I'm already reading book 8 of the series, but decided to play with BookDesigner and see if I could make a nicer version of my initial hack and slash rtf conversion.

Here's the result of playing around for a little while and getting the settings right where I wanted them. I'm considering finding larger (and better) copies of the artwork for the front page, but overall I like the way these came out.

Gimme some feedback on them. I'm going to convert the rest of the Harrington Series, but dunno when I'm gonna be able to get to it. :)


**newer version. I added a little extra artwork to both.

The Honor Harrington books are copyrighted. You need to ask Baen first if you are allowed to convert and publish the result.

True. "Free Library" and "We'll sue you for distributing for what we already give away for free" tend to mean the same thing these days.

Seems kind of stupid, but that's the nature of copyright laws these days.

Just in case I'll remove the files though.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Baen has the copyright so they decide how it is published. This is what "copy right" means after all. That they choose to hand out the ebooks free of charge does not diminish their rights.
I did not mention legal action from Baen at all. I only showed you the proper way of handling it. Ask Baen. I see good chances that Baen adds the format to their set of formats as long as it does not need any DRM. Yet it is their decision not yours.

In addition, I'm waiting on permission back from Baen. :)

I'll contact Baen too, could be pretty cool to have them on Feedbooks, this way their content will be available for both Sony/iLiad users.

Nicely handled guys! We definitely want to respect copyrights here, but if permission is granted, these would be really nice documents to have in Reader format.

Given the choice of a Baen RTF which is re-sizable and currently has much sharper text on the Sony Reader than a PDF which is both non-re-sizable and suffers from moth eaten glyphs on the Sony, why would I want to download a PDF'd Bean free book from Feedbooks than a RTF from Baen?

Even in the future an LRF file will provide more readability features than a PDF on the Sony. I would submit that Feedbooks really needs to upgrade their technology support for the Sony to embrace the LRF format if they want to say they truly support the Sony Reader.

Some of the Baen books (can't recall offhand which ones) have maps & other glyphs buried after the cover page. Manybooks normally doesn't include these - at least they don't when they convert .html works from Gutenberg. I don't know about feedbooks. When I have done my own conversions (for my own use) of Baen .rft to .pdf, I usually resize the glyphs to be a full page before the conversion.

Well done for handling this the right way! As has been said, the fact that the HH books can be freely given away does not alter the fact that they are in copyright, and creating a "derivative work" (eg a conversion to LRF format) does require the permission of the copyright holder.

Some people love margins Scotty. :)

Given the choice of a Baen RTF which is re-sizable and currently has much sharper text on the Sony Reader than a PDF which is both non-re-sizable and suffers from moth eaten glyphs on the Sony, why would I want to download a PDF'd Bean free book from Feedbooks than a RTF from Baen?

Even in the future an LRF file will provide more readability features than a PDF on the Sony. I would submit that Feedbooks really needs to upgrade their technology support for the Sony to embrace the LRF format if they want to say they truly support the Sony Reader.

There's a few reasons to prefer PDF over RTF:
- embedded fonts (multilanguage support)
- links (TOC)
- images
- real footnotes, nice chapter headings and footers
- better flowing of the text (less ugly blank spaces, hyphenation)
- margins in RTF/LRF are usually too big, looks ugly

Currently there's 2 bad points with PDF files when they're generated for the right device:
- you can't change the size of the font on the reader itself (but you can generate a book with the right font size)
- the Sony Reader doesn't hande PDF as well as the iLiad, a font like Adobe Times that is easy on the eyes on the iLiad, isn't on the PRS-500. But some fonts are OK on the Sony Reader too.

As for LRF support: right now the main focus on Feedbooks is still the beta, with many features that are being added, bugs fixed etc... You sound as if Feedbooks had been around for years without any new features. That's not the case, the website itself is still in beta with many features in development mostly for the News section, and new stuff added every week.

We won't be working on any new format during the beta, but as soon as the features are ready, and bugs fixed, we'll start studying which format would be the most interesting to add. Right now PDF is the best format we could start the beta with: it's supported by most of the big names in the e-ink bizness, there's a lot of powerful tools to generate PDF files out there (pdflatex is one of those), and even though you can't really reflow PDF files yet, it provides much more advanced formatting than any other format. In the future, I see two other XML based formats that looks promising: mostly Mobipocket, and LRF if Sony releases the PRS-500 or a similar device for a much larger market. The goal for Feedbooks is not to provide a bunch of e-text available in dozens of formats: that's what manybooks provides. But manybooks lack real formatting, and I wouldn't read any e-book without some sort of formatting myself. What Feedbooks provide for public domain books is a real formatting, and the ability to customize this formatting on the fly. Converting from one format to another without any formatting is easy, you just pass the whole text through some basic tool and you get your text in another format. More complex formatting takes some time, and we intend to provide good formatting for all the supported formats in the future (oh and we already tested audio books too with text-to-speech).

No PDF from Baen! They hate it as much as i do. PDF is not an ebook format.
If Baen will support LRF is probably simply a question of how many ebooks in that format can they sell. If not enough i doubt that they will support the format. Not even for the Free Library. It exists for a purpose and that is selling e/books.

If the direct conversion is denied then ask if you can hand out readymade conversion projects where the enduser has to get the ebook from other sources. That should be legal enough without permission, but with permission is better.
Be warned IANAL!

- margins in RTF/LRF are usually too big, looks uglyNot to argue, just a point of clarification -- the margins are adjustable, I don't think it recognizes margin settings at all in RTFs (so it doesn't show any -- doesn't on my RTFs at least http://www.mobileread.com/forums/images/smiliesadd1/shrug.gif) and 5 mm margin in the LRFs I make with BookDesigner. :nice:

BTW, I've been putting my Baen books into LRF (from the RTF option) with BD. Once you get the settings the way you want them BD is so easy to use, it's not even funny. I'm under the impression that they provide the RTF option expressly so that users can convert to their preferred format, if it's not one of their "standard" ones, so I don't think they'd object to our converting the books to LRF. I do think they'd prefer we didn't distribute them ourselves, although they've shown a remarkable restraint in that regard for folks who are distributing their CDs in whole (http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/). :shrug:

Not to argue, just a point of clarification -- the margins are adjustable, I don't think it recognizes margin settings at all in RTFs (so it doesn't show any -- doesn't on my RTFs at least http://www.mobileread.com/forums/images/smiliesadd1/shrug.gif) and 5 mm margin in the LRFs I make with BookDesigner. :nice:

BTW, I've been putting my Baen books into LRF (from the RTF option) with BD. Once you get the settings the way you want them BD is so easy to use, it's not even funny. I'm under the impression that they provide the RTF option expressly so that users can convert to their preferred format, if it's not one of their "standard" ones, so I don't think they'd object to our converting the books to LRF. I do think they'd prefer we didn't distribute them ourselves, although they've shown a remarkable restraint in that regard for folks who are distributing their CDs in whole (http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/). :shrug:

Yes, same problem with images and hyperlinks. Some of the features of RTF are not supported on the reader, with these features on, RTF would be a much better format for the PRS-500.

BD is a really cool software, but the main problem is that some users won't go through the process of creating e-books themselves, and I can really understand why. In order for e-books to be successful, we need to provide some kind of automatic formatting for e-books.

BTW, I've been putting my Baen books into LRF (from the RTF option) with BD. Once you get the settings the way you want them BD is so easy to use, it's not even funny.


Do tell! What settings are you using?

Cheers,
Bob

Heh, I'll do a screen shot of them for you when I get home to the computer they're on. :grin:

Okay, here are the settings I'm using. I use French for the language because it supports accents but otherwise has the same alphabet as English (it's the one I'm most familiar with http://www.mobileread.com/forums/images/smiliesadd1/shrug.gif).

I also insert the cover art so that it becomes my title page, just like a "real" book. I s'pose I could track down the back cover blurb as well and complete the effect. :mad:

@NatCh

I don't buy John Ringo ebooks from Baen for the cover art, but I will admit I do generally use Emacs to search and replace \fs24 with \fs36 before putting the RTF on my Reader. But if Sony took my pointer about how to decode the Baen cover images I wouldn't kick the cover art out of bed... :)

Nice screen shots though, but I will not be lead into distraction. Back to work, more Java source, less MR!

@\fs24 ... \fs36Would anyone care to enlighten me as to what those are? They swished right over my head, I'm afraid, and Google has failed me. :sad:

BTW, I've been putting my Baen books into LRF (from the RTF option) with BD. Once you get the settings the way you want them BD is so easy to use, it's not even funny. I'm under the impression that they provide the RTF option expressly so that users can convert to their preferred format, if it's not one of their "standard" ones, so I don't think they'd object to our converting the books to LRF. I do think they'd prefer we didn't distribute them ourselves, although they've shown a remarkable restraint in that regard for folks who are distributing their CDs in whole (http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/). :shrug:
Please start to think. The CDs are free to copy. Republishing is an entirely different thing.
BTW he has permission from Baen.

Would anyone care to enlighten me as to what those are? They swished right over my head, I'm afraid, and Google has failed me. :sad:
Font size.

Okay, here are the settings I'm using. I use French for the language because it supports accents but otherwise has the same alphabet as English (it's the one I'm most familiar with [IMG]

My settings are pretty much the same as yours. The one additional option I'd suggest setting is the "User page breaks" check box. This lets you add your own manual page breaks in BD and is very handy for, for example, adding a custom TOC or introductory page at the start of the book.

The other thing I do differently is to have both "skip cover page" and "skip front page" selected, because I prefer to do my own "custom" cover and front pages for the book. (I'm not actually sure what the difference is between a "cover page" and a "front page". Do you know?)

My settings are pretty much the same as yours. The one additional option I'd suggest setting is the "User page breaks" check box. This lets you add your own manual page breaks in BD and is very handy for, for example, adding a custom TOC or introductory page at the start of the book.

The other thing I do differently is to have both "skip cover page" and "skip front page" selected, because I prefer to do my own "custom" cover and front pages for the book. (I'm not actually sure what the difference is between a "cover page" and a "front page". Do you know?)

I do the same thing. I prefer that a chapter starts on a "fresh page" rather than in the middle of it. I tend to use slightly smaller fonts than those listed in the screenshots too.

Font size.Thanks, igorsk!


Please start to think. The CDs are free to copy. Republishing is an entirely different thing.
BTW he has permission from Baen.The CDs themselves are carry a note that it's okay to recopy them, as long as you do the whole CD.

In any case when I said, "... I do think they'd prefer we didn't distribute them ourselves ...," I was saying that I don't think we should distribute our LRF copies -- they wouldn't like it, and it's not right besides.

The other thing I was saying is that it's rather a different matter to convert it to an LRF myself, for my own use, and not give copies to anyone else. As I said, I think that scenario is part of why they give us the RTF option. :nice:

I've spoken out against possible, and actual copyright infringement many times on MR, and don't mean to give the impression that I've backed away from that stance. :no:

I think you and I are actually in agreement on this point, Robert: we should not redistribute any contents of any Baen CD or any offering from Baen's free library, either in a converted or original format, without Baen's specific permission.

Does that about sum it up? :smile:

I do the same thing. I prefer that a chapter starts on a "fresh page" rather than in the middle of it. I tend to use slightly smaller fonts than those listed in the screenshots too.

If you give your chapter headings the "Title" style, they will automatically start a new page. I only use manual pagebreaks in situations where I want a pagebreak at a point that isn't a "Title".

Nat likes ENORMOUS text in his e-books, so he uses large font sizes :grin:.

I think you and I are actually in agreement on this point, Robert: we should not redistribute any contents of any Baen CD or any offering from Baen's free library, either in a converted or original format, without Baen's specific permission.

Does that about sum it up? :smile:

I certainly agree with this 110% :grin:.

Nat likes ENORMOUS text in his e-books, so he uses large font sizes :grin:.Yes, yes I do. :laugh4:

Harry, great job on all the posts. I was thinking about the font size choices that people like and was wondering if someone would be able to put together a program that would allow people to change them (unfortunately I don't have the skills to do it myself)

I was thinking of something that would use convert the lrf to lrs using lrs2lrs, parse the lrs looking for the book designer font size setting, give the user the choice of increase or decrease the font by increments, then convert the lrs back to lrf using lrs2lrf. From playing around with lrs files I think theres just one line for each fontstyle used in the book so it shouldn't be too hard to parse it.

This way people could reformat the books to their personal preference.

Once again thanks for all the content being posted - it's much appreciated.

Yes, yes I do. :laugh4:
Actually I find 16 point a little small. Perhaps my eyes are older. :rolleyes5

It's funny, but to my eye, BookDesigner's 12 point setting works out to slightly larger than 18 point in an RTF (which is where I usually aim for RTFs) -- go figure :shrug:

I think you and I are actually in agreement on this point, Robert: we should not redistribute any contents of any Baen CD or any offering from Baen's free library, either in a converted or original format, without Baen's specific permission.

Does that about sum it up? :smile:
Definitely. :-)
I do misread postings sometimes.

We should seek permission from Baen also (i know Baen has been asked already).
It should be asked in Baens Bar in the "Tonis Table" forum. It is read by Toni Weisskopf (now boss of Baen). The main reason to post there is to allow the barflies to comment on this also.

It's funny, but to my eye, BookDesigner's 12 point setting works out to slightly larger than 18 point in an RTF (which is where I usually aim for RTFs) -- go figure :shrug:

No, I agree with you.

In the "old days", I used to use a 16pt font for "normal" text in an RTF file for the Reader. The "12pt" font setting in BD definitely produces text that's larger than that. That's why I've now "standardised" on "10pt" in BD for my books, which I reckon is the equivalent of about 14pt in RTF.

I wonder if it's because the Reader "scales down" font sizes in RTF from A4 to its screen size, whereas the fonts in an LRF are a "real" size?

Sony recommends in its Making PDF for Sony Reader guide that the base font should be set at 7 points. I wonder if it would make the Small/Medium/Large view on the Reader more usable - most people are starting with a larger base font so that the Largest view setting is hardly ever used...

What would be the benefits of using such a small base font size?

Well, PDFs are different animals, for starters. But I expect it's mostly a difference of preference on the part of whoever put the PDF making guide together. They also may have been aiming to get the font size to match the size in their Connect Books. :wink:

7 points seems really small.

Okay, here are the settings I'm using. ...

Thank you!

Cheers,
Bob

This thread was moved so the title won't show up in the E-Books database.

Good idea, JSWolf. :yes: