... writes Derek:

That means I can compare this against the Sony PRS-500 Portable Reader System and give everyone a run-down on the features of the Cybook Gen3. I'll be posting my opinions at Baen's Bar and at MobileRead as well as our own NAEB website so please stay tuned. In the mean time, please feel free to go to Bookeen's own website to see the features list and sample photos of it in action.

http://delphidb96.blogspot.com/2007/09/naeb-bookeen-ebook-reader.html

Thank you Tadw for posting a link to my blog page. I apologize to everyone for letting it languish for so long.

Derek

... writes Derek:



http://delphidb96.blogspot.com/2007/09/naeb-bookeen-ebook-reader.html

Derek,

Maybe you could hit upon this quickly during your writeup:

How glossy is the black finish? An overly glossy finish would turn me off slightly from a stylistic standpoint... I prefer more matted or flat finish. Is it so glossy that it would reflect lamplight or sunlight while trying to read?

What could make me buy a Cybook: highlighting capability; internal links in RTF; several HTML files linking from each other inside a given folder.

Lots of different formats have never been a problem with Bokeen in the past.
I am more interested in battery life, startup time and a suspend mode.
All the things promised and then not delivered by Irex.
For all other things I get a notebook or laptop.

Lots of different formats have never been a problem with Bokeen in the past.
I am more interested in battery life, startup time and a suspend mode.
All the things promised and then not delivered by Irex.
For all other things I get a notebook or laptop.

Sorry - why do you want a "suspend mode"?

The whole point about the Sony Reader, for example, is that it doesn't suspend - the operating system runs constantly, so it "turns on" instantly (because it's never actually turned off). Don't you think that's a lot better than a suspend mode?

Still, it's a kind of suspended mode since the screen turns off.

And sure, that's something we all want to know because bookeen knew
we wondered about it but never said anything...

Still, it's a kind of suspended mode since the screen turns off.

And sure, that's something we all want to know because bookeen knew
we wondered about it but never said anything...

I would say it works like a hold on button on mp3 player. Basically preventing you from accidently pressing any buttons when you don't want to. Otherwise the reader is up and running as usual.

We want a review, pleeeaaaaase! :D

Still, it's a kind of suspended mode since the screen turns off.

And sure, that's something we all want to know because bookeen knew
we wondered about it but never said anything...

No, it's completely different :).

The purpose of a suspend mode is to save battery power while providing a reasonably rapid start-up. The Sony Reader doesn't suspend - the operating system runs constantly, and the battery drains constantly, regardless of whether or not you use the machine.

Compare that with, say, the iLiad, where you can leave it switched off for a month, and the battery will (pretty much) retain its charge. Leave a Sony Reader for a month and you'll have a completely flat battery.

I'm not sure, but that doesn't sound quite right HarryT.

It'd be more accurate to say the Sony is nearly always in a suspend mode. It only fires up the processor and brings the ram out of low power refresh when you ask it to turn a page, but then it goes back into suspend. That's why it'll last a month on a single change. However the Sony doesn't have an off switch (or so it would seem) or suspend-to-disk. The iliad though, only has an off switch and no suspend modes (neither STR or STD), so it must reload the OS into ram each time it's started.

If the Sony didn't suspend-to-ram between page turns, it's battery life would be comparable to the Iliad (maybe 4-5 times longer, but still).

Since the Cybook is basically the same hardware as the Sony, I suspect it'll suspend-to-ram between page turns, but I doubt it will suspend-to-disk. An proper off button would be nice though.

I'm not sure, but that doesn't sound quite right HarryT.

It'd be more accurate to say the Sony is nearly always in a suspend mode. It only fires up the processor and brings the ram out of low power refresh when you ask it to turn a page, but then it goes back into suspend. That's why it'll last a month on a single change. However the Sony doesn't have an off switch (or so it would seem) or suspend-to-disk. The iliad though, only has an off switch and no suspend modes (neither STR or STD), so it must reload the OS into ram each time it's started.

If the Sony didn't suspend-to-ram between page turns, it's battery life would be comparable to the Iliad (maybe 4-5 times longer, but still).

Since the Cybook is basically the same hardware as the Sony, I suspect it'll suspend-to-ram between page turns, but I doubt it will suspend-to-disk. An proper off button would be nice though.
One of the hacks for the Sony does give it a proper off button. Hold in the joystick and it will turn off. My wife's reader has been "off" for about 2 weeks and it was turned on last night and the battery meter was still at the same 3 as it was when I turned it off.

I wish there was a way to turn off/suspend the buttons of the Sony without blanking the screen- I'd like to be able to open the cover of the Sony and see the last page I was reading. Unfortunately the Sony buttons get accidentally pressed way too easily with the cover closed which is why I always end up sliding the 'off' switch before I close it. I'm wondering if there will be a way to do this on the Cybook? Or if the Cybook is less prone to have the 'accidental button pushed with cover' problem?

Derek,

Maybe you could hit upon this quickly during your writeup:

How glossy is the black finish? An overly glossy finish would turn me off slightly from a stylistic standpoint... I prefer more matted or flat finish. Is it so glossy that it would reflect lamplight or sunlight while trying to read?

The engineering samples we got are not reflective of the final finish. It's supposed to be more of a matte finish for the production units.

The engineering samples we got are not reflective of the final finish. It's supposed to be more of a matte finish for the production units.I always appreciate a good pun, even if its unintentional.

Thanks for the info.

punintentional is the best kind. :grin:

I wish there was a way to turn off/suspend the buttons of the Sony without blanking the screen- I'd like to be able to open the cover of the Sony and see the last page I was reading. Unfortunately the Sony buttons get accidentally pressed way too easily with the cover closed which is why I always end up sliding the 'off' switch before I close it. I'm wondering if there will be a way to do this on the Cybook? Or if the Cybook is less prone to have the 'accidental button pushed with cover' problem?

This is probably doable. Ask one of the hackers.

This is probably doable. Ask one of the hackers.Perhaps unlock the buttons by entering a certain button sequence using the numbers. It could also act as a numberless PIN system to foil theives.

Wouldn't it be totally secure since USB access to the file system could repair the unit back to a usable state. But it foil 99% of thieves.

Perhaps unlock the buttons by entering a certain button sequence using the numbers. It could also act as a numberless PIN system to foil theives.
I was thinking something simpler- like still sliding the power switch to disable the buttons but not having it blank the screen when you do it. It could continue displaying the last screen with maybe the addition of "OFF" in the bottom right of the screen to remind why the buttons dont work.

I was thinking something simpler- like still sliding the power switch to disable the buttons but not having it blank the screen when you do it. It could continue displaying the last screen with maybe the addition of "OFF" in the bottom right of the screen to remind why the buttons dont work.A lot of devices use a 3-position switch, with one of them being "Hold". I like how my Garmin Nuvi GPS works. It has a switch that normally sits in the middle position. Push it to the left to toggle power state (it springs back to center position automatically). Then, if you move the switch to the right, it stays there and locks out all controls. This is the "Hold" position.

It would be nice to see eInk eBooks use such a switch. In the "hold" state, the unit would actually power down, but lock out the buttons.

It ARRIVED!!! :D :D :D

Yep. It arrived, and I've got an image of my Bookeen Cybook Gen3 side-by-side with my Sony PRS-500 on my blog page: Derek's Blog Page (http://delphidb96.blogspot.com/). Go check it out.

I'll have more later.

Derek

It ARRIVED!!! :D :D :D

Yep. It arrived, and I've got an image of my Bookeen Cybook Gen3 side-by-side with my Sony PRS-500 on my blog page: Derek's Blog Page (http://delphidb96.blogspot.com/). Go check it out.

I'll have more later.

Derek

Why drive people to another site instead of posting your pics here? :smash:

BTW The Cybook looks a bit brighter but the font's a lot larger in your example too. Perhaps you could show us a side-by-side of the same book at the same page to give us an idea of how it compares; i.e., font size, number of pages, contrast, etc. Thanks for the photo!

Azayzel,

UUUUuuuuuummmmmm.... Because I'm a nidiot?!? :smack:

Here's the photo.
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r84/photobyderek/P9156323Adj.jpg

Derek

Why drive people to another site instead of posting your pics here? :smash:

Any chance of seeing the same page in the same book with the same formatting?

Azayzel,

UUUUuuuuuummmmmm.... Because I'm a nidiot?!? :smack:

Derek

Wow, Derek, the difference is striking! I love the improved contrast ratio. I attached your photo in hi-res again (if you don't mind).

I just noticed something about the photo. Look at the light on the left of the Sony and then the right of the Cybook. The light is better on the Cybook side. I think the light is a bit in favor of the Cybook.

Do you think the lack of numbered buttons that many devices has is an annoyance? Or does the faster refresh make using up/down buttons to highlight and select things an acceptable method?

Also, I too would like to see the same text at a similar size side-by-side if you could manage it.

A few additional observations regarding the photo comparision:

1) The book on the Sony has terrible formatting. Was that purchased like that?
2) The Cybook has no battery indicator nor does it have a Page X of Y indicator to quickly gauge how far through a book one is.
3) The book title and page numbers are unnecessarily large on the Cybook, but that may just be because it is using a large font in this screenshot.

I too would like to see the same text at a similar size side-by-side if you could manage it.

And can you have a professional photographer do a shoot of both devices using the same firmware and dressed in the same garments too? I'd also like to see each one with various shadows cast across them so I can determine which one will be more photogenic with me when I go in for some portrait at Glamor Shots. :tipsy:

lol, just kidding. I'm sure Derek gets the idea, I just think it's funny that there are like three posts in a row requesting the same thing. Great minds definitely think alike! He's probably already thought of it too, just hadn't had time act on it yet (too busy arranging the professional photo shoot :p ). Thanks for posting the picture so quickly here, it does look nice! :grin2:

The cybook looks quite bad and seems to be very fragile... considering
the PRS-505 is 70$ less it is really expensive for a Chinese reader...

From what I have read dont eink based displays degrade slightly over time. The Sony unit is unlikely to be fresh out of the box like the Cybook unit.

I agree that the casing on the Cybook looks a bit cheap!

Considering I put "The Last Suppers" (Diane Mott Davidson) through Book Designer and "Deception Point" (the sample) *came* with the Cybook as well as taking note that I've not yet had a chance to move "The Last Suppers" over to a PRC file, sure. In about a day.

And to all the others - especially the 'lighting' quibblers, you know who you are - I took this as an on-the-fly snapshot. Give me time to get my lamps and light-tent set up and I'll get you better images. I'll also try to get the same text up. One of the big problems with doing so is I've got to find the right font - remember that the Cybook comes with several fonts embedded as well as allows the user to on-the-fly choose between *NINE* different font display sizes for each of the selected fonts. Take *THAT* Sony! :D

Oy! You'd think people would be grateful that I bothered to snap an image 10 minutes after receiving the damned box!:smack:

Derek

Any chance of seeing the same page in the same book with the same formatting?

Heb,

The *SONY* is exactly ONE MONTH OLD as of tomorrow!!! If that's 'slightly-degraded' then it will be worthless in a year!

IOW, no, the Sony display *WAS* that dull of contrast, *IS* that dull of contrast and probably *WILL BE* that dull of contrast compared to the Cybook. Further, the Sony's text does *not* appear as crisp to my eye.

However, the next generation PRS should - I would presume - have the same visplex display as the Cybook. So that shouldn't matter.

But enough already.

Let me have some time to review it. Also understand that I'm working with a 0.91 version of the application software and I'm still waiting for a few features to be implemented. These will be done over the next few weeks, if I understand correctly. I'll let you know more.

Derek

From what I have read dont eink based displays degrade slightly over time. The Sony unit is unlikely to be fresh out of the box like the Cybook unit.

I agree that the casing on the Cybook looks a bit cheap!

Where are you getting the $70 less figure? And "quite bad"??? That's a highly subjective statement without any discussion to back it up.

I'll admit that I'm not a big fan of glossy cases, and I'll even go so far as to say that having gotten used to Sony's way of handling navigation and all, the Cybook's controls and layout took about an hour to really get comfortable with. As for fragile... perhaps what you deem fragile arises because it's noticeably lighter than the PRS-500.

I've noticed already that it is easier, once I got used to using it, to use the 'compass' jogwheel on the lower right front to move between pages than those itty-bitty page-forward/page-backward buttons. And, no, I haven't yet hacked my Sony to do forward/backward using the jogwheel as I wanted a 'stock' Sony to compare my Cybook to.

Derek

The cybook looks quite bad and seems to be very fragile... considering
the PRS-505 is 70$ less it is really expensive for a Chinese reader...

Where are you getting the $70 less figure? And "quite bad"??? That's a highly subjective statement without any discussion to back it up.

The Sony PRS-500 (and 505) officially costs 280$ whereas the Gen3
costs 350$. Once more currently the Sony Reader comes with 100 ebooks
classic titles and is often discounted.

I said the cybook looks quite bad because well... seeing these two readers
side by side, the Gen3 looks like a cheap device compared to the Sony.

Once more since the PRS-505 is gonna be cheaper than the Gen3, I think
this will be the last device sold by bookeen...

It's really a shame they sell it at such a price, the chinese producer probably
asks around 150$ to Bookeen for each gen3.

I don't mind paying 350 bucks for a reader but I want something with a nice
design and good materials. The gen3 seems to be built with cheap plastics,
just like any other chinese crap.

Anyway, delphidb96 I really appreciate all the work you are doing for us
and don't take these complains for you.

By the way, there is something everybody wanna know and you can
easily check : does the gen3 have a suspended mode ?

Thx :D

I said the cybook looks quite bad because well... seeing these two readers
side by side, the Gen3 looks like a cheap device compared to the Sony.

Just a thought, guguy....could it be that the Gen3 looks cheap to you because it is rather minimalist in design? I agree that it doesn't seem to have a lot of bells and whistles to it, but if the technology is good....and to me the screen appears to have better contrast than the Sony...then that doesn't mean to me that it is cheap.

But after all, maybe cheapness, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder....personally, I'm more of a minimalist and I quite like the look of the Gen3.

I have several all plastic ipods and never felt they looked cheap. In fact when they replaced the white and black all plastic nano's with the annodized aluminum nanos in 5 colors i thought the originals plastic ones looked and felt better! That being said I really like the gun blued finish of the prs-500, though I think sony's scroll wheel looks cheap- the Bookeens (and the prs-505's) looks better. Plastic can look really good if it feels solid, doesnt have gaps or ridges where pieces fit together and has that silky feeling that Apple probably has a patent on.

I know I'm going to come off as a quibler, but I'd still like to know how white the screen is. When I compare my sony to your picture the screen on my Sony looks more like the color in the picture of the Bookeen- I call it newspaper white. I'm hoping this is just the light or color calibration of the camera.

and to me the screen appears to have better contrast than the Sony...

But the PRS-505 is gonna have a Vizplex screen too.

Anyway, I think you are right and I should wait a real review before saying
anything :)

Funny. I've been hearing 'official' pricing of $299 for the Sony PRS-505. Although I'll grant the $279 for the PRS-500 as that's what they're listing on sony's website.

So that means only $50, at worst, difference for the PRS-505. And, geez, like the 100 'classic' titles means anything. C'mon. Just run the entire Project Gutenberg titles through BD into Mobi format and you've got what, 10,000 titles! All classics. Plus, if you insist upon reading current works, Mobipocket has far more titles available - albeit DRM'd - than Sony does.

I think maybe you're calling 'cheap' what is just 'shiny' vs 'matte'. Now I don't really like the exposed SD card slot on the top edge - but then the covered MS/SD slot on the Sony was difficult and easy to jam a card in wrong.

Derek

The Sony PRS-500 (and 505) officially costs 280$ whereas the Gen3
costs 350$. Once more currently the Sony Reader comes with 100 ebooks
classic titles and is often discounted.

I said the cybook looks quite bad because well... seeing these two readers
side by side, the Gen3 looks like a cheap device compared to the Sony.

Once more since the PRS-505 is gonna be cheaper than the Gen3, I think
this will be the last device sold by bookeen...

It's really a shame they sell it at such a price, the chinese producer probably
asks around 150$ to Bookeen for each gen3.

I don't mind paying 350 bucks for a reader but I want something with a nice
design and good materials. The gen3 seems to be built with cheap plastics,
just like any other chinese crap.

Anyway, delphidb96 I really appreciate all the work you are doing for us
and don't take these complains for you.

But the PRS-505 is gonna have a Vizplex screen too.
This is true, but the elegant look of the 500 is completely missing in the 505. The right side is wider than the left, the bottom looks bigger and the missing page keys on the left all make it look visually unbalanced. I'd be a lot happier with it if they had just left all the buttons where they were and just replace the scroll wheel and make the page buttons larger. Visually the Cybook looks more appealing, however I worry that navigation around the menus won't be as fast and easy without the number keys. Need more details on the UI.

Are there four buttons on the left side of the cybook?

L.

This is true, but the elegant look of the 500 is completely missing in the 505.

Oh, but I like the look of 505 so much....

I like the fact that the Cybook doesn't have a status bar like the Sony does, that means more screen real estate -- but then again how do I know how much battery is left?

And, geez, like the 100 'classic' titles means anything. C'mon. Just run the entire Project Gutenberg titles through BD into Mobi format and you've got what, 10,000 titles!

Actually 22,620 as of today.

A few additional observations regarding the photo comparision:

1) The book on the Sony has terrible formatting. Was that purchased like that?
2) The Cybook has no battery indicator nor does it have a Page X of Y indicator to quickly gauge how far through a book one is.
3) The book title and page numbers are unnecessarily large on the Cybook, but that may just be because it is using a large font in this screenshot.

1. Nothing wrong withthe way the book is formatted. How would you have formatted it?
2. I wonder why there is no battery meter display.
3. The header is quite large as well.

I also notice that the Cybook also does not have hyphenation support.

Edge keys are as follows:
Left
1. Music
2. Application sensitive, usually menu
3. Back
4. Delete
Right (Volume level controls for audio)
1. Plus
2. Minus

Battery indicator appears when you are in the library. Is it worth a line of text to have it appear in the book?

You are correct, currently there is no progress meter for how far through you are in the book. If the book is so bad you want it to end, why are you reading it?:wink:

Battery indicator appears when you are in the library. Is it worth a line of text to have it appear in the book?

You are correct, currently there is no progress meter for how far through you are in the book. If the book is so bad you want it to end, why are you reading it?:wink:

Frankly speaking I didn't even bother to look for the features, I assumed there are default.

IMHO:
Is it worth a line of text to have it appear in the book?
Definitely!

You are correct, currently there is no progress meter for how far through you are in the book.
Unacceptable.

P.S. Maybe if I didn't have Sony Reader I would not have noticed such things but I find them extremely useful. Mind you, all of this is said by someone who doesn't use clock hack or page counter hack for sony reader b/c I find it very distracting to have a clock all the time in front of my eyes and I would hate to have too much info on this "status" bar.

A couple questions, why do you want to know the exact status of the battery at all time? Unless you were extremely low when you started reading, which is indicated in the library, you won't run out of a charge with one book.

Why do you need a progress meter for the book? Unless I am forcing myself through a book I never look to see how much is left.

Remember what NAEB is currently evaluating is prototype software. If we can present a good argument for adding a feature, there is a good change of getting it in.

Heheh, hot topic here! Derek, you know I was just making light of the whole "take professional pictures" thing, right? I know it takes time and energy to put together a review, not everyone is going to be happy, but it's better than them having no review at all.

In regards to the look of the CyBook, I think the minimalist approach is good. You don't need all the additional buttons all over the device and a ton of junk just cluttering the screen when you're reading an eBook, do you? The page location and battery meter, on the other hand, are essential to ensuring you know where you're at in the book and have piece of mind the book won't crap out on you while you're on a trip or reaching the end of a novel.

I kind of like the look of the CyBook, it would be nice to have a rocker-button on the side/edge of the device so you can flip pages without too much movement.

Thanks for taking time to enlighten all of us about the new gear! :thumbsup:

Edit: Penty, please read above for some very simple answers to the questions you posed. If you would have put yourself in the position of the people speculating/questioning the lack of the features, you wouldn't have had to ask them. Give it some thought. :chinscratch:

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...", this could not have been more true! Sony is the one which looks cheap, as if the engineers were not sure if they really needed all those buttons or not and added them just in case! Minimalism is beautiful! And the Cybook does it well!!!

I am sick of Sony`s way of controlling software, and most people are as well!
"On August 30, 2007 Sony announced that its online music store, Connect Music Services, would no longer support the ATRAC audio format."
To me this ment victory! and the only way to force sony to be more open is to boycott their products!
Sure the Sony Reader PRS-505 looks nice and would be an improvement, but why should one wait for the same thing which the Cybook is offering now?
The consumers have responsibilty to not let big corporations bully them around!

A couple questions,

1.why do you want to know the exact status of the battery at all time? Unless you were extremely low when you started reading, which is indicated in the library, you won't run out of a charge with one book.

2.Why do you need a progress meter for the book? Unless I am forcing myself through a book I never look to see how much is left.

Remember what NAEB is currently evaluating is prototype software. If we can present a good argument for adding a feature, there is a good change of getting it in.

1. I feel safe this way. I don't want to worry and go to a specific menu to check on my batter status when we speak about ebook reader. I tend to forget about things. I know for sure that if I don't have the battery status bar I will end up one day with a flat batter when I am outdoor. So, without the status bar I would have 1 more issue to worry about . Now I have 1 less :)

2. Honestly. I don't know how to answer to the question.
I am at loss here :)

Probably because when I started to read books at age...dunno 5? I always knew how many pages in total are in a particulat book and I like it? I like to know my whereabouts in a book. Whether it is 1/3 into a book or I am past 1/2, or there are only 10 pages left? I just cannot imagine to read a book differently.

Both of the features help to maintain the same feeling as I have when I read pbook. That's what I need from ebook reader.

1. I feel safe this way. I don't want to worry and go to a specific menu to check on my batter status when we speak aboutebook reader.

2. Honestly. I don't know how to answer to the question.
I am at loss here :)

Probably because when I started to read books at age...dunno 4? I always knew how many pages in total are in a particulat book and I like it? I like to know my whereabouts in a book. Whether it is 1/3 into a book or I am past 1/2, or there are only 10 pages left? I just cannot imagine to read a book differently.
I do have a bad habit of page counting to know how many pages I have left. I actually like the x of y display. It goes along with how I read dead tree books. As for the battery, it takes more battery to have to check the battery then it does to display the battery meter. It's at least 2 page flips to have to check the batter on the Gen3.

It goes along with how I read dead tree books.

:)

When I was editing my post Both of the features help to maintain the same feeling as I have when I read pbook. That's what I need from ebook reader. I didn't know about your post yet :)

Related to the Page X of Y display, this is more of a "it would be nice if" request than any kind of specific Cybook criticism...

It would be nice to see how many pages are left in the current chapter. With a real book, I frequently flip ahead to see how many pages are left in the current chapter. Just to see whether it is worthwhile to push through to the next chapter break, or get back to real life whether that means going to sleep or saying to the wife "I'll get to that in a second, I've just got a few pages left".

It would be nice to see how many pages are left in the current chapter. With a real book, I frequently flip ahead to see how many pages are left in the current chapter. Just to see whether it is worthwhile to push through to the next chapter break, or get back to real life whether that means going to sleep or saying to the wife "I'll get to that in a second, I've just got a few pages left".

My main reading time is in bed before I go to sleep. So, I do it every night :)
I go to TOC to see it.

Personally I've never have looked at the page count of a book while I'm reading it. At least not one I'm reading for pleasure but I can see where you are coming from.

It would be nice to see how many pages are left in the current chapter.

Interesting take on the subject, I never thought of it that way, but I have always done the same with a dead-tree PB, especially when I'm in bed and looking for an off-ramp before I hit the zzzz's.

This would be a nice feature, but maybe a little difficult to implement unless the books are authored properly and the hardware was configured to recompute the distance after a book is re-paginated; i.e., fonts size changed, book recompiled for different device, etc.

Cool thoughts! :cool:

FBReader has an (optional) progress bar (screenshot on a Sharp Zaurus (http://www.fbreader.org/zaurus-qtopia/screenshots/FullScreen.png)). It did not originally include a page count but now it does if you want, and this was so important to some readers that they implemented it themselves and contributed it back to the project. The downside of the progress bar is that it takes up screen real-estate, but I leave it on most of the time. The page count is usually per book, but the progress bar will have lines marking chapter boundaries if the e-book has a TOC.

The big problem with a page count is that it changes depending on what font size you pick. I did a quick experiment and and the larger sizes books become over 3000 pages long. A progress bar makes more sense.

A progress bar makes more sense.

Yes, I agree. The other versions of MobiPocket Reader use a progress bar and it works well. Its other benefit is that it need only use up a few pixels - not a full line of text.

JSWolf,

I would rather have a small battery display and either a page progress bar or a page/total pages indicator - but I think that could be done in a default smaller size. And yes, IMO, the header is too large. The header and page number footer use the same size and family as the body text - so they both shrink and grow - not a good thing if the person is using a really *LARGE* font size for the text section.

And I've noticed that at the smallest two font sizes, a couple of the fonts are so small as to be unreadable without my prescription reading glasses - that's *SMALL*!!! :D

And please remember that this is a beta version software - 0.91 to be accurate. Some things will be added or changed in the production release. Hopefully including hyphenation support.

Derek

1. Nothing wrong withthe way the book is formatted. How would you have formatted it?
2. I wonder why there is no battery meter display.
3. The header is quite large as well.

I also notice that the Cybook also does not have hyphenation support.

How close is the Gen3 to production? Is it safe to assume that the hardware has been locked down, and it is now just a matter of tweaking the software? Are we talking mid-October to get units out to customers, or are we really talking about Christmas season?

I hope they would tell us, since they need to compete against what must be an impending release of Sony's PRS-505 (since they're released marketing material to retailers). Will Bookeen give a firm date, or just "soon"? To be fair, Sony hasn't set a date either, but they must really be close if a retailer had information. Plus, their latest $199 Classics deal has a firm must-use-by 9/30 date, so I'm guessing Oct. 1 for release of the Sony. If Bookeen says they can deliver by mid-October, I might just wait it out. Then again, if they set a date and break it, all bets are off. I won't be strung along.

I do like the less-button, cleaner look of the Cyboook. Despite my loathing of DRM, I do like the Mobipocket support. I don't have time to futz around breaking DRM and converting books right now, so a reader with Mobipocket support is somewhat appealing.

Sorry about all of that, its just a really frustrating time for an eInk purchaser.

Something which I have seen mentioned yet...

Does the Gen 3 have attachment points for a book-style cover?

Mike,

As we don't actually *work* for Bookeen, I can't say what the firm release date is. I can say that I believe the control layout is fixed. And the software, as I mentioned earlier is up to release 0.91. But if not the final, the hardware is very close to production level. I don't know yet how they intend to attach the cover. I don't see attachment points on this case - but this may well be a pre-production case. I'll know more later.

Derek

Something which I have seen mentioned yet...

Does the Gen 3 have attachment points for a book-style cover?

delphidb96, does the gen3 have a suspended mode like the sony reader ?

thx :)

1. Nothing wrong with the way the book is formatted. How would you have formatted it?

Correctly? :rolleyes: Look at it: in seven different places you're in the middle of a sentence, and the text moves to the next line and indents as if it's a new paragraph. The input text clearly had hard breaks, and these weren't removed in the display text. Broken reflow isn't a killer, but it is inelegant.

Correctly? :rolleyes: Look at it: in seven different places you're in the middle of a sentence, and the text moves to the next line and indents as if it's a new paragraph. The input text clearly had hard breaks, and these weren't removed in the display text. Broken reflow isn't a killer, but it is inelegant.
Ok, so the format of the book is not a problem. The book itself is the problem. That you can get when you have a book you've either downloaded from the net someplace or even in some PG text.

JSWolf,

I would rather have a small battery display and either a page progress bar or a page/total pages indicator - but I think that could be done in a default smaller size. And yes, IMO, the header is too large. The header and page number footer use the same size and family as the body text - so they both shrink and grow - not a good thing if the person is using a really *LARGE* font size for the text section.

And I've noticed that at the smallest two font sizes, a couple of the fonts are so small as to be unreadable without my prescription reading glasses - that's *SMALL*!!! :D

And please remember that this is a beta version software - 0.91 to be accurate. Some things will be added or changed in the production release. Hopefully including hyphenation support.

Derek
So MobiPocket formatted books seems to have some of the same issues as books formatted for the Connect Store as far as text size goes.

Hyphenation support is only doable if you have dictionary support for looking up words and where to hyphenate unless you add in soft hyphen support which you cannot do as the standard is now. But it's not an issue to modify the reader to allow hyphen's via a dictionary without modifying any of the functionality.

Guguy,

I don't know. Please remember that this is an engineering sample. That means, among other things, they didn't include a User's Guide. It may well have a suspend mode and I just don't know how to get it at this point. Then again, it may not.

Derek

delphidb96, does the gen3 have a suspended mode like the sony reader ?

thx :)

Could be. I've mostly used my Axim for reading and used either MS Reader or eReader Pro as my ebook apps. I've used Mobi on my PC, but that's a much bigger piece of real estate. If I knew more, I'd tell you, but I've passed the soft-hyphenation idea along to Bookeen.

Derek

So MobiPocket formatted books seems to have some of the same issues as books formatted for the Connect Store as far as text size goes.

Hyphenation support is only doable if you have dictionary support for looking up words and where to hyphenate unless you add in soft hyphen support which you cannot do as the standard is now. But it's not an issue to modify the reader to allow hyphen's via a dictionary without modifying any of the functionality.

I think I kinda become to enjoy the cybook design... :)
It's minimalistic but in the end it's quite cool :p

For a book to compare the Sony and Cybook, I suggest Wells, H.G.: War of the Worlds. In LRF (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10979) and PRC (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13751). I don't have a Sony, but the PRC version looks good in MobiPocket Reader and FBReader (manually select windows-1252 encoding).

My favorite test text is Ring of Fire (http://www.webscription.net/p-352-ring-of-fire.aspx), which is a Baen free book. I use the .prc version in FBReader, but I don't know what the best way to import it to the Sony would be. FBReader screenshots (http://www.fbreader.org/zaurus-qtopia/screenshots/) often show the start of "The Wallenstein Gambit" because it has an embedded image.

I'd really like to know about ghosting on the Cybook compared to the Sony. Does the vizplex have the same amount of ghosting as the old e-ink display? Or have they solved that issue?

Nice to see a new ereader coming out although I must say that I share some of the concerns others have already voiced here...

It appears that the STAReBOOK design was used but slightly altered to create this device. The side buttons are the same, but the main control unit and the strip at the bottom front were redesigned.
I'd love to try flashing the Cybook firmware onto my STAReBOOK, but I'm not sure whether the drivers for the Vizplex display would be included and might kill my STAReBOOK (although I might risk it anyway since the guys at stareread have still not finished the new Firmware and I've long ago grown tired of broken formatting...and have returned to the Iliad with it's mobipocket support).

Concerning suspend mode...if they went with the same core OS as the STAReBOOK, then it'll be only low-power mode and will run out of juice after about a week of lying around doing nothing (and about the same with regular reading). The stareread folks never gave me a clear answer on this matter and since I haven't been able to reach them for quite some time now I've given up on the matter.

I'm looking forward to hearing what the Cybook behaves like and if you have a firmware flasher and firmware file somewhere, then I'll certainly consider giving the cross-flashing to the STAReBOOK a try. Since the device is not really in use anymore and I never paid anything for it I might risk giving it a try.

Related to the Page X of Y display, this is more of a "it would be nice if" request than any kind of specific Cybook criticism...

It would be nice to see how many pages are left in the current chapter. With a real book, I frequently flip ahead to see how many pages are left in the current chapter. Just to see whether it is worthwhile to push through to the next chapter break, or get back to real life whether that means going to sleep or saying to the wife "I'll get to that in a second, I've just got a few pages left".

I strongly second this idea. I'm not "forcing" myself to finish a book or anything like that, but I when I stop reading, I like to break at the end of a chapter. It makes the book flow better for me. While I would love to have the leisure of being able to read entire books in one sitting, I rarely get the opportunity.

I don't think I'd particularly care how many total pages are left but then that's something I always have a feel for with a paper book since I can see the physical thickness of the remaining pages. Maybe I would miss it if it were gone but I'm guessing it'll be less important to me than chapter progress. I suppose that could be a nifty user-settable preference, though. It seems an easy thing to implement for those that want it and folks that want that extra line on the screen could turn it off.

You know what would be cool and I don't know enough about the various ebook formats to even know if its possible.

Use whitespace for battery meeter display. So when you are aren't the first page of a new chapter it displays the battery meter in the customary whitespace at the top so that it isn't constantly eating up display.

Or shared real estate for both. On page one of a chapter you know you have the whole chapter to go so the status bar shows batter status, on any other page of the chapter it shows relative progress for that chapter.

All of y'all.

These are good ideas as far as *I'm* concerned. And it's great knowing that Bookeen monitors them so that they have a user-inspired source of improvements. One thing, there's supposed to be a means for turning off the header and footer in the ebooks, I just haven't found it yet. :smack:

And I like the idea of being able to choose between a page number, page number of total pages, progress bar and any of the above with battery-level for the footer. Title? Well the header with the title isn't one that I really need, but it's nice to know I can choose it. I'd go with a separate - smaller font - title to the left and author to the right header if I could have it that way.

Derek

You know what would be cool and I don't know enough about the various ebook formats to even know if its possible.

Use whitespace for battery meeter display. So when you are aren't the first page of a new chapter it displays the battery meter in the customary whitespace at the top so that it isn't constantly eating up display.

Or shared real estate for both. On page one of a chapter you know you have the whole chapter to go so the status bar shows batter status, on any other page of the chapter it shows relative progress for that chapter.

Is battery life comperable to the Sony?

Adam,

It took me about three and a half days to drop from 100% to 60% - during which time I had the device on 24/7 except for about a two-hour break on the second day.

Oh yeah... There's a removable lid over the battery compartment. This glossy black case is *NOT* the most conducive to close-ups using the built-in, pop-up flash and while my light-tent has arrived, the display racks and the daylight-balanced CFL photofloods haven't. As soon as they do, I'll be taking other photos, including one with the battery cover removed.

Derek

Is battery life comperable to the Sony?

Officially 8000 page turn.

Derek,

Have a look at the following page: http://www.nuutbook.com/goods/goods_view.asp?class=NUUT&type=nuut%20(np-601w)

I can't be 100% certain, but I think this device is based off the same reference design as the Cybook Gen3 (since the physical dimensions are identical, and the buttons positions are the same).

Have a look at how it attaches to the cover. Does it look like the Gen3 might attach in the same fashion?

Also interesting if you read that page, the device contains a 250MHz CPU, but is underclocked to 200MHz.

The Nuut is a clone of the STAReBOOK. It has the same buttons and everything. Internal workings might be different, but I doubt it.
It should be similar to the Cybook, but since the Cy has a slightly different casing I'm not sure just HOW similar.

It took me about three and a half days to drop from 100% to 60% - during which time I had the device on 24/7 except for about a two-hour break on the second day.

This is more consistent with CommanderROR's STAReBOOK experience (post #75) "run out of juice after about a week of lying around doing nothing (and about the same with regular reading)", than 8,000 page turns.

8000 pageturns is correct anyway...but don't expect to get to READ 8000 pages...

It's a trick...you can do about 1pps (page per second) and then you'll have your 8000 in 8000 seconds which is rougly 2.5 hours...
But if it takes you about 3 minutes to read one page, then you would have the device running for 3x8000 minutes which is 400 hours and more than the device can do on "low-power-mode" even without the additional drain of prechaching and pageturning.
Apart from the Sony Reader and the Hanlins nobody seems to have grasped the real meaning of eink for power-saving.

MikeF74,

It sure *DOES*!!! Now if I could only figure out how to order a black softcover! Anybody speak Korean?

Derek

Derek,

Have a look at the following page: http://www.nuutbook.com/goods/goods_view.asp?class=NUUT&type=nuut%20(np-601w)

I can't be 100% certain, but I think this device is based off the same reference design as the Cybook Gen3 (since the physical dimensions are identical, and the buttons positions are the same).

Have a look at how it attaches to the cover. Does it look like the Gen3 might attach in the same fashion?

The big problem with a sleep mode is how long does it take the device to wake up and be able to do something. If it has a fast power on cycle and that takes you right back to where you left off, why even have a sleep mode?

Of course, if it's turn off/ turn on cycle takes you back to the main menu, it could be somewhat frustrating. In such a case, having a sleep/suspend mode which takes you back directly to where you were reading would be a nice feature - one which, in version 0.91 (beta) I sorely miss.:pray:

Derek

The big problem with a sleep mode is how long does it take the device to wake up and be able to do something. If it has a fast power on cycle and that takes you right back to where you left off, why even have a sleep mode?

I rather like turning the Sony off and then back on tot he page it was on when I suspended it. I do now have a proper off for times if I am not going to be using it for some time.

Read our notes delphidb96, that's a planned feature.

I don't see a problem where if the device auto suspends after about 30min of no button presses (if not playing music). Waiting the extra 30s for it to come out of resume is a small price to pay for improved battery life. It should come out when pressing any button, not just the power button. Ideally, it would know which button brought it out of suspend so that action can be taken once the system is ready. Some indicator would be necessary to explain the wait, but otherwise keep the text on the screen until the system is back up. Definitely don't want to see any boot imagry.

If some people always need it "at the ready", for example a salesman using it for quick reference to show a client, then there should be a menu option to disable auto-suspend.

Of course, if it's turn off/ turn on cycle takes you back to the main menu, it could be somewhat frustrating. In such a case, having a sleep/suspend mode which takes you back directly to where you were reading would be a nice feature - one which, in version 0.91 (beta) I sorely miss.:pray:

Derek
Other then the book format being different (BBeB vs Mobi) and the screen being Vizplex, what is better about the Gen3 then the PRS500?

Other then the book format being different (BBeB vs Mobi) and the screen being Vizplex, what is better about the Gen3 then the PRS500?I like the simplified, cleaner interface with fewer buttons. The Sony just looks so busy and intimidating. Whereas the Cybook looks like something you can just pick up and start reading with. This helps, because I usually end up proselytizing neat technology to friends and family. :)

With the faster Vizplex screen, I'm surprised Sony didn't do away with the 1-10 buttons for the PRS-505 in favor of arrowing around.

I like the simplified, cleaner interface with fewer buttons. The Sony just looks so busy and intimidating. Whereas the Cybook looks like something you can just pick up and start reading with. This helps, because I usually end up proselytizing neat technology to friends and family. :)

With the faster Vizplex screen, I'm surprised Sony didn't do away with the 1-10 buttons for the PRS-505 in favor of arrowing around.
If I am at menu item #1, I can just pres 9 and go right to it without having to down down down down down down down down enter. That makes it fairly easy to navigate the menus.

Both interfaces have avantages and drawbacks, and when the PRS-505 will
be out it will be the main difference between the gen3 and the reader
(that, and the price in favor of the reader).

Ok, the Cybook can read Mobipocket files but the mobi drm has been
cracked, so...

Both interfaces have avantages and drawbacks, and when the PRS-505 will
be out it will be the main difference between the gen3 and the reader
(that, and the price in favor of the reader).

Ok, the Cybook can read Mobipocket files but the mobi drm has been
cracked, so...
And so has LIT. So there now just as much source material for the Sony as the Cybook as far as DRM free material goes as long as you are willing to convert.

Penty,

*WHICH* is a planned feature? Sleep/suspend mode? Battery-level indicator within an ebook? Changeable header content? Or all of the above?

Derek

Read our notes delphidb96, that's a planned feature.

Well, *I* prefer the controls - I'm always bumping one of the 0-9 function keys on the PRS500. I prefer the ability to choose font families - and eventually be able to load my own. I prefer being able to choose from nine different font sizes - sometimes I don't have the booklight, nor my reading glasses, and being able to nudge up to just the right larger font size is a blessing. I prefer the noticeably lighter weight. I'm going to rummage around for the food scale so I'll be able to tell you the exact weight difference.

And as I learn more about it and updates come my way, I'll point out more. I'm taking notes right now...

Derek

Other then the book format being different (BBeB vs Mobi) and the screen being Vizplex, what is better about the Gen3 then the PRS500?

With the goto page function within a book, I no longer have the bump the number button and go to some other page as an issue.

Good point. As I said, I've left my Sony 'stock'. Mom doesn't like these 'upgrades' - wouldn't even *consider* letting me add them - and it's going to be her device now that I have the Cybook.

Derek

With the goto page function within a book, I no longer have the bump the number button and go to some other page as an issue.

Yet another image I snapped while waiting for my photofloods. This is a shot of the Cybook displaying a page of the graphic novel "Roswell, Texas", which can be found at BigHead Press ( www.bigheadpress.com )

Derek

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r84/photobyderek/P9176324.jpg

Derek,

The Cybook appears to have two buttons on the right side and four buttons on the left. What are their functions?

Susan

Susgod,

On the front is the wonderful jogwheel/compass/navigator, AKA the main directional pad.

On the left edge are four function buttons. From the top, they are:

Audio Center (also F1)
Contextual Menu (also F2)
Back (also F3)
Delete (also F4)

On the right edge are two function buttons. From the top, they are:

Volume Up
Volume Down

The top edge has one SD card slot and one button. The button is Power.

The bottom edge has a rubber gasket covering the USB port and the earphone connector port.

Hope this helps.

Derek

DeDerek,

The Cybook appears to have two buttons on the right side and four buttons on the left. What are their functions?

Susan

Derek,

How do you navigate within a book on the CyBook? Is there a "goto page X" facility? As you may know, on the "standard" MobiPocket Reader there's a progress bar that one can simply tap with the mouse or stylus to move to that position. How is it done on this machine?

Chapter selection only, nothing finer at this time.

Chapter selection only, nothing finer at this time.

Chapter selection ? You mean that the TOC of the book is available in the UI of the device directly ?

So how does one navigate in a book which doesn't have a table of contents?

So how does one navigate in a book which doesn't have a table of contents?

Very, Very, slowly, I'm assuming... :rolleyes:

I guess I was expecting something a bit more advanced. I may hold off on getting the cybook until I see a full, complete, review and maybe a software update.

HarryT,

Not that I've seen in beta release 0.91. From what I understand, we should be getting beta release 0.96 shortly. Right now there's a Back and Forward option on the pop-up menu, but I believe other choices will be forthcoming.

Derek

Derek,

How do you navigate within a book on the CyBook? Is there a "goto page X" facility? As you may know, on the "standard" MobiPocket Reader there's a progress bar that one can simply tap with the mouse or stylus to move to that position. How is it done on this machine?

One pages through to the page one wants. :(

Of course, it's not that hard to make a TOC using Mobipocket Creator or BookDesigner. I recommend getting Mobipocket Creator and bookmarking this page at Mobipocket: http://www.mobipocket.com/dev/article.asp?BaseFolder=prcgen

Derek

So how does one navigate in a book which doesn't have a table of contents?

Quick question, will the Cybook Gen3 support Chinese font?

Graphics from that site looks nice, do you have a way to queu them all up so you don't have to be online to view them; i.e., don't have to right-click, save ...

Be fun to check out, since I'm into comics so much! Thanks for another soure. :D

BTW, no review yet ?

BTW, no review yet ?We've got a whole other thread devoted to that topic (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13956). :)

Well... Don't tell anyone, Azayzel, but I've been slowly downloading the bitmaps to my machine and converting them into JPEGs. A couple of them are rather large, so I've been cutting across frame breaks to get them to a decent size per frame and I'm creating a PDF version of it - formatted for my Cybook's screen in Landscape mode - to have as a sample of what the Cybook can do. Note that I'm not doing any color-to-grayscale conversion on the images, just changing from BMP to JPG. I think the grayscale rendering done by the Cybook - and my Sony PRS-500 - is pretty darned good!

Derek

Graphics from that site looks nice, do you have a way to queu them all up so you don't have to be online to view them; i.e., don't have to right-click, save ...

Be fun to check out, since I'm into comics so much! Thanks for another soure. :D

Hamh,

Don't know yet? Do you have an ebook, Mobipocket format, which has Chinese TrueType fonts? If so, post it and I'll give it a try. I'll take pictures of the results.

Derek

Quick question, will the Cybook Gen3 support Chinese font?

Btw, is there/will there be folder support and navigation on the Cybook? Not being able to sort my books in folders is one (small) reason I stay away from the Sony Reader.

Btw, is there/will there be folder support and navigation on the Cybook? Not being able to sort my books in folders is one (small) reason I stay away from the Sony Reader.

Well it's a UMS device, I don't see any reason they shouldn't have folder support...

I thought Sony's PRS-500 supported 'collections' on it? Waitaminit... yep, got mine set up with collections for paranormal mysteries and one for sf.

Of course, that doesn't make a bit of difference because it CAN'T USE COLLECTIONS ON THE FREAKIN' SD CARD!!!! :smack:

IOW, 'folders' work just great ON THE PRS-500, but not on the SD card! D'Oh!:smack: :smack: :smack: And, of course, the device can handle about 80 ebooks max. Wow!:huh:

Yeah, not one of the better decisions by Sony for their 500 model. Don't know if the 505 will support folders and collections on the SD card.

And, unfortunately, I don't know if the Cybook will. I presume so, but my current one doesn't - yet. This could be in there in next week's firmware update - or not.

Derek

Btw, is there/will there be folder support and navigation on the Cybook? Not being able to sort my books in folders is one (small) reason I stay away from the Sony Reader.

wh y did you get a review unit if youre going to be waiting for it to be developed further before reviewing it? nobody is expecting you to describe the future or maybe next time you should wait till its in the store. or wait after that until you know the company has gone bankrupt so you *really* have the final word about it.

I don't want to speak for Derek, but I think the reason he was waiting was because not only was his firmware old, but really lacking in many areas. He wasn't waiting for further development, just delivery of a newer existing firmware that really was a better reflection of what the device would finally become. Then a damaged screen sidelined his review efforts. Was it delayed damage from when he dropped it? Was it a manufacturing defect that finally revealed itself? Who knows. But you certainly can't do a proper review with photos if the device is damaged. Besides, I wasn't even 100% comfortable with him doing a review on pre-release hardware anyway. The electronics might have been finalized, but the outer shell wasn't.

I don't want to speak for Derek, but I think the reason he was waiting was because not only was his firmware old, but really lacking in many areas.

As long as we're not speaking for Derek :D, part of the reason might also be that it's not, in the normal sense, a review unit. As an employee of NAEB, Derek's interests go beyond just doing a quick review.

As long as we're not speaking for Derek :D, part of the reason might also be that it's not, in the normal sense, a review unit. As an employee of NAEB, Derek's interests go beyond just doing a quick review.True. While his self-interest has always been a small personal concern to me, I never felt so bothered as to express such an opinion. I always figured he'd put such a disclaimer in his review. If he didn't, I would certainly say something. Since they seem to be enthusiasts first, resellers second... I'm not overly concerned.

True. While his self-interest has always been a small personal concern to me, I never felt so bothered as to express such an opinion. I always figured he'd put such a disclaimer in his review. If he didn't, I would certainly say something. Since they seem to be enthusiasts first, resellers second... I'm not overly concerned.
Send me a review unit. I'll give a very impartial review.

Send me a review unit. I'll give a very impartial review.

Just to keep myself from looking like a jerk, here, I should mention that my intention was not to question Derek's honesty or impartiality. I was merely mentioning why a delay for a firmware upgrade made sense.

Just to keep myself from looking like a jerk, here, I should mention that my intention was not to question Derek's honesty or impartiality. I was merely mentioning why a delay for a firmware upgrade made sense.
It does make sense to wait. But, it also makes sense to review the firmware he has so he can comare it to the newer one and show that Bookeen is working on the software and doing a good job.

... I should mention that my intention was not to question Derek's honesty or impartiality.I took your comment to mean that you recognized that as a representative of the company, Derek would want to deliver as complete and accurate a review to his prospective customers as he was able. :shrug:

It does make sense to wait. But, it also makes sense to review the firmware he has so he can comare it to the newer one and show that Bookeen is working on the software and doing a good job.True, but when the firmware he has is not the firmware the device will ship with, and that newer firmware will become available to him imminently, I think I'd choose to wait too. :shrug:

Among other things, why review a firmware that's already obsolete? Seems like a waste of time and effort to me. :shrug:

delphidb96: It would be nice to know the largest image supported by Bookeen (or iRex iLiad for that matter :-). Perhaps you can load http://rob.com/airports/test/ and then click on each of the images and tell us what happens?

Guys, guys, guys!

Please! As anyone who's received and read the latest Bookeen newsletter knows, there are significant upgrades/changes in the upcoming firmware update. So should I give you a *really* bad review based upon firmware that I *KNOW* is out of date? Or should I present you with a review based upon up-to-date features, features and fixes which change my opinion? Or what if I give you a *glowing* review based upon the older firmware and the newer firmware turns out to be a total dud - maybe locks up my machine like a brick?

Which would you rather have? If I tell you I hate the reader and then come back with high praise, do you figure Bookeen's gotten its act together or do you decide I've been bought off? And if I tell you I love it, pointing out all there is good about it, then turn around and point out the terrible flaws in new update, do you then decide I'm wishy-washy and can't be trusted to know when it's daytime?

We here at NAEB expected firmware that was a bit further along - it wasn't. And we promised reviews based upon what we expected, not what we received. So we've been querying Bookeen as to just *when* we'd get our updated firmware. We now have a better idea of that. Plus, they've taken the feedback we and other previewers have given them to make hardware changes as well. I cannot tell you what they are, but I believe the production units will be improved enough to make them quite marketable.

Now, can I be more honest? You tell me.

Derek

So will there be a firmware past 0.96 before you review the gen3?

I guess bookeen will launch a new firmware (0.98? 1.0?) since 0.96 is
already done for a week or two.

if i understan d correctly in 1 month they will be making software and hardware design changes and mass produce them? i hope they will take off all printed distracting elements. i would like to see only what im reading surrounded by pure calmth. they can do branding on the back and startup screen i guess.

I guess bookeen will launch a new firmware (0.98? 1.0?) since 0.96 is
already done for a week or two.

I downloaded the grayscale test HTML and ran it through BD and then uploaded it to my Cybook. It looks to me as if the 16 levels are 'dithered' in, but I cant' tell for sure as the square of bars displayes at about 1" wide. So I may be seeing true 16-level grayscale or 4-level that's been 'smart-dithered'. I believe I read somewhere that the Cybook uses a 'smart-dither' process. If so, it's pretty darned good.

As for the text mods - bold, italic, super/subscript, etc... the four basic ones, sub/superscript, underline, bold and italic show up. But nix on special strikouts, quotation, citation and variable definition font changes within the text. Also, I'm not seeing grayscale backgrounds for the letter groups across and down the side of the grayscale square.

You have to understand that - at least with the current version of firmware, 0.91 - when you select one of the seven font families, *ALL* text within the book displays in that font. Now the vast majority of the text will be in the selected size, but some of it will increase or shrink a bit depending if it's been marked as a 'heading' or such.

Derek

Here's a nice big (600x800) image of 16 shades of gray. (http://sunedonath.de/misc/16_shades_of_gray.png)
That should give a better impression than the tiny image you tried. But I'm pretty sure the Cybook only supports 4 colours (that's what their website says) and I've read on E Ink's website that Vizplex supports 8 shades of gray -- but as HarryT mentioned in a different thread the screen controller used in the Cybook does not.
But does it really matter that much as long as the dithering is good enough? I don't think so ...

Here's a nice big (600x800) image of 16 shades of gray. (http://sunedonath.de/misc/16_shades_of_gray.png)
That should give a better impression than the tiny image you tried. But I'm pretty sure the Cybook only supports 4 colours (that's what their website says) and I've read on E Ink's website that Vizplex supports 8 shades of gray -- but as HarryT mentioned in a different thread the screen controller used in the Cybook does not.
But does it really matter that much as long as the dithering is good enough? I don't think so ...

Not bad at all. Another feature of the eb1150 that got matched. :-)

Oh, and I am curious to know how this image (http://sunedonath.de/misc/shades_of_gray.png) looks like on the Cybook. My image editor (GIMP) did a pretty bad job on dithering the image to 4 shades of gray (floyd-steinberg algorithm), so I want to know if the Cybook dithering is better.

Oh, and I am curious to know how this image (http://sunedonath.de/misc/shades_of_gray.png) looks like on the Cybook. My image editor (GIMP) did a pretty bad job on dithering the image to 4 shades of gray (floyd-steinberg algorithm), so I want to know if the Cybook dithering is better.

Icehand,

It's dithered, but still looks decent. You can tell that there are '16' shades. And given the quality of my color images I've dropped in from "Roswell, Texas", I'm not complaining. :)

Derek

Thanks so much for identifying 16 bands of "gray".

> and ran it through BD and then uploaded it to my Cybook.
I thought the Cybook could read html directly? why convert? or is "BD" some kinda sync software? sorry, I'm new to ebooks.

but I would still love to know the max image size and if it supports image panning. here are the images that were linked on the last page:

http://rob.com/airports/test/2048x2048.png
http://rob.com/airports/test/1024x1024.png
http://rob.com/airports/test/600x1024.png
http://rob.com/airports/test/512x512.png

The last one being smaller than the known screen size and should give us an idea if the other images were "changed" by the Cybook in upload.

shades_of_gray.png had 256 gray levels, while these images only have 16. Thanks alot for taking the time to test this.

Thanks so much for identifying 16 bands of "gray".

> and ran it through BD and then uploaded it to my Cybook.
I thought the Cybook could read html directly? why convert? or is "BD" some kinda sync software? sorry, I'm new to ebooks.

but I would still love to know the max image size and if it supports image panning. here are the images that were linked on the last page:

http://rob.com/airports/test/2048x2048.png
http://rob.com/airports/test/1024x1024.png
http://rob.com/airports/test/600x1024.png
http://rob.com/airports/test/512x512.png

The last one being smaller than the known screen size and should give us an idea if the other images were "changed" by the Cybook in upload.

shades_of_gray.png had 256 gray levels, while these images only have 16. Thanks alot for taking the time to test this.

Honestly, I don't know *why* I ran it through BD. :blink:

As for your four PNG files, it choked on the 2048x2048 but accepted all the rest. It could zoom to full-size - but there was no panning - or zoom out to show the entire image on the screen. This was the case on the 600x1024, 1024x1024 and 512x512.

HTH

Derek

fo r th e record, delphidb96, will you be reviewing it before its available en masse or not? if so, when?

> choked on the 2048x2048
It might be because the file size was greater than a Meg. I'll reduce it to 4 ugly colors to make the file smaller.

> but there was no panning
so "next page" does nothing viewing the 600x1024 image? hmm..

> I don't know *why* I ran it through BD.
perhaps loading the html directly with get the font size changes and shading in the table to work.

> So I may be seeing true 16-level grayscale or 4-level that's been 'smart-dithered'.
I'll expand the center grays, this will show the bars better.

also it would be nice to know if it does html dirs. so I updated http://rob.com/airports/test/ with the above changes. But you can grab http://rob.com/airports/test/all.zip
with one click. Expand it and drag it to the ebook.

fo r th e record, delphidb96, will you be reviewing it before its available en masse or not? if so, when?

I'm going to *attempt* to do so. When depends so much upon when I get the version 1.0 release of the firmware. I believe that this will happen soon.

Derek

what abou t the hardwar e changes? maybe you will write about something that will change later on...

> choked on the 2048x2048
It might be because the file size was greater than a Meg. I'll reduce it to 4 ugly colors to make the file smaller.

> but there was no panning
so "next page" does nothing viewing the 600x1024 image? hmm..

> I don't know *why* I ran it through BD.
perhaps loading the html directly with get the font size changes and shading in the table to work.

> So I may be seeing true 16-level grayscale or 4-level that's been 'smart-dithered'.
I'll expand the center grays, this will show the bars better.

also it would be nice to know if it does html dirs. so I updated http://rob.com/airports/test/ with the above changes. But you can grab http://rob.com/airports/test/all.zip
with one click. Expand it and drag it to the ebook.

Thanx. I'll test out your changed files.

No to your question, the Previous/Next commands just move to the prior or next image in the directory.

And I took the image out and turned it into an 800x600 image and it definitely showed 16 levels - through dithering.

Okay, I just tried it with a set of HTML files and one of my Mobi ebooks. The Cybook allowed me to move my HTML files into a sub-folder within the HTML folder and I was able to see them in the main menu - and access them.

However, doing the same thing with the Mobi ebook dropped the book from the main menu. It's a definite no-go for putting Mobi ebooks in sub-folders of the main Mobi folder. But remember that this may well change with version 0.96 and newer firmware.

Derek

I think I'm missing something basic. When you make a new folder in your "html" folder that contains the index.html and view it... it loads dither.png 16.png also found in that new directory and displays on the page much like we see it on the PC web browser (without the strike through and font size changes). Are you also able to see the links at the bottom and click on them too? (like the 4bit 2048x2048 image and link to the one/ directory)

However, doing the same thing with the Mobi ebook dropped the book from the main menu. It's a definite no-go for putting Mobi ebooks in sub-folders of the main Mobi folder. But remember that this may well change with version 0.96 and newer firmware.

Why the hell didn't you receive 0.96 firmware ? It seems to be available for a about a
week since it has been used in the gen3 demo clip.

Sometimes I just DON'T understand why bookeen is acting so strangely.

Maybe they don't have a firmware flasher ready yet?

Yes, sure, when they want to test their new firmware they order a new GEN3
to PVI... :p

I'm just guessing ... maybe they're using special software/hardware which can't be easily used by 'normal people' or something like that. Though I must admit that they should have an easy to use and secure (i.e. non bricking) firmware flasher ready by now.

far far away in the mountains lives an old man that can flash it. the sherpas are too busy atm.

Why the hell didn't you receive 0.96 firmware ? It seems to be available for a about a
week since it has been used in the gen3 demo clip.

Sometimes I just DON'T understand why bookeen is acting so strangely.


Guguy,

Look, we receive what Bookeen sends us when they send it. I'd love to have the latest stable firmware release sitting in my inbox right now. I don't. (Although a little birdie implies that I *may* have it waiting for me by Monday.) I'm hoping that by the time it *does* show up it will be version 0.97, 0.98 or maybe even 1.0! That would be nice. :)

Yes, the process is frustrating. Yes, I'm learning far more about Zen and how to apply it within my life than I ever expected to. Yes, this process is making me stretch my boundaries and grow like I've never grown before. :)

Derek

Yes, sure, when they want to test their new firmware they order a new GEN3
to PVI... :p

Oh PLEASE! STOP! You're making me laugh *FAR* too hard! :D :D :D

No one - not even the members of the US Congress - would be that stupid!

Derek

I think I'm missing something basic. When you make a new folder in your "html" folder that contains the index.html and view it... it loads dither.png 16.png also found in that new directory and displays on the page much like we see it on the PC web browser (without the strike through and font size changes). Are you also able to see the links at the bottom and click on them too? (like the 4bit 2048x2048 image and link to the one/ directory)

Okay...

I've uploaded all the new test HTML files into my Cybook. I can *see* each of the HTML files in the main menu - separately. I can *open* these from the main menu. I cannot traverse the links from within the HTML files. I've tried - doesn't work. And the graphics??? Well, let's just say that we're definitely talking 4-level grayscale - no dithering. I've also noticed the font-color changes aren't dithering. They also show up as 4-level. This is not the same as when the Cybook is displaying a standalone image.

Derek

ok, so html is kinda limited in .91. I put


afd/1/a/al_33_30AUG2007.png
afd/1/a/ec_12_30AUG2007.png
afd/1/b/ec_284_30AUG2007.png
afd/1/b/al_195_30AUG2007.png
afd/2/c/al_89_30AUG2007.png
afd/2/c/al_56_30AUG2007.png
afd/2/c/al_118_30AUG2007.png
afd/2/d/ec_3_30AUG2007.png
afd/2/d/al_68_30AUG2007.png
afd/2/d/al_165_30AUG2007.png


in an archive.. If you drag "afd" into the photo section, lets hope you find just one "afd" entry on the main menu, then a choice of 1 or 2 after selecting "afd", followed by a choice of a or b if you selected 1. Then see any of the at least two, 8gray 600x800 images. It would also be nice to know if the text is readable. It looks kinda small on my screen: http://rob.com/airports/test/afd/

here is the archive: http://rob.com/airports/test/afd.zip

thanks again!

Plus, they've taken the feedback we and other previewers have given them to make hardware changes as well.

Now, can I be more honest? You tell me.

I would like to read your feedback you sent to Bookeen. You see, I know, this isn't the final thing. I would just like to know, how the Cybook stands now. What is already fine, what Bookeen has to work on.

I know this isn't the final form of the device, and that I have to wait some months before it will be available. And I know the final form will be somewhat different. But at least it would give me an insight to where the Cybook stands NOW, because NOW I don't have much information but mostly guess-work.

You had a (non-final -- we knew that) device, which could be very usefull to show the actual developpment-position of the Cybook in the count down to the official release.

:headscratch:

The problem is that the using that Derek has now has old firmware. he cannot say what Bookeen has done with 0.96 or any later firmware if they have such. That's what's holding up the review.

I would like to read your feedback you sent to Bookeen. You see, I know, this isn't the final thing. I would just like to know, how the Cybook stands now. What is already fine, what Bookeen has to work on.

I know this isn't the final form of the device, and that I have to wait some months before it will be available. And I know the final form will be somewhat different. But at least it would give me an insight to where the Cybook stands NOW, because NOW I don't have much information but mostly guess-work.

You had a (non-final -- we knew that) device, which could be very usefull to show the actual developpment-position of the Cybook in the count down to the official release.

:headscratch:


Sebastiano,

I'm sorry. Have you invested in NAEB as a corporate officer? If so, why weren't you at the last officer's meeting? And why haven't you been added to our incorporation documentation? I don't believe I saw your signature on our NDA with Bookeen, either.

IOW, what feedback we've given direct to Bookeen is, quite literally, NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!

What information I and the others at NAEB post where the rest of the world can read it is pretty much what we're allowed to release. Short of our reviews, that is.

Derek

Yes, sure, when they want to test their new firmware they order a new GEN3
to PVI... :p

Oh PLEASE! STOP! You're making me laugh *FAR* too hard! :D :D :D

No one - not even the members of the US Congress - would be that stupid!

DerekI've said it before: "Never underestimate the capacity of humans to be stupid. Particularly in large numbers." I'd say that about defines Congress at least half the time.

I've said it before: "Never underestimate the capacity of humans to be stupid. Particularly in large numbers." I'd say that about defines Congress at least half the time.

You mean it defines half of the congress instead of half of the time :D

Nah, they're all capable of stupidity. :grin:

So maybe half the Congress at any given time ....

congres s is so smart it makes you think theyr e stupid.

anyway delphi you didnt get the firmware inbox this monday it seems?

congres s is so smart it makes you think theyr e stupid.

anyway delphi you didnt get the firmware inbox this monday it seems?

Nope, delphi*DB96* did *NOT* get his promised firmware updates yet. Not one bit has appeared in his embarrassingly barren email box! Delphidb96 is quite miffed! One could say his feathers are a bit ruffled and he's a tad bit out of sorts at this latest *non*development. :knife:

Derek

Sebastiano,

I'm sorry. Have you invested in NAEB as a corporate officer? If so, why weren't you at the last officer's meeting? And why haven't you been added to our incorporation documentation? I don't believe I saw your signature on our NDA with Bookeen, either.

IOW, what feedback we've given direct to Bookeen is, quite literally, NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!

What information I and the others at NAEB post where the rest of the world can read it is pretty much what we're allowed to release. Short of our reviews, that is.

Derek
So there. Don't you know better than to ask questions.

So there. Don't you know better than to ask questions.

Roncri,

It's not as bad as that, but Sebastiano's question seemed - to me - to ask for far more information than I felt comfortable releasing under our NDA with Bookeen. I could be wrong about what he was asking.

Derek

So there. Don't you know better than to ask questions.

Sorry for asking. Shouldn't happen ever again.

S.

Come on guys...don't get too worked up about this. I think you had a bit of a misunderstanding there and you should not let that turn into anything nasty.

I think delphidb96 is under a lot of pressure right now, since he's "officially" doing a review and everybody is bombarding him with questions. Bookeen is not giving him all that much information (companies like to do that...^^) and there is also surely stuff he's not supposed to talk about...
Still, I think the reaction to Sebastiano's questions was a bit harsh...but so were the "that's what you get for asking questions" posts later on.

Maybe we need a new meditation thread? After a visit there you can all have a round of apologies, handshakes all round and then back on topic and forget the whole deal?

I think the culprit here (if there is one) is bookeen because they are quite obviously not willing to keep delphidb96 up to date on firmware (he's still using the very first version they supplied him with even though they obviously have at least one newer version) and I don't see any reason to bug delphidb96 about that since he's obviously already quite annoyed about that himself...
Give the guy a break, it will all start coming together sooner or later I guess...:cool:

Sorry for asking. Shouldn't happen ever again.

S.

Asking questions is good. After all, there's no such thing as a stupid question. :)

It's just that we are caught between making sure that we give a review based upon the most current firmware update and trying to not release information that is still covered by our NDA agreements. Result? Stress. Stress causes me to snap at people who ask difficult (unbeknownst to them) questions. You happened to be one of those people. Sorry.

Derek

I think we're all eagerly anticipating your review and it's easy to forget when we express it that it can also feel like pressure for you. Plus you're in the unfortunate position of having to answer for something that is beyond your control.