Bookeen seems to have updated their site (http://bookeen.com/ebook/ebook-reading-device.aspx) with an image of their new Cybook hardware. In a way, it's a bit disappointing, because they've adjusted it so that it seems this is the only page available at the moment.

However, there is a nifty picture of the new hardware, which you're also seeing here, and they do note that we should "stay tuned" so perhaps this is a very short term thing.

I suspect this may shed some light on the delays that the NAEB e-Reader (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10013&highlight=naeb) has experienced.

If we had had enough people willing, this is the device that could have been built for us.
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8996

If we had had enough people willing, this is the device that could have been built for us.
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8996

Well I can clearly say that they saw this poll based on the pricing for this new device.
Alexander will make a longer post about this new device tonight...

Do we know what format(s) this puppy will be displaying for us?

I believe it should be something like: RTF, HTML, PDF and PRC (Mobipocket without DRM) -- that's the basic list the NAEB folks are expecting, anyway, and I think they're expecting 'stock' software. :shrug:

I believe it should be something like: RTF, HTML, PDF and PRC (Mobipocket without DRM) -- that's the basic list the NAEB folks are expecting, anyway, and I think they're expecting 'stock' software. :shrug:
If that is true, it'll tank big time. It needs to have support for at least one popular DRM format that can be purchased at some online ebook shop.

Jon

The books pictured on Bookeen's site are DRMed titles (e.g. Da Vinci Code by Dan Brown). There have been rumors that the Cybook will support Mobipocket DRM, but this has not been confirmed.

if it supports mobipocket then it has a chance to steal the palm market if it's not too expensive. I hate to say this, but the palm is the #1 portable reading device right now.

But, you can always buy .LIT and break it. I think I've heard that ... somewhere. :mad:

But we are talking the average person who has no idea what you can do to get content on these readers other then buying the format(s) the device supports out of the box. I mean if I gave a Sony Reader to my mother and didn't help her with it, then all she'd be able to get would be books from the Connect store.

But we are talking the average person who has no idea what you can do to get content on these readers other then buying the format(s) the device supports out of the box.We are? When did we narrow the discussion down to that group? :grin:

What we really need is a reader that supports LIT, Mobipocket, Fictionbook, and LIT and we will be set enough for the formats. Make it do A4 PDF well, text, html, JOG (and other graphics) and I think we've got something good there. of course, the price has to be good as well.

Scr*w LIT! I vote for Mobi, Fictionwise, and eReader. Sure, they're all proprietary, but they'll work on a Linux platform without having to buy into the Micro$loth system.

Derek

:laugh4:

Scr*w LIT! I vote for Mobi, Fictionwise, and eReader. Sure, they're all proprietary, but they'll work on a Linux platform without having to buy into the Micro$loth system.

Derek
Mobipocket and eReader use the same format (if I am not mistaken). And yes we do need LIT format. Might as well go with BBeB (LRF) as well. But with the formats you can support on Linux, there is no need to pick on the formats you cannot. It's not Microsoft's fault you went with a lesser supported OS.

No, Mobipocket uses its own format. It is a layered format, i. e. The outer packaging is Palm .prc format, then each block is compressed and encrypted by a proprietary Mobipocket algorithm (both optional). The content is a HTML file with only minor proprietary additions by Mobipocket.

JSWolf,

Quick, tell me how many eInk-based ebook readers out there run under Windows. What's that? I can't quite hear you... That's right, none, zilch, nada, zero. Sure, there are far more PalmOS and WinMobile devices out there than there are Linux handhelds - maybe. But when it comes to eInk, Linux currently reigns supreme.

And supporting BBeB (LRF) is going to be almost as tough as LIT because it also is a proprietary format. I believe, but I don't know for sure, that it doesn't require Windows-specific DLLs, but do you really believe Sony will *want* to license the LRF format to its competitors?

Derek

Mobipocket and eReader use the same format (if I am not mistaken). And yes we do need LIT format. Might as well go with BBeB (LRF) as well. But with the formats you can support on Linux, there is no need to pick on the formats you cannot. It's not Microsoft's fault you went with a lesser supported OS.

And supporting BBeB (LRF) is going to be almost as tough as LIT because it also is a proprietary format. I believe, but I don't know for sure, that it doesn't require Windows-specific DLLs, but do you really believe Sony will *want* to license the LRF format to its competitors?I'll take a swing at those two, Derek. :nice:

I'm pretty sure that LRF support can be done without Windows specific anything since the Reader itself runs a variant of Linux as its OS, so that falls into the category of (I actually get to use this correctly!) Q.E.D. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q.E.D.) :scholar:

I do believe (though let me be clear that it's my opinion, and even I recognize that it could be wrong, but don't tell my brothers I said any such thing!) that Sony would love to license the BBeB format to its competitors. I expect that everyone who has come up with a proprietary format has done so with the hope, however secret, that their format might become the 'standard' format. Otherwise, why not just use an existing one? :shrug:

The older CyBook (which I have) supported Mobipocket, so it would seem reasonable to hypothesise that this new machine will do so as well.

I wonder if they'll take the same approach as the old CyBook and provide a range of bookreading programs on it so you can choose which one to use? I really liked that approach! Especially because one of them was "uBook", which is my all-time favourite bookreader.

The problem though is not what the readers run for their OS, it's what the OS the manufacturers decide to Support. If it wasn't for third party software, there would be no MAC or Linux support at all for your laptop and/or desktop computers. This is a fact. Windows is where you will get support. Name me one reader that has never had Windows support?

Natch,

I'm pretty sure that LRF doesn't require Windows either. That wasn't my point. My point was that licensing LRF to other ebook readers *WON'T* sell more Sony ebook readers! After all, Sony isn't in the business of creating and marketing software solutions. :smack:

And you're missing my *other* point as well. The LIT format *REQUIRES* that litgen.dll be placed on the device which will be reading the LIT ebook. Guess what? Linux on the eInk devices won't run litgen! Oh sure, the PCs and Macs will be quite useful for downloading LIT ebooks, but the point is to be able to open and *READ* LIT ebooks on an eInk reader. That pretty much means LIT won't be available until someone releases an eInk reader that uses WinMobile or WinXP/Vista as its primary OS.

GAWD! I'd rather be forced to learn cuniform to read my books than have to experience an eInk reader running under WinVista! :freak:

Derek

I'll take a swing at those two, Derek. :nice:

I'm pretty sure that LRF support can be done without Windows specific anything since the Reader itself runs a variant of Linux as its OS, so that falls into the category of (I actually get to use this correctly!) Q.E.D. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q.E.D.) :scholar:

I do believe (though let me be clear that it's my opinion, and even I recognize that it could be wrong, but don't tell my brothers I said any such thing!) that Sony would love to license the BBeB format to its competitors. I expect that everyone who has come up with a proprietary format has done so with the hope, however secret, that their format might become the 'standard' format. Otherwise, why not just use an existing one? :shrug:

JSWolf,

Support? Sure, all the readers can interface with Windows systems. But what's the point of having an eInk reader if you *MUST* be tied into it, either via cable, Bluetooth or WiFi, in order to open and read the LIT ebook? Because you'd have to turn your eInk reader into a wired/wireless 'dumb terminal' in order to do so. Get this straight, *opening* a LIT ebook requires the use of litgen.dll. Litgen won't *run* under Linux.

Sure, we could all learn how to run ConvertLit on our primary systems and then take the resultant output over to our eInk readers but the *VAST MAJORITY* of ebook users aren't going to want to do that.

Derek

The problem though is not what the readers run for their OS, it's what the OS the manufacturers decide to Support. If it wasn't for third party software, there would be no MAC or Linux support at all for your laptop and/or desktop computers. This is a fact. Windows is where you will get support. Name me one reader that has never had Windows support?

Huh? litgen.dll is for generating .lit ebooks. msreader.exe is for display of .lit ebooks. Both are Windows only though.
Linux seems to be the OS of the future for reader devices. Mainly because it is customizable for any hardware you cook up. You also find more experts to do the implementation.

The older CyBook (which I have) supported Mobipocket, so it would seem reasonable to hypothesise that this new machine will do so as well.

I wonder if they'll take the same approach as the old CyBook and provide a range of bookreading programs on it so you can choose which one to use? I really liked that approach! Especially because one of them was "uBook", which is my all-time favourite bookreader. The old CyBook ran Windows CE (right?), so there were multiple software e-book readers to choose from. For Linux there is really only FBReader, and the only DRMed reader is Sony's software currently tied to their hardware (Mobipocket requires Java to run under Linux). I, too, assume that the new CyBook will support Mobipocket, but I'm not sure how they will do this (add Java, or produce a native Linux reader, or switch to Windows CE). If the new CyBook supported MobiPocket DRM and FBReader it would be a killer device, well worth a small premium in cost over the Sony Reader. If they can get software vendors like uBook to produce Linux versions for the CyBook (and Asus Eee, etcetera) that would be even better.

Sorry, there is also Plucker. Where is the problem of needing Java for Mobipocket? Mobipocket simply has not yet released a general Linux reader.

Where is the problem of needing Java for Mobipocket? Mobipocket simply has not yet released a general Linux reader. The problem is that Java probably won't already be available on a minimal hardware Linux handheld device, so someone has to implement it first. There may be a similar problem for FBReader, which needs GTK+ or QT libraries.

Sorry, there is also Plucker. Is anyone using the Linux Plucker Viewer? I had high hopes for this when the Nokia 770 came out, but early versions did not work well and I switched to FBReader (which reads plucker format). Now the Plucker Viewer isn't even listed in the maemo.org applications list.

My point was that licensing LRF to other ebook readers *WON'T* sell more Sony ebook readers!Quite right, it almost certainly wouldn't, but licensing the BBeB (LRF/LRX) format to other e-book vendors most likely would do just that. :nice:

And you're missing my *other* point as well.
<snip>
Linux on the eInk devices won't run litgen!Oh, I didn't actually miss that point so much as I didn't really feel that I needed to specifically express agreement with it, since it seemed obvious to me that it was true and accurate. :wink:

So I decided to move on to the points upon which I felt I had something useful to add. :shrug:

The old CyBook ran Windows CE (right?), so there were multiple software e-book readers to choose from. For Linux there is really only FBReader, and the only DRMed reader is Sony's software currently tied to their hardware (Mobipocket requires Java to run under Linux).

That's right - the old CyBook runs CE. CE 3, to be specific.

Is there any specific reason that an eInk device has to run Linux? It's just a display technology - would it not be possible to make a Windows CE machine with an eInk display?

The combination of the old CyBook's software with the battery life of the Sony Reader would make a pretty awesome combination!

Is there any specific reason that an eInk device has to run Linux? It's just a display technology - would it not be possible to make a Windows CE machine with an eInk display?I'd assume that it's more a licensing than a technical consideration, but that's more figurin' than knowin'. :shrug:

For an eInk device you want to minimize partial screen changes as much as possible. This means a custom UI which is not menu driven. Windows CE does not fit well here because it wants to maintain the Windows look & feel.

Wallcraft,

There are versions of the QT and GTK+ libraries for embedded Linux systems. Right off the bat I can think of Nano-GTK and I believe there's a pico-QT - but I might not have that name right - and there's also Nano-X for embedded Linux as well. And the entire NGTK and NX only needs 4MB of RAM to work.

Derek

The problem is that Java probably won't already be available on a minimal hardware Linux handheld device, so someone has to implement it first. There may be a similar problem for FBReader, which needs GTK+ or QT libraries.

The iLiad shows what is possible with Java (and their choice of a Java engine is not optimal). Also a 200 MHz or 400 MHz CPU common to most PDAs is actually a powerful computer. Not too long ago i was a proud owner of a 200 MHtz Pentium.

I remember my 4Mhz (8 Mhz with the "turbo" activated) 8086 clone, with 512 kB of RAM and no Hard-Drive -- the processors in these readers seem downright powerful against that memory. :laugh4:

For an eInk device you want to minimize partial screen changes as much as possible. This means a custom UI which is not menu driven. Windows CE does not fit well here because it wants to maintain the Windows look & feel.

That's not entirely correct. Windows CE is an operating system - the graphical "shell" that presents the UI is just a program that it runs. I agree that the standard Windows GUI shell wouldn't work at all well on eInk, but it could trivially be replaced by some kind of menu system. You see examples of that at ATMs, for example; at least in the UK most ATMs run Windows and they use a custom "shell".

That's right - the old CyBook runs CE. CE 3, to be specific.

Is there any specific reason that an eInk device has to run Linux? It's just a display technology - would it not be possible to make a Windows CE machine with an eInk display?

The combination of the old CyBook's software with the battery life of the Sony Reader would make a pretty awesome combination!


And this would give you an "instant on" and µBook and ... - I like that idea :-)

Since there's now a Mobipocket for Linux (using Java), I'd expect to see it on the Cybook.

I filed a feature request to FBReader to support the LIT format (since the convertlit source is available), but they seemed to feel there would be "problems with re-distribution of the module." I suppose someone could make an add-on for FBReader, but if it doesn't come installed on the unit, most folks aren't likely to figure out how to install it (and I'm not talking about the folks here, obviously). It's interesting that the ProcessText folks are distributing a LIT converter, though. They don't charge for that one, but they do sell their other converters, so they'd be fairly easy to track down if someone wanted to make a stink. I wonder if DMCA protection starts to weaken if not enforced, like brand protection?

Since there's now a Mobipocket for Linux (using Java), I'd expect to see it on the Cybook.

I filed a feature request to FBReader to support the LIT format (since the convertlit source is available), but they seemed to feel there would be "problems with re-distribution of the module." I suppose someone could make an add-on for FBReader, but if it doesn't come installed on the unit, most folks aren't likely to figure out how to install it (and I'm not talking about the folks here, obviously). It's interesting that the ProcessText folks are distributing a LIT converter, though. They don't charge for that one, but they do sell their other converters, so they'd be fairly easy to track down if someone wanted to make a stink. I wonder if DMCA protection starts to weaken if not enforced, like brand protection?
LIT is owned by MS. They might have pointed to Process Text that they can't make money of it 'Or Else'!!?!!

The process text people's LIT converter is buggy. It loses the space in front of italics. I dont want my LIT reader to be like that. I prefer to use CLIT to break the DRM and then Book Designer to help with the conversion.

I don't really see any reason to use a separate converter when BD takes the LIT file directly. :shrug:

I don't really see any reason to use a separate converter when BD takes the LIT file directly. :shrug:
But, BD will not take the LIT directly while it is DRM protected. However, since BD uses CLIT 1.8 to read the LIT files, I copied my key for CLIT so now BD will read my DRM protected LIT files. But out of the box, you need DRMless LIT files.

Ah, yeah, I was unclear there -- I meant I didn't see any reason to convert the LIT files to some other format before putting them into BD. :nice:

Bookeen has new additions to their site.
Specifications (http://www.bookeen.com/specs/ebook-specs.aspx) And new pictures (http://www.bookeen.com/gallery/ebook-gallery.aspx).

Bookeen has new additions to their site.
Specifications (http://www.bookeen.com/specs/ebook-specs.aspx) And new pictures (http://www.bookeen.com/gallery/ebook-gallery.aspx).

yes, that's what we've been talking about for the past days...

yes, that's what we've been talking about for the past days...

Newer ones! They were signaled to me by someone there.

yvan, these links are new to me, too. Thanks!

Looks very stylish, this Cybook does!

Open format ebook reader supports multiple ebook formats, including .prc, .pdb. .html, .rtf and .txt.

So now we know the Cybook will at least be able handle the above mentioned formats.

It does look pretty good doesn't it? I also like the fact that they had the honesty not to doctor the greyish color of the screen background .

Y'know, I do believe that is actually a genuine picture, rather than a photo-shop job.

Y'know, I do believe that is actually a genuine picture, rather than a photo-shop job.

Well I've had it in my hands twice but I don't remember if it felt more white than the Sony. It should be at least a bit better, with Vizplex.

True, though I'd really be surprised if Sony didn't switch to Viziplex as soon as it was feasible. :shrug:

True, though I'd really be surprised if Sony didn't switch to Viziplex as soon as it was feasible. :shrug:

I think they will (whether they like it or not -- and why shouldn't they). From what I read earlier (and it might have been wrong), all future E Ink panels produced by PVI will be based on Vizplex.

Newer ones! They were signaled to me by someone there.

Oh, we talked about it in the other topic: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=75980&postcount=37

The new press photo makes the Cybook look two decals away from being a Star Trek:TNG prop.

Waaaiiiiiit....that could be a good thing!

Waaaiiiiiit....that could be a good thing!If you have those two decals, yeah, it could. :vulcan: