clever arcade game maker realized that the SpaceWar program was public domain, wrote (found?) a PDP-1 emulator for the chip in their arcade unit, and brought it out as a coin-operated arcade game. That was a real blast from the past!

Xenophon

I'm not sure if it was transported on paper tape or on one of the (then) super-hi-tech DecTapes.


Paper tape I would imagine - that was the standard even in the late 70s, when I was using the PDP-8. On that machine, to boot it you fed it a "boot loader" on paper tape. That loaded enough software to allow it to use its disk drives (we're talking 8" floppy disks here) from where it would load the operating system proper. When we did analysed the results of our physics experiments (the real reason the machine was there), we typed in the data on a teletype, the teletype punched a paper tape, and you fed the tape into the PDP's paper tape reader.