As you can probably tell, I've developed a new technology induced disease which was passed on to me by Jeff Hawkins. It's called "Mental Foleo-itis!" I can't stop thinking about this device and wrestling with what Palm might have in mind for it.

I'm beginning to think that the lack of detail about where the Foleo line of products is going and the lack of specifications is intentional. They have a goal that we don't know about, and it is only going to make sense to us when we know where they are headed.

As a result, I wonder if the only proper treatment for "Foleo-itis" is for me to buy one to put in my very own hands. This quest to understand the potential and future of the Foleo is consuming me, and is in great need of concrete evidence and facts. It might be worth the $500 just to have something to work with as I try to read Hawkins' mind and see Palm's plans. Obviously, it's not worth $500 for the stated purpose!

So I tell you right now - there's something missing. More secrets. He's a smart guy, and this simply cannot be the whole picture. One day the secret will be revealed and it will all make sense.

So I'm actually thinking about buying one (on the condition that it can use my existing data plan without additional charges). Partly to play with it and try to understand its potential, but also for web browsing on the go. I think that if the browser has good support of web standards, then I would get a lot of use out of that. Of course, you can already do that on a laptop or UMPC, but let's ignore that fact for the moment.

Is there anyone else out there that's crazy enough to even consider for a moment throwing away $500 on this device, or is it just me?

I'm not surprised you can't resist it, Bob. :laugh4:

Personally, I don't think my curiosity is nearly strong enough for me to consider buying one ... much less try explaining it to the wife. :huh:

But then, we're trying to buy a house, and that's dampening the gadget budget for a while. :sad2:

Is there anyone else out there that's crazy enough to even consider for a moment throwing away $500 on this device, or is it just me?

I am, but everyone has to make that decision based on three things: what will you use it for, can you afford it, and can you live with the limitations it imposes?

It is no different than buying, say, an iPod. If all you will ever do is listen to podcasts, than dollar for dollar it is not a good value. If you're scraping by on $8/hour, the price tag is probably an issue. If what you really want is a portable radio than the iPod is a lousy choice.

By the same measure, this is a good match for me because I can type a heck of a lot faster than I can write, I have a lot of stuff that comes out in meetings I need to track because my memory is crap (and sometimes people try to weasel out of what they said), and while you *can* get a $500 laptop, you really don't want to work on one.

The fact that I alread own a shiny Treo 755p helps push me off the fence.

They got you there!

If you have a Treo, bying a Foleo is like getting a garage for that fine racy sports car.

My phone is two years old and out of the race. That means I'd have to buy the $1000.00 combo! No thanks! No positive software functionality incentive to justify the investment.

I probably will if Mobipocket and eReader come aboard with software for it.

I was close to buying a Sony Reader for $350, but have so much money tied up in eReader and Mobipocket books that I don't want to start over with yet another DRMed book format. I'm also not a fan of the Sony Reader. That flicker on every page turn drove me nuts.

My first eBook reader was the IBM Z50. That was a device pretty much identical to what the Foleo will be. It was a laptop replacement and I loved that it was instant on, that it ran very cool and that it had a nice big screen to read books on. I've gotten used to reading on smaller PDAs over the years, but will definitely buy a Foleo for $500 if I can use it to read all of my ebooks. I would love to replace my LifeDrive with anything at this point.

Is there anyone else out there that's crazy enough to even consider for a moment throwing away $500 on this device, or is it just me?There's no point in throwing money away, buying a product for which you don't see the value.

I have a different reference point, having owned a Psion Series 7 a few years back. I've desperately wanted to have another subnotebook based on a solid state memory model, with instant-on and instant application launching. I've said as much in another thread, but a device with the responsiveness of a PDA with the ergonomics of a laptop is something you have to experience to see the value of. Right now, people are just comparing the Foleo's specs to other devices in the mobile computing space, but I think once people actually start using something like this (assuming the UI is well implemented), we may be in for quite a surprise.

I still can't figure out what I'd use it for. It can't replace my PDA. It can't replace my laptop. So my answer is "No".

If I wanted something like this, I'll wait for the OLPC system to be available (it will have more functionality and cost less).

Sorry, not me. For $500, it's just too high for me to consider... even if I didn't already have a laptop-cellphone combination that can do the same job.

But if I didn't have the laptop, and it were, say, $200... I'd be rushing out to take a look at that puppy today.

Nope....don't understand the value of a product like this. My $500 is going to go to the iphone in a couple of more weeks. That's a device I understand!

As a result, I wonder if the only proper treatment for "Foleo-itis" is...

I think the correct term would be "chronic Foleosis" :happy2:
Don't worry, it'll pass. Eventually. Just drink plenty of liquids, lie back and read your Sony Reader :wink:

Unfortunately, if you look at the Palm pages, you will find the following footnote...
" 3 A dial up networking plan from your service provider may be required at an incremental cost above and beyond the service provider's regular smartphone data plans."

Fortunately we have many people here with gadgetosis who, like Bob, are motivated to share interesting opinions.

To me, the instant-on feature is the most interesting. I have wanted that for a long time. So what are the pros and cons of the Foleo?

Pros
* Instant on.
* Linux and (maybe) Palm software compatibility.
* Connectivity.

Cons
* Size and weight.
* Need to carry two devices.

Questions
* Will it be hackable with Palm company support?
* Will it have enough storage to operate self-contained?

For me, I'm very interested in this as a lightweight, cheap laptop that can function as a PDF viewer. Possibly with a side job as a writing tool.

I don't find $500 to be a bad price for this. In fact, a few years ago, when people were dreaming that Palm might make a laptop-like device, $500 was the magical dream price point everyone was quoting. For an ultraportable laptop with this quality screen, it's still a good price.

Yeah, you can get a $400 laptop now. A POS laptop with lousy battery life, lousy build quality, huge size and weight, and obsolete components. That doesn't tempt me. A better comparison might be a used model of an older, good laptop like a Thinkpad (I picked up a T23 last year for $500 and it's been a champ). But even then, the laptop is way bigger than this, and tied down to an outlet in practical terms if you are going to use it for more than a short time.

The keys for me will be two things:

Can I get it without any strings attached? Having to buy a phone plan or Treo with this would be a deal breaker.

Will it attract a community of developers? If people start porting apps over to it, it could be great, but Palm has to win over Linux folks first, and I don't see much sign of that yet.

2.5 pounds isn't so very lightweight, but and 5 hours of battery life may be sufficient for the sort of thing you seem to have in mind. :nice:

I suspect that there will be developers -- if I recall correctly, it will have a PalmOS emulator, so the present Palm developers should be able to move right in, and I imagine enough linux folks will be interested in a new platform to draw some apps fairly quickly. :shrug:

Definitely looks cool to me, but I'd have to try it out in person before I could become more enamored with it. :P Having to have a 'smart'phone to fully take advantage of it makes me sad since I don't want to make the plunge yet with those prices still high as they are. I'd love to see where this concept leads to in the next year or so.

I too have been intrigued by the Foleo.

Sure it isn't a Windows laptop (a good thing in my book actually) but this trade off buys you a much sleeker/pared down machine that can run well even with modest hardware specifications. If implemented properly, Linux on the Foleo can be MUCH less of a resource hog than Windows, so you'll get usability, cool operation and much better battery life too.

Folks are making the mistake of comparing the Foleo to these Windows capable sub notebooks that are all the rage in Japan but for some reason never caught on here in the U.S. That's not really a fair comparison as most of these sub notebooks come in at the >$2500-3000 price point. Remember these sub-notebooks usually don't have an internal optical drive either.

The Foleo isn't limited to only using your smartphone for internet access as it does have 802.11b/g WiFi built in. I currently use my Nokia 770 to link with the internet when WiFi isn't available via bluetooth using my RAZR. I pay an extra $20/month for unlimited net access on my wireless plan, there is a $70/month teathered PDA plan that you're supposed to use technically, but so far, my carrier hasn't noticed so I'll play dumb :) I suspect that you'll be able to use the Foleo paired with even a non-smartphone in much the same way.

If the Foleo's UI is responsive and stable, has a decent looking/bright screen, the Opera Web Browser works well and can properly render/run web based applications (like Google's suite of apps, maps, etc), runs cool (no fan noise, man that would be great), and has made software development/porting available to the Linux community, I think you'll have a very useful and compelling device. The other built in applications already cover 90% of what most business users/travellers actually use their "real" notebooks for anyways.

If you need more software, it'll likely be avaiable pretty readily. Just look at the Nokia 770/880 community of Linux hackers/programmers who have ported a whole grip of quality software to this little device. Check out www.Maemo.org and look through the various software offerings. Even if Palm dumps Foleo after a year or two (in which case, you'll be able to pick it up super cheap!!!), it'll still have a useful life as it's Linux foundations will allow for continued fan/community support and this takes alot of the anxiety out of buying one for me.

If you doubt this, just look at the case of the Nokia 770. Though it's been made obsolete by the Nokia 880, there is still a thriving community of users/developers maintaining, porting and developing new software for it. You just need a critical mass of a few hundred individuals comitted to a platform based on open source to keep it alive and viable.

Dave

Nope....don't understand the value of a product like this. My $500 is going to go to the iphone in a couple of more weeks. That's a device I understand!
GOD NO! Please tell us this is a sick joke on your part.

Heck, a small tiny laptop with super large screen (in comparision the the best 3.7" screen on PDA now).
Cheap price too $497 ;)
I think I will give it a try.
Or I should save that sum of money, buy the ink + paper to print my ebook :D

I too have been intrigued by the Foleo.What intrigues me is who exactly Palm expects to buy it.

Sure it isn't a Windows laptop (a good thing in my book actually) but this trade off buys you a much sleeker/pared down machine that can run well even with modest hardware specifications. If implemented properly, Linux on the Foleo can be MUCH less of a resource hog than Windows, so you'll get usability, cool operation and much better battery life too.Palm is working with embedded OS vendor Wind River Systems. Wind River has been at this for some time, offering the VXWorks embedded OS before getting into the Linux space.

There are also rumors IBM is looking at acquiring them. That would be good for them: they had some serious losses recently, and acquisition by a much larger and better-heeled partner would be a relief.

But that shouldn't affect the Palm deal one way or the other.

Folks are making the mistake of comparing the Foleo to these Windows capable sub notebooks that are all the rage in Japan but for some reason never caught on here in the U.S. That's not really a fair comparison as most of these sub notebooks come in at the >$2500-3000 price point. Remember these sub-notebooks usually don't have an internal optical drive either.The comparison is in what it can and can't do.

<...>

If the Foleo's UI is responsive and stable, has a decent looking/bright screen, the Opera Web Browser works well and can properly render/run web based applications (like Google's suite of apps, maps, etc), runs cool (no fan noise, man that would be great), and has made software development/porting available to the Linux community, I think you'll have a very useful and compelling device. The other built in applications already cover 90% of what most business users/travellers actually use their "real" notebooks for anyways.The problem with the Foleo is precisely what you will do with it.

It's marketed as a traveling companion for the Treo. My guess is the folks who could use such a thing already have a laptop. If they do, the Foleo needs to be able to replace it with a smaller, lighter, more convenient device. If it can't, the Foleo loses, as they certainly aren't going to lug around both.

If it can, it becomes interesting indeed, but what I've been able to discover so far doesn't point in that direction. The device isn't actually out yet, and Palm's official information is remarkably vague. There are also rumors that Palm is denying that the Foleo won't be delivered on schedule due to last minute bug fixes.

If you need more software, it'll likely be available pretty readily. Just look at the Nokia 770/880 community of Linux hackers/programmers who have ported a whole grip of quality software to this little device. Check out www.Maemo.org and look through the various software offerings. Even if Palm dumps Foleo after a year or two (in which case, you'll be able to pick it up super cheap!!!), it'll still have a useful life as it's Linux foundations will allow for continued fan/community support and this takes alot of the anxiety out of buying one for me.

<...>I have, and it's not comparable.

The difference is that Nokia went the open source route, and opened the platform to outside developers. (There were some bumps in that road, as the open source model is antithetical to standard corporate development models, and the 770 team had internal opposition to deal with.)

Palm has not done so, and the mere use of an embedded Linux kernel does not mean they will. The GPL under which Linux is issued is "viral": code that links against GPL code becomes GPLed in consequence. But apps simply running on top of a Linux kernel are not linking against it, and do not have to be open source.

The question is whether Palm will have an SDK available and support the development of third-party software for the Foleo, whether or not they choose an open source model. I'd like to think so, but developer support has been an issue for Palm for some time.
______
Dennis

http://blog.palm.com/palm/2007/09/a-message-to-pa.html

Whoa. That probably needs a Front Page notice.

Yeah, it probably warrants mentioning on the front page. Anyway, I feel it's particularly painful, not to mention embarrassing, for Jeff Hawkins.

It's on the Front (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13469) now. It is a bit embarrassing, I suppose, but they sound like they're leaving the door open for a future model. They'll have to do something with all the parts they must have, if they were as close to shipping as it sounds like they were. :shrug: