I have gargoyle compiled and working on the iLiad. This looks and works pretty well.

Gargoyle is an IF player that supports all the major interactive fiction formats.

Most interactive fiction is distributed as portable game files. These portable game files come in many formats. In the past, you used to have to download a separate player (interpreter) for each format of IF you wanted to play.

Right now, you will need to edit run.sh in order for it to open a different book. I've included the original Zork game as a sample.

I'll admit, I've never gotten into interactive fiction before. I played Zork a little bit when I was a kid, but that's because it was included in a larger game pack I had bought. I also read those "Choose Your Own Adventure" books when I was really young. I'm not sure if that's the same thing though. Maybe someone who knows more about gargoyle and interactive fiction can help out...

Okay, now I'm officially jealous. :stare:

Seriously, though: well done (but I really am jealous). :wink:

Do you read interactive fiction? Where do you get it from? Is it like a book, or a game? Any examples?

I'm still trying to figure out the window thing...It looks like gargoyle is a bunch of programs running from a single launcher. I'm not sure if I'll have to modify each and every one, or if there's a single window manager.

Another problem is launching a book. Without modifying contentlister, a book needs to be launched from a command or shell script. This isn't easy for the average person.

Interactive fiction is a game style from (waaaaay back) in the 1980s -- before graphics were much to sneeze at. I haven't really played it much in years (I actually have a Palm app that runs them).

There are a number of web-sites that have IF, including a few that let you play it online, without downloading anything, which is pretty ironic considering its origins. :smile:

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interactive_fiction) (unsurprisingly) has a good write-up of it, including a modest collection of links to sites, if you want more detail. :nice:

Tools for creating as well as an archive of public domain IF's can be found here.

http://www.ifarchive.org/

Never heard of Interactive fiction before, but from what i read on Wikipedia it sounds a bit like text-based strategy game(of sorts). Interesting nontheless!

Yay!

Now we just need the HWR in an input line at the bottom. :D

Yay!

Now we just need the HWR in an input line at the bottom. :D

Already Done. :)

Well, It's almost a user-ready release. Right now, when the program launches, the window is still hidden a bit by the keyboard. You will have to drag it to the top a little in order to see your input.

If this is a non-issue, or if someone has a quick gtk solution, let me know and I'll fix and post.

Edit: As a short term solution, I just made the window a bit smaller, so it would still fit everything in while being centered. This isn't ideal, but it works. First post updated with program.

thanks you are my hero for today,... now for the rest of the weekend i will try this, thanks

Adam, Zork is copyrighted by Activision. The Hugo Zork you've included in your zip file even admits it is used without permission:

http://www.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/source/hugo/hugozork.hug

I'm planning on including the Colossal Cave (Advent.z5) with my Java IF Viewer, it appears to be freely available:

http://www.ifarchive.org/indexes/if-archiveXgamesXzcode.html

Actually, the term "interactive fiction" is all wrong. Back when Colossal Cave and Zork and others were written then correct term used was Adventure These are adventure games, not interactive fiction. Please use the correct labeling of these games.

"Interactive Fiction" is the term that's been the standard one for the last 20 years or so, Jon. It's gone way beyond the original adventure games; take a look at the IF archive site - many of the modern "games" are more like novels. There are active Usenet newsgroups "rec.games.int-fiction" and "rec.arts.int-fiction", reflecting the original "game" and the "literary" types of IF.

Hmm I have known the type as text adventures.
But nicely done Adam B. ! Umm are you trying to kill our last drops of free time with such ports? :-)

How do I get started using this program and other programs?

I've only had my iLiad for a couple of days and I don't really know what "unbricking" and so on means. I'm a programmer, I'm familiar with Unix and GNU/Linux and I've used Gargoyle a lot on my main Debian machine, but my iLiad is still set to the factory defaults; I haven't got any apps installed.

I have a lot of IF I want to read, starting with Spider and Web which is in z-machine format.

http://www.eblong.com/zarf/if.html

I'm thankful for any advice and pointers!

If you're familiar with Debian, than you should have no problem making Gargoyle work on your iLiad with other IF titles.

You'll need the iLiad Shell access package: https://myirex.irexnet.com/user.php/developer

After you get that, download this gargoyle package, and edit run.sh.

Thanks! This works great, now!
For now, I am probably going to create a separate manifest (with "../" style paths to the executables) for each game file I want to have on the iLiad, that seems like an easy way to get started.

I have a couple of questions, though:
1. How can I get the window to run full screen, as in your June 1 blog post? (http://blog.adamrb.com/2007/06/interactive-fiction-with-gargoyle.html) I'm thinking I might be happy with the keyboard partially covering it since I can choose to have it at top or bottom of the window.
2. It's a bit awkward to save or load files now (try typing "save" or "restore" at the prompt -- a gtk1-style save/load dialogue pops up behind the interpreter window), and it would be even worse if the window is full screen.
3. Are your patches (if any) or sources available or is this just a plain recompile?
4. (slightly ot to the topic of gargoyle, but...) How do I get started with porting to, or developing for, the iLiad? Is there a nice collection of links available or is searching this forum my best bet? I'd love to just RTFM but I'm scared that I'll find obsolete information since things seem to be moving quickly.

Thank you so much for you time and for this port!

1. To get it to run full screen, you'll need to recompile it. I'm probably the worst person when it comes to keeping modifications and revisions to the source.
2. I haven't tested saving... But since the main window is made to act as a dialog, it could be causing a problem with a new dialog popping up. If it was full screen, it may pop up on top like normal.
3. This was mostly a recompile with a few modifications for screen refreshes built in. I wipe my development area clean every month or so to start fresh, and I'm afraid I haven't kept the changes.
4. The best place to start is with the VMWare development image here (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10200). Read the links at the bottom of the first post for a quick how-to. A good tutorial for screen refreshes and other info can be found here (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=46963&postcount=4).

Not much on the development side has changed since the beginning. It's just a lot easer to get started, and now that you can unbrick your device, you don't have to worry about breaking it. :)

Let me know if you have any problems or questions. I'm always willing to hlep out where I can. Especially if it means more iLiad developers. :D

Thanks! This works great, now!
For now, I am probably going to create a separate manifest (with "../" style paths to the executables) for each game file I want to have on the iLiad, that seems like an easy way to get started.

I have a couple of questions, though:
1. How can I get the window to run full screen, as in your June 1 blog post? (http://blog.adamrb.com/2007/06/interactive-fiction-with-gargoyle.html) I'm thinking I might be happy with the keyboard partially covering it since I can choose to have it at top or bottom of the window.
2. It's a bit awkward to save or load files now (try typing "save" or "restore" at the prompt -- a gtk1-style save/load dialogue pops up behind the interpreter window), and it would be even worse if the window is full screen.
3. Are your patches (if any) or sources available or is this just a plain recompile?
4. (slightly ot to the topic of gargoyle, but...) How do I get started with porting to, or developing for, the iLiad? Is there a nice collection of links available or is searching this forum my best bet? I'd love to just RTFM but I'm scared that I'll find obsolete information since things seem to be moving quickly.

Thank you so much for you time and for this port!

"Interactive Fiction" is the term that's been the standard one for the last 20 years or so, Jon. It's gone way beyond the original adventure games; take a look at the IF archive site - many of the modern "games" are more like novels. There are active Usenet newsgroups "rec.games.int-fiction" and "rec.arts.int-fiction", reflecting the original "game" and the "literary" types of IF.
The original name for this category of games was called Adventure games. People changing the name won't help as it's really still Adventure games. Always has been, always will be. I find the term interactive-fiction to be crud. It's so much nicer to say Adventure game. And it means more too even if the games themselves have evolved (the genre is still the same). The IF such as Colossal Cave and Zork were originally Adventure games. Now why change the genre name and call them something that sounds silly when the name they had (and always will have for those of use who know better) was perfect for them?

I've only had my iLiad for a couple of days and I don't really know what "unbricking" and so on means.I don't have an iLiad, but "bricking" means you tried something that left your device unusable -- IE, a brick, and "unbricking" is the recovery process.

A bad firmware update is a good way to brick a device. Reverting to previous known good firmware unbricks it.
______
Dennis

The original name for this category of games was called Adventure games. People changing the name won't help as it's really still Adventure games. Always has been, always will be. I find the term interactive-fiction to be crud. It's so much nicer to say Adventure game. And it means more too even if the games themselves have evolved (the genre is still the same). The IF such as Colossal Cave and Zork were originally Adventure games. Now why change the genre name and call them something that sounds silly when the name they had (and always will have for those of use who know better) was perfect for them?They are indeed Adventure games, but those are a category of the larger class of Interactive Fiction.
______
Dennis
Who played the original adventure and dungeon on unix and RSX 11M+ respectively (and who has a version of adventure on his PDA...)

The original name for this category of games was called Adventure games. People changing the name won't help as it's really still Adventure games. Always has been, always will be. I find the term interactive-fiction to be crud. It's so much nicer to say Adventure game. And it means more too even if the games themselves have evolved (the genre is still the same). The IF such as Colossal Cave and Zork were originally Adventure games. Now why change the genre name and call them something that sounds silly when the name they had (and always will have for those of use who know better) was perfect for them?
According to Wikipedia, the term "Adventure Games" refers to graphical games as well as text-only (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventure_game). I've called the latter "interactive fiction" for the past two decades, and I started with ADVENT on the PDP-11. As far as I knew, "Adventure" was the name of a specific game, and IF was the general category. I can see extending "Adventure Games" to cover this wide range of both text and graphic games like Zork and Myst, but some IF isn't really about "adventure." I think for text games, IF is the standard term these days.

Then again, as a linguist, I'm usually more interested in how people actually use words and phrases than in how they are "supposed to" use them. Maybe a poll would be a good idea. :)

Contrary to what JSWolf would like this genre to be called the "industry" that makes and supports IF calls it IF. Shouldn't those people decide what there work is going to be called?

Contrary to what JSWolf would like this genre to be called the "industry" that makes and supports IF calls it IF. Shouldn't those people decide what there work is going to be called?
They did decide. They decided to call them adventure games.

... just as the Victorians called novels like "The Woman in White" and "The Moonstone" "sensation novels". Today we'd call them "thrillers". Names do change, Jon. Today this category of item is called "interactive fiction" whether you "approve" or not :). Language usage does change over time. Much modern IF is not a "game" at all - it's "interactive literature".

Could Gargoyle be added to the iLiad sw wiki page? :)

Could Gargoyle be added to the iLiad sw wiki page? :)

Done. :thumbsup:

... just as the Victorians called novels like "The Woman in White" and "The Moonstone" "sensation novels". Today we'd call them "thrillers". Names do change, Jon. Today this category of item is called "interactive fiction" whether you "approve" or not :). Language usage does change over time. Much modern IF is not a "game" at all - it's "interactive literature".
I'm not buying this name change to IF. That's just pure BS. It's been Adventure Games for as long as there have been computers to run them on. And yes they are games. Adventure games are a form of puzzle games.

Interactive Fiction is a subgenre of adventure games. The term is most commonly used for text-only games driven by typed commands, though sometimes there can also be some static pictures.

I'm not buying this name change to IF. That's just pure BS. It's been Adventure Games for as long as there have been computers to run them on. And yes they are games. Adventure games are a form of puzzle games.

Jon,

With the greatest respect, it's not up to you to dictate what other people choose to call things :). I would suggest that you try your suggestion in the "rec.games.int-fiction" Usenet newsgroup and see how far you get :grin:.

If it makes you happy to call them adventure games then go ahead and call them that; it's a free board :).

The original name for this category of games was called Adventure games. People changing the name won't help as it's really still Adventure games. Always has been, always will be. I find the term interactive-fiction to be crud. It's so much nicer to say Adventure game. And it means more too even if the games themselves have evolved (the genre is still the same). The IF such as Colossal Cave and Zork were originally Adventure games. Now why change the genre name and call them something that sounds silly when the name they had (and always will have for those of use who know better) was perfect for them?When I first started playing them in the '80s I knew them as Interactive Fiction, I never knew them by any other term. It seems to me that it's a bit after the fact to take exception to a name change that essentially happened 20 years ago. :grin:

I'm guessing here that Infocom coined the term "Interactive Fiction" to give their products a bit of distinction from the originals. It does describe the mechanism of the games better, in my opinion. :shrug:

I remember the term "Adventure" but that was from the 1970s and was considered old hat by then ("old hat" being another old term.) I remember some descriptions by Muse Software of their Apple ][ games as "interactive fiction" in the late 70s/early 80s.

According to the great repository of all (mostly correct) knowledge: Wikipedia, Interactive Fiction ("http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interactive_fiction) started with a game called "Adventure" (abbreviated to "advent" due to filename limitations) circa 1975.

The much-knowing Wikipedia describes IF as "a type of adventure game with text-based input and output." Further explaining that, "The term is sometimes used to encompass the entirety of the medium, but is also sometimes used to distinguish games produced by the interactive fiction community from those created by games companies. It can also be used to distinguish the more modern style of such works, focusing on narrative and not necessarily falling into the adventure game genre at all, from the more traditional focus on puzzles."

So, from that, I'd have to conclude that IF is probably most accurately a sub-genre of the adventure game genre, much as sci-fi is a sub-genre of fiction. So I guess I'd have to consider calling it IF to be a more specific label, much like I call most of what I read "sci-fi" rather than just "fiction." But we're really pickin' nits now. :grin:

I used to own a TRS-80 Model I. When these games were popular and text only, the catalogs (including Infocom) never (to my recollection) used the term IF. They used the term Adventure. The other biggies for the TRS-80 was from a company called Scott Adams Adventures. Not till after the advent of the 16-bit computer did I see the term IF being used after the term Adventure had been used first.

I used to own a TRS-80 Model I. When these games were popular and text only, the catalogs (including Infocom) never (to my recollection) used the term IF. They used the term Adventure. The other biggies for the TRS-80 was from a company called Scott Adams Adventures. Not till after the advent of the 16-bit computer did I see the term IF being used after the term Adventure had been used first.

A way back long before i was born they made this thing called a 'computer' and while there still make 'computers' now they go by many other names, but they are still computers. Here is an example ... iLiad by iRex. While still a computer as it has a keyboard, monitor, linux operation system, USB ports, WiFi it has become something different so we call it something different.

Its called progress. Renaming things to better suit what they actually are. Very simple concept for most...

A way back long before i was born they made this thing called a 'computer' and while there still make 'computers' now they go by many other names, but they are still computers. Here is an example ... iLiad by iRex. While still a computer as it has a keyboard, monitor, linux operation system, USB ports, WiFi it has become something different so we call it something different.

Its called progress. Renaming things to better suit what they actually are. Very simple concept for most...
A computer is what the iRex iLiad is. IRex is the brand name and iLiad is the model number/name.

Might I respectfully suggest to all concerned that we bring this rather pointless discussion to an end, and each call these, er, "things", whatever we prefer.

As Mr. Shakespeare so appropriately said:

That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet

:stupid: :D

:stupid: :DMe too!

Yeah.

This thread has had it.

:deadhorse:

Parts of gargoyle are GPL, so distributing the binary without the source is illegal (not to mention inconvient for the users). What's done is done, but this is something to remember for future releases.

Thanks for your pointers, I'll look more into porting stuff when I have more time; the first step will be setting up a cross-compilation toolchain and test a few simple recompiles (I want to recompile busybox with ed support, among other things).

Step two will be to re-do your gargoyle port so I can change the window type and look into fixing a few crasches (sometimes crashes when restoring games), and maybe someday I'll even dev some original app (thinking about using Vala (http://live.gnome.org/Vala) for this).

I highly doubt that anyone will care about this very minor GPL infraction. I've added maybe 4 lines of code the the standard Gargoyle release, and will be happy to work on the port again if someone has an issue with it...

Parts of gargoyle are GPL, so distributing the binary without the source is illegal (not to mention inconvient for the users). What's done is done, but this is something to remember for future releases.As I read it, the GPL requires you to provide the source. It does not require you to distribute the source with the binaries. It is sufficient that you will provide the source on request, and you make it clear to the user you will do so. Most users neither need nor want the source, and don't have the toolchain installed to build it in any case. Every website I can think of for an open source project provides the source as a separate download, and doesn't bundle it with the binaries.

The only tricky part is that the user should be able to use the source you provide to recreate the binary you distribute, so the source you provide needs to be the same source you used to build the binary. It's probably a good idea to create a tarball for released code, and keep it separate from development code you are hacking for that reason.
______
Dennis

As I read it, the GPL requires you to provide the source. It does not require you to distribute the source with the binaries. It is sufficient that you will provide the source on request, and you make it clear to the user you will do so.
Right, now I remember (gosh, I used to really know this stuff a couple of years ago); however, that was not the case this time since the (albeit very small) edits have been discarded.

I highly doubt that anyone will care about this very minor GPL infraction. I've added maybe 4 lines of code the the standard Gargoyle release, and will be happy to work on the port again if someone has an issue with it...
Sure, it's no big deal and no hard feelings intended, I just pointed it out as an aside to help prevent bigger infractions from you or others in the future. Thanks again for all your help.

This is just a post to help others who might run into the same problem I had. I have old DOS formatted files of infocom games (Suspended and Starcross, my two all-time favorites). I couldn't get gargoyle to recognize these on the iLiad or on the PC (running XP). You want the content of the .DAT file in the DATA directory, but gargoyle won't recognize that extension. (The games do run on the Windows box if you double-click the .BAT file.) After a lot of digging around, I found a reference to changing the extension of .DAT files to the appropriate version of the Z interpreter. To find the appropriate version of the Z interpreter for your game, check the list at http://www.csd.uwo.ca/Infocom/games.html. For example, all releases of Suspended were version 3 of the Z interpreter. I renamed the extension to .z3 and gargoyle recognized the file correctly, at least on the pc. (On the iLiad, unzip turned the zip file I had into a .img file, not what I wanted. More experimentation is still needed to get Suspended working on the iLiad. :) )

Hi Adam ,what about a gargoyle's registry instaler?

In spanish languaje that link will be usefull
http://www.caad.es/index.php

What file extensions does Gargoyle support? If you can provide me with a list, I can setup a registry installer.

What file extensions does Gargoyle support? If you can provide me with a list, I can setup a registry installer.
Try this list: http://ifwiki.org/index.php/FAQ#How_can_I_download_and_play_IF.3F

Just thought I'd mention that Amazon currently has quite a few copies of many old Infocom games for reasonable prices (and some for very unreasonable prices).

In windows version there are 2 extensions more *.agx (AGT games) and
*.sna (Level 9). I don´t know in Linux.
Thanks
Mac

For the life of me, I cannot get any of these to run in gargoyle.

I have renamed the .dat file to a .z3 file (asper the version of the z format for the game), and I edited the run.sh to reflect the name.

But none but zork will work.

Am I missing something here?

I agree... Anyone have any suggestions on how to get other IF titles to work? I was able to get colossal.hex to work, but I changed its name to hugozork.hex and replaced the original file.....