Using sun or star-shaped characters in ebooks

starrigger · 07-19-2011, 05:28 PM

I'm prepping a book in Word, for ultimate conversion to mobi and epub in Calibre. I'd sort of like to emulate the paper edition by using a sun- or star-shaped character at scenebreaks, instead of triple asterisks. (Not sure if these are extended ASCII or Unicode or what. Maybe one of each.) Can I do this, without breaking the final display in the ebook reader?

I've done a quick test in Calibre, and mobi and epub output looks fine in the Calibre viewer. But I'm wondering what will happen out in the field, on actual readers? Anyone know? Is this safe to do, or will I have annoyed readers wondering why the funny characters mucking up the display?

Thanks.

JSWolf · 07-19-2011, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starrigger

I'm prepping a book in Word, for ultimate conversion to mobi and epub in Calibre. I'd sort of like to emulate the paper edition by using a sun- or star-shaped character at scenebreaks, instead of triple asterisks. (Not sure if these are extended ASCII or Unicode or what. Maybe one of each.) Can I do this, without breaking the final display in the ebook reader?

I've done a quick test in Calibre, and mobi and epub output looks fine in the Calibre viewer. But I'm wondering what will happen out in the field, on actual readers? Anyone know? Is this safe to do, or will I have annoyed readers wondering why the funny characters mucking up the display?

Thanks.

Most readers use ADE. So if it looks fine on your 700, it will look fine on most readers. If you'd like to attach a sample, I can take a look at it on my 650 and tell you if it looks good.

☼ ☼ ☼

Looks good here in the forum. Should look good on a reader using ADE.

starrigger · 07-20-2011, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Most readers use ADE. So if it looks fine on your 700, it will look fine on most readers. If you'd like to attach a sample, I can take a look at it on my 650 and tell you if it looks good.

☼ ☼ ☼

Looks good here in the forum. Should look good on a reader using ADE.

Dang. I was fooled by the Calibre viewer and forgot to test in ADE. Unfortunately, in ADE, both marks display as question marks. That's no good.

In Kindle for PC, the sun mark displays as a square box, but the star displays as a star.

Is there any way to massage the encoding in Calibre to affect the way the marks will display?

Jellby · 07-20-2011, 04:01 AM

It depends on the font that the reading software ends up using.

HarryT · 07-20-2011, 04:28 AM

You could always do it with a graphic.

DSpider · 07-20-2011, 06:08 AM

Especially SVG. They scale really well for any zoom level.

The alternative would be to edit the font (FontStudio, TypeTool 3 or FontForge) and add any symbol you'd like to a free location within the font. Then you could paste it using the built-in Character Map or whatever.

starrigger · 07-20-2011, 04:13 PM

See, this is getting too complicated. I don't want to edit fonts, or insert a few hundred graphics into the file, or force a font choice onto someone's reader. If I can't do it reasonably easily in my Word master source doc, from which I'll generate any and all ebook formats, it's more trouble than it's worth. It's a minor esthetic detail to me.

I just thought, since the characters do exist and I can make them appear in Word, maybe there's a way to make them work smoothly and without fuss in the ebooks. If everyone used the Calibre viewer instead of their actual devices, I guess I could!

DSpider · 07-20-2011, 04:41 PM

Lol, you don't insert few hundred graphics, you insert only one, which you use on multiple occasions throughout the book. Unless we're talking specifics here... But even if you were to insert the same image a few hundred times (realistically, more like a dozen times or so, tops), the compression will make it seem like you added only one and maybe a few more bytes that reference the other 11.

If the symbols look ok in Word, you could press the print screen button (next to the F12 key), open up Paint or your favourite image editing program (like Photoshop, Gimp, etc), Edit -> Paste and crop just the symbols. No matter what font they choose, images display the same.

dwig · 07-20-2011, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starrigger

...
In Kindle for PC, the sun mark displays as a square box, but the star displays as a star.
...

You should use Kindle Previewer and not Kindle for PC for proofing purposes.

Also, don't use SVG in the source that is going to be used for conversion to Kindle/Mobi.

JSWolf · 07-20-2011, 06:11 PM

What font are you using in the Word Document? It's not going to be hard to do this. I can help.

starrigger · 07-20-2011, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

What font are you using in the Word Document? It's not going to be hard to do this. I can help.

In the Word doc? Times New Roman, as default font.

starrigger · 07-20-2011, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwig

You should use Kindle Previewer and not Kindle for PC for proofing purposes.

Also, don't use SVG in the source that is going to be used for conversion to Kindle/Mobi.

Well, given that some people are going to read in K4PC, or Kindle for iPad, or whatever--why shouldn't I preview in K4PC? Besides, if you're talking about the Kindle Previewer on the production page, you can't use that until you're halfway through the publishing process.

starrigger · 07-20-2011, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSpider

Lol, you don't insert few hundred graphics, you insert only one, which you use on multiple occasions throughout the book. Unless we're talking specifics here... But even if you were to insert the same image a few hundred times (realistically, more like a dozen times or so, tops), the compression will make it seem like you added only one and maybe a few more bytes that reference the other 11.

If the symbols look ok in Word, you could press the print screen button (next to the F12 key), open up Paint or your favourite image editing program (like Photoshop, Gimp, etc), Edit -> Paste and crop just the symbols. No matter what font they choose, the image will stay the same.

I get what you're saying. I know it's not going to save the same graphic a hundred times. But yes, there are probably over a hundred scenebreaks in the book, and I would have to place each one by hand. I can think of more productive things to do with my time.

Really, this falls under the "if it's easy, I'll give it a try" heading. Meaning, if I can do it with a simple global replace. (And if I can undo it with a simple command, if I don't like it.)

JSWolf · 07-21-2011, 01:24 AM

Set up the scene break so it can be searched/replaced. I'll help you embed a font in the ePub. For the Mobipocket, you may be out of luck as Mobipocket is an old obsolete format and you cannot embed a font.

starrigger · 07-21-2011, 02:38 AM

Thanks for the offer, but let me think about it, Jon. I want to keep this as simple as possible, and I also want whatever I do to survive conversions that users might later make in Calibre. This book (Sunborn, world edition) will be going to the overseas Kindle market first, while I continue to work on a way to sell the epub edition exclusively outside the U.S. (we discussed this in a different thread, and I haven't found a solution yet). I want the source file to be clean, with just one source file for all versions, if possible. (If corrections are needed later, I don't want to be updating multiple source files. Been there, done that.)

I'll think about it and let you know.

07-19-2011, 05:28 PM	#1
starrigger Jeffrey A. Carver Posts: 1,355 Karma: 1107383 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Massachusetts, USA Device: Lenovo Yoga Tab Plus, Droid phone, Nook HD+	Using sun or star-shaped characters in ebooks I'm prepping a book in Word, for ultimate conversion to mobi and epub in Calibre. I'd sort of like to emulate the paper edition by using a sun- or star-shaped character at scenebreaks, instead of triple asterisks. (Not sure if these are extended ASCII or Unicode or what. Maybe one of each.) Can I do this, without breaking the final display in the ebook reader? I've done a quick test in Calibre, and mobi and epub output looks fine in the Calibre viewer. But I'm wondering what will happen out in the field, on actual readers? Anyone know? Is this safe to do, or will I have annoyed readers wondering why the funny characters mucking up the display? Thanks.

07-20-2011, 04:41 PM	#8
DSpider Evangelist Posts: 450 Karma: 343115 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Romania Device: PW2 2014	Lol, you don't insert few hundred graphics, you insert only one, which you use on multiple occasions throughout the book. Unless we're talking specifics here... But even if you were to insert the same image a few hundred times (realistically, more like a dozen times or so, tops), the compression will make it seem like you added only one and maybe a few more bytes that reference the other 11. If the symbols look ok in Word, you could press the print screen button (next to the F12 key), open up Paint or your favourite image editing program (like Photoshop, Gimp, etc), Edit -> Paste and crop just the symbols. No matter what font they choose, images display the same. Last edited by DSpider; 09-08-2011 at 04:30 AM.

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07-20-2011, 04:01 AM	#4
Jellby frumious Bandersnatch Posts: 7,516 Karma: 18512745 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spaniard in Sweden Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura	It depends on the font that the reading software ends up using.

07-20-2011, 04:28 AM	#5
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	You could always do it with a graphic.

07-20-2011, 06:08 AM	#6
DSpider Evangelist Posts: 450 Karma: 343115 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Romania Device: PW2 2014	Especially SVG. They scale really well for any zoom level. The alternative would be to edit the font (FontStudio, TypeTool 3 or FontForge) and add any symbol you'd like to a free location within the font. Then you could paste it using the built-in Character Map or whatever.

07-20-2011, 04:13 PM	#7
starrigger Jeffrey A. Carver Posts: 1,355 Karma: 1107383 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Massachusetts, USA Device: Lenovo Yoga Tab Plus, Droid phone, Nook HD+	See, this is getting too complicated. I don't want to edit fonts, or insert a few hundred graphics into the file, or force a font choice onto someone's reader. If I can't do it reasonably easily in my Word master source doc, from which I'll generate any and all ebook formats, it's more trouble than it's worth. It's a minor esthetic detail to me. I just thought, since the characters do exist and I can make them appear in Word, maybe there's a way to make them work smoothly and without fuss in the ebooks. If everyone used the Calibre viewer instead of their actual devices, I guess I could!

07-20-2011, 06:11 PM	#10
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 74,310 Karma: 129333690 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	What font are you using in the Word Document? It's not going to be hard to do this. I can help.

07-21-2011, 01:24 AM	#14
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 74,310 Karma: 129333690 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Set up the scene break so it can be searched/replaced. I'll help you embed a font in the ePub. For the Mobipocket, you may be out of luck as Mobipocket is an old obsolete format and you cannot embed a font.

07-21-2011, 02:38 AM	#15
starrigger Jeffrey A. Carver Posts: 1,355 Karma: 1107383 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Massachusetts, USA Device: Lenovo Yoga Tab Plus, Droid phone, Nook HD+	Thanks for the offer, but let me think about it, Jon. I want to keep this as simple as possible, and I also want whatever I do to survive conversions that users might later make in Calibre. This book (Sunborn, world edition) will be going to the overseas Kindle market first, while I continue to work on a way to sell the epub edition exclusively outside the U.S. (we discussed this in a different thread, and I haven't found a solution yet). I want the source file to be clean, with just one source file for all versions, if possible. (If corrections are needed later, I don't want to be updating multiple source files. Been there, done that.) I'll think about it and let you know.

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