I do a lot of reading in the dark at night in bed. My wife doesn't want a light on and I find that many people I recommended to buy an REB-1100 or Ebookwise-1150 had the same issue and loved those devices for that reason.

Why is it that none of the new e-reading devices coming out support a backlit screen? I don't really understand technically what e-Ink is, and perhaps it can't support it, but if that is the case then in my mind the e-Ink technology just isn't what I would be interested in. I read quite a bit and would love to buy a Sony E-Reader or something like that due to the amount of titles available in the library. What is it with technology like this? They always leave an important feature out.

Does anyone know of any future devices that do support a backlight or am I stuck with my Ebookwise-1150 and that is it until they close their doors? Do I have to buy one of these Ultra Mobile PCs instead, even though all I want is to read ebooks (I purchased my Nokia 770 for reading ebooks on because my ebookwise broke and I sent it in for repairs and used the 770 for reading until it came back).

Regards,
ColdSun

Welcome to MobileRead, ColdSun! :nice:

The reason that e-ink isn't back-lit is basically that it's opaque. You can't pass light through it at all.

That being said, I'd suggest that you arrange to have a look at an e-ink screen for yourself. It really does have to be seen to really be understood.

You may also want to take a look at the various reading lights that folks have come up with for reading from an e-ink display in the dark. There are several, and they work fairly well, and a don't necessarily give off more light than a back-lit screen would. :shrug:

Of course, if that doesn't work for you, and if the back-light is a deal breaker for you, then I'm glad you found out about it ahead of time -- far better that, than learning about it after you bought one.

I don't think that any of the forthcoming e-ink will support backlighting, but there are a number of other bi-stable displays in the works that may support it, and I figure it's only a matter of time before someone works out a lightwedge type of light for these devices. :shrug:

Of course, you may be waiting a while. :tired:

I do a lot of reading in the dark at night in bed.
So how do you read in the dark? Doesn't the lack of light cause a problem?

Why is it that none of the new e-reading devices coming out support a backlit screen?

Because eInk screens are opaque.

What is it with technology like this? They always leave an important feature out.

That's why printed books have been such a miserable failure, I guess - no backlighting.

Seriously - think of eInk as you would a paper book; it needs similar lighting conditions to use it. You can either use a reading lamp, or one of the many "clip on" lights available for paper books. If you've never seen an eInk screen for real, do try and take a look. Photographs just don't convey how tremendously good they are. Don't dismiss the technology just because it can't be backlit.

I do a lot of reading in the dark at night in bed.

So how do you read in the dark?Heh, heh. He uses a back-lit Ebookwise, JSWolf. :nice:

So how do you read in the dark? Doesn't the lack of light cause a problem?

Like the fellow above stated, I use my ebookwise-1150 or my Nokia 770.

I will look into the e-Ink stuff - but I did say I wasn't familiar with the technology. Now that I understand the why of not having a backlight, I just have to consider if I'm interested in one. I really don't mind charging my ebook devices more often. I guess I'll have a look at the Sony E-Reader this week and see how I feel then.

I found a deal on some tablet PCs for $155 each. Maybe that is another route I can take.

Okay. One thing to consider is that mini-LED booklites are cheaper, last longer and much lighter than older incandescent booklites. Thus, using an LED booklite isn't that much of an 'inconvenience'. Further, one could modify a Lightwedge, using velcro, to fit onto the average eInk reader - sure, it's much more expensive than a typical booklite, but it gives nice, even illumination across the surface.

And then there's the larger screen size and the longer battery life of the average eInk reader - we're talking days and *weeks* of battery life here! :D

For that kind of mobility convenience, I'd be willing to have to add an LED or Lightwedge booklite to the package. :D

Derek

Like the fellow above stated, I use my ebookwise-1150 or my Nokia 770.

I will look into the e-Ink stuff - but I did say I wasn't familiar with the technology. Now that I understand the why of not having a backlight, I just have to consider if I'm interested in one. I really don't mind charging my ebook devices more often. I guess I'll have a look at the Sony E-Reader this week and see how I feel then.

I found a deal on some tablet PCs for $155 each. Maybe that is another route I can take.

Can you give me a link to one of these LED lights you are speaking of? That sounds very interesting and I don't mind that inconvienence at all.

Can you give me a link to one of these LED lights you are speaking of?Certainly! Though I'll first add that several of us (myself included) prefer some of the CCFL lights to the LED ones -- they're battery hogs, but they also use standard sized batteries so rechargeables are an option, and the full-spectrum nature of the light from them can make a big difference on the display. :nice:

Those are discussed in these threads too:

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9362
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9756
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10022
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11460

Hopefully something will jump out at you. :smile:

Like the fellow above stated, I use my ebookwise-1150 or my Nokia 770.

I will look into the e-Ink stuff - but I did say I wasn't familiar with the technology. Now that I understand the why of not having a backlight, I just have to consider if I'm interested in one. I really don't mind charging my ebook devices more often. I guess I'll have a look at the Sony E-Reader this week and see how I feel then.

I found a deal on some tablet PCs for $155 each. Maybe that is another route I can take.
The Sony Reader has (currently) the best battery life of most portable devices. It can last weeks (about 2-3) without needing to be recharged.

at my age the backlight hurts the eyes, too harsh

The Sony Reader has (currently) the best battery life of most portable devices. It can last weeks (about 2-3) without needing to be recharged.

Yes, I'm glad someone mentioned this. To me, the advantage of having such a long battery life definitely outweighs the disadvantage of not having a backlight. Backlights use up a significant amount power on devices with regular screens. I think the e-ink technology is brilliant precisely because it does not need to use power except for page-turns.

If I have to read in the dark, a regular LED book light works great for me with the Sony Reader.

By the way, I use this LED book light:

http://www.greatpointlight.com/graphics2/3led-z.jpg

A lot of people on this forum are very particular about their book lights, :) but my husband and I find this light works perfectly well.

I am new to the forums having received my Sony PRS-500 just 2 weeks ago, and stumbling upon this forum recently.

I was wondering if there are any thoughts of introducing a "front-lit" solution in new e-book readers.

For example, even if e-ink is opaque, why can't there be a layer in front of the e-ink that allows for the display to be lit?

BTW great forum, and love the resources on this site.

Some people have modified a Lightwedge Paperback to fit onto a Sony. Right now, that's just about it. It would be nice to have a more permanent solution - one that is commercial.

Derek

I am new to the forums having received my Sony PRS-500 just 2 weeks ago, and stumbling upon this forum recently.

I was wondering if there are any thoughts of introducing a "front-lit" solution in new e-book readers.

For example, even if e-ink is opaque, why can't there be a layer in front of the e-ink that allows for the display to be lit?

BTW great forum, and love the resources on this site.

at my age the backlight hurts the eyes, too harsh

You can turn the backlight down though. In a windows mobile device you simply go into settings>system>backlight>configure.

Doesn't that hurt visibility in normal lighting, andym? I know it does on my Palm .... :headscratch:

This reminds me of when the Gameboy Advance came out and everyone complained about not having the backlight.
Some enterprising guys developed an internal lighting solution called the Afterburner that worked and sold so well that it forced Nintendo to light up their screens in the newer models.
I've owned the new Sony reader but sold mine because I need the convenience of a built in backlit screen.
I've read tons of books on my reb1100 but never completed one book on the Sony for much the same reasons as the first poster in this topic.
I do most of my reading at night and in bed. My wife is a very light sleeper and can not sleep with even most booklights on.
But with the room in total darkness and my reb1100 backlight turned down to its lowest setting we both are pretty happy and the backlight is not harsh at all like most pocket pcs that i have used.
REB1100 rules for now but I wouldn't be surprised if some new group of enterprising types comes up with an internal lighting solution for the Sony reader... that would be awesome and I would probably be first in line to buy one.

Yeah, I used to want a back-lit ebook reader device but I fell for the Sony Reader and I am still oh so happy with it. I'm sure in the future devices will provide some sort of lighting solution. But yes, *you* have to decide whether e-ink will meed *your* needs.

BTW guys, this is what I want to stick on my Reader:

http://lunabrite.com/ecosystem.php

That'd rock!!

Well maybe one of us can get a set of strips and try it out on either a Sony or a Cybook.

Derek

Yeah, I used to want a back-lit ebook reader device but I fell for the Sony Reader and I am still oh so happy with it. I'm sure in the future devices will provide some sort of lighting solution. But yes, *you* have to decide whether e-ink will meed *your* needs.

BTW guys, this is what I want to stick on my Reader:

http://lunabrite.com/ecosystem.php

That'd rock!!

The Afterburner used a "light guide" to illuminate the screen.
Here is a web site with some before and after pictures.
http://www.goldenshop.com.hk/AI-trad/gba/backlit.htm

And here is another web site that sells light guides for other handheld systems:
http://www.mash-mods.com/products/Frontlit%20Systems%20&%20Services/frontlightkit

Nintendo did a much better job with "light guide" technology on the GBA SP.
However, "light guides" can wash out the screen and can also cause a trapezoid effect across the screen.

Emailed Gregor at Mash-Mods... He currently works with 2.5" front-lighting panels but he has a source who may well be interested in the idea of creating front-light systems for eInk readers.

Derek

The Afterburner used a "light guide" to illuminate the screen.
Here is a web site with some before and after pictures.
http://www.goldenshop.com.hk/AI-trad/gba/backlit.htm

And here is another web site that sells light guides for other handheld systems:
http://www.mash-mods.com/products/Frontlit%20Systems%20&%20Services/frontlightkit

Nintendo did a much better job with "light guide" technology on the GBA SP.
However, "light guides" can wash out the screen and can also cause a trapezoid effect across the screen.

any response yet?

Yeah, I used to want a back-lit ebook reader device but I fell for the Sony Reader and I am still oh so happy with it. I'm sure in the future devices will provide some sort of lighting solution. But yes, *you* have to decide whether e-ink will meed *your* needs.

BTW guys, this is what I want to stick on my Reader:

http://lunabrite.com/ecosystem.php

That'd rock!!

I got samples of Lunabrite!!!! :D :D :D

They *clearly* cannot function as a display lighting system!!! :smack::smack::smack:

Sorry, but they're just bright enough to be seen in darkness. They work perfectly as a walkway light, but that's it.

Derek

Perhaps grimo1re just wants to be able to find his Reader in the dark :).

I got samples of Lunabrite!!!! :D :D :D

They *clearly* cannot function as a display lighting system!!! :smack::smack::smack:How'd you get samples? I'm curious about them for ... well, for several things.

Is it just suped up glow in the dark stuff or what? The site says it can be "re-charged" how does that work?

Perhaps grimo1re just wants to be able to find his Reader in the dark :).Ahem, her Reader. :wink2:

Whatever :).

How'd you get samples? I'm curious about them for ... well, for several things.

Is it just suped up glow in the dark stuff or what? The site says it can be "re-charged" how does that work?

Ahem, her Reader. :wink2:

Ummm... I emailed them and asked for samples?!?:2thumbsup

Really, it was *just that simple*. :D :D :D

And it's just souped-up glow-in-the-dark stuff. Very flexible and I can say that even the light of a 100W cfl bulb - exposing for just 30 minutes - is enough to recharge the strip for 6-8 hours of glow. :)

Derek

Well, if it "clearly" can't function as a lighting system then I still think It'd look cool on my reader. I want samples too!

Well, if it "clearly" can't function as a lighting system then I still think It'd look cool on my reader. I want samples too!

It would certainly make *quite* a fashion statement! :D

And it would make finding one's reader in a dark room *much* easier! :2thumbsup

Derek

Ummm... I emailed them and asked for samples?!?:2thumbsupHeh, I thought it would be all complicated. :grin:

Thanks!

Great conversation. I have an interesting take on this topic, since my company is heavily invested in the use of backlit eBook devices.

Recently, I spoke with eBook Technologies Inc, the maker of the ETI-2 (eBookWise) device, and they assured me that their long-term manufacturing plans of the backlit units have not changed. They have E-Ink devices in development, but the ETI-2 backlit devices are here for the long term.

I don’t think the backlit units are going away any time soon. There are too many commercial applications for them.

For example, we use the ETI-2 backlit ebook readers for the newspaper carriers who use our software. Instead of delivering newspapers using paper route lists with the dome light on, they have a backlit eBook device mounted to the windshield. It is immensely safer to use while driving than any paper system.

In demonstrating the necessity of backlighting, these pictures say it all:
eBook Devices used for night time newspaper delivery (http://www.mydistrict.net/Default.aspx/118/Articles/eBook_Integration.html)

In addition, I have yet to see an E-Ink device that is as rugged as the ETI-2. Many commercial environments require a rugged eBook device.

Lastly, since the E-Ink is monochrome only, and many commercial uses of eBook technology require color, E-Ink will not supplant color eBooks for many applications.

eBook devices are gaining popularity in commercial applications. Aside from our software for the newspaper industry, these devices are also in use in the military and in other government applications. Most commercial users will not justify the price difference between the ETI-2 and E-Ink devices.

E-Ink, while promising, will be unsuitable for commercial use until:
1) Its price comes down
2) There is a backlight or integrated frontlight option
3) There is a color option

This is good news for the consumer users who prefer backlit devices. You’ll continue to have backlit devices to choose from for some time to come.

Rob Hudson
rob@mydistrict.net (rob@mydistrict.net)
MyDistrict.Net - Newspaper Circulation Software (http://www.mydistrict.net/)

Recently, I spoke with eBook Technologies Inc, the maker of the ETI-2 (eBookWise) device, and they assured me that their long-term manufacturing plans of the backlit units have not changed. They have E-Ink devices in development, but the ETI-2 backlit devices are here for the long term.Hold the phone there, Rob!

Actually I should remember my manners and first welcome you to the community. :welcome:

What you said there is of particular interest at the moment, I wonder if you had this conversation with ETI in any documented format (like e-mail) that you could share with us, it might resolve some questions we've had kicking around the place for a while. :nice:

Hey NatCh,

It was a telephone conversation, and I'm not certain which details they would want me to share. Detailed questions should be directed to Garth, who I'm sure will be glad to help. I did not realize until after I posted this that Garth is a contributor to the forums.

Basically, the gist that I can share is that we asked eBook specifically about long-term plans because we were going to need ETI-2 units in significant quantity for a long time to come. They assured us that there was sufficient supply to meet demand, and that we are only a small part of the commercial market.

I hope this helps...

Rob Hudson
rob@mydistrict.net (rob@mydistrict.net)
MyDistrict.Net - Newspaper Circulation Software (http://www.mydistrict.net/)

Even that's still good to know, Rob. We've been having a discussion (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16150) recently (don't know if you've noticed it yet or not) about whether the eBookwise device qualifies as a "legacy" device or not, that's why I'm particularly interested in what you had to say on the matter. :nice:

One possible solution to the dilemma may be in the design of the One Laptop Per Child computers. The screens are ordinary backlit LCD screens until you turn the brightness all the way down. Then they go to a gray scale that is very much like ePaper. The battery last longer in this mode and they can be read in bright sunlight. Has anybody here fooled around with one of these yet?

Hey folks. There already is an e paper device on the market with a lit screen. My Motorola F3 Motofone has an e paper display fron E Ink and it is side lit. There is a small slit beheath the screen and a small LED is used to provide minimal illumination. It's not as effective as a backlit LCD but it's still readable.