Bookeen has tortured us all for the past few months revealing only few (but yummy) details on the new Cybook e-reader. Well, we think your long, arduous wait might be over soon. Michael Dahan of Bookeen sent in the official press release announcing that the Cybook Gen3 (finally this baby got a name!) has entered production and is ready to enter the market this coming September (at a starting price of US $350).

"The screen is truly like a sheet of paper, it can be viewed from nearly any angle and in a wide range of lighting conditions, including direct sunlight" said Michael Dahan, co-manager of Bookeen. "The ebook industry will clearly reach another stage with the new Cybook." Laurent Picard added: "Our ongoing partnership with Mobipocket is a great opportunity to bring their tremendous digital content to a new category of customers and to offer the most competitive device to the end user."

So the Cybook will be the second E Ink-based reader, following the iRex iLiad, to officially support Amazon's Mobipocket format which can display DRM-protected e-book content.

In case you've missed our earlier news, the Cybook Gen3 will be the first e-book reader to feature E Ink's next generation Vizplex e-paper technology which promises better contrast and a faster refresh rate than previous E Ink technologies. With a 6-inch screen and a 166 dpi resolution, the device will have a total weight of only 6.1 ounces (174g).

Follow the official press release after the jump.

Related: Official answer for battery and some general information (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11675), Specs of Bookeen Cybook E-Ink reader (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11450)

The press release:

New Revolutionary Bookeen ePaper eBook Device with Access to 50,000 Titles

Paris, France – July 26, 2007 – Bookeen is proud to announce its new Generation 3 Cybook. Based on the latest groundbreaking Vizplex™ epaper technology from E Ink, this ebook reading device offers an impressive 6” screen showing off a 166 dpi resolution.

Bookeen’s new product looks stunningly thin: it is the size of a paperback, the thickness of a magazine, for a weight of only 6.1 ounces (174 g). It boasts an impressive battery life of 8,000 page flips, allowing for an average reading time of 1 month without recharging. The device is compatible with all USB enabled computers, independently from the operating system (Windows, Mac, Linux…) and also offers an SD slot for virtually unlimited library storage space.

Concerning content availability, Bookeen also announces an agreement with Mobipocket, an Amazon company, to license and distribute the Mobipocket™ leading ebook format on the Cybook. The Mobipocket™ format offers access to a vast amount of copyrighted books ranging from bestselling Dan Brown's “The Da Vinci Code” to the latest Hillary Clinton’s biography. There are currently about 50,000 titles from world’s leading publishers available from dozens of online ebook stores.

Following its original open and multi-format strategy, Bookeen offers a true freedom of use regarding supported documents formats. Cybook owners are free to read personal and public domain content. “On the Cybook, you don't need to convert your files to an exotic format or upload them to any proprietary web site. You simply transfer your files directly to the device and read them natively” said Laurent Picard, co-founder of Bookeen.

The Cybook Gen3 has entered production and will be directly available next September from Bookeen online web store at bookeen.com, in different packs starting at $350. It will be the first product to include the new E Ink Vizplex™ technology, offering the brightest and fastest switching epaper display of the market.

“The screen is truly like a sheet of paper, it can be viewed from nearly any angle and in a wide range of lighting conditions, including direct sunlight” said Michael Dahan, co-manager of Bookeen. “The ebook industry will clearly reach another stage with the new Cybook.” Laurent Picard added: “Our ongoing partnership with Mobipocket is a great opportunity to bring their tremendous digital content to a new category of customers and to offer the most competitive device to the end user.”

To learn more about Bookeen and the Cybook, visit www.bookeen.com (http://www.bookeen.com).

About Bookeen

Bookeen is a privately held company – based in Paris, France – founded in 2003 by Michaël Dahan and Laurent Picard. Bookeen team pioneered the e-book industry as soon as 1998, designing and releasing the first commercial e-book device in Europe in 2000. From 2003 to 2006, Bookeen shipped the previous generation Cybook to over 40 countries. Both a hardware and software technology innovator, Bookeen has a comprehensive knowledge of the electronic publishing industry and is a global provider of digital content solutions.

Web site: www.bookeen.com


About Mobipocket

Mobipocket is located in Paris, France and is since April 2005 an Amazon company. Mobipocket has been developing software for the electronic publishing market since 2000. Its core software, Mobipocket™ Reader, is available on the widest range of mobile reading devices in the industry. Mobipocket also develops the OEB (Open E-Book) compliant Mobipocket™ reflowable file format which is the leading format for ebooks with tens of thousands of premium titles available. Mobipocket strives to deliver the best mobile reading experience to all digital content enthusiasts.

Mobipocket is a trademark of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.

Web site: www.mobipocket.com


About E Ink

Founded in 1997 based on research started at the MIT Media Lab, E Ink Corporation is the world's leading supplier of electronic paper display (EPD) technologies. E Ink is a private corporation that includes among its investors and strategic partners The Hearst Corporation, Intel Capital, Motorola, Inc., TOPPAN Printing Company, First Albany Technology Ventures, Solstice Capital and Air Products and Chemicals, Inc.

Vizplex is a trademark of E Ink Corporation.

Web site: www.eink.com

It's good news, because there is soon an alternative to the Sony Reader (and competition is always good, right?). It's not the best news, because $350 is still a small fortune. On the other hand, the press release does not reveal what the $350 will include, so I remain very optimistic :pray:

I give one extra point to Cybook just because they're trying hard as a small company and they're not as arrogant as some other players in the e-reader scene... :beer:

Oh absolutely. And they've been very responsive to the input from NAEB and others. Nothing like trying to work with Sony, iRex or even Hanlin Jinke. We look forward to receiving our evaluation units here at NAEB.

Derek

I give one extra point to Cybook just because they're trying hard as a small company and they're not as arrogant as some other players in the e-reader scene... :beer:

I suppose there is no possibility of dictionary integration, as in the Iliad. :(

L.

I suppose there is no possibility of dictionary integration, as in the Iliad. If the Gen3 is using MobiPocket's usual Java-based "Linux" reader (as on the iLiad) then dictionaries should work. If MobiPocket support is provided by Bookeen software directly, then perhaps not (or not initially).

If the Gen3 is using MobiPocket's usual Java-based "Linux" reader (as on the iLiad) then dictionaries should work. If MobiPocket support is provided by Bookeen software directly, then perhaps not (or not initially).

Maybe I'm missing something. Dictionary integration in the Iliad does not make use of the active display, like in a PDA?

L.

:yahoo:

Dictionary integration in the Iliad does not make use of the active display, like in a PDA? I was thinking of support for the format, but you are correct that in addition there would need to be a way to select words.

Following its original open and multi-format strategy, Bookeen offers a true freedom of use regarding supported documents formats. Cybook owners are free to read personal and public domain content. “On the Cybook, you don't need to convert your files to an exotic format or upload them to any proprietary web site. You simply transfer your files directly to the device and read them natively” said Laurent Picard, co-founder of Bookeen.

I like the sound of that... but I don't understand the sound of that. Is this simply referring to being able to read PDF files, or is the Cybook capable of reading other text or e-book formats without the need for the requisite applications? And does/will it support BBeB?

I'm tempted to dump my sony reader for this just because it supports mobipocket. At least the format is supported on a variety of devices. I'm always wary of buying anything from Connect because I don't know if I'll be able to read them again when my reader finally conks out.

It's also easier to browse the mobipocket/amazon store for books.

Bookeen supports the reading of PDF, HTML, RTF, TXT and Mobipocket. Yes, that means all 50,000 ebook titles currently available from Mobi will be accessible to the Cybook Gen3. BBeB? Nope, that's proprietary to Sony.

Derek

I like the sound of that... but I don't understand the sound of that. Is this simply referring to being able to read PDF files, or is the Cybook capable of reading other text or e-book formats without the need for the requisite applications? And does/will it support BBeB?

How do you load content on a Bookeen? I guess what I'm wondering is will it work with a Mac or is it PC only?

From [Bookeen] Official answer for battery and some general information (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11675) When connected to a host machine through a standard mini-USB cable, the Cybook is seen as an external mass storage device. You just need to drag and drop your files in the device memory and you can start reading. Note that the base system might require USB connection to recharge (once a month or so), since a stand alone charger is only provided with the "Deluxe" version. So a computer of some kind is needed to charge and to download e-books - not a major issue these days.

After the run around I have gotten from Sony trying to get them to ship the reader, I can't wait to get a Cybook. Plus, I like the fact they support mobipocker and I LOVE this part: “On the Cybook, you don't need to convert your files to an exotic format or upload them to any proprietary web site. You simply transfer your files directly to the device and read them natively” said Laurent Picard, co-founder of Bookeen.

That is totally sweet!!

I am just going to cancel the order on my Reader and wait a few more months for the Cybook. I will pay $350 for it. Sony can eat my dust.

While all of you Cybook owners are using DRM based MobiPocket formatted books, I'll stick with my DRM free LRF books. Of course, if I had a device that uses MobiPocket, I'd also have DRM free books for that too.

Bookeen supports the reading of PDF, HTML, RTF, TXT and Mobipocket. Yes, that means all 50,000 ebook titles currently available from Mobi will be accessible to the Cybook Gen3.

:wideeyed: OooOOOOooooo! (to quote Les Nesman.) That means that, since ePub is HTML-based, you can add ePub e-books to it in the future (with maybe a bit of conversion work). Nice!

Of course, you do know that Digital Editions books will be filled with this horrible thing called DRM. So good luck going DE to HTML.

if MobiPocket on the Cybook Gen3 has dictionary support, does that mean it will have hyphenation support as well?

Quick question - Palm format? .pdb?

Quick question - Palm format? .pdb?

Although I don't doubt that somewhere along the line, support for Palm .pdb and other formats will probably be worked in. I'd like to see FB2 format, and if it is *NOT* proprietary, I wonder if we can't somehow shoehorn in support for LRF. I'll have to ask.

Derek

First, of all, yippee! I plan to be one of the first buyers!

will it read .epub format out of the box?

Will it display images with the hirsc attribute? What about .jpegs?
http://www.mobipocket.com/dev/article.asp?BaseFolder=prcgen&File=images.htm

How would it fare with pdf's formatted for the Sony Reader?

Of course, you do know that Digital Editions books will be filled with this horrible thing called DRM. So good luck going DE to HTML.

They cracked .lit DRM. There's always hope that the industry at-large will give up on DRM, as many independents already have. But if Cybook will support ePub, that'll work too.

There's always hope that the industry at-large will give up on DRM, as many independents already have. :rofl:

I wonder how many people are going to get hand-me-down Sony Readers once the Cybook Gen3 comes out? I'm still waiting for my $49 Reader to come in, but I'll probably pass that on to the wife, look at getting a Cybook, and sell my eb1150. The simple fact that it'll read many formats natively is sweet!

This may have already been mentioned in this thread and I missed it, but from where will the Cybook be purchased? NAEB? Retailers? Online website? Or perhaps this hasn't been decided yet?

Can't wait to get my hands on one of these babies!!!

I was thinking of support for the format, but you are correct that in addition there would need to be a way to select words.
They might be able to provide that by using the directional control. Put the unit in "word select mode", then navigate around until the word you want is the one selected. It shouldn't be too slow (other than the screen response time... that could be pretty bad, actually.)

Well, maybe not.

This may be the wrong thread to ask but:
How fast startup time of this thing is going to be?
Anything on the real batterylife? I know Bokeen states 8000 pageturns but, well, we have had statements like that before...
Is there going to be a hibernate function?

The answers to these 3 question could well decide if this device is going to be an Iliad killer or not.

:rofl:

Yeah, yeah... but it's happening right now in the music industry, innit then?

This may be the wrong thread to ask but:
How fast startup time of this thing is going to be?
Anything on the real batterylife? I know Bokeen states 8000 pageturns but, well, we have had statements like that before...
Is there going to be a hibernate function?

The answers to these 3 question could well decide if this device is going to be an Iliad killer or not.

We are still waiting for the first hands-on reviews ;)

We can buy it from Bookeen.com:

The Cybook Gen3 has entered production and will be directly available next September from Bookeen online web store at bookeen.com

I really should read the entire press release before asking questions! :smile:

Teleread has a photo of what looks like the Cybook Gen3 in real life. Check it out here: http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=6882

Digital Editions is not yet ready for Linux. It's not yet even in beta (later this year), so you'll just have to wait for ePub to be available. None of the readers has it available yet as they all run on some flavor of Linux.

at a starting price of US $350

au prix de base de 350 € TTC sur le site Bookeen.com

350 € = $ 480.165 !!! :smack::smack::smack:

Is MobiPocket format like eReader format in that it has line spaces between paragraphs? I hope I'm wrong, because if not, that's going to make for one heck of an annoying read.

at a starting price of US $350

au prix de base de 350 € TTC sur le site Bookeen.com

350 € = $ 480.165 !!! :smack::smack::smack:

Well, you cannot blame Bookeen for the current strong EUR. But I agree, it would be nice if they went down with the price in EUR to avoid arbitrage (people buying in USD and selling in EUR).

in different packs starting at $350

What does "pack" mean? I'm guessing that $350 + ($yearly subscription) is what they mean, but without details it's sort of a meaningless price. If the barebones device and a charger can be had for $350 why not just say so?

As far as the formats go, I'm happy to see they support some open formats and a major, fairly accessible DRM format.

Hello,

It was stated that <<“On the Cybook, you don’t need to convert your files to an exotic format or upload them to any proprietary web site. You simply transfer your files directly to the device and read them natively”>>

But what file formats does it support? PDF? HTML? TXT?

I have often tons of stuff to read for work (emails, web pages, different documentation etc.) So the Cybook would be perfect it it would support a type of file easy to produce before leaving home/office and grabbing the cybook.

And in that case (PDF or other), does it have an impact on battery or something else compared to the Mobipocket™ format?

Thank you,

Dup

Hello,

It was stated that <<“On the Cybook, you don’t need to convert your files to an exotic format or upload them to any proprietary web site. You simply transfer your files directly to the device and read them natively”>>
That refers to MobiPocket which the Gen3 will support.

But what file formats does it support? PDF? HTML? TXT?

I have often tons of stuff to read for work (emails, web pages, different documentation etc.) So the Cybook would be perfect it it would support a type of file easy to produce before leaving home/office and grabbing the cybook. It supports PDF, HTML, RTF, TXT and Mobipocket. However, everything is in the details - for example does RTF reflow nicely and can the font size be changed on the device. We will have to wait for a hands on review to find out. HTML is also promising, because Plucker, .FB2, .LIT and .EPUB are all HTML-like.

I would like to have seen a few more actual (non-DRM) e-books formats (FB2, LIT, AportisDoc, ...), but these may be coming later on.

Well, you cannot blame Bookeen for the current strong EUR. But I agree, it would be nice if they went down with the price in EUR to avoid arbitrage (people buying in USD and selling in EUR).

A minor point - it's not the Euro that's strong, but the US$ that's weak. The exchange rate of the Euro against other major world currencies has been pretty much constant for the past couple of years, while the US$ has plummeted in value.

You won't be seeing *native* .LIT support. That's because .LIT requires the *highly-proprietary* litgen.dll in order to display the contents of the .LIT file. Yes, litgen.dll *is* used both in the creation and display of a .LIT file. Now ConvertLit does extract the contents of a .LIT file to HTML, but it doesn't do display. And given that Microsoft is going to want to keep its control of the .LIT format, someone's going to have to do a blackbox clone for Linux systems.

However, I'd be willing to bet that we will see Bookeen work to add support for other ebook formats such as FB2, Plucker and the like as the software is updated.

Derek

It supports PDF, HTML, RTF, TXT and Mobipocket. However, everything is in the details - for example does RTF reflow nicely and can the font size be changed on the device. We will have to wait for a hands on review to find out. HTML is also promising, because Plucker, .FB2, .LIT and .EPUB are all HTML-like.

I would like to have seen a few more actual (non-DRM) e-books formats (FB2, LIT, AportisDoc, ...), but these may be coming later on.

What does "pack" mean? I'm guessing that $350 + ($yearly subscription) is what they mean, but without details it's sort of a meaningless price. If the barebones device and a charger can be had for $350 why not just say so?

As far as the formats go, I'm happy to see they support some open formats and a major, fairly accessible DRM format.

Could you explain what you mean by a "yearly subscription"? Subscription for what?

I'm pretty certain that they simply mean that they'll sell the old CyBook in the same way they sold the old one, as a number of different "packages" with or without leather cover, spare charger, memory card, or whatever.

A minor point - it's not the Euro that's strong, but the US$ that's weak. The exchange rate of the Euro against other major world currencies has been pretty much constant for the past couple of years, while the US$ has plummeted in value.

Harry, did you recently compare the Euro to the Swiss Franc or to the Yen?

Check:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=EURCHF=X&t=2y
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=EURJPY=X&t=2y

Also this interesting article describing how French politicians and some export-oriented industries (such as EADS-Airbus) are asking for the devaluing of the Euro: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/07/17/business/euro.php

Hadn't checked that - thanks! I know, however, that the £:€ rate has been pretty constant, whereas the £:$ rate has gone from something like £1 = $1.60 to £1 = $2 in the last year or so.

You won't be seeing *native* .LIT support. That's because .LIT requires the *highly-proprietary* litgen.dll in order to display the contents of the .LIT file. Yes, litgen.dll *is* used both in the creation and display of a .LIT file. Now ConvertLit does extract the contents of a .LIT file to HTML, but it doesn't do display. I should have said OEB, rather than LIT, since ConvertLIT explodes .LIT to OEB (HTML with a .opf manifest). However, once we allow (automatic) conversion on a PC many formats are potentially supported.

Linux, Vizplex, Mobipocket. :D

I may have to get one of these for reading...

will it read .epub format out of the box?


It won't.

Hibernate mode is a good question: that's a fantastic feature on the reader, no booting time at all.

Is MobiPocket format like eReader format in that it has line spaces between paragraphs? I hope I'm wrong, because if not, that's going to make for one heck of an annoying read.

That depends on the publisher, and how they write their HTML. If you want to play with it yourself, you can download MobiPocket eBook Reader for your PC, and MobiPocket eBook Creator on this page:
http://www.mobipocket.com/en/DownloadSoft/default.asp?Language=EN

Yes, you can import DOC, RTF, and TXT files into Creator, but before it can create the MobiPocket PRC file it has to first convert them to HTML, so that's the true basis for MobiPocket files. The default is to put spaces between paragraphs, and I prefer it myself, but you can write the HTML code so that there are no spaces between them.

Steve P

It supports PDF, HTML, RTF, TXT and Mobipocket. However, everything is in the details - for example does RTF reflow nicely and can the font size be changed on the device. We will have to wait for a hands on review to find out. HTML is also promising, because Plucker, .FB2, .LIT and .EPUB are all HTML-like.
Plucker, FB2, LIT, and ePub are nOT HTML and not close enough. So sorry, HTML support will NOT read them.

The questions are will the RTF reader display graphics and allow links/bookmarks? Will the PDF reader allow pan and zoom or is it as useless as it is on the Sony Reader for most PDF?

That depends on the publisher, and how they write their HTML. If you want to play with it yourself, you can download MobiPocket eBook Reader for your PC, and MobiPocket eBook Creator on this page:
http://www.mobipocket.com/en/DownloadSoft/default.asp?Language=EN

Yes, you can import DOC, RTF, and TXT files into Creator, but before it can create the MobiPocket PRC file it has to first convert them to HTML, so that's the true basis for MobiPocket files. The default is to put spaces between paragraphs, and I prefer it myself, but you can write the HTML code so that there are no spaces between them.

Steve P
Yes, I think most commercial MobiPocket books have the line space since MobiPocket was originally for PDA type devices which have much smaller screens. I wish they'd create a version of MobiPocket that allows you to get rid of the line spacing. On a larger device such as the iLiad or Gen3, it's going to be rather annoying.

MobiPocket, ARE you listening?

Yes, I think most commercial MobiPocket books have the line space since MobiPocket was originally for PDA type devices which have much smaller screens. I wish they'd create a version of MobiPocket that allows you to get rid of the line spacing. On a larger device such as the iLiad or Gen3, it's going to be rather annoying.

MobiPocket, ARE you listening?

I don't link blank lines either: doesn't look like a real book.
What we need is indenting instead of blank lines.

I don't link blank lines either: doesn't look like a real book.
What we need is indenting instead of blank lines.
It's ok if you are reading on a small screen, but the new e-ink screen are alltoo large to be classed as small and what worked on a PDA no longer works.

Well, you cannot blame Bookeen for the current strong EUR. But I agree, it would be nice if they went down with the price in EUR to avoid arbitrage (people buying in USD and selling in EUR).
350Euro/$ is the price exclusive VAT, no doubt.
Not sure how that will reflect to the full price in all the different countries around the world so I hope someone has a better understanding of all these things, Im very interested in any views on the possible nonsense that follows :-)
From my little experience in this area I think that :
1) People in France will have to add VAT to that price but they will pay little for shipping and no importing rights.
2) People elsewhere will pay extra for shipping and importing rights
3) people living in the EC will benefit from the Schengen deal, those outside will not.
Ironically I think those that will be worst off will be those outside EC and outside the VS, they might not even get access to the device because it's really not all that high-tech a device and therefor pricepoint is definately important.

From my little experience in this area I think that :
1) People in France will have to add VAT to that price but they will pay little for shipping and no importing rights.
2) People elsewhere will pay extra for shipping and importing rights
3) people living in the EC will benefit from the Schengen deal, those outside will not.
Ironically I think those that will be worst off will be those outside EC and outside the VS, they might not even get access to the device because it's really not all that high-tech a device and therefor pricepoint is definately important.

That's not entirely correct. If you are selling a product within the European Union, you have to charge your own local VAT rate to all customers within the EU. Everyone in the EU will, therefore, be charged the French VAT rate of 19.6% (but will not have to pay any import duty). Customers outside the EU will not be charged VAT, but will have to pay the appropriate local taxes when they take delivery of the product.

Whether you are "better" or "worse" off being outside the EU therefore depends on whether your local taxes are higher or lower than the French VAT rate of 19.6%.

Could you explain what you mean by a "yearly subscription"? Subscription for what?

I'm pretty certain that they simply mean that they'll sell the old CyBook in the same way they sold the old one, as a number of different "packages" with or without leather cover, spare charger, memory card, or whatever.

I hope you're right -- by "subscription" I meant a book-club like fee that would be required to get the reader hardware at a reduced price. For example, sign up for a one year, $6/mo club subscription and you'll get the reader for $350, but without the subscription its $450 (or whatever). I'd be much more inclined to purchase a device at that price WITHOUT a subscription.

I hope you're right -- by "subscription" I meant a book-club like fee that would be required to get the reader hardware at a reduced price. For example, sign up for a one year, $6/mo club subscription and you'll get the reader for $350, but without the subscription its $450 (or whatever). I'd be much more inclined to purchase a device at that price WITHOUT a subscription.

I've never heard of an arrangement like that! I very much doubt that will be the case. Bookeen have already announced that the CyBook will be available in "basic" and "deluxe" packages - the latter including a charger and a leather cover.

You can find an interview with Michael and Laurent the 'Bookeen' guys here (http://billaut.typepad.com/jm/2007/07/connaissez-vo-6.html)

It's in French of course but even if you don't speak it, you might find it worth looking at for the (unfortunately brief) demo of the screen. It does seem to change pages pretty quickly, at the press of a button.

The price is 350 euros TTC ie including VAT. So $350 give or take. It willl be sold direct from the Bookeen site, though they have distributers ib Spaion and italy.

No support for pdfs to start with but the interview seemed to suggest that it is in the pipeline. I wasn't quite sure whether this is because they are trying to find a way to get the text to reflow. (I'd be happy with pocketXpdf for the minute!).

Oh and it will support zipped/compressed files.

You can find an interview with Michael and Laurent the 'Bookeen' guys here (http://billaut.typepad.com/jm/2007/07/connaissez-vo-6.html)

It's in French of course but even if you don't speak it, you might find it worth looking at for the (unfortunately brief) demo of the screen. It does seem to change pages pretty quickly, at the press of a button.

The price is 350 euros TTC ie including VAT. So $350 give or take. It willl be sold direct from the Bookeen site, though they have distributers ib Spaion and italy.

No support for pdfs to start with but the interview seemed to suggest that it is in the pipeline. I wasn't quite sure whether this is because they are trying to find a way to get the text to reflow. (I'd be happy with pocketXpdf for the minute!).

Oh and it will support zipped/compressed files.

The refresh time is impressive indeed. This is pretty old (1 month old) though, they're still talking about a July release in this video. Now that the release is in September, they get some extra time to tweak up the software and maybe add a few features (PDF support for example). Last time I tried a Mobipocket file on the iLiad, the typesetting wasn't any good, I hope it'll be better on this device (it was maybe related to the file itself and not Mobipocket support on the device).

It's a shame that Mobipocket can't provide a mobigen for linux, if they really want to extend the support for their format, such an app is desperately needed.

I've never heard of an arrangement like that! I very much doubt that will be the case. Bookeen have already announced that the CyBook will be available in "basic" and "deluxe" packages - the latter including a charger and a leather cover.
So the basic version doesn't have a charger or any sort of cover?

So the basic version doesn't have a charger or any sort of cover?

That would appear to be the situation. USB charging only. I don't know whether the basic package will include a cheaper cover, but the "deluxe" package will include a leather cover.

That would appear to be the situation. USB charging only.

Ah well, usb charging is allready one step up from the Iliad.
Zipped file support means that .cbr comics/manga will be no problem.
So, thats 2 steps up.
fast pageturn is step nimber 3.

Now all we need is a really, really decent batterylife and suspend mode. :pray:

Ah well, usb charging is allready one step up from the Iliad.
Zipped file support means that .cbr comics/manga will be no problem.
So, thats 2 steps up.
fast pageturn is step nimber 3.

Now all we need is a really, really decent batterylife and suspend mode. :pray:
But, the iLiad has a higher resolution and 16 shades. So it's still one up from anything else.

Now all we need is a really, really decent batterylife and suspend mode. :pray:

What do you mean by a "suspend mode", as a matter of interest?

With the Sony Reader, the machine never turns off - all the "off" button does is disable the screen and most of the buttons - so you turn it on and it's available for instant use. Do you mean that you'd like to see a real way of turning the machine off, so you'd increase the battery life at the expense of a longer start-up time?

I prefer the "instant use" of the Reader, personally. OK, the machine's battery goes flat after about 3-4 weeks, whether it's used or not, (because the operating system is always running) but I can live with that.

I am so glad I stumbled onto this forum. I almost went out and purchased a Sony, but once I received the email from Bookeen I decided to wait and see what all the talk was about.
Unfortunately I have still been using an old Hiebook reader, but it works and I can read my books while traveling. Reading this forum has helped me make a decision into which one to buy. I don't like being told where to buy my books in order for them to work on a device. I think I can wait until September and still use my PC and Hiebook.
Thanks for all the information!

Laurie

Welcome to MobileRead Laurie. I hope the Cybook will be everything you imagine it to be. The Sony is a nice device, but I do feel that BBeB format is a highly restrictive format as far as widespread ease of purchasing books. MobiPocket will make a wider range of books available to you in DRM format then the Sony has. Plus the new Vizplex screen should be nice.

Thanks for the welcome. I read so much I have already burned through 3 Hiebooks over the years. I can't imagine traveling with paper books any more. When the Bookeen announcement came out, I was a little unsure of the date it would be available since they wrote "next" September. I also don't like the look of the Amazon Kindle and have a feeling you would only be able to buy from Amazon to read on it.
It will be nice to have a better screen to read with so I can't wait to see this new device.

Laurie

What do you mean by a "suspend mode", as a matter of interest?

With the Sony Reader, the machine never turns off - all the "off" button does is disable the screen and most of the buttons - so you turn it on and it's available for instant use. Do you mean that you'd like to see a real way of turning the machine off, so you'd increase the battery life at the expense of a longer start-up time?

I prefer the "instant use" of the Reader, personally. OK, the machine's battery goes flat after about 3-4 weeks, whether it's used or not, (because the operating system is always running) but I can live with that.

Right...your battery goes flat after 3 to 4 weeks but you can live with that and on top of that you have instant use.
I need to sit down now and have a strong cup of cofee.
You lucky ^#%*!! ;) ( please note the smiley)

My Iliad can only be switched on or off completely, no instant use, has a battery life of just about 5 hours and has a startup time of at least 1 minute.
As you can understand I would absolutely love a suspend mode or as you call it "the machine never turns off".

But, the iLiad has a higher resolution and 16 shades. So it's still one up from anything else.

Those 16 shades of grey do not impress me too much.
I use my ebook readers mostly for..well, reading.
With older ebook readers such as Hiebook (filthy green when backlit) and Rocket Ebook I never missed those greyshades.
The first Cybook ofcourse had colour but I never used that much.

The higher resolution is also not something I think I'll miss.

@High5: Your 5 hours on the iLiad are not normal. It should be at least around 10.

Though i have to say, just for reading, i will probably like it. I have to get me one of those. It lighter, lasts longer, and if it can do PDF, its very interesting, even if the screen is smaller.

The Sony does PDF. Poorly, but it does it. Unless the Gen3 has pan & zoom, then it's PDF display won't be any better then the Sony.

The Sony does PDF. Poorly, but it does it. Unless the Gen3 has pan & zoom, then it's PDF display won't be any better then the Sony.

I don't really mind. I'm used to reading PDF files that are generated for the Sony PRS-500. I've tried using LRF too, but I like PDF better. The lack of hyphenation and of a proper justified text are enough reasons for me to read using PDF instead of LRF. I don't need to change the size of the text either once I've selected the right font & size for my device.

I don't really mind. I'm used to reading PDF files that are generated for the Sony PRS-500.

Unfortunately when most people say "PDF" what they actually mean is "A4/Letter PDF" which, as you know, cannot sensibly be displayed on a screen 1/6th the area of an A4 screen.

And we have heard no word on how the Gen3 will handle PDF that is US letter sized.

Unfortunately when most people say "PDF" what they actually mean is "A4/Letter PDF" which, as you know, cannot sensibly be displayed on a screen 1/6th the area of an A4 screen.

It depends. Some PDF can. You can generate reflowable PDF too, although it's not supported on the Sony Reader. A simple support for this feature would be even better than pan/zoom.

Hei,
Do you guys know if there is an ebook reader which supports DJVU file format?
If not is there anyway of making DJVU to work on an ebook?

Hei,
Do you guys know if there is an ebook reader which supports DJVU file format?
If not is there anyway of making DJVU to work on an ebook?

Well, it's off-topic; but you may want to look at the iRex iLiad. Scotty created a DJVU Viewer for it based on Java: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10813

Hei,
I found a way to convert DJVU to PDF! HIHI I am so happy! now I want my hands on the Cybook. What do you guys think? Is the Cybook a good choice? I want my math books on it.

Hei,
I found a way to convert DJVU to PDF! HIHI I am so happy! now I want my hands on the Cybook. What do you guys think? Is the Cybook a good choice? I want my math books on it.
Why would you want PDF? For all we know, PDF support might be as poor as it is on the Sony Reader. Do you want to take that risk? PDF for books is a really bad idea. No reflowing of text, no font size changes. For a portable reader, reading books in PDF just doesn't work well enough. The solution to the problem would have been to just not have PDF support at all.

Why would you want PDF? For all we know, PDF support might be as poor as it is on the Sony Reader. Do you want to take that risk? PDF for books is a really bad idea. No reflowing of text, no font size changes. For a portable reader, reading books in PDF just doesn't work well enough. The solution to the problem would have been to just not have PDF support at all.

Maybe in your case: not in mine. The flow of the text, and the fact that you can have both more advanced formatting and hyphenation are enough reasons for me to use PDF.

Maybe you don't need a text with "justify" done the right way, hyphenation, real footnotes and good looking chapter headings. But that's not the case for everyone.

Not using PDF, and asking for lack of PDF support are 2 VERY different things.

Maybe in your case: not in mine. The flow of the text, and the fact that you can have both more advanced formatting and hyphenation are enough reasons for me to use PDF.

Maybe you don't need a text with "justify" done the right way, hyphenation, real footnotes and good looking chapter headings. But that's not the case for everyone.

Not using PDF, and asking for lack of PDF support are 2 VERY different things.
The problem is most people see that the Sony supports PDF. And they think great, I can read these PDF files I have. And then they try to read these letter sized PDF and it turns out to be too small. Most people won't know who to deal with them to make them readable. They won't know how to create PDF that fits. PDF support is a joke. They left out pan and zoom which is what's needed to read a larger sized document on a smaller screen. In other words, SONY DROPPED THE BALL!

Anyone know if they are going to take pre-orders for the Cybook? It is August 1st. This baby is going on sale in another month! Woot! :D

Two months - they said "end of September" :).

The problem is most people see that the Sony supports PDF. And they think great, I can read these PDF files I have. And then they try to read these letter sized PDF and it turns out to be too small. Most people won't know who to deal with them to make them readable. They won't know how to create PDF that fits. PDF support is a joke. They left out pan and zoom which is what's needed to read a larger sized document on a smaller screen. In other words, SONY DROPPED THE BALL!

Don't pan and zoom really imply scrolling? You really can't scroll in any sensible manner on an eInk screen.

The iLiad supports pan and zoom. E ink can handle scrolling, just not "live" scrolling (for lack of a better term).

It would be nice to have a zoom wide in landscape mode on the Sony. Then use the page up/down to navigate. Might make it good enough.

When is the exact release date? Love to get one.

Does anyone know if there are other kinds of format, beside MobiPocket's format and Sony's proprietary format, that are widely used? It seems that Iliad and Booken are following the MobiPocket's format, are there other kinds of format?

There are other formats. eReader is one other popular portable format that's used a lot on PDAs.

One of the nicest things about eBook standards is that there are so many to choose from :).

One of the nicest things about eBook standards is that there are so many to choose from :).

Yeah, since there are so many folks who claim to have created the standard for e-books :unafraid: ;)

With music its easy. You just have to be able to listen to it. With books there are soooo many variables. Screensizes, fonts, special designs, chapters, parts and other structures, bookmarks, annotations, multimedia and lots more.

I hope there will be something that can call itself a real standard in te near future. the basic parts from the idpf standards are all quite well. But there is still some structural standard for bookcontent missing.

With music its easy. You just have to be able to listen to it. With books there are soooo many variables. Screensizes, fonts, special designs, chapters, parts and other structures, bookmarks, annotations, multimedia and lots more.

I hope there will be something that can call itself a real standard in the near future. the basic parts from the idpf standards are all quite well. But there is still some structural standard for bookcontent missing.

I agree. We've limited this structural standard on Feedbooks to a few elements, but the real problem here is that the same standard could be use for all sorts of contents, not just fiction, but also non-fiction. Books but also newspapers etc...

Hello all - I'm a first-timer who's benefited greatly from the discussion so far. Thanks. I'm certainly hot to have a Gen3, though experience in the Tech world makes me suspect that the actual date will slip from September.

My planned use for the Gen3 would be for reading Project Guttenberg fiction. I know that it comes in a variety of formats, with txt being the most universal. Does anyone know which will be best for the Gen3, or do I just have to wait until review versions are out there?

Similarly, are there any gotchas that I should beware given my desired use?

Thanks

Jim Mitchell

Hello all - I'm a first-timer who's benefited greatly from the discussion so far. Thanks. I'm certainly hot to have a Gen3, though experience in the Tech world makes me suspect that the actual date will slip from September.

My planned use for the Gen3 would be for reading Project Guttenberg fiction. I know that it comes in a variety of formats, with txt being the most universal. Does anyone know which will be best for the Gen3, or do I just have to wait until review versions are out there?

Similarly, are there any gotchas that I should beware given my desired use?

Thanks

Jim Mitchell

Txt will work but Gutenberg files are full of _ for italics, * for bolds etc...

You can find Gutenberg books formatted in a much better way on this forum (mostly LRF files, for the Sony Reader) or on Feedbooks: http://www.feedbooks.com/discover

Manybooks also provide a more basic conversion of these books with many different format output: http://www.manybooks.net

Txt will work but Gutenberg files are full of _ for italics, * for bolds etc...


Most PG books posted in the last couple of years have also been posted in HTML format with "proper" bold, italics, etc. If an HTML format is available, it can either be viewed directly, or at least used as a much better starting point for conversion to a format such as MobiPocket.

Most PG books posted in the last couple of years have also been posted in HTML format with "proper" bold, italics, etc. If an HTML format is available, it can either be viewed directly, or at least used as a much better starting point for conversion to a format such as MobiPocket.

Yes and you also get real footnotes with these too. But most of the time, there's no HTML version for it on Gutenberg :-/

My planned use for the Gen3 would be for reading Project Guttenberg fiction. I know that it comes in a variety of formats, with txt being the most universal. Does anyone know which will be best for the Gen3, or do I just have to wait until review versions are out there?

Similarly, are there any gotchas that I should beware given my desired use?

Thanks

Jim Mitchell

Hi Jim.

Same here.

As soon as the device can read *.txt you can read all PG's etexts. If it reads *.rtf, I plan to convert the files (as I do today for printing). I use MS Word and it's quite simple to replace all _italics_ and +bold+ conventions, to justify the text and even to replace -- with endashes (all automagically done in 10 seconds using a MS Word macro). There's a problem however, some older etexts use ALL CAPS as a convention for italic and bold.
Most newly added etexts also have an HTML version so if the device reads *.html... I see no problem.
Manybooks at http://www.manybooks.net converts PG etexts to many formats (including *.rtf). I prefer making my own *.rtf, though.

Yes and you also get real footnotes with these too. But most of the time, there's no HTML version for it on Gutenberg :-/
Indeed. The *.html versions are mainly done these days by Distributed Proofreaders' post-processors when they produce the basic *.txt version.
The reason why not ALL PG's etexts are made available in *.html is that not all producers are comfortable with this language. And remember, all PG's ebooks are produced by ordinary volunteers without any particular skills in markup languages.
If any of you knows HTML and is willing to make such versions, please do _do_ help us!

Indeed. The *.html versions are mainly done these days by Distributed Proofreaders' post-processors when they produce the basic *.txt version.

Digital Proofreader's doing a great job by the way. Not a single OCR mistake thanks to this system compared to older materials.

Another great idea for OCR: http://recaptcha.net/

I'll add it on Feedbooks this month.

Distributed Proofreader's doing a great job by the way. Not a single OCR mistake thanks to this system compared to older materials.

One or two OCR mistakes still miss us. One of the reasons I want an e-reading device so bad is for smooth-reading the final files and hunt down those OCR mistakes that still miss us. I
If Sony PRS was not sold in the US only they'd have a consumer for a long time now. That's why I'm so anxious to see Cybook Gen3.

There are lots of us outside the US who have Sony Readers - they are easy to get hold of. Several companies who sell them ship internationally, and you can also buy them from eBay, etc (that's how I bought mine).

One or two OCR mistakes still miss us. One of the reasons I want an e-reading device so bad is for smooth-reading the final files and hunt down those OCR mistakes that still miss us. I
If Sony PRS was not sold in the US only they'd have a consumer for a long time now. That's why I'm so anxious to see Cybook Gen3.

But for proofreading a text, some form of input would be better I guess. You could use bookmarks and mark the pages with an OCR mistake though.

But for proofreading a text, some form of input would be better I guess. You could use bookmarks and mark the pages with an OCR mistake though.
Although I don't plan to do deep proofreading, a stylus would be great for underlining the mistakes so that I could then correct them in my PC. From what I've seen, iLiad would be the best bet but it'd cost the double of Cybook, and I don't want to pay extra 300 euros just for having a stylus.
I'm also trying to get all the info I can get on Hanlin v8 and Walkbook but -- I'm not sure why -- they don't give me much trust.
With a Sony or a Cybook I'd have to take with me an ordinary pen and a piece of paper to write down those OCR "mystakos" so that I could next search and replace them in my computer. (That wouldn't be too serious I guess.)
In the Sony vs Cybook arena I'd prefer Cybook for the fast turning pages and because it's commercialized in the EU and it has to apply to the EU directives in what concerns warranties (2 year warranty), etc. That's why I don't want to buy Sony from a US dealer or at Ebay... lot's of money with limited legal warranties.

With a Sony or a Cybook I'd have to take with me an ordinary pen and a piece of paper to write down those OCR "mystakos" so that I could next search and replace them in my computer. (That wouldn't be too serious I guess.)


What I do myself is to "bookmark" the page on which the error occurs. When I've finished the book, I go through all the bookmarks and correct the errors in the source.

In the Sony vs Cybook arena I'd prefer Cybook for the fast turning pages

I honesty don't believe that's an issue. Certainly it's faster, but the 1s (or whatever) it takes to turn the page on the Sony is something that you don't even notice.

and because it's commercialized in the EU and it has to apply to the EU directives in what concerns warranties (2 year warranty), etc. That's why I don't want to buy Sony from a US dealer or at Ebay... lot's of money with limited legal warranties.

That's certainly a good reason, I agree. Sony have said that the Reader will be launched in the UK (and probably the rest of Europe too) by the end of the year.

I also bookmark the page if I find an error or a suspected error. Then I go back later when I am at my computer and reread the bookmarked page(s) and make any corrections. Granted you cannot mark the specific error, but you can save the entire page for correcting the error.

Hei,
Jswolf you were negative to the use of pdf. Which format would you rather use? The thing is that I have many important math books in pdf format and I intend to use the cybook to carry them with me, since all of the books are well over 300 pages each. Has anyone used math books on their e-readers, whats the experience?
Which format should one convert his books to from pdf?
Personally I hope that Cybook will manage pdf just fine, because there are alot of Prof and students who would love to use it, without any hassle!

The problem is that PDF is a terrible format for eBooks - that's not what it was designed for, and not what it's good for.

The fundamental issue is that a PDF file is formatted for a specific page size, and (unlike "real" eBook formats) cannot "reflow" to accommodate other page sizes. An A4 PDF is "stuck" at A4, and can only sensibly be viewed on an A4 screen (or printed, which is what the format was originally intended to be used for, of course).

To view a PDF on a small screen, such as the Sony Reader, or CyBook, you have only two choices: shrink the PDF page to fit the screen of the device, or provide a way of "panning" a viewing window over the PDF page. Neither of these provides a very satisfactory experience.

What formats are better? Practically everything, to be honest. MobiPocket on the CyBook or LRF on the Sony Reader, to name but two. Anything is better than PDF as an eBook format.

There is, I should add, a recent variant of PDF which allows pages to reflow, but very few portable devices support it, and even fewer PDF documents support reflow.

If you create a PDF specifically for the page size of the reader, that's a different matter, and works very well indeed (this is what the Feedbooks (http://www.feedbooks.com) web site does, for example). The problem occurs when you try to view A4 or US Letter PDFs on a device such as the Reader or the CyBook, which have only 1/6th the screen area that the document was designed to be viewed with.

Well something is actually intriguing me. In the video (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12519) when they talk about PDF (4:00m), one of the managers seems to say "There won't be PDF in the 1st version of the product" (4:55m). Is there any French native speaker that may help us understanding what they say? Both managers seem to get really uncomfortable when talking about PDF.

Unless you can't change the text size. Currently the text size on Feedbooks PDFs are just too large for me; and I think I'd much rather have these files as .lrf instead.

Unless you can't change the text size. Currently the text size on Feedbooks PDFs are just too large for me; and I think I'd much rather have these files as .lrf instead.

You can change the font size, the font itself and the margins.
Just press "http://www.feedbooks.com/images/site/wrench.pngCustom settings" when you're on the page of the book, set the right size for you and then, you can use the "Custom PDF" link on the page for every book.

Merci bien de votre aide!

Regarding PDF vs. other formats, what about for math books, as levirothschild is asking? HTML doesn't provide good formatting tools for equations. Does Mobipocket or LRF? For this kind of content, LaTex to PDF for the particular unit (i.e. the Feedbooks approach) might be the best way to go for now.

Does anyone know how well Digital Editions is supposed to handle mathematical formulae?

Equations would have to be displayed as graphics, but that's basically what's happening in a PDF - the PDF interpreter is rendering equations graphically.

Regarding PDF vs. other formats, what about for math books, as levirothschild is asking? HTML doesn't provide good formatting tools for equations. Does Mobipocket or LRF? For this kind of content, LaTex to PDF for the particular unit (i.e. the Feedbooks approach) might be the best way to go for now.

Does anyone know how well Digital Editions is supposed to handle mathematical formulae?
Digital Editions will be no better or worse then MobiPocket or BBeB. It's just another way to display the same thing.

And harry is correct. The mathematical formulas would work fine displayed as graphics. It's the only way to make sure they come out as they should.

Digital Editions will be no better or worse then MobiPocket or BBeB. It's just another way to display the same thing.

And harry is correct. The mathematical formulas would work fine displayed as graphics. It's the only way to make sure they come out as they should.

Maybe for maths but overall, Epub support more advanced features.

Equations would have to be displayed as graphics, but that's basically what's happening in a PDF - the PDF interpreter is rendering equations graphically.
Is this true? If you zoom in on a PDF file with equations, don't you get a higher resolution? I suppose it could be a vector graphic instead of a raster graphic...

Is this true? If you zoom in on a PDF file with equations, don't you get a higher resolution? I suppose it could be a vector graphic instead of a raster graphic...

That's right, yes, a PDF interpreter does vector graphics.

Most (perhaps most) PDF textbooks, however, use scanned images for their illustrations, not vector graphics.

In the interview there was a part about PDF , actually PDF size : the Cybook is too small to display A4 PDF comfortably because of its size but it will support PDF.
What they said was that they are planning to release another eReader next year for Business users that will be bigger and therefor will be able to display A4 size PDF's easily unlike all the currently available eReaders.

Many of us are craving for a device that is good for A4 PDF reading so I hope they will release more details about that device soon.
A4 PDF reading people appear to be a niche market, IMHO I think it's a huge niche so it's about time someone came out with a reader like that.
That said, I think Im gonna buy both a Cybook Gen3 and a Cybook Gen3 A4 ;-)

It's good to hear that they're being "up front" about the fact that you can't sensibly read A4 PDFs on a 120x90mm screen. Sony could learn a lesson from that!

Totally agree with you that there's a market for A4 devices. I wouldn't buy one, but I know people who would.

That's right, yes, a PDF interpreter does vector graphics.

Most (perhaps most) PDF textbooks, however, use scanned images for their illustrations, not vector graphics.
But I'm not talking about illustrations, I'm talking about equations. I typeset mine with LaTex, and output to PDF. I didn't think they were being displayed as graphics in the resulting PDF file, though I suppose they could be. I guess I was basing my assumptions on what I know about postscript code. Does PDF not have typesetting structures, then? (I guess I could try saving a PDF file with equations out as some other kind of text and see what I get.)

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that basically everything in a PDF document is displayed "graphically". The PDF interpreter changes everything into a set of drawing instructions which are then "executed" by the print or display engine.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that basically everything in a PDF document is displayed "graphically".
You need to be more precise when using "graphics", like nokokami said in her previous post (vector graphic or raster graphic).

Anyway, I also think that equations are set of vector graphics commands.

I have an appointment with the bookeen team in two weeks, I'll try
to take photos and tell you if the gen3 has all the great features of
the reader!

I have an appointment with the bookeen team in two weeks, I'll try to take photos and tell you if the gen3 has all the great features of the reader!
Thank you. That will be nice to have more info on the Gen3.

Guguy could you please take a photo of how a pdf look likes on a Cybook? In Norway there aren`t any ebook devices available for sale in the stores, so I don`t have the chance to look for my self.

I have an appointment with the bookeen team in two weeks, I'll try
to take photos and tell you if the gen3 has all the great features of
the reader!

Photos would be great! :knuddel:

guguy, feel free to message me if you need any assistance in posting them.

great! :2thumbsup

(...and maybe a short film on screen refresh and handling...)

:popcorn:

According to Bookeen, the Gen3 won't be coming out with PDF support. That's not to say they won't be adding it in with a version of Digital Editions. But for now, it's a no go.

Jon,

I think you've misunderstood the French in the video. They do not say that PDF will not be supported; they say that (as we know) you can't properly display an A4/Letter PDF on a screen that small, and that they will be releasing another machine later with a larger screen which will be able to display such PDFs correctly.

Since I have the Sony. I'll wait and see about this new one with a larger screen.

Jon,

I think you've misunderstood the French in the video. They do not say that PDF will not be supported; they say that (as we know) you can't properly display an A4/Letter PDF on a screen that small, and that they will be releasing another machine later with a larger screen which will be able to display such PDFs correctly.

Yes, they said that the initial software won't support PDF (this video is quite old though, they're still announcing a release date for July), but that PDF will be supported in the future.

If you have any trouble with an interview in french (Bookeen, Nemoptic or Mobipocket), please remember that there's a few french guys on this forum. We can help ;-)

Yes, they said that the initial software won't support PDF (this video is quite old though, they're still announcing a release date for July), but that PDF will be supported in the future.

If you have any trouble with an interview in french (Bookeen, Nemoptic or Mobipocket), please remember that there's a few french guys on this forum. We can help ;-)
In that case, mind dubbing an English track over the French track?

In that case, mind dubbing an English track over the French track?

It might take some time but ok... any good web app for dubbing videos ?

Actually, what I'd like to see is a video with up-to-date info now that we know some of the info before is obsolete and there might be new info.

If you have any trouble with an interview in french (Bookeen, Nemoptic or Mobipocket), please remember that there's a few french guys on this forum. We can help ;-)

None of them seemed to notice when I pointed that out in a previous post (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=85377&postcount=109) of mine. :smash:

None of them seemed to notice when I pointed that out in a previous post (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=85377&postcount=109) of mine. :smash:

Well you can PM or e-mail me for example next time. I don't read 100% of the messages, so I may miss a few.

Actually, what I'd like to see is a video with up-to-date info now that we know some of the info before is obsolete and there might be new info.

When they will have managed to add reasonable PDF-support, I think they would ad once inform about that, because it is something people seem to constantly ask about. :)

That's right, yes, a PDF interpreter does vector graphics.

Most (perhaps most) PDF textbooks, however, use scanned images for their illustrations, not vector graphics.

I think that today, TeX has become almost a standard in electronic typeset involving mathematic symbols, so high quality vector graphics shouldn't constitute a problem with textbooks using some mathematic symbols.

None of them seemed to notice when I pointed that out in a previous post (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=85377&postcount=109) of mine. :smash:

That's because you only read direct replies to your own posts, on 08-05-2007 I translated that part for you. Here it is, again ! :D

In the interview there was a part about PDF , actually PDF size : the Cybook is too small to display A4 PDF comfortably because of its size but it will support PDF.
What they said was that they are planning to release another eReader next year for Business users that will be bigger and therefor will be able to display A4 size PDF's easily unlike all the currently available eReaders.

Many of us are craving for a device that is good for A4 PDF reading so I hope they will release more details about that device soon.
A4 PDF reading people appear to be a niche market, IMHO I think it's a huge niche so it's about time someone came out with a reader like that.
That said, I think Im gonna buy both a Cybook Gen3 and a Cybook Gen3 A4 ;-)

Many of us are craving for a device that is good for A4 PDF reading so I hope they will release more details about that device soon.
A4 PDF reading people appear to be a niche market, IMHO I think it's a huge niche so it's about time someone came out with a reader like that.
That said, I think Im gonna buy both a Cybook Gen3 and a Cybook Gen3 A4 ;-)

Most of the cost of an eInk Reader is the screen. Let's suppose that $250 of the price of the CyBook is the screen. The cost of a screen will be proportional to its area, therefore we can assume that, in today's prices, an A4 screen will cost about 6x as much as the current CyBook's screen.

Would you really be willing to pay $1500+ for an A4 CyBook?

An A4 device has also the problem of being too big. Such devices are for men and real men have a limited choice of bags to carry gadgets.

Maybe the plastic logic displays will offer a better way of A4 formats.

Maybe the plastic logic displays will offer a better way of A4 formats.

I believe so. A4 for non-flexible screen will be too large. But if we could have an A4 device that could be folded in A5...

What they said was that they are planning to release another eReader next year for Business users that will be bigger and therefor will be able to display A4 size PDF's easily unlike all the currently available eReaders.

A4 PDF reading people appear to be a niche market, IMHO I think it's a huge niche so it's about time someone came out with a reader like that.
That is excellent news, kleykenb! I've been on the lookout for such thing for some time.

Would you really be willing to pay $1500+ for an A4 CyBook?:shrug: To my mind, we're talking about a business appliance, different pricing rules apply to a professional environment. Think about the original laptops ... or PC's for that matter. They were so stinkin' pricey that the only folks who bought them were businesses. And if they hadn't, then the 'economies of scale' would never have kicked in and driven the prices down so that 'normal' folks could afford them. Which is another point. If businesses started buying e-ink devices in large quantities, we'd probably see a cost drop on the displays relatively quickly. :shrug:

An A4 device has also the problem of being too big. Such devices are for men and real men have a limited choice of bags to carry gadgets.But if it's mainly a professional device, then you'll probably have your briefcase/briefcase analog with you when you're carrying this A4 monster about. It ought to fit in there nicely. :grin:

But if it's mainly a professional device, then you'll probably have your briefcase/briefcase analog with you when you're carrying this A4 monster about. I don't think Bookeen is implying the display size will be A4. Vizplex is advertising 8" (like ILiad) and 9.7" diagonal displays.

Fair enough, but I want an A4 display sized device. :grin:

I don't think Bookeen is implying the display size will be A4. Vizplex is advertising 8" (like ILiad) and 9.7" diagonal displays.
Any idea on the resolution?

9.7" is 1200 x 825 and 8" is 1024 x 768, see E-INK High Resolution Active Matrix Displays (http://www.eink.com/products/matrix/High_Res.html). It isn't clear when these will be available, see Anouncement Hanlin V9 (DIN A4 E-Bookreader) (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9550).

Has anyone heard anything about actual dates and lead times for purchase in Sept? Also what kind of price for the deluxe version?:blink:

I see that the shipping date of the Hanlin V9 (which uses the same screen supplier as the CyBook) has slipped to "end of the year or beyond". I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the same thing happen to the CyBook, unfortunately - they are completely dependent on external suppliers.

I have not seen confirmation, but I assume the Hanlin V3 is using a 6" Vizplex screen like the Cybook. If so, the 6" screen (with 4-way greyscale controller) is available now, but the larger screens are delayed. The Hanlin V9 with 10" screen is advertised as 4-way greyscale, but I was under the impression that the large screens need the new metronome (http://www.eink.com/products/matrix/metronome.html) display controller with 8-way greyscale capability.

Only time will tell. Unfortunately Bookeen are completely dependent upon their supplier. If their timescales slip, so does delivery of the CyBook. We'll just have to wait and see.

Most of the cost of an eInk Reader is the screen. Let's suppose that $250 of the price of the CyBook is the screen. The cost of a screen will be proportional to its area, therefore we can assume that, in today's prices, an A4 screen will cost about 6x as much as the current CyBook's screen.

Would you really be willing to pay $1500+ for an A4 CyBook?

Yes I would be prepared to pay that price, especially if it had a decent note taking application. I love my Iliad for reading novels, it is even good to some extent when combined with My Script for note taking. However I really need a device that is A4 in size to allow effective reading of PDFS for work (the iliad is acceptable for this, but not ideal). I also want a device on which I can write notes when out conducting field work interviews which would then be able to convert those handwritten notes to text, again the Iliad has some capability, however I find the screen too small for comfort. The time savings of such a device would be well worth the expense to me.

Have you considered an A4-format Tablet PC? It would seem to meet all your needs admirably.

Not quite all my requirements. I love the E ink display and th e resulting lack of eye strain. But it is a solution worth considering, also not sure if it would allow writing direct to screen. The iliad really does meet my needs if it was produced in an A4 version. Oh and I should add that the other issue is that anything I take on home visits needs to not look to inviting for theft :) I do work in dodgy environments.

Yes, you can write directly onto the screen of a Tablet PC. They all use the same Wacom stylus technology that the iLiad uses and, because it's an LCD screen, there's none of the "time lag" you get on the iLiad when writing - it's much more responsive.

The downside is the battery life of course - typically around half that of the iLiad.

I am about to trial a Pegasus Mini Note taker which also uses My Script to convert hand writing to text. This device attaches to a regular note pad and uses a digital pen with actual ink. but it means yet another device to add to my bulging work bag, which already raises the suspicion of security when I enter court. Generally two mobile phones and my Iliad. Adding yet another device could get interesting :). Now a device that would allow me to read books, take notes, make and receive phone calls from two different mobile accounts and looks like a standard issue el cheapo notebook would seem to be just the ticket. However I doubt very much that I will ever get all of that in one package.

Have you considered an A4-format Tablet PC? It would seem to meet all your needs admirably.
I don't think there are any. Isn't the biggest tablet 12.1 inches? To read PDFs full-sized, you'd need at least 8.5 wide for letter and 11.7 tall for A4. Call that 9x12 and it requires a 15-inch screen. Plain notebooks have that and more, but not convertible ones nor straight tablets.

Asus R1F (13.3 inch)
http://www.tabletpcreview.com/price/default.asp?productFamilyID=913&ref=list&display=priceDetail

Gateway C-140X (14-inch)
http://www.tabletpcreview.com/price/default.asp?productFamilyID=1052&ref=list&display=priceDetail

Hehehe, I think two weeks have passed now. Guguy said he would post some new picks and info after his meeting with Bookeen.

Hehehe, I think two weeks have passed now. Guguy said he would post some new picks and info after his meeting with Bookeen.

He's supposed to meet Bookeen on the 24th.

Tomorrow! Excellent - perhaps we'll have a news update shortly, in that case.

Guguy's meeting with Bookeen has been cancelled. They don't want him to review the device before it gets released and consider it'd be an "information leak".

Guguy's meeting with Bookeen has been cancelled. They don't want him to review the device before it gets released and consider it'd be an "information leak".
That really does sound fishy to me. Like something is not right with the unit. I dunno what's up.

Huh. When Sony had us out to San Diego last year, 1~2 weeks before the Reader's launch, they just NDA'd us so that we wouldn't release anything until they were ready. It was a bit of a relief to have the time to write well, without worrying about beating the others. :shrug:

Wonder why Bookeen didn't go the NDA route, hope it's not a sign that they're way behind. :chinscratch:

Ummm... Natch?

We out here at NAEB have been living under an NDA for quite some time. I'm thinking that GuyGuy may not have wanted to sign one. We've only released information that they've approved as being within the scope of the NDA.

Derek

Huh. When Sony had us out to San Diego last year, 1~2 weeks before the Reader's launch, they just NDA'd us so that we wouldn't release anything until they were ready. It was a bit of a relief to have the time to write well, without worrying about beating the others. :shrug:

Wonder why Bookeen didn't go the NDA route, hope it's not a sign that they're way behind. :chinscratch:

We out here at NAEB have been living under an NDA for quite some time.So that's what was rattling around in the back of my memory that made this sound odd!

Yeah I knew that at one time, but it had slipped. :shrug:

You may be right, or I suppose they also might not like to do NDAs with people they don't have a business relationship ... or any of at least a score of other reasons that we'd never guess on our own. :)

They don't want him to review the device before it gets released and consider it'd be an "information leak".

Ok...sounds fair.
Shiny new product about to be released, highly interested target group.
Don't give any info because that would be an information leak?
Makes perfect sense to me.
But then again, I have invented a cure for the common cold, have been abducted by fairies at least a few times, always think in Egyptian pictograms and I am the only person in the world that can see the colour flod.
Yep...still makes perfect sense to me...

I would think that any company would be more then willing to give away all the info possible and let reviewers have a go at any device due to roll of the production lines.
I must be thinking all wrong.
Stupid me.

The only thing we can think of for this is that they are not sure enough that it'll ship on time and don't want people seeing a good review and then not being able to purchase one for who knows how long.

The only thing we can think of for this is that they are not sure enough that it'll ship on time and don't want people seeing a good review and then not being able to purchase one for who knows how long.
Or... they're not ready to allow a review from someone who has committed to answer a lot of sensitive (?) questions, suggested at the french discussion thread (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=87560&postcount=5). Questions like: PDF, ePub, bookmarking (specially in a long HTML file), battery, dictionary integration, Google Book Search and PNG readability, ability to take notes, etc.

The Cybook won't take notes. It doesn't have any input in that way. It's just a reader like the Sony. The only one that will is the iLiad.

The eBookwise also supports note-taking (though I don't know how you'd get the notes back out again).

Maybe everything is ok but they just want to keep the secret till the launch... who
knows. Maybe they just didn't appreciate me to "lied" (even if I mainly asked questions
here to make a better review).

Well, unless MobiPocket fixes their problems, it won't matter if the Gen3 is ready or not.

Then I guess it matters that the Gen3 will be ready shortly, yes?!? 'Cause Mobi's UP!

Derek

Well, unless MobiPocket fixes their problems, it won't matter if the Gen3 is ready or not.

Personally I'd far rather that Bookeen delayed the launch and got the product right rather than rush it out to meet some arbitrary deadline. If that means a Christmas release rather than September, then so be it.

my friend bought a plam tx (screen size 320 x 480) and he showed me math books in pdf. in the landscape mode it was perfect(for me at least!), even in portrait mode (with the reflow function) it looked nice.

personal conclusion;
cybook`s 800x600 screen, a dream come true.
now i just wait for a review of the device and then i am ready. i personally think that it will be the leading reader in the european market!

Personally I'd far rather that Bookeen delayed the launch and got the product right rather than rush it out to meet some arbitrary deadline. If that means a Christmas release rather than September, then so be it.

I agree.
My only hope is that this will be an ebook reader and not one of those I-can-do-a-lot-of-things-poorly device like we have seen in the past.
(and yes, the old Cybook had that problem in a big, big way)

Instant startup, decent batterylife, good display, lots of formats, memory enough and easy access is the stuff that good ebook devices are made of. :pray:
All the rest you can get if you buy a notebook or PDA.

I have a question for you guys.

Why do so many eBook readers have trouble with PDF? Couldn't they just display half of the page in landscape mode, as the levirothschild's post suggests.

Pressing down once would go to the second half. Pressing down again would go to the next page. You would have a bit of overlap when displaying the halves so that you could ensure a line didn't get split between the pages.

Is it really any harder than that?

I have a question for you guys.

Why do so many eBook readers have trouble with PDF? Couldn't they just display half of the page in landscape mode, as the levirothschild's post suggests.

Pressing down once would go to the second half. Pressing down again would go to the next page. You would have a bit of overlap when displaying the halves so that you could ensure a line didn't get split between the pages.

Is it really any harder than that?

Go and do your maths :)

An A4 page is 297 x 210 mm

eInk readers such as the Sony Reader and the CyBook Gen 3 have a 120 x 90 mm screen. Displaying the A4 document in "landscape" mode you therefore end up trying to display a 210mm wide document on a 120mm wide screen.

In order to make it fit, you have to reduce your 210mm down to 120mm - ie reduce it to 57% of its original size. Many documents will not will readable at barely half their original size.

Does that answer your question?

Thanks for the reply, Harry!

I did a quick test. Printed out an A4 page in 12pt Times with .25 inch margins.
Then I put it in the copier and reduced it to 57% of the original.
I then printed out a few more pages at various font sizes for comparison.
The results:
12pt Times gets translated into about 7.3pt. That's still readable! If the A4 page was published at 14pt or larger (I hear there is an option to buy some books in a large-print format) it would be even more viable.

Granted, 7.3pt is pretty dang small, but in a pinch, it would be fine to read -- at least, while my eyes are young.

Conclusion:
It wouldn't be a good idea for every book, but for some that only come in PDF, this would work just fine.

I have a question for you guys.

Why do so many eBook readers have trouble with PDF? Couldn't they just display half of the page in landscape mode, as the levirothschild's post suggests.

Pressing down once would go to the second half. Pressing down again would go to the next page. You would have a bit of overlap when displaying the halves so that you could ensure a line didn't get split between the pages.

Is it really any harder than that?

Not any harder.

Thanks for the reply, Harry!

I did a quick test. Printed out an A4 page in 12pt Times with .25 inch margins.
Then I put it in the copier and reduced it to 57% of the original.
I then printed out a few more pages at various font sizes for comparison.
The results:
12pt Times gets translated into about 7.3pt. That's still readable! If the A4 page was published at 14pt or larger (I hear there is an option to buy some books in a large-print format) it would be even more viable.

Granted, 7.3pt is pretty dang small, but in a pinch, it would be fine to read -- at least, while my eyes are young.

Conclusion:
It wouldn't be a good idea for every book, but for some that only come in PDF, this would work just fine.

A thing to bear in mind is that the screen has a relatively low resolution - 166dpi. 7pt text will not be as clearly readable on the screen as it will be on the photocopied page.

You're right, though - there are documents it'll be OK for, but there are others that it won't. Just have to try it and see. There are things you can do to improve it, such as cropping the document to remove the margins, which will mean that you can make the text a little larger.

E-book readers tend to have low performance cpus, so the best bet at the moment is off-line conversion to images optimized for the device. The best example so far is PDFLRF (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13135), and post #26 of this thread includes screenshots (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=91552&postcount=26). These might look even better in landscape. Even off-line conversion may not be good enough on a small screen, but it illustrates what will eventually be possible in real-time on future devices. Unfortunately, PDFLRF is Sony-specific at present but there are similar utilities that produce HTML and therefore target a wider range of devices.

A newbee, I have never owned an e-book reader, but I am on the BAEN-NAEB list to purchase the Bookeen Cybook Gen3. If I upload html pages from my PC on to the SD card, will I be able to view the pages on the Cybook?

I do genealogical research and have converted a lot of material to HTML. I would love to be able to check data stored in the Cybook when I am researching in Archives.

See The Branches of Susan's Family Trees
http://home.att.net/~jg245/

Can I leave the background="whiteweave6.jpg" on the descendent family trees htmls or should I remove the background images when I move them to the SD?

Susan

A newbee, I have never owned an e-book reader, but I am on the BAEN-NAEB list to purchase the Bookeen Cybook Gen3. If I upload html pages from my PC on to the SD card, will I be able to view the pages on the Cybook?

Yes.

Can I leave the background="whiteweave6.jpg" on the descendent family trees htmls or should I remove the background images when I move them to the SD?

Susan

Try it both ways and see which looks best. No need to edit the HTML if you don't want the background - just don't upload the JPG.

If I upload html pages from my PC on to the SD card, will I be able to view the pages on the Cybook? As HarryT says, single page HTML will definitely work, although we don't yet know the details of how well it will display such documents. I expect it to ignore your backgroud .jpg for example. Another option is to convert the files to MobiPocket. If you download MobiPocket Reader version 6.0 for Windows it will read your HTML files by first converting them to .prc files, and these .prc files will also be readable on the Cybook. On my PC the .prc files end up in "My Documents\My Ebooks\Mobipocket". Unfortunately, this only works with Windows (not Mac or Linux).

Yes.

Try it both ways and see which looks best. No need to edit the HTML if you don't want the background - just don't upload the JPG.

As HarryT says, single page HTML will definitely work, although we don't yet know the details of how well it will display such documents. I expect it to ignore your backgroud .jpg for example. Another option is to convert the files to MobiPocket. If you download MobiPocket Reader version 6.0 for Windows it will read your HTML files by first converting them to .prc files, and these .prc files will also be readable on the Cybook. On my PC the .prc files end up in "My Documents\My Ebooks\Mobipocket". Unfortunately, this only works with Windows (not Mac or Linux).

Thank you both! I will be able to access several hundred pages of research as easily as opening an e-book! Wonderful!

As HarryT says, single page HTML will definitely work, although we don't yet know the details of how well it will display such documents. I expect it to ignore your backgroud .jpg for example. Another option is to convert the files to MobiPocket. If you download MobiPocket Reader version 6.0 for Windows it will read your HTML files by first converting them to .prc files, and these .prc files will also be readable on the Cybook. On my PC the .prc files end up in "My Documents\My Ebooks\Mobipocket". Unfortunately, this only works with Windows (not Mac or Linux).

Can this work in a batch mode? (For example converting all the HTML files in a given folder (that does not have any subfolders).)

Do you expect that images normally linked in the HTML file and supplied in the directory with it will be displayed on the device's greyscale?

MobiPocket has a batch tool, mobigen, and if you want to put multiple HTML pages in a single e-book then MobiPocket Creator can do this, see downloads at the: Mobipocket Developer Center (http://www.mobipocket.com/dev/). There are other options, see E-book conversion (http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/E-book_conversion).

Advantages of converting to .mobi are that you can preview (and use) the result on other devices and you get a single file per book (that includes images and potentially multiple html source files). The advantages of staying in HTML are that it is easier to edit later on and is viewable via a web browser. I expect local images referenced by HTML pages to be displayed.

MobiPocket has a batch tool, mobigen, and if you want to put multiple HTML pages in a single e-book then MobiPocket Creator can do this, see downloads at the: Mobipocket Developer Center (http://www.mobipocket.com/dev/). There are other options, see E-book conversion (http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/E-book_conversion).

Advantages of converting to .mobi are that you can preview (and use) the result on other devices and you get a single file per book (that includes images and potentially multiple html source files). The advantages of staying in HTML are that it is easier to edit later on and is viewable via a web browser. I expect local images referenced by HTML pages to be displayed.
If I had my primary reader able to handle MobiPocket, I'd convert to Mobi format and keep both the source files and the Mobi file. Then if I wanted to convert to some other format I'd have the source to do the conversion with.