Hi Guys,

Have completed a BBeB version of the World English Bible.

The bookname -> chapter number menu works ok, but I am not totally happy with it - navigating to Deut book 20 for example takes 5 million clicks. I have an idea on how to improve it, and will hopefully have a version 2 up soon. Try it out, and let me know if there are any broken chapters/links!

Any comments on how to improve the navigation system might help my fine tune V2.

Enjoy!
Elf

This was posted (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8278) back in November, when the uploads sections weren't yet even a twinkle in HarryT's eye. The KJV version that heathriel just posted (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11987) reminded me of it, so I'm, belatedly, adding it to the uploads section.

Enjoy. :nice:

Thanks Nat! I've made a minor mod to the thread name for consistency with the naming of the KJV thread.

Excellent, I was hoping to get them similar enough that folks could find both of them easily. :nice:

Hi Guys,

Have completed a BBeB version of the World English Bible.

The bookname -> chapter number menu works ok, but I am not totally happy with it - navigating to Deut book 20 for example takes 5 million clicks. I have an idea on how to improve it, and will hopefully have a version 2 up soon. Try it out, and let me know if there are any broken chapters/links!

Any comments on how to improve the navigation system might help my fine tune V2.

Enjoy!
Elf

I think it might work better to have the books in the BBeB contents and the chapters as links at the beginning of each book. Do you have a working HTML for what you have already done? I could re-format from where you have finished rather than starting all over again from the original txt files.

For some strange reason it crashes my reader when I try to change the font size - I'd like to look into that to find out why as well.

I have also begun to format the Messianic version of the WEB for the Sony Reader

I think it might work better to have the books in the BBeB contents and the chapters as links at the beginning of each book. Do you have a working HTML for what you have already done? I could re-format from where you have finished rather than starting all over again from the original txt files.

For some strange reason it crashes my reader when I try to change the font size - I'd like to look into that to find out why as well.

I have also begun to format the Messianic version of the WEB for the Sony Reader


It crashes my reader when I hit the size button as well. Which is too bad, I was really beginning to like this version. I wonder if it's a function of book length and font size - 6000+ pages for this version at the small font size.

It would be nice to have a non-crashing version with the current book (of the Bible) displayed in the footer.

Isn't there a font selection on the Connect software? You might be able to connect your Reader, change the font on the desktop software, and then use that font on the Reader. You probably have to have the book on the Reader library when you do that. Don't have it in front of me, so can't tell if this is feasible or not, and it still might crash the Reader if you want to change the font size back again while undocked.

Isn't there a font selection on the Connect software? You might be able to connect your Reader, change the font on the desktop software, and then use that font on the Reader. You probably have to have the book on the Reader library when you do that. Don't have it in front of me, so can't tell if this is feasible or not, and it still might crash the Reader if you want to change the font size back again while undocked.

For me the problem is not so much getting to the font I want as having a crash-invoking file on a gadget.

I sure would like to know why that file crashes the Reader. Anybody got a book on their Reader longer than 6,000 pages?

I made a version of the New American Bible (Catholic) for my reader using the webpages from the US Bishops' site. It was a huge file, probably because of the way I converted it. I use Linux, so there's no "connect" software to format it for me. It took the reader almost 8 hours to format, but it didn't crash. Still, it was such a big file, navigation was too slow to be useful. I think I'm going to have to find a way to re-work it.

Quick Update - I have begun to create the WEB for the reader and started with an 11 point font. This gives me no problems selecting any of the 3 font sizes so I am picking the crashes might have something to do with the particular font chosen in the crashing version

Quick Update - I have begun to create the WEB for the reader and started with an 11 point font. This gives me no problems selecting any of the 3 font sizes so I am picking the crashes might have something to do with the particular font chosen in the crashing version
The WEB is?

Are you using Book Designer or html2lrf? If Book Designer, have you tried the latest version posted in the Sticky in the Reader Content forum?

The WEB is?


The "World English Bible". Unlike most Bible translations, which are carried out by multi-denominational committees, and aim to achieve both accuracy and balance, the WEB was done by a small group of people with a rather one-sided "evangelical" agenda. Few people would recommend it as a "good" translation. One of its few "benefits" is that it's freely available on the internet and is in the public domain ("WEB" is a deliberate play on words).

See:

http://www.ebible.org/

My Wife purchased a bible that is as neutral as possible. It's a direct translation of the original Hebrew. Does such exist as a free edition in electronic form?

There are many older translations of the bible that are now in the public domain - eg the "American Standard Version" of 1901. I'm not aware off-hand of any very "literal" transations; they tend not to be very readable because the grammatical structure of Hebrew is so radically different from that of English. You have to "paraphrase" to get readable English.

I'm sure you're aware of this, but only the Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew; the New Testament was written in Greek.

Good luck with that, man. Every translation, by its very nature, involves some bias and interpretation on the part of its translators.

Just as a small example, the passage in Isaiah that's often seen as a prophecy about the birth of Jesus says that either a "young woman" or a "virgin" will conceive. I doubt any Jewish translators would opt for the latter, given a bias against Christian interpretation. Few Christian translators would opt for the former, since it's been viewed for over 2000 years as phrophetic. Which translation is more "literal" is a debate that can't be won. When you use the word "literal" is it more important to understand what the words themselves mean, or what the human author meant by them? In that sense, saying any translation is more "literal" than another is on the verge of meaningless.

That's one plus for Islam, which claims that no translation of the Qur'an is authoritative. But then, the texts of the Qur'an are significantly more recent than either the Hebrew or the Aramaic/Greek scriptures.

One problem I've found is that many older Bible translations into English (and therefore public domain) didn't have the benefit of comparison and revision to be in accord with older, original manuscripts that had been discovered after they were published. Of course, there are always those who say that the KJV is the literal word of God since all the more modern translations disagree with it. ;-)

I tend to take exception with the WEB translators' position on "drop-outs" as they call them. Many of the newly-found, older manuscripts that have been discovered are significantly shorter than those used by the translators of years past. The logic of the WEB group is that a scribe would be more likely to miss a line here or there, causing a drop-out, than adding one in later on. This simply isn't true. Many scribes added glosses to the text for further explanation, filling in gaps for the curious, or even for devotional use (such as the "for thine is the kingdom...." ending to the Lord's Prayer.) These eventually found their way into older English Bibles and were seen as actual parts of the scriptures--something that was never intended. My personal view is "the shorter, the better" or at least, more authentic.

Translation is always a dangerous business. And I'd hate to have the job of a scriptural translator. Talk about pressure!

I've been considering purchasing the NIV version in Palm format. But, I'd like to know if it will convert properly with the TOC? I've used ABC Palm Converter to successfully convert PalmDocs before but, there were no TOCs involved then.

For some strange reason it crashes my reader when I try to change the font size - I'd like to look into that to find out why as well.I am having the same problem. Now that it is set at the size that crashes the Reader, I cannot resize it anymore or navigate pages. I have to delete it.

In addition, it shows up on my Reader with a title of "bible" and no author. Can we modify this to give it a title of "Bible" and an author of "World English Version" please?

This book has a bit over 6000 pages at size small. So it could be that changing the font size just takes a good long time. How long have you given it to change the font size?

This book has a bit over 6000 pages at size small. So it could be that changing the font size just takes a good long time. How long have you given it to change the font size?
I let it sit for about 10 minutes.

Were the arrows moving in a circle?

No. when I resized, it flashed the screen and then nothing. I was able to go to the main Sony Reader menu, but whenever I loaded the book, it just hung.

Problem is, I cannot tell what was used to create this. It wasn't Book Designer. I would like the OP to please tell us how this was created. Thanks!

Hi Guys,

Have completed a BBeB version of the World English Bible.

The bookname -> chapter number menu works ok, but I am not totally happy with it - navigating to Deut book 20 for example takes 5 million clicks. I have an idea on how to improve it, and will hopefully have a version 2 up soon. Try it out, and let me know if there are any broken chapters/links!

Any comments on how to improve the navigation system might help my fine tune V2.

Enjoy!
Elf
How did you create the LRF version? Thanks!

No. when I resized, it flashed the screen and then nothing. I was able to go to the main Sony Reader menu, but whenever I loaded the book, it just hung.

I tried making an LRF version of the New American Bible. It was a huge file. I had to let it format overnight. It was way too slow to be of any use. Might be the same problem.

Isn't there a font selection on the Connect software?

No there's no font selection that I can find anyway. If I've missed something let me know

I tried making an LRF version of the New American Bible. It was a huge file. I had to let it format overnight. It was way too slow to be of any use. Might be the same problem.

It seems to be something other than the size of a book that makes ot format slowly as I have a bible version that formats quite quickly. I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the font you select when you create the book in the first place.

It seems to be something other than the size of a book that makes ot format slowly as I have a bible version that formats quite quickly. I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the font you select when you create the book in the first place.
Did you install this on a memory card or the reader's internal memory? I think if it's on a memory card, the reader may have to do some of the formatting unlike internally where Connect does it for you.

I see a NIV has been published at Sony. Two questions:

1. When someone buys it, what are your thoughts on the formatting?

2. What are people's thoughts on the accuracy of WEV vs. NIV vs. KJV? I'm not very familiar with new (post-Renaissance) translations.

I'll take a shot at this one:2. What are people's thoughts on the accuracy of WEV vs. NIV vs. KJV?Please forgive me if I'm telling you stuff you already know. :nice:

The WEB is an "updating" of the language in the ASV (American Standard Version -- you can find the source site here (http://ebible.org/)). The drawback to the KJV is that its also a language update of a previous translation, rather than a direct translation. In fact, the KJV is several layers of language updates away from its original translation. The reason that's a drawback is that it allows multiple opportunities for mis-translation.

The New KJV (NKJV) on the other hand, is a direct translation from the original source texts, but preserves the 'thee and thou' feel of the KJV, which a lot of folks like both because it tends to flow nicely, and because it's familiar to them.

The NIV is another direct translation, it is a conceptual translation (I think the NKJV is too, but I'm not sure of that). By that I mean they translate each sentence rather than each word. It also flows pretty well, though, arguably, not as nicely as the NKJV.

The New American Standard (NASB -- I know you didn't ask about it, but I'll be as thorough as I have information for, don't worry, this is about the last of it), is also a direct translation, but it is a word by word translation, rather than a sentence by sentence. This means that it doesn't flow as well, but it arguably is a more technically accurate translation.

Personally, I like the NIV and the NASB for my own purposes, with the NASB being my current "main" translation. The NKJV is just as good a translation, in my opinion, as either of those (I just happen to prefer the others), but I try to stay away from indirect translations, like the KJV.

The least useful, for my purposes, are the 'paraphrase' translations such as the "Living Bible" or the "Good News Bible," they tend to eliminate all but the most brutally obvious meaning of a given passage, losing any nuance that was in the original text. That can be useful if you've got a passage that you just can't make heads nor tails of, but that's about the extent of it, to my thinking. :shrug: I tend to lump translations like those under the SGV label -- "Some Goofy Version." :grin:

but the problem is we have to use what we can download and format ourselves which limits the options a bit. I use WEB Messianic version but the NKJV sounds good if it come out in BBeB format. I have noticed that books formatted by Sony always seem to use small fonts tho.

They do seem to keep the fonts too small, don't they? My pet theory is that the publishers are mandating the sizes, and haven't really 'gotten' that the Reader's display is actually smaller than a 'book' page. :shrug:

Your point about the e-vailability is well taken, but I was trying to answer the question in general terms rather than in terms of e-vailability, since that's the way I took the question to be meant. :nice:

But, yes, e-vailability is still rather a significantly limiting factor. :sad:

Allow me to expand a little on Nat's excellent post about Bible translation. It's not really about "accuracy" - one can reasonably assume that every worthwhile Bible translator is familiar with Biblical Hebrew and Koine Greek - but more about the compromise between "word for word" translation and paraphrase which exists with every translation.

There's basically a spectrum of methods of translation.

At one end of the scale you have what are called "formal" translations, which attempt a "word for word" rendering of the original language into English (or whatever the "target" language is). These attempt to translate, as literally as possible, the original language into English, with word for word equivalence. Formal translations of the Bible include the KJV, NKJV, RSV, and NASB.

The problem with formal translation is the language is full of idioms, and they don't translate at all well in this method. For example, if you look at the KJV, at 1 Samuel, 24:3 you'll find:

"And he came to the sheepcotes by the way, where was a cave; and Saul went in to cover his feet: and David and his men remained in the sides of the cave."

What on earth is this "cover his feet" stuff all about? It is in fact a Hebrew idiom meaning "to relieve yourself", but I suspect that the typical reader of the KJV wouldn't have a clue. Formal translations are linguistically accurate, but not at all good for actually understanding what's being said.

At the other end of the scale you have what are called "paraphrase" translations, which take whole sentences, or even paragraphs, and rewrite them in modern, idiomatic, language. These versions generally don't have the traditional "verse" markings; they are laid out like a modern book, in continuous text. They can be very readable, but many people dislike them because you aren't reading the "original language" in any sense. There are lots of paraphrase translations, such as "The Living Bible" and "The Message".

The best translations - IMHO - are those which take the "middle ground"; these are called "dynamic translations". They start off by translating "formally", but then replace idiomatic and culture-specific words or phrases by their modern equivalents. Such translations include the NRSV, NIV, and NEB. Eg, if we look again at 1 Sam 24:3 the NRSV has:

"He came to the sheep pens along the way; a cave was there, and Saul went in to relieve himself. David and his men were far back in the cave."

Which I think most people would agree is much more "understandable" to a modern reader than the KJV version quoted above.

Different "dynamic" translations, though, differ in what they actually change. Eg, both old and new testament society was male-dominated, hence the Bible uses "male" language even when the meaning obviously applies both both men and women. Some translations such as the NRSV replace "brothers" by "brothers and sisters", "he" by "he or she" (or "they"), etc, to make this clear; others leave in the "male" words. This is an area in which the more "conservative" churches tend to differ from more "liberal" ones in terms of what translations they prefer to use.

I could go on ad nausiam about this, but that's enough to be going on with, and gives an impression as to why many people feel that there is a real need for better translations than the KJV, and why there are such a range of different translations available.

For the record, my personal favourite translation is the NRSV - a "liberal dynamic" translation.

Harry,

Where would you say the WEV falls in the spectrum of formal to paraphrase? I've been reading the KJV most of my life and I found the posted WEV quite refreshing.

The WEB Bible is a "dynamic" translation, rather than a "formal" one, so it is a lot more readable than the KJV, and converts all the idioms into modern English (unlike the KJV). As someone else said, however, it has been criticised for the sources it uses. As a freebie, though, it's pretty good.

The WEB Bible is a "dynamic" translation, rather than a "formal" one, so it is a lot more readable than the KJV, and converts all the idioms into modern English (unlike the KJV). As someone else said, however, it has been criticised for the sources it uses. As a freebie, though, it's pretty good.

I went to the fountain of all knowledge (except for the vandalism), Wikipedia, looking for criticism on the various translations. Although Wikipedia didn't have much in the way of WEB criticism, it did have links to NIV criticism. The jist of one link was that the NSRV is the cleanest translation and the NIV was translated by Protestant (only), Evangelical scholars with an agenda. The link then proceeded to show the same passages from NIV, KJV, and NSRV and how translations were manipulated to further said agenda.

I then pulled up the WEB in a neighboring tab and compared each passage to the passages shown in the link. By this standard of criticism, the WEB faired very well. Not quite as clean as the NSRV, but in the ballpark.

I'll keep looking for Fair and Balanced assessments of the various translations but for now I'm off the NIV. I'll stick with my WEB and stay away from the "size" button until I have time to format it the way I want it. Maybe we'll get a NSRV at the Connect store.

I'd be interested in hearing the thoughts of others on the various translations, especially fans of the NIV.

I'll stick with my WEB and stay away from the "size" button until I have time to format it the way I want it.I meant to ask you about that before: have you done the firmware updates? I had trouble with that file crashing my Reader when I went to the L size, but the first firmware update took care of it. Thought it might be worth mentioning. :shrug:

I meant to ask you about that before: have you done the firmware updates? I had trouble with that file crashing my Reader when I went to the L size, but the first firmware update took care of it. Thought it might be worth mentioning. :shrug:

Natch,

I have done the only firmware update I know of 1.0.03.07170: I just checked, the first <size> press, going from Small to Medium font goes ok. The second press locks it up.