The response in the mobile online community is pretty consistent. Generally, people say they find it intriguing, but they are really disappointed and it's not what they need. My first impression is very similar. I want very much to like it, but it seems more like a limited function toy than something I would really use.

But the more I think about it, the more I think it might succeed. Especially after looking at the Engadget notes (http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/30/palms-jeff-hawkins-live-from-d-2007) on the Hawkins presentation.

Here's why: We tech freaks are missing the whole point. We think that we are early adopters, so we much be the market for a crazy new piece of hardware that comes out from the creator of the Palm Pilot. After all, we are the ones that jumped on a PDA when no one really knew what to do with it.

But this product, while it is a creation generated by the same person, is a whole different ball game. Hawkins is looking for mass market appeal. He wants to appeal to the low-tech businessman and the common guy on the street. As much as it pains us, he is not after the tech freak.

So imagine just the scenario that Hawkins alludes to - everyone carrying around a smartphone. They really don't know how to do anything complicated on it. And they are finally advanced enough that people can sort of do email and look at documents. Plus, everyone wants to browse the web. But it's very complicated and hard on a smartphone. You have all that potential that's being wasted because it's hard on a tiny screen. So how do you open up all that potential to the average businessman or businesswoman, or the average Joe/Suzy on the street? You give them a Foleo!

They don't care about the latest features. They don't care about touchscreen. They don't care how many applications are available. They just want an easy way to do email, office documents, pdfs and web browsing. Remember that, as Michael Mace has pointed out, the zen of Palm is the simple approach to providing solutions. That's exactly what the Foleo does. Simple maintenance for enterprises or families. Simple usage and setup. And the primary activities people want are covered. It's cheap, well-sized and has "decent' battery life. It could be a hit.

You can hate Palm for releasing a product that doesn't meet your high tech needs (and mine), or you can consider how much larger the low tech audience of consumers will be. Just imagine, as everyone has a smartphone in the days to come, and they all wish they had a simple way to use it. What's the answer. Hawkins and Palm are hoping Foleo is the answer.

The only problem is that it's a hard acceptance curve to climb, and convincing the average phone user to get one is tricky. By then, there will be lots of competition. Can Palm make it a success? That's the question of the day.

I honestly don't see what market he is targeting.

1. The "connected" business person has their Treo and their laptop. If they are traveling light they take the Treo. If they are traveling heavy they take their laptop and their Treo. Why would a "connected" business person take a Foleo? All their Powerpoint and Excel, etc. drafts are contained on the hard drive of their laptop. They need access to previous memos, presentations, etc. that are, again, contained on the laptop. A Foleo can't substitute for 80Gig of background information stored on the laptop - so the Foleo will stay home. If you already have a laptop I can't see a business person leaving it home and risking not having that vital piece of information available that is stored on their hard disk.

2. I don't think a "non-connected" person, one who owns a Treo just for light email and a little web browsing, will have any interest in being tied to a second device, especially one that won't fit in a pocket or purse.

I don't think it's a question of features or applications, I just don't see where it fits in.

Those are some great points, Paul.

But I think you are still thinking of a more sophisticated user than the audience. Think business person that hates their laptop and just wants to do email or look at a presentation that was sent by email. Think of grandma who wants to keep in touch with her grandson on the trip.

Then making a quantum leap forward, think of a sales force that a company wants to equip their low-tech salesmen cheaply with a 3rd-party sales force automation package, but they want low maintenance and they have to supply them with smartphones anyway. It also has to look simple, because they hate the problems and bulk of a "real laptop". Is there a better and simpler solution right now? I don't think so. Not yet.

But if you want it to "do more" (like I do) it will be very disappointing to you. My point is that anyone that wants to "do more" is not the target market. I'm speculating, but it sure looks that way to me.

I see what you're getting at, Bob. I think of my Parents & in-laws, and a number of my co-workers for that matter, who can more or less use a computer, but get stumped really quick if they wander outside of the basics like word-processing & e-mail. They'd be totally adrift with a smartphone, to the point of having trouble using the phone part in the midst of all that 'technical' stuff.

Something like the Foleo very well might just bring, say, a Trēo into the realm of graspable to them. I guess it's no wonder that I don't see a use to me personally for products that aren't aimed at me. As an apartment dweller, I don't have much current use for a lawn-mower either, but that doesn't mean that mowers are inherently useless to everyone. :shrug:

It's cheap, well-sized and has "decent' battery life. It could be a hit.

It's not cheap ($500 - with a discount is not cheap).
It's not well-sized. It's far too large to be a PDA and too small to be a laptop.
It's battery life is unacceptable for a PDA and only slightly better than a full laptop.

I agree with paulkbiba: I don't see a market for this thing.

For the price, you can get a very small laptop, run Linux on it and get same thing - plus more functionality.

Really, do you think the mass market has been waiting for a device like the Foleo? No, I don't think so. The mass market follows general industry trends, and the trend is to minimize the amount of devices you have to carry around while keeping all core functionalities (e-mail, word processor, phone). Most smartphones today, like the Treo or the Blackberry or various Nokia phones, are capable of doing this.

If you want a keyboard, get a notebook. It is just as cumbersome to carry around as any other device that is considerably bigger than a smartphone.

From TheStreet's Priya Ganapati:

Foleo is simply too limited in its use: It doesn't have a hard drive, runs the Linux operating system and falls into an in-between space, being larger than a phone and smaller than a laptop. The device basically just adds to the gadget clutter that users want to free themselves from, say analysts.

"I think this is going to be a massive failure," says Todd Kort, principal analyst with research firm Gartner. "The device is simply too big, too heavy to be carried around, and I think there are going to be better phones and laptops that will fill the need in a more sophisticated way."

...

Foleo now seems like a sign of the company's desperation.

Link (http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalysis/techgames/10359696.html)

Until last year, I was a most fervent supporter of my Axim PDA. I used it for reading e-books, for watching movies, and for doing my contacts. Today, dust is settling on it. I haven't switched it on in months (battery is probably all dead by now); books I read on a dedicated device now, movies I watch on a 16:9 screen notebook (I bought an extra huge secondary battery for long trips), and contacts I manage through my smartphone. The point is, I minimize the amount of devices I need to take care of, and I find the combination smartphone+notebook+dedicated device most suitable for most roadwarriors.

Yes, I am an early adopter, but even my girlfriend's sister has a smartphone that's better than mine, and she can do more office work with it than I can do. She also has a Macbook. She is mainstream, and she follows industry trends. I don't think she'll buy the Foleo.

Hmmm... Small, Linux, nice screen.... Where have I heard this before? Yes! I remember now. I have a Zaurus SL-C760. So...

Palm Folio
10-inch screen and full-size keyboard
Instant-On.
email
Surf web
5 hours of battery life
Runs Linux
Wi-Fi

Zaurus SL-C760
Only 4" screen and tiny keyboard (but fits in my pocket).
Instant-On.
Do email
Surf web
5 hours of battery life (with the new, larger battery)
Runs Linux
Wi-Fi

The C760 was never sold in the U.S. because Sharp didn't think it would sell.
The Zaurus was killed off last year by Sharp because of poor sales.

From my experience with my C760, I found that it completely failed as a PDA and failed as a laptop. I still keep it around for when I don't feel like getting up from my Lay-Z-Boy chair to ssh into the DVR, but it certainly doesn't get daily use.

So why would Palm think that the Folio would sell when other clam-shell devices failed?

I think they may be aiming for the trend of the "lowest common denominator." The least saturated demographic for tech toys is the folks who are scared of technology. Providing a relatively straightforward, non-scary device, might just get some of them to try it. Consider, that's exactly what the Sony Reader has aimed to do: make a reading device that's both good enough to use, and simple and straightforward enough that non-techies will give it a try.

The approach seems to be working fairly well for the Reader, it may be too soon to really tell.

I'm not making any evaluation of how well the Foleo might fill that aim, only observing/suggesting that that particular goal might be what they are trying to achieve. :shrug:

I'm not making any evaluation of how well the Foleo might fill that aim, only observing/suggesting that that particular goal might be what they are trying to achieve. :shrug:That's very important to note that if they want to reach that mass market, they need to make it simple. The smartphone part is NOT simple right now, and I bet the Foleo is not trivial either. They might have to depend on corporate rollouts in the beginning.

I'm thinking that Palm must have some large companies planning to use it with field deployments to save cost. They already have to get smartphones, so why not do this instead of laptops or tablets. Cheaper to buy and administer, and they can write their own apps for it. If Palm has that corporate commitment, it woud sure explain their enthusiasm despite a less than obvious consumer market.

Based on everything else I've read, I think the right 3rd party app could make the Folio a very popular device. My vote for "most likely to push Folio over the top" would be: Built-in connectivity.

Yes, ditch the phone, you don't need it. No one likes the hassle of connecting a phone to their device as a modem, anyway. If cellphone companies, for instance, sold a plug-in cell modem for it, easily set up at the store just for you, it would be perfect for the casual users, the Grandmas, the vacationers, the kids in the back of the car.

I have seldom posted on this board, but read frequently. But reading this thread, I've just got to comment.

With a condition, I predict that by this time next year, a very good percentage of Mobileread members will have one of these, and be loving them. My prediction is predicated, however, upon Palm fixing the miserable battery life of this device--I mean, 5 hours? That's hardly any better than my Apple Powerbook got when new! My Newton still gets a couple weeks of use on an ancient battery! So, if this detail gets fixed, I suspect that a lot of us "techies" will be using the Foleo and loving it.

Why is that? I think that many of us are thinking inside the box at the present moment. We were expecting something either more revolutionary (whatever that means) or more "advanced." So, immediately, its utility is overlooked.

Here is my take on this device. I have a Palm Tungsten. It has the same screen size and resolution as a Treo--320x320 pixels. Sorry, but that is a _tiny_ window on the world. Every app I can, I've reduced the font size to miniscule, just to get a bigger "window" on my information. I have a full-size keyboard, but find myself seldom using it, simply because my "window" is too small. I've been wishing for something maybe like this for a long time.

Here's how I suggest we look at this device. Our mobile phone is our "main" computer, and the Foleo is merely a larger window to that device. When you are out and about, you have the tiny screen, and the appropriate interface for interacting with that information on the tiny screen--extremely portable and optimized for the tiny device, but when you can, you have the Foleo, with tools more appropriate to a desk environment. Your data still resides on that tiny device slung from your hip, or in your pocket or briefcase, but you access it via this larger window.

As it is now, yes, I could "sync" my Palm with my laptop, but the two are really less compatible than one would hope, and it's so much effort to use the Palm for things like spreadsheets, etc. that I just don't bother. This is, in large part, due to the fact that the Palm is the satellite and the computer the hub. The Foleo turns this upside down. The phone is the hub, and the "computer" the satellite! _That_ is what I've been looking for!

And I suspect that many more people will begin to see things this way.

All we need now, is a way to bring this (I hate the next word) paradigm to the desktop/laptop! Or maybe find a way to eliminate either or both. That's what I'm waiting for. :-)

-Jon

It's not cheap ($500 - with a discount is not cheap).
It's not well-sized. It's far too large to be a PDA and too small to be a laptop.
It's battery life is unacceptable for a PDA and only slightly better than a full laptop.

I agree with paulkbiba: I don't see a market for this thing.

For the price, you can get a very small laptop, run Linux on it and get same thing - plus more functionality.

and it's not especially light, either - 2.4lbs!

This is, in large part, due to the fact that the Palm is the satellite and the computer the hub. The Foleo turns this upside down. The phone is the hub, and the "computer" the satellite! _That_ is what I've been looking for!

Been there. Done that. Doesn't work.

The problem is that you constantly run into the limitations of the satellite computer. You constantly want it to do more and you run into the necessary limitations of the system. So after a period of frustration after running into those limitations, you get a laptop.

For a while, I had a Sharp Actius MM20. A very small, lightweight laptop. The only spinning media in it was a hard drive. It came with a docking station that let you mount the MM20's hard drive to your main computer. It took me all of 15 minutes to create a synchronization system with my main box.

So, I would put the laptop into the docking station, run the sync script, pull the laptop out and go. When I got back, I just ran the sync again and all the updates were on my main system. It worked great.

But it was small (which is what I wanted in a satellite system). It was battery friendly (I got about 6 hours with the extended battery). But I constantly ran into its limitations. As a "surf the web, do eMail" system is worked great. But it wasn't enough.

For $300 more, I bought a full featured laptop and I have gotten much more use out of it.

As a laptop replacement the Folio fails.

No, I think Jon's right. What he's describing is essentially what I was doing with my Psion/EPOC Mako, a larger-than-standard-screened PDA with a keyboard. Obviously, it wasn't a laptop, but I didn't always need a full laptop with me, and the Mako filled the gap between laptop (all the tools) and phone (basic utility) nicely. If I could've connected it wirelessly, I would've been doing e-mail on it, to go with all the other functions it accomplished for me (mostly writing and PIM).

And if it hadn't eventually broken down, I'd still be using it.

I have had a day to think about this. First I thought the same as most, that it was a poor excuse for a laptop, but now i am changing my views a bit.

You have to think of this device as an accessory not a fully functioning device, think of it as a thin client for your phone or perhaps the coolest keyboard you will get for your smart phone, then it makes a little more sense.

I must admit that the price of the device is completely wrong for it's intended purpose $200 is more realistic. Also I think that they need to work on Symbian support if it is going to stand a chance in the european market and offer full support for the features in phones such as the N95.

I would personally never buy one, but I think I understand a little more about where Palm are coming from.

I think the key factor may be Google Apps and their equivalents. If you don't need local storage, this could be pretty cool. Use your phone for most things, but pull out a larger screen and keyboard when you want them -- and access the same content.

I like having a full-powered laptop, but I test web apps on mine, and do heavy graphics editing. I'm a geek -- I like tinkering with the plumbing. But many, many people who primarily deal with word processing, spreadsheets, email, and the occasional presentation could be very satisfied with the treo-foleo combo, if their apps and data were on the net.

The device is marketed mainly on its symbiosis with the Treo smartphone. This is the main point we first have to explore. Is it really that good and useful?

I did not dig for information yet but what computing power does it have? Does it use a mouse?

I don't need most of what actual notebooks offer, I'm no gamer so low horsepower is good.

I like the size of it so far. What features I'd like to see in such a device are:

Flash based computing ie. no more mechanical hard drives.(Too fragile for mobility)
Eink display with video colo(u)r. (I know it's too far off!)
No more MS dictatorship and exclusivity.(Unix is good here :) ) ( BTW Is one here at the mercy of a closed Palm dictatorship?)
Touch screen with full sensitivity.
And the ability to fold as a tablet.

:smack: Actually! What I'm describing is an Iliad with colo(u)r, the clamshell keyboarded shape of this device, with better reliability, and full media support.( video, JPEG, web and basic input) Now is that too much to ask?

It might not be much as it is but this device is an other choice away from the classical mold of the PC world. Is Palm trying to be an other Mac type rebel?

From TreoCentral (http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/1224-1.htm) :

So who is the target market for the Foleo? In a word, executives. Hawkins said he has received a lot a positive responses from executives at the conference.

So the Folio isn't supposed to be a productivity tool. :wink:

Those of us who are actually do something aren't the target market. That explains why I find it so hard to figure out what the Folio can do for me.

:laugh4:

Nail, hit, head!

Executives only want to be able to keep contact with their executive friends, their favorite websites, and their drones. (What kind of executives would they be otherwise?) This thing is perfect for them!

From TreoCentral (http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/1224-1.htm) :


So the Folio isn't supposed to be a productivity tool. :wink:

Those of us who are actually do something aren't the target market. That explains why I find it so hard to figure out what the Folio can do for me.
:laugh4: So! Your appreciation of executives is as high as ours? :laugh4:

Hum...

It a good START idea but needs more work so to speak... Smartphones, PDA micro laptops are dancing around what is really needed but cant come to use until rollable or folding screens come to pass. Until then its will be close but no cigar.

Smartphone: Convent but terrible input and screens...
PDA: Bigger screen but still hard to read and poor input...
Laptop: Decent screen and input but way to big. And breakable.
UMPC: A joke worst of all worlds....
Readers: Actually have decent battery life but slow screens and zero input.
iPhone: Screen and battery life..

Would be nice if it could stand alone... Instant on and if you could run Gotomypc or VPN pipe or something like that would be great.

I have some clients that need to be mobile and if they could connect back to the office with a very easy to see and decent input would buy it in a heart beat. Just to access data that is constantly changing.

Basically looks like an expensive large screen with a wireless keyboard...

ADDED: Wonder if it could be hack to make it self supporting. Net with its wireless or add on... At least it running LINUX and not Windows Moble!

I just read a similar article in (I think) the SF Chronicle. I'm with Alex on this one. Convergent devices are a great idea in theory, but rarely do they meet all our needs in execution.

Similarly, I have a T3 that I haven't switched on in a year (I don't even know if it still works really). I use my Razr for phoning and txting, and my MacBook Pro for everything else. I still haven't gotten a new Blackberry, but my email usage is low due to my laptop use.

There simply isn't a consumer need for a Palm-top type device like this. Palm isn't going to break any market booms with this thing. Either you need a laptop, or you don't. Most people who don't, get along fine with a Blackberry or simply a cell phone.

The "Think Grandma" argument rubs me the wrong way. That's only one step away from the "if only one percent of one percent of all Chinese people buy your product" argument, and both are often used to defend still-born products.

I like the "uneducated CEO" argument better, but here's a scenario: your CEO brings his toy Foleo to a conference where all his buddy CEOs are, and they whip out their 3000 USD ultra mobiles...

So what's left is the group of people who would like to do some work on the smart phones ... all four of them.

I think I get what Palm are trying to do, what with smart phones getting smarter. The thing is that for now this combination will have to compete with real computers, and the combo is going to lose. The very first time Foleo+smart phone owners are unable to do something they know they can do on their laptops, they're going to decide to leave the Foleos home next time and bring the laptops instead.

Also, the first flash-RAM, optical drive-less laptops will come out this year (Dell already lets you buy an ultra mobile with flash mem instead of an HD), and I wouldn't be surprised if you would be able to get real laptops for a Foleo price in a year that are just as light, and just as energy friendly.

(For those saying that a Linux-based laptop IS a real computer: think grandma.)

Its the corporate etch a sketch straight from Dilbert.

I'm sure Deloitte http://www.deloitte.com already has a couple pallets on order to hand out as new corporate status symbols. The fact that they are un-notebooks will just emphasize how those that get them are appreciated for their ability to make executive decisions, not for their ability to do research or assemble presentations. People with these devices direct others to dig and assemble.

It will be for a Trump aide as a Crystal encrusted Sidekick was for Paris.

Flash memory drives will be expensive for a while... But its the wave of the future. Just caught a 256GB one at a tech site...

This is basically either or both a bandage and or rearranging the deck chairs on a sinking ship. It add nothing that is not already available and is more expensive.

Before some one says the Sony Reader and the other eink readers are like this. They are not. They have the tech for its market that were needed... Readable screen in medium to direct sun light and up to a month standby or at least 5000 pages. Other units in the past were adaptation of what was then poor or small LCD screen and limited battery life... AKA the reader fits the next generation. Not perfection but close enough to be usfull.

I do not recommend under 500 dollar laptops. Basically low power in more ways then one... Usually bulky heavy and prone to breakage.

I just wish the Foleo could be a refreshed version of the Psion Series 7 - same form factor (loved the leather casing), with the Palm Linux, WiFi, Bluetooth, more memory. The Series 7 also had an excellent messaging client that I have never seen anywhere else -- an integrated application for contacts, email, SMS and Fax.

The Foleo would do fine if they had just positioned it as a mobile phone companion. A no-frills phone with just Bluetooth & 3G would be a great partner for the Foleo. A Treo, or an iPhone? I would just skip the laptop part altogether.

The negativity to this device amazes me as much as the "OMG It's So New!" hue and cry coming from other directions.

This isn't really much more than a new variation of the old Windows CE handheld PC devices. But speaking as an executive who actually "does something", this device is a godsend. I'm always looking for a small lightweight device I can take to meetings for note taking. Tablet PCs and notebooks are larger, heavier, have shorter battery life, and...the instant on feature is a killer app for me. With laptops I either have to change the battery settings to it doesn't go to sleep in the middle of a meeting, or keep smacking the keyboard to wake it up. If I need to make a note of something somebody said, I can't hold up the meeting for 5 minutes waiting for Windows Vista to restart.

It is a niche product to be sure, and the price needs to come down (I've heard the same criticism about iPods and mobile phones too). But I easily see myself using this as an accessory to my desktop if it actually works as promised.

BTW, it is "Foleo", not "Folio". I have no problem with criticism of the product, but we should at least get the name right :)

One bit of information I haven't been able to find about the Foleo is a comprehensive list of the applications with which it will ship. Everything I see is so focused on email and web surfing that they don't discuss the applications that would really help make the Foleo useful as a device on it's own merits.

If the Foleo were to ship with a set of the 'main' Palm OS PDA applications, I would buy one in a heartbeat. If the PDA apps were available as aftermarket software, I would also buy one.

Calendar, Phone Book, Notepad, World Clock, and a couple of other applications, with the basic look-and-feel of the Palm OS applications would be a great feature set for the Foleo.

I've owned perhaps a dozen Palm OS devices since the original Pilot was released in 1995. I currently have two Tungstens, and am likely to buy a Tungten T|X, just to have a spare in cse they wind up pulling the 'real' PDAs from the market.

What I've been missing for the past couple of years is a PDA with a larger screen. The stock 3"-4" screens are just getting to be too small for my aging eyes.

I like the instant-on, Linux-based, 10" screen-size features of the Foleo. If the 'Message' about the device weren't so focused and targeted as a Treo peripheral, and Palm allowed for the possibility that it could also function as a somewhat less portable, though vastly more readable 'obsessive-compulsive support system', I don't think there would be quite as much disdain for it here, and elsewhere.

Before moving into the electronic organizer world, I had a Day-Timer in which I kept my entire business life. I used the smaller-sized one, which suited the short information units I kept at the time. I know several people who still use the full-sized Day-Timers for more detailed note taking and information collection.

I could see the Tungsten or Treo as the 'pocket-sized' PDA and the Foleo as the 'full-sized' PDA.

If I could upgrade my Tungsten to a Foleo, I, for one, would be very happy. 5 hours of battery life, given the usage patterns of a PDA, isn't too bad. And I'm sure I would eventually grow to use the 'connectiviy' features, generating that revenue stream that Palm and it's partners would like me to provide for them.

One bit of information I haven't been able to find about the Foleo is a comprehensive list of the applications with which it will ship. Everything I see is so focused on email and web surfing that they don't discuss the applications that would really help make the Foleo useful as a device on it's own merits.

I did run across an article that said that the Foleo did not have the Palm PDA applications (calendar, contacts, To To, etc.).

It synchs contacts, but not the rest of the Palm Desktop. Hopefully, that will be rectified before the product launches. If a proper Palm Desktop isn't available, then maybe Dataviz will release a Foleo version of Beyond Contacts, which is basically Outlook for the Palm.

Well, since it's supposed to connect to the smartphone, and presumably you have all of your PIM data on that... does it need to be in the Foleo? Maybe your e-mail address book, but not the rest...

Well, since it's supposed to connect to the smartphone, and presumably you have all of your PIM data on that... does it need to be in the Foleo? Maybe your e-mail address book, but not the rest...

One of the key factors in the success of the original Palm Pilot was the Palm Desktop. The idea of having full synchronization between the portable unit and a unit with a large display and good input meant that you could run your contacts, your calendar and review notes from both your office and on the road. It was a brilliant concept, and one that hadn't been done well, if at all, before.

This really holds true for the Foleo as well. Even if you were to concede that it is a peripheral to your cell phone, what you (well, what I) really want is the ability to do anything related to PDA information management on either the smartphone or the Foleo, and then be able to sync it back up with the other side seamlessly whenever the two are in close proximity. Do you want to key in ten contacts on your Treo after a large meeting when the Foleo has a real keyboard? Do you want to use those contacts to re-schedule an entire week of activities that are affected by a critical business trip on the Treo, when The Foleo has a significantly larger screen, and that real keyboard? Wouldn't you like an instant-on note taking tool (with a real keyboard)?

I'd also like that extra step to be able to sync the Foleo to a true desktop machine (keeping something other than Outlook as an optional sync source, as I don't use Windows, perhaps the Palm Desktop package).

That way, in the office or on the road, the same data would be available no matter how I wanted to access it. I still use my Palm organizer that way, and would definitely use a Foleo just the same way.

Well, since it's supposed to connect to the smartphone, and presumably you have all of your PIM data on that... does it need to be in the Foleo? Maybe your e-mail address book, but not the rest...I'd really want a full PIM suite on the Foleo, for the same reason that Outlook integrates a PIM with an email client. If you get an email with some kind of actionable content -- a request for information, a document requiring feedback, an appointment -- you often need to make task and calendar entries, at least in the corporate environments for which the Foleo is the target demographic. Roughly two-thirds of my work arrives via email, and the Palm Desktop is an integral part of my workflow. I could input and review task and calendar entries on the Treo, but I'd much rather do it on a full size screen and keyboard.

Some people have argued that the Foleo should mirror whatever is on the Treo. I only argue the the Foleo should at a minimum support the desktop conduits Palm's provided for over a decade -- without require third-party solutions.

Okay, good point. When my PDA is sync'd, I update it by using Outlook on my PC... so I see what you mean.

FYI, I attended the Foleo Sneak Preview this week at the Palm Retail Store in Los Angeles. I've posted my impression and photos on this TreoCentral forum thread (http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=146023).

FYI, I attended the Foleo Sneak Preview this week at the Palm Retail Store in Los Angeles. I've posted my impression and photos on this TreoCentral forum thread (http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=146023).Very nice early information Gameboy. Thanks.

Btw, there is a calendar (plus contacts and tasks) 3rd party application called mDayscape for Foleo from MotionApps...
http://www.motionapps.com/mdayscape/_palmfoleo.jsp
and it's reported to be available with the first day of the Foleo release.
(no surprise if people at Palm have really been carrying Foleos around for two years already!)

That was one of the apps I tried, which was installed on one of the three Foleos. One Foleo had third party apps, the other two were al la carte. I'm not happy that mDayscape doesn't synch the memo conduit, but it least there will be some PIM available for the Foleo at launch. I've griped about that enough on the TC thread.

(no surprise if people at Palm have really been carrying Foleos around for two years already!)I wasn't surprised that people at Palm had be carrying around Foleos for two years. I was surprised that they had actually been using the thing for two years without seeing something as fundamental as PIM synchronization as a colossal omission. People were only doing email and document editing on it for two years? No one had the urge to see his or her calendar or task list on a larger screen? The Palm Desktop should have been a no-brainer.

My complaint wasn't that a PIM wouldn't be available. It was that it's not integral to the Foleo in ROM. Imagine buying a Treo, then having to buy the organizer functions.

Good point. I picture the Foleo as approaching a Franklin Planner plus browser plus integration with smart phone. I think they probably found that executives were more likely to be interested in an email device than a "large PDA", so they seem to be steering away from that sort of comparison.

Personally, I see programs already to control your smart phone from a desktop computer. If smart phone applications (PalmOS or WinMobile) started to support larger screen sizes, then already the Foleo would be an amazing device. Especially as smart phones move past ARM processors to x86 architectures as early as next year. That's a direction I could get really excited about, with such a great form factor for the Foleo. No syncing, just use the smart phone apps either directly or through the Foleo. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the direction of Palm, partly because they can't control WinMobile, I suppose, and because it would be too easy to copy.

Good point. I picture the Foleo as approaching a Franklin Planner plus browser plus integration with smart phone. I think they probably found that executives were more likely to be interested in an email device than a "large PDA", so they seem to be steering away from that sort of comparison.

Personally, I see programs already to control your smart phone from a desktop computer. If smart phone applications (PalmOS or WinMobile) started to support larger screen sizes, then already the Foleo would be an amazing device. Especially as smart phones move past ARM processors to x86 architectures as early as next year. That's a direction I could get really excited about, with such a great form factor for the Foleo. No syncing, just use the smart phone apps either directly or through the Foleo. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the direction of Palm, partly because they can't control WinMobile, I suppose, and because it would be too easy to copy.
Since the phone is the physical link to the net it would be logical to see a very good integration between the two devices. It is clever of you to expect using the phone's apps from the Foleo but will they do it? That alone would be a good justification to acquire this combo.

I picture the Foleo as approaching a Franklin Planner plus browser plus integration with smart phone. I think they probably found that executives were more likely to be interested in an email device than a "large PDA", so they seem to be steering away from that sort of comparison.Clearly they were preoccupied with email, but even following that line of emphasis, Palm should have included a PIM. Emails often involve actions or projects that need to be entered on a calendar or task list, which is why Microsoft designed Outlook to integrate those functions. You can even drag email headers into the Tasks pane and make them tasks.

Blackberry users find their email volume increasing in proportion to their faster respose time. The problem is that thumb typing typically limits users to short replies. Hence the typical email from a Blackberry user being "I'll get back to you on that." So even though Blackberrys are ostensibly for email, they're really used like two-way pagers. The screen and the keyboard are bottlenecks to high-focus work. Obviously, there are power users who can make any interface work, but on average, when you need to sit down and do serious work, you need a tool better suited for heavy lifting than a Blackberry or Treo. So the Foleo is a much more appropriate device, and I understand that aspect of the focus on email.

I just disagree with some of the design priorities. But if mDayscape eventually supports Memos, or another Palm Desktop equivalent emerges from around the corner, I'll stop whining.