Let's assume all of you have JUST paid big bucks for an ebook device like the sony reader or the irex.

So... if a company now announce that within this year, they will beginning to sell a new ebook device...
What kind of features does this device needs to have at what price in order to lure you to buy it instantly?

If it has the features if the iLiad, plus a batterylife like the reader, and maybe even a better eink generation screen, i would go for it. Even if its another 650 Euros.

For me, if some company can offer this in their device for a max price of 500 dollar, i'd jump ships instantly:

Double the DPI of the sony reader (at least 360dpi, or beginning inkjetquality)
SDHC-support or dual slots
Color display.
Builtin lighting (SMD-leds on the frame of the screen)
Battery life must be at least at sony reader's level

And nice to have:
wifi-connectivity (optional)

For me, if some company can offer this in their device for a max price of 500 dollar, i'd jump ships instantly:

Double the DPI of the sony reader (at least 360dpi, or beginning inkjetquality)
SDHC-support or dual slots
Color display.
Builtin lighting (SMD-leds on the frame of the screen)
Battery life must be at least at sony reader's level

And nice to have:
wifi-connectivity (optional)

I sort of agree with you -- because I am a gadget freak and it would be so cool to have. I want a full-page screen (A4) for PDFs too because one can get all sorts of tech books in pdf form these days.

But I would feel guilty :blink: :shy:

Well, I haven't bought a Sony or iRex but got a REB 1200 instead recently (in addition to the existing 1100). For me to upgrade, the main selling points would be:


A4 or half-A4 sized form factor (something similiar to iliad)
touchscreen or some kind of input (a slave touchscreen LCD similiar to hanlin would also do)
extensibility for developing applications similiar to the iliad

To be honest, the iliad meets most of those requirements, but it's too costly at $800. Something around $350 would be better.

1) Bigger screen. I'd really like something closer to letter size.
2) Battery Life. I don't know how they can make an iLiad like device (with regard to a full os with ability to run 3rd party apps and a touchscreen) with a long battery life like the sony, but it would be awesome.
3) Color. Not necessary, but would be nice.
4) Fast screen updates with less ghosting. Might be a generation or two before we see that.
4a) Higher Contrast/Whiter Background. Perhaps pure white isn't possible or even wanted, but it would be nice to be a few shades closer.
5) Bluetooth. Wifi is nice, but to push files and folders to the device over bluetooth would be great.

This is more of a wishlist than a requirement. For me to leave the iLiad I'd need at least #1 or #2. Both would be ideal.

Well, I don't think they're likely to come out with something to make be go for a replacement, the Sony Reader is too well suited to my needs. :shrug:

However, if someone came out with an A4 e-ink device that allowed viewing and annotating PDF files (and able to merge the annotations back into a PDF file), and had a battery life of somewhere in excess of 20 hours (absolute minimum) between charges, I think my wife would likely be interested for paper-grading purposes. Oh yeah, the price would probably have to be under $500.

a feature to turn lead into gold

Many want WiFi or Bluetooth. I wonder if Mirocsoft's surface computing initiative will drive any manufacturers to include that sort of connectivity. I wonder if software support for an automatic Bluetooth connection has to be put in place in a phone or a reader before it can make/receive a connection from the surface computer.

But it wouldn't make me upgrade.

I might not do an upgrade. Unless Sony comes first up with an A4 colo(u)r device with a wider array of mediae and formats. Pipe dream?

While waiting, the EEE will find a comfy nest here.

Dictionary capability :book2:
.RTF ability with pictures & TOC :smash:
Can be folded small enough to fit in a shirt pocket
Faster page turns
Ability to highlight items
Not restricted to seller's I/O software :behead:
Open to third party SW & reader formats

I have paid quite a lot of money for Sony Reader quite recently and I also had to invest considerable effort to be able to get it here - in Central Europe.

I will replace it when it dies. Period.
It does everything I need it for.
If there was version without mp3 player that was $10 cheaper I would have purchased the one without the mp3 player.

I would purchase a new device if it had a MUCH better screen and a price tag under 50 bucks.

must have:

- wireless internet with a real browser
(implies keyboard of some sort)
- A4 page size flexible display
- fit in my pocket
- open platform
- audio

price has to be bellow 300$

My iLiad is working well for me, and I still have my eBw 1150 (and I might have stayed with that if the PDF converter had been available about a month earlier!) There are a few additional features I'd like to have, but most of them are software related (even things like keyboard support), and the user developer community is likely to have them all in hand within the next year. The only thing I really wish my iLiad had that it doesn't is on-board HWR (there is no Linux HWR that I know of), but that's also a software issue and Vision Objects is apparently thinking about porting their products to Linux, so I'd buy that as a software package.

I wouldn't pay anything for a unit with less than what the iLiad has now, but if a new unit were available with better power management-- ideally with built-in solar power-- I'd consider it.

Ok, I might also consider upgrading in a few years to something like eink with a faster display. But I couldn't justify the price of a new iLiad (I bought mine used) unless it could replace my OSX laptop, as well. Nothing I need to do can't be done on Linux except HWR, I think. But a faster display would definitely be needed, and to replace my laptop, I'd also need color (I do some artwork there). For a monochrome display, I couldn't justify paying more than about $350.

Very happy with the Iliad right now - but I keep thinking about two things that would make me open my wallet again.

No. 1 would be a colossal increase in database capabilities - you know, wikipedia, imdb, dictionaries and other reference works by the bucketload, stored on the device or via wi-fi, all connected and easily searched. Anything that gets us closer to a Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

No. 2 would be near-indestructibility. I really feel that e-ink devices, insofar as that is at all possible, need to be much sturdier for me to be completely comfortable with them. When you can drop an e-reader like you can drop a book and nothing happens to it, that'll be a great day.

When you can drop an e-reader like you can drop a book and nothing happens to it, that'll be a great day.I agree completely. Of course, if being ruggedized were the main improvement, I'd probably still hold off on getting one until I dropped the one I have on something hard enough to bust it. :mad:

Maybe the promised flexible displays will be tougher and less expensive if broken.

I have paid quite a lot of money for Sony Reader quite recently and I also had to invest considerable effort to be able to get it here - in Central Europe.

I will replace it when it dies. Period.
It does everything I need it for.
If there was version without mp3 player that was $10 cheaper I would have purchased the one without the mp3 player.



That's why the first posts ask you what kind of features will MAKE you upgrade?

No. 2 would be near-indestructibility. I really feel that e-ink devices, insofar as that is at all possible, need to be much sturdier for me to be completely comfortable with them. When you can drop an e-reader like you can drop a book and nothing happens to it, that'll be a great day.


If it's flexible and scroll-like and when you drop it, it roll up it's flexible display real fast. That'd make it much more sturdy. And maybe fill up the electronics space with non-conducting waterproof gel, so it even becomes machine washable ;)

Be able to read UNDERWATER! at 60 FSW at Tormento's reef at Cozumel!

One thing nobody mentioned that would be a big boon to any reader... More internal memory. Maybe 4gig would do. 2gig for the OS and programs and 2gig for data. That way all these upgrades and hacks and whatnot would have plenty of room. I can picture the day when someone will have to decide what programs to load (on the iLiad) and what not to cause it's not got enough ram.

Be able to read UNDERWATER! at 60 FSW at Tormento's reef at Cozumel!You're scuba diving off of Cozumel, and you can't find anything to hold your attention away from wanting to read? Perhaps you should de-fog your mask. :laugh4:

But I would feel guilty :blink: :shy:

This is the reason why I would not swap my reader with anything else. I think I am going to use it until it dies or at least 3 years old. Then I might consider a replacement which would include:

- next generation eInk screen with features such as:
Better refresh rate, less ghosting, maybe 8-10" instead of 6". I think that would be the only reason that would seduce me for a new reading device.

There are a few more features that I would like to have but they would not be crucial and could not persuade me to part with $350 or more.

Seeing the news (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11463) that the first e-readers with Vizplex technology have already arrived, I think I am ready to upgrade soon.

Easy decision for me because my Reader has already found a new owner (=my wife).

One thing nobody mentioned that would be a big boon to any reader... More internal memory. Maybe 4gig would do. 2gig for the OS and programs and 2gig for data. That way all these upgrades and hacks and whatnot would have plenty of room. I can picture the day when someone will have to decide what programs to load (on the iLiad) and what not to cause it's not got enough ram.

I'm not sure about this. While internal memory can be useful for programs. I prefer using highcapacity memory cards, because 1) they're cheaper and 2) it's always faster to pump data in a m-card with a seperate (fast) cardreader than through a device.

There are a couple of caveats there, athlonkmf. The first is that the memory cards will drain your battery faster, though you'll still get 2~3 weeks between charges, so you may not care about that.

The second is that using memory cards the way you describe means that the Reader has to do all the page parsing, rather than the PC (which is faster at it), and it will re-parse the entire card every time you insert it. That will have an effect on your battery life too, but mostly it's just slow to wait for.

For me, I've found that I prefer to just wait the time that it takes to xfr the files into internal memory. Since I'm rarely moving more than a few files at a time, I don't find the speed to be a burden, I don't have to worry about losing my bookmarks that way, and I get to use collections, which are a particular boon to me.

If you're happy with what you're doing, though, don't let me talk you out of it. :nice:

There are a couple of caveats there, athlonkmf. The first is that the memory cards will drain your battery faster, though you'll still get 2~3 weeks between charges, so you may not care about that.

The second is that using memory cards the way you describe means that the Reader has to do all the page parsing, rather than the PC (which is faster at it), and it will re-parse the entire card every time you insert it. That will have an effect on your battery life too, but mostly it's just slow to wait for.

For me, I've found that I prefer to just wait the time that it takes to xfr the files into internal memory. Since I'm rarely moving more than a few files at a time, I don't find the speed to be a burden, I don't have to worry about losing my bookmarks that way, and I get to use collections, which are a particular boon to me.

If you're happy with what you're doing, though, don't let me talk you out of it. :nice:

Hmm.. the last time I've thrown in a couple of manga in the readers internal memory, the reader still needs to parse it when opening. But then again, these are generally small manga of around 100 pages and 10MB in size, compared to the 200MB 3000+ pages on my card, it's of course nothing.

So I'm wondering if the connect-software actually preparse stuff.

But then again, parsing and indexing only needs to be done once, so...

That's odd. I've never had it parse something that I've loaded through ConnSoft, and it always parsed everything I loaded via the card -- something else must be going on there, athlonkmf, but I'm at a loss as to what. :shrug:

That's odd. I've never had it parse something that I've loaded through ConnSoft, and it always parsed everything I loaded via the card -- something else must be going on there, athlonkmf, but I'm at a loss as to what. :shrug:

When you load an LRF through Connect, you never (in my experience) get any "parsing delays" on the Reader. When I used to use RTF on the Reader, though, there'd be a lengthy delay (several minutes for a large book) on first loading the book, and whenever a different font size was first selected.

When you load an LRF through Connect, you never (in my experience) get any "parsing delays" on the Reader. When I used to use RTF on the Reader, though, there'd be a lengthy delay (several minutes for a large book) on first loading the book, and whenever a different font size was first selected.

Ditto.

Huh. I don't remember having that happen with RTFs either.... but it has been a while since I loaded one. :grin2:

I'm hoping to get 5 years out of the Iliad (year one is nearly gone). Things are changing quickly, though, so it is hard to say. Also, other factors (screen contrast for one) could drive an earlier decision. I like the size of the Iliad. If something were available in that size, more battery life, color, faster screen turn, & some web capability (even if limited) an earlier upgrade might be in order, particularly if volume starts driving the price down.

Personally, I'd want:

4x6" screen, EXPANDABLE to 7x10"
color screen
300dpi minimum
enough internal memory to hold hundreds of graphic novels, in full color at 300dpi, as well as hundreds of books
XML-based text system, not proprietary
wireless web access
included solar recharger
hand-winding or pump recharger
$250 or less


And as a peripheral, I'd want a fast color scanner, to get all those comics and GNs from my collection in there!

(Now you know why I still read e-books on my PDA.):D

My top issues with the Sony reader match up almost exactly with the features that would get me to upgrade. Imagine that!
Higher screen resolution. I'd like at least double the resolution of the Sony Reader. 4x would be better. Sony reader is ~180DPI. I want 360. Or 720DPI. Or... (More. More! I'm still not satisfied!)
Better physical ergonomics. I'm certain that the people who designed the Sony Reader never tried reading from it for hours at a time. After a few hundred page presses, those teeny-weeny sharp-edged buttons are a true pain in the fingers! And the buttons are poorly placed for many users. AND it can't easily be rotated for use in the other hand. And... They should learn from the RCA 1100 device, which was ergonomically great (but lousy screen, and orphaned).
Faster screen update with higher contrast. 10x on both would be great! 2x on both would be enough to get my attention.
Better support for large libraries. I want to be able to find a specific book without paging through 50 to 100 pages of titles. At a minimum of 1 second per page. Yuck!
A somewhat larger screen would be nice. It's not critical though.
Faster connectivity for moving books. It takes a while to move 1GB of books at USB 1.1 speeds.
Built-in lighting (defaulted to OFF, so I only pay a battery penalty when I use it). A built-in Light-wedge equivalent would be lovely! It would both provide lighting for night-time use AND protect the eInk display. A win-win feature.


Some things I really don't care much about: Color. Much larger screen (at least, not for use with reading fiction -- for professional use, I'd want an 8.5x11" display so I could use other peoples .pdf files without having to re-format). Playing music? eh. If I want that I'll use an iPod. Wireless connectivity (not a big deal, although bluetooth would be cool for moving books around).

Anyway... Fix both of the top two issues (or four of the top seven) -- and price it under $500 -- and I'll jump on it in a heartbeat!

Of course, I would insist on being able to use it with my existing library of non-DRM books (all legal!). And to manage it with my Mac. Without those two it is a complete non-starter.

When I started considering a dedicated reader, I realized that I wanted a lot more than just books in there.

I have a big library of magazines, comic books and graphic novels, many of which are boxed because I have no place to put them out (translation: My wife won't let me cover the house with bookcases!). And over the years, I've lost material to damage during storage, or just plain decay. So I would KILL to be able to get all that into a reader (or at least, stored electronically for easy porting into a reader on demand). And it must be color, and 300-600dpi quality, to be workable for graphic novels and comics.

Unfortunately, I realize that that desire has made me a pretty tough customer to satisfy. With a wish list like that, I may not see a reader in my future for quite some time!

There is a tacitus rule in collecting that goes for any mediae. It's that for every currency unit you spend on your hard acquired loot, you must spend the equivalent on organizing and storage.

Since Asia took most furniture markets a couple of years back, I've had to divert towards custom media storage. In doing so I've encountered the same story over and over. People having part of their collections harmed or destroyed until they think of doing something about it.

Advice: Always have an empty or partially empty shelf ahead of time. That will save you quite a bit of trauma. A boxfull of moldy paper is no pretty sight. So is a box of crunched CDs...

Coming to think of it, a burned drive is no better! Backup, boys! When's the last time you did? :grin:

When I started considering a dedicated reader, I realized that I wanted a lot more than just books in there.

I have a big library of magazines, comic books and graphic novels, many of which are boxed because I have no place to put them out (translation: My wife won't let me cover the house with bookcases!). And over the years, I've lost material to damage during storage, or just plain decay. So I would KILL to be able to get all that into a reader (or at least, stored electronically for easy porting into a reader on demand). And it must be color, and 300-600dpi quality, to be workable for graphic novels and comics.

Unfortunately, I realize that that desire has made me a pretty tough customer to satisfy. With a wish list like that, I may not see a reader in my future for quite some time!
While you're waiting, you could start with scanning all your stuff. In this case you will at lease have some kind of a back up when something gets lost again. And when the device does arrive, you will have the files all ready to go :)

Many people have wished for an A4 display rolling out from a pocket device. As electronics shrink, the screen will be the limiting factor. Can anyone envision a screen that folds in two directions without wrinkling? Then once we unfold it (e.g. 2"x3" unfolds to 8"x10") does it have fold marks? There are probably materials that will accommodate folding in two directions, but can we make screens out of them? Then we have the problem of how to hold the flexscreen flat while it is unfurled. It is enough to give a mechanical engineer bad dreams.

The PicoP projector (http://www.microvision.com/AlikInterview2.html) is a small laser projector that can fit in a pocket device like a cell phone or, uh, a reader. It would project a perfectly focused screen image onto many different surfaces at a range of distances. But we have a similar problem. How do we keep the screen image from joggling about as we hold the reader?

I can envision a projector mounted on the headboard of the bed and projecting onto the ceiling. But the projector must be fixed. Maybe the reader is a device that looks like a pocket-sized game console and has a wireless connection to the projector. Maybe it has a small screen for reading when the projector is not available or when it is not practical to use a projection surface from which to read.

My masculine intuition tells me that when somebody markets a reader with a larger screen it will not be a flexscreen. It will either be fixed in size or contain a projector. The flexscreen will be limited to unfurling in one dimension and so will be limited in height or width to pocket size.

A really good solution to the big screen problem would capture some of my money.

I remember watching/reading about this technology for directly painting images on the retina using lasers...sounds scary but if it worked it would be the perfect solution.

In Hawkins' book On Intelligence, he talks about how adaptable the brain is in terms of pattern recognition. He mentions a technology that puts patterns of vibrating nodes on the palate. In a short (?) time the brain learns to recognize the patterns as images. Something close to this might give is an auxiliary neural input that, by training, we can optimize for reading.

Imagine a reader you put in your mouth!

Edit: I tried to track this down. There is a technology for enhancing speech recognition called "Tadoma (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1533433&dopt=Abstract)". In following leads regarding a visual-tactile input display I found this article (PDF warning) (http://stinet.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA410436&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf)which describes two way tactile communication using the tongue and palate. It has pictures too. Here (http://www.ifp.uiuc.edu/IDFL/results/resultsbeebe.html) is a good (but long) article on this technology. If you have had the urge to put electronic devices in your mouth, you might be interested in a couple of articles on electropalatography: here (http://medical.ukc.ac.uk/research/EPG/Cb/CB.html) and here (http://www.qmuc.ac.uk/ssrc/DownSyndrome/EPGpatterns.htm).

One of my friends has a gadget for his Pocket PC which projects a laser image of a keyboard onto a desk and detects "typing" on the image. It works amazingly well!

Are you kidding or have you really seen you? :rolleyes:

Can anyone envision a screen that folds in two directions without wrinkling? Then once we unfold it (e.g. 2"x3" unfolds to 8"x10") does it have fold marks? There are probably materials that will accommodate folding in two directions, but can we make screens out of them? Then we have the problem of how to hold the flexscreen flat while it is unfurled. It is enough to give a mechanical engineer bad dreams.

That one had occurred to me, too. But I think the folding aspect would be its downfall. The best you could do would be to create a very thin hinge at the fold, but I can't imagine it not being visible, and bisecting your images.

An idea that occurred to me afterward, was a series of screen-layers, one atop the other, that could be selectively slid outward. Imagine a set of four playing cards: At default, they are piled on each other, and create a screen the size of one card. Now, slide one over until the edges touch, and you have a screen the size of 2 cards. Now slide two up, and one of those two over... you have a 4-card-sized screen. This would hopefully give you a hinge-less surface, or at least, eliminate the concern for folds.

I've also imagines various forms of hinged arms that would stretch the screen between the hardware and the arm... the act of folding the arm outward would pull the screen to a larger size, potentially doubling its surface. This could either pull on a flexible screen, or sliding screens (like the cards described above).

Are you kidding or have you really seen you? :rolleyes:I've seen such a device on a gadget show on cable. I think they retail for about $300.

Ah, here's a link (http://www.crazyaboutgadgets.com/detail.asp?ID=686). :smile:

WOW!!! :smash:

That's odd. I've never had it parse something that I've loaded through ConnSoft, and it always parsed everything I loaded via the card -- something else must be going on there, athlonkmf, but I'm at a loss as to what. :shrug:

I finally gotten around to test my claim, and you're right, when using the connect software to move files around, there is indeed no need for parsing anymore.

Actually I had to use the connectreader to upload becase the reader couldn't parse it on it's own it seemed. I was actually testing FAT32-SDcards and for some reason the parsing takes longer than with FAT-formatted cards.

Anyhow. That's because I've ordered a 4GB card just to test things out. I'd receive that next week, so I was just testing if the reader supports FAT32. If so, the chance that the 4GB-card could work is higher. Well, we'll see. I believe i'm the only one around who could actually test the 4GB limit correctly, since my ebooks-collection now is 4GB :D

Anyhow. That's because I've ordered a 4GB card just to test things out. I'd receive that next week, so I was just testing if the reader supports FAT32. If so, the chance that the 4GB-card could work is higher. Well, we'll see. I believe i'm the only one around who could actually test the 4GB limit correctly, since my ebooks-collection now is 4GB :D
One of the wiki pages (http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Sony_Reader_Memorycards) has card compatibility info.

One of the wiki pages (http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Sony_Reader_Memorycards) has card compatibility info.

I know, i've read it already, but those 4GB cards, although it was mentioned that the reader could read them, never got verified that they're fully readable.

We've had a discussion (possibly several) around here some time back on that topic. The bottom line seems to be that it'll handle a 4GB SD card, but it will only read the first 2GB. Which is kinda annoying, but it's also what Sony spec'ed, so I don't guess we have too much room to fuss. :shrug:

Yes, the Reader only handles 2G SD cards. If you use a Sony Memory Stick you might be able to use a 4G, but I have never tried it. The 4G SD cards are either SDHD cards, a newer standard, or require special handling by an ordinary SD device in order to see all of the SD memory. The Reader doesn't support 4G. For a no-tears solution, stick with 2G. It is plenty large anyway.

That's the one. It wasn't anywhere near $300 - I think he paid about £70 ($140) for it. It connects to the Pocket PC by Bluetooth. Works great, as I say!

That's the one. It wasn't anywhere near $300 - I think he paid about £70 ($140) for it. It connects to the Pocket PC by Bluetooth. Works great, as I say!:blink: Huh? :blink:

:blink: Huh? :blink:

Most likely HarryT reffers to your reply to me:
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=74994&postcount=44

Most likely HarryT reffers to your reply to me:
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=74994&postcount=44
Ah yes, the ever popular projected virtual keyboard. The first time I saw this was in a show called "CSI: Miami" where they tried to figure out what the person wrote from the smudges on the desk where the keyboard was projected. Slick, but over priced.

:blink: Huh? :blink:

Sorry - I seem to have overlooked a page in the topic; yes, it was the laser-projected virtual keyboard that you posted a link to that I was referring to.

Apologies for the confusion :grin:.

Ah yes, the ever popular projected virtual keyboard. The first time I saw this was in a show called "CSI: Miami" where they tried to figure out what the person wrote from the smudges on the desk where the keyboard was projected. Slick, but over priced.

Overpriced for a PC keyboard yes, but not for an "add-on" keyboard for a Palm or Pocket PC; it's about the same price as the "physical" fold-up Bluetooth external keyboards for those.

... and a GREAT way to impress people when you turn up for a meeting and switch it on :grin:.

They are pretty much the "ultimate cool" in gadgets, IMHO. I have a perfectly good fold-up keyboard for my Pocket PC, but I think I'm going to buy one of the laser ones simply because - well, because. They are SO cool!

A compelling upgrade to the Sony Reader for me would feature:

Native drag-and-drop via Windows Explorer, with standard file/folder directories. No proprietary file management.
Higher contrast for a truly paper-white background and jet-black text
Bluetooth for document transfer and VCard synchronization
A PIM, as implied by the previous feature
Onboard document deletion, or a button to mark for deletion on synch
Native HTML support
Native HTML support
Almost forgot: native HTML support
Proxyless RSS
Better button placement, as Xenophon said. The upper paging buttons should by moved from the center of the edge to the upper third or higher, closer to where the thumb naturally rests. And they should be tapered rather than sharp-edged. The bottom page button on the same side, IMO, is useless, requiring either a contortion of the left thumb to access or an assist from the opposite hand that's not holding the device. Since page turning is far more frequent than page/menu navigation, the button and joystick positions should be swapped.

I defiantly do not want any compatibility with vcard or Outlook (express or not). That would be a reason not to purchase the device.

wifi suport would be nice so I could go someplace wifi capable and get online. The support for a keyboard and mouse would be nice.

The iLiad is sorta almost there. But it would need some hardwaqre and software upgrades. Like an A4 (for PDF) screen, keyboard and mouse ports, the newer faster better contrast screen in A4 size resolution. Faster processor with better battery management. Maybe two batteries. One to run some parts of it and some to run others. Support for LRF, LIT, PDB would be good to get it out there for readers.

And a price tag of no more then $500. Less if possible.

:blink: Huh? :blink:
Most likely HarryT reffers to your reply to me:
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=74994&postcount=44
Sorry - I seem to have overlooked a page in the topic; yes, it was the laser-projected virtual keyboard that you posted a link to that I was referring to.

Apologies for the confusion :grin:.Ah, yes. That would make sense. Don't worry about confusing me, I've grown used to being confused -- clarity is over-rated. :mad:

My excuse this time was that I had just waked up, otherwise I might have figured it out. :grin:

Let's assume all of you have JUST paid big bucks for an ebook device like the sony reader or the irex.

So... if a company now announce that within this year, they will beginning to sell a new ebook device...
What kind of features does this device needs to have at what price in order to lure you to buy it instantly?

E-paper technology - double a4 touchscreen display - 32 levels of gray - 65k colours - wifi - bluetooth - long duration battery (12k pages) - faster refresh rates (less than 0,15 sec) - no built-in drm - universal reader upgradable - lightweight - 4 giga built-in memory - expansion ports - 25:1 contrat ratio - target price 400 euros:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::

E-paper technology - double a4 touchscreen display - 32 levels of gray - 65k colours - wifi - bluetooth - long duration battery (12k pages) - faster refresh rates (less than 0,15 sec) - no built-in drm - universal reader upgradable - lightweight - 4 giga built-in memory - expansion ports - 25:1 contrat ratio - target price 400 euros:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::
No built-in DRM = no ebook support for the average person. That means it won't sell.

E-paper technology - double a4 touchscreen display - 32 levels of gray - 65k colours - wifi - bluetooth - long duration battery (12k pages) - faster refresh rates (less than 0,15 sec) - no built-in drm - universal reader upgradable - lightweight - 4 giga built-in memory - expansion ports - 25:1 contrat ratio - target price 400 euros:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::

Laptop? :shrug:

No built-in DRM = no ebook support for the average person. That means it won't sell.

DRM = no eBook that anyone wants to pay money for. That means it won't sell.

Any eBook reader who's sole format is DRMed is doomed to fail. Any eBook reader that doesn't support open eBook formats is doomed to fail.

And you are wrong: no DRM support doesn't mean that the eBook reader won't sell. It means that the Content Cartel won't sell it.

Laptop? :shrug:

Duration of 12k page refresh not supported :)

Duration of 12k page refresh not supported :)
Only if you spend the time turning the pages in the 3-4 hour battery life. Of course, you won't get any reading done, but you will get the pages turned. :book2:

DRM = no eBook that anyone wants to pay money for. That means it won't sell.

Any eBook reader who's sole format is DRMed is doomed to fail. Any eBook reader that doesn't support open eBook formats is doomed to fail.

And you are wrong: no DRM support doesn't mean that the eBook reader won't sell. It means that the Content Cartel won't sell it.
The reader can still support non-DRM formats. But it would need at least one DRM format in order to allow people to purchase books you cannot get otherwsie. The average person would just go to some online shop, purchase a book, and happily go off and read on his/her reader. And if it had open formats as well then it would make the geeks happy too.

The reader can still support non-DRM formats. But it would need at least one DRM format in order to allow people to purchase books you cannot get otherwsie.

If the eBook has DRM on it, it's not a "purchase". It's a "rental". No one purchases eBooks that have DRM on it.

If the eBook has DRM on it, it's not a "purchase". It's a "rental". No one purchases eBooks that have DRM on it.

Thats finickiness. You still "purchase" the ebook, even if you cant do anything you like with it. "rent" would imply, you would pay a regular amount over the period you have the book. So neither word really fits the actual act. Legally you purchase. But you are still right, when you say DRM sucks ;)

I'd say it's closer to a software license type of arrangement than a rental. :shrug:

If the eBook has DRM on it, it's not a "purchase". It's a "rental". No one purchases eBooks that have DRM on it.

Not so. You are buying the medium (the file) and a licence to run it on your specific device. Computer software works the same way.

It's not too far removed from buying a paper book. You are buying the sheets of paper, but not the "ownership" of the contents. You can't go out and re-publish that content and sell it for yourself. Generally speaking, you have no rights at all over that content.

It's not too far removed from buying a paper book. You are buying the sheets of paper, but not the "ownership" of the contents. You can't go out and re-publish that content and sell it for yourself. Generally speaking, you have no rights at all over that content.

I'm not a proponent of DRM, but it's also very similar to paper in that you aren't able to transfer it to another medium (easily).

Technically speaking, given the various tools out there, you can do more with a DRM'ed electronic copy of a book, than you can a dead tree version.

I'm not a proponent of DRM, but it's also very similar to paper in that you aren't able to transfer it to another medium (easily).

Technically speaking, given the various tools out there, you can do more with a DRM'ed electronic copy of a book, than you can a dead tree version.

I honestly don't see what all the fuss is about DRM :grin:.

Generally with a paperback book, I'll buy it, read it, and then toss it away. Very few books are "keepers" for me. If I buy a DRM'ed book, I'm not going to lose too much sleep over whether or not I'll be able to read it in 10 years time - I almost certainly won't want to.

If the eBook has DRM on it, it's not a "purchase". It's a "rental". No one purchases eBooks that have DRM on it.
Do you buy movies on DVD?

Oh, don't encourage him, JSWolf! :nice:

Thats finickiness. You still "purchase" the ebook, even if you cant do anything you like with it. "rent" would imply, you would pay a regular amount over the period you have the book. So neither word really fits the actual act. Legally you purchase. But you are still right, when you say DRM sucks ;)

No. Legally when I purchase, I have certain rights. Those rights are taken away by DRM.

"Rent" is probably the wrong term. I use it because it's simple and people recognize that it means "you don't own" when you use it.

The correct term is "license". When you pay money for an eBook, you are not purchasing the eBook. You are purchasing a license (a very limited license) to use the eBook. Interestingly, that's pretty much the same license you get when you check out a book at the local library - for free.

Not so. You are buying the medium (the file) and a licence to run it on your specific device. Computer software works the same way.

It's not too far removed from buying a paper book. You are buying the sheets of paper, but not the "ownership" of the contents. You can't go out and re-publish that content and sell it for yourself. Generally speaking, you have no rights at all over that content.

Wrong. When I purchase a pBook, I have a certain set of rights relating to the physical book. I can do anything I want to with that pBook - up to making a copy of it.

With DRM, if I get an eBook, I have no rights.

That's why DRM means "Digital Restriction Management."

I honestly don't see what all the fuss is about DRM :grin:.

Generally with a paperback book, I'll buy it, read it, and then toss it away. Very few books are "keepers" for me. If I buy a DRM'ed book, I'm not going to lose too much sleep over whether or not I'll be able to read it in 10 years time - I almost certainly won't want to.

I buy it, read it, then sell it to the used book store. I used to get many books at the used book store.

DRM prohibits this with eBooks. Which wouldn't be too bad - if eBooks with DRM were priced correctly (like $1) instead of at hardcover prices.

The pricing of ebooks has to do with the price of the current paper edition. So if the ebook is alsoin hardcover it will cost more. If it's in paperback, it will cost less. That's how they price ebooks. But, I would have bought a few ebooks that are in hardback if they priced them like they were in paperback while still in hardback.

The pricing of ebooks has to do with the price of the current paper edition.

Of which over 80% (according to the documentation I've seen from publishers) represents the costs of having to deal with physical object.

Those costs do not exist with eBooks and should not be part of the eBook cost.

I'm sure that some of that 80% will still be needed to deal with the e-version (servers, bandwidth, electricity), but surely not all that much of it -- your point is still well taken, rluazon.

If a book is available in hardcover, I probably will not purchase it for myself. I'll either wait until the library has it or I'll wait until it is in paperback.

Now the ebook edition is going to be priced too expensive. The paperback most likely will be $7.99. If that's the case, while the hardcover is out, pricing the ebook at $6.99 with whatever discounts the various vendors give would be fine by me. It means I might actually purchase it. Whereas if I do get it from the library, the publisher makes nothing as I have not purchased the book. So keeping the prices high (IMHO) loses more sales of ebooks then they get.

I think that the pubs/authors actually do get some compensation from library borrowings, but I'm not certain of the details. :shrug:

Of which over 80% (according to the documentation I've seen from publishers) represents the costs of having to deal with physical object.

Those costs do not exist with eBooks and should not be part of the eBook cost.

according to what I've read in several newspapers concerning costs of schoolbooks, 50%-75% is actually pure profit for the author, distributor, etc.

according to what I've read in several newspapers concerning costs of schoolbooks, 50%-75% is actually pure profit for the author, distributor, etc.Publisher & and distributer I'd believe, but I'm a bit skeptical that the author gets all that much on a per book basis .... Then again, textbooks are a different animal, since the potential authors are a fairly select group of people, so maybe that's closer to right than I think it is. :shrug:

I think that the pubs/authors actually do get some compensation from library borrowings, but I'm not certain of the details. :shrug:

Not in the US. Some countries (Canada, UK) have a scheme for this. But unless you are a huge best-seller, it works out to be peanuts (or less).

Ah, I see. Thanks Xenophon! :nice:

Publisher & and distributer I'd believe, but I'm a bit skeptical that the author gets all that much on a per book basis .... Then again, textbooks are a different animal, since the potential authors are a fairly select group of people, so maybe that's closer to right than I think it is. :shrug:
Textbook authors get next to nothing, at least for college textbooks. Grade school textbooks are usually written by committee anyway. The publisher makes pretty good money, I think. (And the textbooks are pretty lousy, if the ones my kids have are a reasonable sample.)

The correct term is "license". When you pay money for an eBook, you are not purchasing the eBook. You are purchasing a license (a very limited license) to use the eBook.

And exactly the same is true when you "buy" a paper book too :grin:.

If the company that licenses you a book goes belly-up and no one buys the license for service, what happens to these books as the devices storing them fail?

It already happened once. See Embiid (http://rolanni.livejournal.com/190140.html).

And exactly the same is true when you "buy" a paper book too :grin:.

Actually, it's not true for a paper book.

When you buy a copy of a paper book, that's exactly what you are paying for. You can do anything you want to with that paper book - except make a copy. Even making a copy, under certain conditions, is permitted under Fair Use.

When you get a DRMed eBook, you can do nothing with it except read it with the proprietary reader it needs. You are not guaranteed that you will be able to read it on another device. You are not guaranteed that you will be able to read it next week. You certainly cannot re-sell it, give it away, etc. (i.e. all the things you can do with a paper book).

When you get a DRMed eBook, you can do nothing with it except read it with the proprietary reader it needs.

Sorry - I really don't see what the problem is with this. I can read it with the proprietory reader it needs - that's exactly what I bought it for. I don't want to do anything else with it.

Perhaps the difference between our viewpoints is that I don't regard an eBook as a "lifetime investment". It's a few hours of entertainment that I paid a few $ for, and that's how I regard it. I don't expect to be able to read it in 20 years time, and more than I expect to be able to read a paperback I buy today in 20 years time. If I want to re-read it in 20 years, I'll buy another copy then. Books are cheap!

Is there a finite use with a license contract? Meaning that when they say it's over it's over, you can't use that ebook any more!

I just posted something a minute ago and it just disappeared. What happened to it? and I believe I saw a reply from Harry at the same time???!??

Hey now it's come back...weird! (music from The Twilight Zone)

Sorry - I really don't see what the problem is with this. I can read it with the proprietory reader it needs - that's exactly what I bought it for. I don't want to do anything else with it.

Perhaps the difference between our viewpoints is that I don't regard an eBook as a "lifetime investment". It's a few hours of entertainment that I paid a few $ for, and that's how I regard it. I don't expect to be able to read it in 20 years time, and more than I expect to be able to read a paperback I buy today in 20 years time. If I want to re-read it in 20 years, I'll buy another copy then. Books are cheap!
Maybe someone could set up a service proposing that you can read such or such book for a lesser price than the sevice offered now and when you land on the last page... Poof! it disappears. Just like the ball on that last minigolf hole.:vanish:

Maybe someone could set up a service proposing that you can read such or such book for a lesser price than the sevice offered now and when you land on the last page... Poof! it disappears. Just like the ball on that last minigolf hole.:vanish:

That's the way DRM worked on the original Sony Librie - you "rented" content and it vanished after a certain number of days. It didn't prove to be a terribly popular system :grin:.

Well there you go! Finally people's money talked!

Sorry - I really don't see what the problem is with this. I can read it with the proprietory reader it needs - that's exactly what I bought it for. I don't want to do anything else with it.

That's today. What about tomorrow?

Perhaps the difference between our viewpoints is that I don't regard an eBook as a "lifetime investment". It's a few hours of entertainment that I paid a few $ for, and that's how I regard it. I don't expect to be able to read it in 20 years time, and more than I expect to be able to read a paperback I buy today in 20 years time. If I want to re-read it in 20 years, I'll buy another copy then. Books are cheap!

There are two ways to read a book:
1. Buy a copy.
2. Borrow a copy.

When you buy it, you get certain rights. If you want, you can keep it forever. You can sell it on eBay. You can give it to a friend. Level out a table with it.

When you borrow it, you don't get many rights at all. You must return it. You can't sell it and you can't give it away.
But the upside is that it's free to borrow a book from the library.

My argument is that a DRMed eBook is no different from borrowing a pBook from the library. You get the same thing. You have the same rights. That being the case, the price of the DRMed eBook should match that of borrowing from the library.

But how much do eBooks cost (especially ones in closed, proprietary formats)? Usually more than the paperback cost. Sometimes more than the hardcover version.

If you are fine paying paper price for an eBook, that's your problem. But I (and most people I know) find that to be a very, very, very poor value.

And that doesn't even get into the issue of permitting media companies to control how, when and where we can read books.

If the company that licenses you a book goes belly-up and no one buys the license for service, what happens to these books as the devices storing them fail?
From what I gather, if the files are DRM protected and you no longer have any way of reading them, then you are well and truly screwed.

That's the way DRM worked on the original Sony Librie - you "rented" content and it vanished after a certain number of days. It didn't prove to be a terribly popular system :grin:.
The DivX rental system (when DVDs first came out) wasn't a terribly good idea. You needed a player capable of playing them and a phone line to authorize them to be played.

The way I look at is this... There is a possibility that some company other then Sony might someday come out with a reader that I want more then my current Sony. If I do it right here, I can take most of my books and move them to this new device. But if I go purchasing my books from Sony in their proprietary closed DRM laden format, I very well and truly may get stuck with books I can never read again on some other reader. So unless someone comes out with a way to break the DRM and do a proper conversion from LRX files, then I won't be purchasing books from Sony once my credit with them is over. Yes I will purchase books from Sony using my credit since they are essentially free.

Yes I will purchase books from Sony using my credit since they are essentially free.Hey! That's the price point that rlauzon likes for DRMed books too! :wink2:

Oh, I'll still buy DRMed ebooks. Just ones I can deal with that does not have an end of life when my Sony Reader is no longer my reader of Choice.

I have a suggestion. Buy boring books in DRM. That way you won't miss'em! :laugh4:

I just buy in a format I can convert and then I'm good to go.

I have a few that I'm kinda interested in reading, but don't expect to want to re-read that I expect I'll pick up from the ConnStore (which does have them). Anything I suspect I'll want long-term I'll hold out for something that I can more reliably access down the road.

Of course, if DE takes off, and the ConnStore starts stocking that format, then the whole equation changes. :wink:

I have a few that I'm kinda interested in reading, but don't expect to want to re-read that I expect I'll pick up from the ConnStore (which does have them). Anything I suspect I'll want long-term I'll hold out for something that I can more reliably access down the road.

Of course, if DE takes off, and the ConnStore starts stocking that format, then the whole equation changes. :wink:
But, if Sony supports DE and has DE formatted books for ale at the Connect Store, will we actually be able to find them? :oops2:

Yeah, well, you know. :laugh4:

The Sony Connect Store is the only store that has a this new category of books. This category is Books we sell, but will not let you know we sell.

Not in the US. Some countries (Canada, UK) have a scheme for this. But unless you are a huge best-seller, it works out to be peanuts (or less).

That's right. The very most you can be paid from the UK scheme is a couple of thousand pounds a year - say US$4000. It's a nice "extra", but certainly not enough to live on.

The Sony Connect Store is the only store that has a this new category of books. This category is Books we sell, but will not let you know we sell.Shhh! That one's a secret! :laugh4:

Shhh! That one's a secret! :laugh4:
So are all the books we can't find that they supposedly sell.

Hey Wolf. Which Formats will Book Designer convert besides PD?

I'm not sure what you mean by a "PD" format, Roy White ....

But here's the list from the BD help file. :nice:

In reply to the original topic:


16 shades of gray or better.*
Battery life similar to the Sony Reader
SDHC support
Pan and Zoom support in PDFs.*
HTML support
Under 250USD**



*Just so I can read my favorite comics, along side my books, more practically on the go.

**Though I would settle for a higher price tag if the device had a large (8+") roll-out display.

When this (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12444) one comes along. Until then the Sony's adequate enough.

I would like to have reader with whiter, 8-9" screen, less ghosting and being able to read HTML and pdf...then maybe in a couple of years I would switch :)

All of this with the same battery life as Sony Reader has today.

If it had everything the iliad had plus a decent battery life I would seriously consider it

If it has the features if the iLiad, plus a batterylife like the reader, and maybe even a better eink generation screen, i would go for it. Even if its another 650 Euros.

bingo. except for the 650 euros.
max i'll ever pay is US $300.

I just got a PRS-505. It wouldn't take much for me to upgrade next year.

- Increase the screen size to paperback novel size.
- Double the DPI.
- 16 shades.
- Keep it around $300 USD.
- No heavier than the PRS-505 (hopefully lighter!).

For my uses, that'd be absolutely delicious.

The device needs to be able to survive dropping to the floor repeatedly.

I am one of those guys that fall asleep with a book in their hands. The book then either drops on my forehead, or on the floor (depending on the position I was last in before dozing off :P )

On a sidenote; the former (dropping on my forehead) made me stop buying hardcover books. The last hardcover book I bought was Robert Jordan's 'A Knife of Dreams'. 780 pages covered in rock-hard paperback dropping on the nugging do hurt ... I can tell you ;)

The device needs to be able to survive dropping to the floor repeatedly.

I am one of those guys that fall asleep with a book in their hands. The book then either drops on my forehead, or on the floor (depending on the position I was last in before dozing off :P )

On a sidenote; the former (dropping on my forehead) made me stop buying hardcover books. The last hardcover book I bought was Robert Jordan's 'A Knife of Dreams'. 780 pages covered in rock-hard paperback dropping on the nugging do hurt ... I can tell you ;)

Try reading in bed.

Try reading in bed.

That's what I was actually trying to describe :P

Q.: So you have a ebook device. When will you upgrade?
A.: When B&H get the reader in a stock!

That's what I was actually trying to describe :P You must be too close to the edge of the bed if your unit ends up on the floor.

The device needs to be able to survive dropping to the floor repeatedly.


All my reading devices (Sony, CyBook, iLiad) manage this just fine. I fall asleep reading more often than not, and wake up to find it on the floor. They've all survived that "drop test" just fine :).

Yes, the Reader only handles 2G SD cards. If you use a Sony Memory Stick you might be able to use a 4G, but I have never tried it. The 4G SD cards are either SDHD cards, a newer standard, or require special handling by an ordinary SD device in order to see all of the SD memory. The Reader doesn't support 4G. For a no-tears solution, stick with 2G. It is plenty large anyway.

The Sony PRS-505 supports (1) 210MB internal flash, (2) up to a 2GB SD card, and (3) up to an 8GB MSPD all concurrently. It also works as a card reader for all 3 when plugged into any USB port.

There are about 3 Sony models, so it gets confusing. It would be less confusing if everyone quoted model numbers for the devices they are referring to.

I honestly don't see what all the fuss is about DRM :grin:.

Generally with a paperback book, I'll buy it, read it, and then toss it away. Very few books are "keepers" for me. If I buy a DRM'ed book, I'm not going to lose too much sleep over whether or not I'll be able to read it in 10 years time - I almost certainly won't want to.

The fuss is this: We still have works printed in the middle ages, because someone preserved a copy. We are entering a digital dark age due to DRM, where we will loose everything printed over decades - unless a few of us fight it. Pirate torrents may save our civilization.

Do you buy movies on DVD?

No, I don't.

To get me to upgrade from the PRS-505, just add any of these:

1. More formats (.chm, .html, .lit, .ogg)
2. Load files w/o a PC (USB OTG or network connection)
3. Text Input, (keyboard, or Touch Screen)
4. Let me read the PDF without tiny text (Larger screen, or Arbitrary zoom & panning, or let me adjust the margins)
5. SDK
6. Directory Browsing
7. The ability to play with it before buying.

You’ve got me thinking about dropping my PRS-505 for an iRex or an Hanlin, if I can ever see one up close.

Andy

To be honest, I would 100% forget the Hanlin. This WOLF format is dodgy at best.

The iLiad however is a good choice. But not cheap. I would just hang onto the 505 until something significantly better comes along.

Not in the US. Some countries (Canada, UK) have a scheme for this. But unless you are a huge best-seller, it works out to be peanuts (or less).

Unless you sell textbooks. Well, it's still peanuts but unless you're lucky enough to have every teacher / lecturer in the country insisting that people buy your book the library is the main source of profit. :)

I'm talking about what I know from the UK though, can't say how it works out for others.

I wont upgrade until my prs 500 kicks the bucket. It aint got tons of bells and whistles, but it lets me read which is all I want to do with it.

To be honest, I would 100% forget the Hanlin. This WOLF format is dodgy at best.

The iLiad however is a good choice. But not cheap. I would just hang onto the 505 until something significantly better comes along.

Even without Wolf the Hanlin does support a lot of formats. One thing that I do not understand is their need for another me-to product in the V3. The V2 had a nice text entry area that could be used for searches, notes, etc. and the V2t even has a full touch screen but neither of those are available outside of China. In my mind they could exploit those hardware features into the category of something better. I would like to see a more acceptable format than WOLF but that only requires a firmware update and if they were to open up the OS it could probably be added by the users. Getting eReader support would be an interesting twist.

Just a little more aggressive support from Jinke could give us a nice horse race.

Dale

I am surprised nobody has gone for the eReader crowd to be honest. It would be a market that none of the other eink devices have captured.

Maybe eReader doesn't want to play with the various e ink vendors?

After seeing someone with a real book right next to my PRS-505 in low light the other day, I'd add "Increased contrast." to my list of things to get me to upgrade.

I was pleasantly surprised by the PRS-505 at first, after all the "grey on greyer" comments I wasn't sure what to expect, but it's not bad at all. But it sure does seem far from real black on white paper in low light.

I have to admit, the increased contrast might get me as well. I have very good night vision, but I have to really crank up the font size on my iLiad to be able to read at night using the little LED clip on book light I got to avoid keeping my husband awake. And not all my books are amenable to this kind of tweaking. :(

Some offerings that would get me to open my pocketbook:


Larger display for reading technical PDFs/Magazines/Newspapers.
Plastic Logics prototypes for sale in USA (I'd hawk my house for one of those big and skinny beauties.:D)
Color
Adjustable fonts. Love that feature on my Kindle.
Greater contrast between background and fonts.
Ability to adjust the contrast (if possible given the technology).
Built in reading light or some kind of option that would include a clip on "built for the unit" type of reading light. :bulb2:
Ability to read multi format documents without conversion.
Even better book-like 'feel' to the device. :bookworm:
A device that keeps and merges the best elements of all of the current and past readers.

Whew! :2thumbsup

OK, feature list to get me to replace the Sony 505:

better contrast
slightly bigger screen at higher resolution - 200ppi or so and 7" to match a paperback page
more memory, deal with it better
better UI - easier page turning and library navigation
fewer bugs. Stories of bricked books scare me.

For that feature list I'd pay another $300 or so, but not for a while. It's just not really compelling.

But the big step of to me would be the "eNotepad", something that I can write in as well as read from, and ideally with better connectivity. To be honest, even if it was hardback size I would buy it if it meant I could dump my cellphone and paper notebook.

more contrast as resolution as above
bigger screen, folding out to A5 or so
touch screen/sketchpad
image library separate from book library (store what I draw)
cellphone with bluetooth headset
ideally a reference library too - books that I can search kept separately from ones that I just read.
on screen keyboard mode for sms/email
(and for bonus points) colour and camera. If this was hardback size I wouldn't argue with a phone-size LCD on the front with a 2-3MP camera so I can "scan" stuff and view colour images. Keeping the main screen in black and white is fine by me.


Finally, content is the real king for me. If someone could tie in the various online magazine subscriptions and get them to settle on a common format that would rock. Currently it's almost easier for me to scan a paper magazine than download an issue of MakeZine or VeloVision. I don't object to DRM in the short term, I'd buy a subscription that was DRMed as long as I was guaranteed the non-DRM editions later - either at the end of the year or emailed to me after a few months. I demand to be able to read the magazine in 20 years time.

Backup, boys! When's the last time you did?

I just spent the best part of a year ripping and scanning music CDs, partly for this reason. Some CDs I had to try in four or five readers before I could get a clean rip. Scanning the artwork persuaded me to buy an A3 scanner, it's just too annoying having to stitch scans together manually. I've also upgraded to a pair of 2TB WB MyBooks for backup, TrueCrypt 5.0 to make sure MY backup stays mine, and a pair of 20" LCDs to read on. Oh, and a Sony reader for portability. But backup... religiously. Everything gets backed up off the RAID5 array at least weekly, and every month or so I swap the off-site backup drive for the one in the house. It's just too hard to replace all the content (I take a lot of photos). But also, dumping 50kg of music CDs was also a big win for me. Even a (big) PC and a couple of external drives is smaller than that many CDs.

I'm not looking to replace any time soon, but in order for me to even be tempted it would have to be:
1. Much, much faster
2. More durable
I'm not much interested in adding any features. The Sony is very good for linear reading, but is much to slow for anything else like reference books. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. Some of the other readers have taken the approach of adding features that poorly mimic those on a PC. I'm happy with a reader AND a computer or PDA. When I'm reading I usually want to be away from the computer........ (c8




PCH

I would be interested in:

1. bigger screen - 9.7" (so PDf files can be viewed in a landscape mode without any editing).

Following up by nice features but absolutely not neccessary (only if implementing the features would not downgrade a current set of features my Sony PRS-505 has).

2. dictionary support - more wanted than the next feature.

3. word search through a particular book.

I'm a little surprised that several people are rooting for a bigger screen. I wouldn't want a device any bigger than my Sony at any price -- lightweight portability is very important to me.

I'm a little surprised that several people are rooting for a bigger screen. I wouldn't want a device any bigger than my Sony at any price -- lightweight portability is very important to me.

I also want a bigger screen. Not by much. Just another inch in height. The could add this without changing the size of the unit overall. So the device wouldn't be any bigger. Also a better resulotion - very important. Better contrast and brightness. Faster page turns isn't that important to me, I got used to it, I don't notice it anymore. On the other hand, touchscreen eInk, a la iPhone, is a feature I wouldn't mind having.

But what I would really want is a more durable device. I want something more like my flash mp3 player. A device that can survive being chucked across the room... being dropped into a bag... something that will feel robust, more like a real physical book and less like an electronic device.

I'm a little surprised that several people are rooting for a bigger screen. I wouldn't want a device any bigger than my Sony at any price -- lightweight portability is very important to me.

I would like to have one for home use mainly.
I really love hardback printed books. I like the size of the text and how much of the text fits into the page. A bigger screen, such as 9.7" would allow me the same luxury but on eInk instead of a heavy book (the best font size for me is when I creat a book in BD with base font size 10, then go to medium size, however, it reduces the amount of text that fits into 1 page, so I use mostly small size....but dream of medium...(now, I feel like I have said something wrong, so I clarify - small/medium zoom in sony reader!))

Also I would like it for reading technical PDFs without any conversions. Even if I have to travel with it, you should agree that 9.7" eInk reader is easier to travel with than with 1400 pages tome of Windows XP Professional 070-270.

I read a lot of journal PDFs. Many of them use a two-column format, and that's quite painful to read while panning around the page.

Frankly speaking mine are one-column books, so in landscape mode it will be possible to read 1/2 page without any editing.

When I can get a backlit reader that has good battery life, storage space and doesn't cost $400. Until then I'll stick with my DT-375 tablet and my ebookwise-1150. I expect a much higher quality contrast and screen than the old ebookwise.

I know the technology is there. Use the same stuff as OLPC! :)

I'm a little surprised that several people are rooting for a bigger screen. I wouldn't want a device any bigger than my Sony at any price -- lightweight portability is very important to me.

This is why I'm interested in flexible eInk technology. It can potentially give the best of both worlds: A relatively large display, useful for viewing at least 99.9% of the PDFs out there, on a device that's light weight and folds down to fit in your purse/bag/jacketpocket/etc.

I have had a Sony eReader for awhile now. I'm hungry for something like the Sony with a built in night light.

Faster page flips would be okay... but a freaken night light and I'd upgrade as fast as I could afford it..

Seems so simple... reading these posts.. I didn't see a lot of people asking for a built in night light. How weird! they all want fancy features like touch screens.. full oses.. wi-fi.....

I have had a Sony eReader for awhile now. I'm hungry for something like the Sony with a built in night light.

Faster page flips would be okay... but a freaken night light and I'd upgrade as fast as I could afford it..

Seems so simple... reading these posts.. I didn't see a lot of people asking for a built in night light. How weird! they all want fancy features like touch screens.. full oses.. wi-fi.....

I guess I am so used to reading books with a lamp or light turned on and I use my eBook Reader that way to... so it isn't unusal. And pretty much and clip on book reading light will work on a reader too.

BOb

Color, maybe... I'm just so comfortable with my Cybook that I can't imagine switching out any time in the near future. Plus re-uploading all your books to another mobile device is kind of a drag. And I bought the BooksOnBoard 2-year warranty. Basically, a new device would have to be some sort of car with wings that can fold up to pocket-sized.

I guess I am so used to reading books with a lamp or light turned on and I use my eBook Reader that way to... so it isn't unusal. And pretty much and clip on book reading light will work on a reader too.

BOb

clip on lights for pbooks are readily available - just use one of those.

One simple change and one more, well complex.

Simple:

Drop the Kindle to about $100, add some sort of lighting to improve contrast to something reasonable under normal to low light conditions so one is not required to read under the 1-billion (or whatever it really is to quell those jailhouse lawyer/factoid types) lumen light called the sun. And improve the allowed formats to at least extend to DRM'd MOBI & ePub.

More Complex:

Features and power of something like a Nokia Internet Tablet but with a COLOR 9" or so eink display. Put a big battery in it. I do not care if the reader weighs a couple pounds and is 11" in size. Again some sort of lighting to improve contrast under average to low light conditions. Keep the ability to add a total 64GB of SDHC memory cards to the system as the N800 can currently support via it's two SDHC card slots. Improve the DPI of the display to at minimum 300dpi but 600dpi is better since it's color and color means more diverse content. The active touch screen technology or Wacom type display. Ability to function as more then a simple reading device but need not be near a laptop/UMPC/tablet PC in processing power. Last modular mobile broadband connectivity to all me to decide what service works for me, in addition to wifi. Keep the price under $300US. The only new thing is the display all the other components and OS's are decades mature and hence not expensive. So a sub-$300 device is possible even with a 9"-plus display.

And oh yeah, add a silly post where a wrist lanyard can be attached to help prevent drops. I cannot believe this was left out of every reader device I have seen. Leaving the only option as a cheesy stick-on camera lens cover sort of thing.

Last licence some sort of crossword puzzle software that supports AcrossLite .puz format. Reading and xword puzzles seem to go hand in hand, especially with newspaper subs.

I know it sounds like a lot...but for the price point they all seem to be shooting for...I want and expect what I want. Until then I will keep on with my Clie nx73v and my Nokia N800 using FBReader (I am suprised how much I like that software...obviously it still has a ways to go but so far it's pretty cool stuff.)

If the Astak 9.7" Mentor sells for the projected cost of ~$350 I most likely will buy one for my pdf files.

If the Astak 9.7" Mentor sells for the projected cost of ~$350 I most likely will buy one for my pdf files.

I was just thinking the same thing. If anyone comes in with an eInk device of 9-10 inch display size for under $400 that will be the onus for me to get a new one.

However, my son has hijacked mine... yesterday he asked me for the Sony software so he could add more books. I told him I only lent it to him to read the 5 books that I put on it for him. Well, his b-day is comming up in June, so I may be getting him one, or getting me a new one and letting him keep mine... is that cheesy?

Luckily I have my loaner JetBook that I am reviewing and I am reading the free Steven Burst firefly book on it.

BOb

Seems so simple... reading these posts.. I didn't see a lot of people asking for a built in night light. How weird!

Because one of the advantages to eInk is battery life. A built-in light would reduce it. If a built-in backlight is desired, something with an LCD screen would be a better choice.

Because one of the advantages to eInk is battery life. A built-in light would reduce it. If a built-in backlight is desired, something with an LCD screen would be a better choice.

I have a clip-on light. I've tried 3 or 4 of them so far. They all have glare problems. They are such point sources of light that they reflect back. You have to keep the light paralell to the surface in order to read. It sucks. You roll over in bed and knock it around and you have glare again.

I was reading on PDAs for 4 years before I got my Sony. So I got really used to reading without a book light.

I love the eInk. It is much easier on the eyes. I also enjoy my ridiculous battery life. However I'd be okay with a sidelight that you could turn on/off. Wouldn't hurt battery life for customers who left it off. The current light I use has about a 20 hour life on 3 x AAA. I'm assuming the eReader doesn't have that much juice in it -- after all it doesn't need it.

Ya know.. I'd be happy with a clip on light that was *designed* for my eReader. A light wedge type of thing -- or just a light bar type of thing that mounted to the eReader. It would solve my only complaint.

If the Kindle had such an accessory... I'd have to go get one..:) I do like the idea of having an easy to grab selection of books.

Let's assume all of you have JUST paid big bucks for an ebook device like the sony reader or the irex.

So... if a company now announce that within this year, they will beginning to sell a new ebook device...
What kind of features does this device needs to have at what price in order to lure you to buy it instantly?

If someone announced a eInk PDA(ebook reader, full function planner, touch screen notetaker, sync capable with outlook, browser capable, 802.11) between the size of the IRex and a full sheet of paper the day after I bought a Gen2 IRex I would gladly purchase and give the IRex to my son that same day. :p

I was just thinking the same thing. If anyone comes in with an eInk device of 9-10 inch display size for under $400 that will be the onus for me to get a new one.


The primary reason I sold my iLiad is that I found it too big to carry around with me everywhere I go, which is what I did with my Sony and now do with the Gen3.

There clearly is a market for devices with larger screens, but I think it's a different market to the "paperback book" size devices we now have, which are (for me) the perfect "take anywhere" size.

The primary reason I sold my iLiad is that I found it too big to carry around with me everywhere I go, which is what I did with my Sony and now do with the Gen3.

There clearly is a market for devices with larger screens, but I think it's a different market to the "paperback book" size devices we now have, which are (for me) the perfect "take anywhere" size.

I agree with you 'it does matter' :p It all depends on what you want to do with it. As a straight reader, paperback size is probably perfect. But for a more functional 'at work' device to work as a digital planner, notebook, workpaper reader and reference it must be bigger. IMHO

Of course - that is what is so great about ebooks - they are great for straight through reads - such as you would encounter in paperbacks. Tables of Contents are not necessary ;).

There clearly is a market for devices with larger screens, but I think it's a different market to the "paperback book" size devices we now have, which are (for me) the perfect "take anywhere" size.

Exactally right. a 5 or 6inch device is great for fiction and recreational reading that is all text. But, I want a bigger one for work. technical texts that have alot of diagrams and sample code etc. Something I can put on the desk next to me. Of course, I could probably buy a third monitor for the PC, but that's not as portable, can't take into meetings, etc.

The only reason I could think to get a second 6inch one is if someone else in the house was hogging mine. Or, if they came down to a much more commodity price like maybe under $100.

BOb

What I'm looking for in an upgrade:

Take my Kindle
which has the
+free wireless EVDO
+replaceable battery
+ideal form factor
+decent refresh viziplex grayscale non-battery draining e-ink


Add MORE content (sorry)
open the Linux so I can rsync, grep, find, perl, etc, allow Debian repos like my Asus eee and support these great developers. or just add spotlight or lucene searching with regex support
really could use MORE books available
add touchscreen a la my Palm TX or wacom Iliad so I can scribble on E-ink
support PDF either with desktop app or onboard like xpdf so I can read journals articles on it.
getting MORE publishers onboard to convert their back catalog
HYmini wind and miniSolar support


I can skip the wifi,bluetooth and color which will drain the battery.

I could use the solar to sustain its long battery life when I'm trapped in the mountains.
I can scribble or type in my novel.
I can keep every conceivable document format in it.

Did I mention MORE content?:chinscratch:

I'm surprised that you don't mention the ability to load your own fonts - that seems (to me) to be the biggest current limitation of the Kindle. I'd hate to have a device which could only displays books in a single font.

What I'm looking for in an upgrade:

Take my Kindle
which has the
+free wireless EVDO
+replaceable battery
+ideal form factor
+decent refresh viziplex grayscale non-battery draining e-ink


Add MORE content (sorry)
open the Linux so I can rsync, grep, find, perl, etc, allow Debian repos like my Asus eee and support these great developers. or just add spotlight or lucene searching with regex support
really could use MORE books available
add touchscreen a la my Palm TX or wacom Iliad so I can scribble on E-ink
support PDF either with desktop app or onboard like xpdf so I can read journals articles on it.
getting MORE publishers onboard to convert their back catalog
HYmini wind and miniSolar support

I can skip the wifi,bluetooth and color which will drain the battery.

I could use the solar to sustain its long battery life when I'm trapped in the mountains.
I can scribble or type in my novel.
I can keep every conceivable document format in it.

Did I mention MORE content?:chinscratch:
I'm with you on all of this, but think you're undershooting with the new content requests.:drinks:

Fonts, fonts and more of them:

Yes I forgot, :smack: more Fonts or better yet, as HarryT rightfully noted of having it open to the user to install. It would be great to offer in different languages: cyrillic, kanji, etc

On undershooting:
I have some experience with mobile devices and I think alot of the technology is there but not many companies for different reasons don't want to take the innovative risk or design commitments. Maybe it is a rush to market mentality or inexperienced design teams, but many designs go the feature-laden, bloat route and end up missing the user experience. I see this alot with MS products because of their OS dominance. I was excited with their Origami teasers of the new UMPC sub $500 do-everything device, but the current lead is now taken but the Linux powered, nimble, open, Asus eee. I think the Zen of Palm, brought out by the old Hawkins team applies here along with Apple and the lead with multitouch. Listen to the users, support the dev base and don't over promise and under deliver with buggy bloated messes.
I really feel for the Irex Iliad because that is what I wanted in lieu of the Kindle for the touchscreen, and native pdf, but their potential is still nesting with slow dev movement. The incredible work of the MobileRead devs motivated by users outshines what the companies can do.
Unfortunately this view is in the minority, but it is my hope that the companies designing these devices will take user experience which includes long battery life, to heart. And better yet, that users back with their $ support.
Global warming is pushing more action to Green energy and we'll need devices that are more efficient and functional to that end.:thumbsup:

Best,
tony

I do miss having different fonts, the Kindle default font is okay but a little on the "thin" side I wish I could at least bold the font.

Exactally right. a 5 or 6inch device is great for fiction and recreational reading that is all text. But, I want a bigger one for work. technical texts that have alot of diagrams and sample code etc. Something I can put on the desk next to me. Of course, I could probably buy a third monitor for the PC, but that's not as portable, can't take into meetings, etc.

I was sifting through a box of papers this weekend. I'm married to a packrat and stumbling across a box of unsorted papers in my garage is not an uncommon occurrence. About 2/3 of it was printouts of electronic documents he no longer needs: specs, manuals, RFCs. These are things that were a bit long to be comfortable reading on the screen so he printed them. Of course when he printed them, he lost the searchability. I see this every day here at work, people reading a spec on paper for comfort and so they can take notes while they have the electronic document open so they can search. Then off the paper goes into the recycle bin after the project is done. If I could have search and annotation in a large-format reader, it would be totally worth it as a second purchase. I'd keep my Kindle for novels, but this would be my constant companion at work.

I see this every day here at work, people reading a spec on paper for comfort and so they can take notes while they have the electronic document open so they can search. Then off the paper goes into the recycle bin after the project is done.

People at my office print emails and file them. Figure that one out.

BOb

If I could have search and annotation in a large-format reader, it would be totally worth it as a second purchase. I'd keep my Kindle for novels, but this would be my constant companion at work.

Oh my gosh, yes! I would love something like that for correcting scanned texts. I could use a tablet computer but I'd like something smaller, like the size of an iLiad. Then I would still use the Cybook for regular reading.

Are you kidding me?
I am not sure. I have a talent for kidding myself at times. So I will try to explain why this is an upgrade.

I travel often, so I carry my Sony reader for reading in absolute comfort while lounging on a hotel bed or on an airplane. I have my Treo 650 for the PIM functions, the phone, and the ability to read books on the run. Then I carry a laptop so I can have connectivity and do a few other nerdish things on the road.

The Sony Reader is wonderful, but I have had it a year now and find that the battery doesn't hold up qute as long, and I miss backlighting. Still, I take it with me always.

Of course the Treo is always in my pocket. It stays beside me when I sleep. When I am in the shower it is on the sink counter. More and more I am relying on it for book reading when I am in a taxi, or just having a dull moment in a restaurant when nobody else speaks English. I plug it in every night, so battery life has not been an issue. And, yes, I like reading on it. The backlight is adjustable right from the keyboard, so I never feel eyestrain.

The laptop has been a headache. it is an older HP. It needs external prostheses to accomplish modernity such as WiFi and Bluetooth and even USB 2.0. So I carry a bag of wires and dongles.

I found myself in Shanghai the other day, and with nothing important to do I asked myself, "Self, why don't you buy you a new computer?" I had been tempted by the EEE for some time. It has the portability I need. It hardly makes a lump in a backpack. It is the size of a hardback novel and as easy to hold. It has better WiFi than the HP.

So I bought it. Yesterday was rainy so I played with the Xandros Linux. There is no icon for FBReader, so I navigated the File Manager to the /usr/bin directory and made FBReader a favorite so I can get to it easily whenever. I did the same for a couple of other handy apps. I could aways open them from the terminal (ctl-alt-t) but the File manager pops up anyway because the EEE detects my 4G SDHC card on power-up.

FBReader looks OK so far. You can rotate the screen and hold the EEE like a book. It is light and comfortable this way. Others report that FBReader is quite good. I will see for myself in the next few days.

So will I carry three reading devices? I must have my Treo, and I surely do need a laptop. Maybe the Sony Reader will get left behind on the next journey. Sorry old friend. The EEE has a long power cord, so reading at home or hotel is easy and battery life is not an issue. For air travel, I may pick up a spare battery for my Treo as I do take the occasional 14 hour flight.

It's not too far removed from buying a paper book. You are buying the sheets of paper, but not the "ownership" of the contents. You can't go out and re-publish that content and sell it for yourself. Generally speaking, you have no rights at all over that content.

I can't republish a paper book, but I can sell my copy of it. Do people sell their copies of ebooks? How does one tell if the seller is giving me their only existing copy?

I can't republish a paper book, but I can sell my copy of it. Do people sell their copies of ebooks? How does one tell if the seller is giving me their only existing copy?

It depends on who you ask. Most ebook retailers say you can't resell the ebook. US law suggests that you can, only no one has pushed the issue.

I'll likely buy another Kindle (and I already have 2) when we get:

Most important:
-- a dramatic improvement in file structure and maintenance.

Less important:
-- higher "res" screen, most importantly contrast and grey scale.
-- stronger signal in marginal areas (like where I live).
-- a serious speed increase in browsing/"on-line" functions.
-- user assignable buttons.
-- ability to "pool" Kindle books without all being on the same basic account.
-- a flip/folding keyboard.

As far as a keyboard goes, I'd go for a detachable eyboard. It would make lugging it around when the keyboard is not needed easier.

As far as a keyboard goes, I'd go for a detachable eyboard. It would make lugging it around when the keyboard is not needed easier.

But then you never know when you might want a keyboard. They weigh very little so lugging it around isn't as much an issue as you make it out to be. One that folded or slid out of the way makes perfect sense to me. Note taking, dictionary look up, and other tasks make a keyboard handy.

Dale

Already bought my second. First was a Sony 500. Currently using Cybook. When will upgrade? Probably when I have the funds and something interesting comes along. But what I really want is a combination of my Cybook's eink (but in color) for reading in bright light, my Palm TX's PDA functions and speed & back light and the ability to fold/roll/or otherwise be made small enough to fit in my shirt pocket. And of course infinitely long battery life. :rofl:

But then you never know when you might want a keyboard. They weigh very little so lugging it around isn't as much an issue as you make it out to be. One that folded or slid out of the way makes perfect sense to me. Note taking, dictionary look up, and other tasks make a keyboard handy.

Dale

With 6" reader - I would consider only detachable keyboard. I would never buy anything bulkier than my Sony Reader.

I have a Sony Reader 505 that I'm enamored of, but I would have gone for Kindle if Kindle had Korean language support, or a hack available. As it is, I probably won't upgrade until a new reader comes out that I can read Korean on, hopefully with my choice of fonts (although i LOVE the kindle default font.. Amazon really did get that right imo), with Amazon's wireless capabilities.

Hardware wise I'd like better contrast on the screen, and a slightly bigger one. Maybe 8''. I think the current 6 inch screens are a little small for my tastes, but might be willing to upgrade if all the other conditions are satisfied.

But then you never know when you might want a keyboard. They weigh very little so lugging it around isn't as much an issue as you make it out to be. One that folded or slid out of the way makes perfect sense to me. Note taking, dictionary look up, and other tasks make a keyboard handy.
I have a folding keyboard for my PDA. It's less than the size of a thin PB book, and no problem to carry, since I don't carry the PDA in a pocket, either. Briefcase, shoulder bag... lots of options.
______
Dennis

Already bought my second. First was a Sony 500. Currently using Cybook. When will upgrade? Probably when I have the funds and something interesting comes along. But what I really want is a combination of my Cybook's eink (but in color) for reading in bright light, my Palm TX's PDA functions and speed & back light and the ability to fold/roll/or otherwise be made small enough to fit in my shirt pocket. And of course infinitely long battery life. :rofl:
My reader is a Palm OS PDA.

If I could get my current device with a larger screen but the same functionality, I'd upgrade. I'm not concerned with putting it in a shirt pocket. My current device is a bit too large for that, and I had a couple of earlier ones fail the Drop Test (tm) because I made the error of putting them in that pocket.

I require color (which eInk does not currently support), and the ability to do other things beside read ebooks, so a Kindle, Sony Reader, Cybook or iLiad holds no interest for me.
______
Dennis

I like my iRex, but the biggest cave-ats I'd pay for a new device to get away are:

* Overall Speed. This is the biggest drawback, and its not only the screen people like to shift the blame on slowness for. If it really just be 1 second between pages it would be okay. Buts its far slower skimming through a pdf / or notes. In some extreme cases it does up to 10 seconds nothing except blinking the red light. At worst when needing to work with the notes I sometimes even print out my scribblings to be able to quickly skim through them, searching specific parts. Its quite paradox, isn't it?

* Writing gap, it still so nasty, especially when turning the iLiad, or holding the pen differently for underline etc. this is the 2nd worst caveat.

* Back reflexion, I really wonder if I'm the only one disturbed by this, when you have a light exactly behind your head, it will make the screen unreadable, so you need to tilt it akwardly.This is especially true in my morining train, but also in some lecture rooms.

* Faster bootup, its really a pain, when sitting in a lecture, and suddendly have catched up something you want to take a note of. Then powerup your iLiad and wait 50 seconds... a pain..

---
That are the 4 main things, better software would be nice, longer batterylife cool, suspend a dream, but doesn't make me buy a new device.

My reader is a Palm OS PDA.

If I could get my current device with a larger screen but the same functionality, I'd upgrade. I'm not concerned with putting it in a shirt pocket. My current device is a bit too large for that, and I had a couple of earlier ones fail the Drop Test (tm) because I made the error of putting them in that pocket.

I require color (which eInk does not currently support), and the ability to do other things beside read ebooks, so a Kindle, Sony Reader, Cybook or iLiad holds no interest for me.
______
Dennis

One of the nice things about the TX is the rough leather cover that folds over the screen. Its roughness helps it not slide out of the pocket.

One of the nice things about the TX is the rough leather cover that folds over the screen. Its roughness helps it not slide out of the pocket.Had the TX been available when I was looking for a replacement for my failing TE, I might have gotten one. I wanted a larger screen, a faster processor, and more RAM. All else was gravy. I've been delighted with the Zodiac, but it's a bit large to fit in a shirt pocket in the leather sport case, and it's never out of the case. :p

Built-in wifi in the TX is nice but not a must have, and there are too many problems with NVFS