As SimpleDave requested, here is a poll about charging the Reader from the charger. This does not apply to using the USB port.

The goal is to see if the problem is widespread or only something that happens on the Euro 230 v lines.

230V and YES

Hey! You forgot 'USB and irrelevant' in the poll. :laugh4:

Nope, he left it out deliberately -- they're trying to get a measure of how widespread the 'tingling' might be. :nice:

I haven't noticed anything using the dock, but I don't think I ever touch the Reader case when it's plugged in. (Always the cover.)

Oh... 110V or 120V or whatever it is. US plugs.

110V or 120V or whatever it is. US plugs.Technically, it's usually pretty close to 117V (if I recall correctly), but most folks don't seem to quibble over it, and I've known electricians to use 110 and 120 interchangeably, according to their preference. :shrug:

Of course, I'm likely the only one here who thinks it's worth commenting on at all (feeling especially anal today, I guess). :wink:

According to the display on the UPS here I'm running at 119, no 120, no 119, no 121, no 120 ....

The voltage is regulated for impedance loss depending how far you are from major relay stations. Some rural stations can see up to 123V.

Okay, I guess I'm not the only one ... unless you two are just trying to make me feel better. :grin:

Yes, but having measured it with a multimeter I'm absolutely convinced it's just a 50Hz vibration from the cheapie power supply.

If the shocks (and these tingles are very low-current shocks) are only happening in 230-volt areas, then it may let Sony off the hook and maybe not. While the charger is UL listed (not CE, which would definitely test at 550 volts for leakage, and is required to make it "legal" in Europe), it is marked as 120-240 volts operation, so should have been tested at at least 500V.

Just another case of saving a buck by making the charger as cheap as possible, outsourcing the design and manufacturing to China. That's OK (I've done that myself, and the savings are huge), but it's still good practice for the company that is using the adapter to test it for leakage themselves. International safety standards are for injusry or lethality, not for comfort, and "tingles" are not acceptable market-wise even if technically legal.

I put a response over in this thread (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10043) (post # 34 (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=61701&postcount=34)) -- didn't want to double up the conversation, don't you know. :nice:

230v and yes, and thanks for setting the poll up.

I just tried and no tingle here (230V, Switzerland).

I'm wondering if someone in the Euro area were to take a voltage converter and drop their voltage to the 110-120 v area and plug the charger into that, would they still feel the tingle on the Reader case?

is this like those that put the cell phone on vibrate and then put in their pocket and then call themselves a lot?

I'm wondering if someone in the Euro area were to take a voltage converter and drop their voltage to the 110-120 v area and plug the charger into that, would they still feel the tingle on the Reader case?
That's a good suggestion. Leakage is one thing, but enough leakage you can feel it might take a higher voltage. I just measured between my reader case and ground, 22v. That's plugged into 120V 60Hz. On the scope it's a pretty clean sine wave. There is some current limiter, only about 1.1 ma. of flow. I actually think the limit is 3.5 ma., or maybe that's just where GFCIs trip.

(Of course I'm not encouraging you to do anything dangerous... :deal: )

Touching the sony reader always makes me tingle.

That's why I bought it. Does that count?

Legal limit is 1.0 mA, under single-fault conditions (that is, plugged in backwards and any single part in the charger shorted or damaged). 3.5 mA is considered severe shock. Also, these should be measured at 500V, since the power supply is rated to 240V.

too many choices.

I just mistakenly voted <120 and yes>
I have not experienced this at all.

No tingle ...

Europe, 230 V.

Sony AC-S5220E adaptor.

I read somewhere you can use the psp charger, is this correct?

Yes, Reader's charger is exactly the same.

We have an iGo car adapter for our cell phones. The other day, I just bought an A54 tip for the PSP to go with the Sony Reader while in the car. Much easier then buying another entire car cord. Go Radio Shack!

Go Radio Shack!Hoowa!

Here's an explaination from the Dell Blog...
http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2007/04/24/8522.aspx

Apparently, it's not specific to a particular device. It can happen with any device with a two-prong plug, and is not dangerous. They have much more detail on that page.

I live in both Finland and the USA, and have used my Reader in both countries.
I get the shock in Finland but not in the USA.

I think that solves this debate :P

Yeah happens to me I live in japan and get 100v from the socket. I noticed it the day I got my reader because I knew I shouldn't use it till it was full charged but could help holding and admiring it HA HA. I thought it was strange but didn't think too much about it until I saw this post and see that it happens to other people too! Strange stuff!!!

If you hold your reader in your hand and relax, it doesn't matter whether it is plugged in or not. You will eventually feel a tingle as you allow your awareness of your contact with the Reader to build. But of course you can do this with a rock too, or with an empty hand. If your awareness is sufficient, you will feel an intensity of sensation which is often a tingle. Sometimes it is a lightness, or a thickening, or a warmth, but it is usually a tingling in the rhythm of your heartbeat. Once you become proficient, you can feel this in both hands at the same time. Then by deepening your awareness you can grow to feel it in your face as well. Once you have accomplished this, hands and face, you have involved a majority of your sensory cortex and you are damping other processes in your brain such as cognition. This will become a familiar sensation to you and you will be able to "find" it merely by taking a breath. It can become a comfort in times of tension and anxiety. Sometimes, if you feel too stressed even to read, it will calm you sufficiently that you can concentrate. This sensation can become a useful background for you during a stressful meeting or even in a time of danger.

Wow, it sounds like the Reader can be some kind of relaxation/alpha wave tool! :)
I can't say I've ever felt anything myself, though. Maybe I'm just never relaxed enough?

But of course you can do this with a rock too, or with an empty hand.Well, I think I'll stick with the Reader or a rock ... I mean, where would I get an empty hand? (anyone thinking of Hope Hubris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bio_of_a_Space_Tyrant), yeah, the allusion is semi-deliberate).

Seriously, though, this is part of a meditation technique then, mogui?

The problem *I* have is that Mom gets such a tingle just turning it on and reading that I can't pry it out of her hands!!! So I don't get to play with it - haven't even managed to install any of the hacks! :D

Derek

Well, I think I'll stick with the Reader or a rock ... I mean, where would I get an empty hand? (anyone thinking of Hope Hubris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bio_of_a_Space_Tyrant), yeah, the allusion is semi-deliberate).

Seriously, though, this is part of a meditation technique then, mogui?

If you install a bricking hack, that'll get it away from her. :laugh4:

Well, I think I'll stick with the Reader or a rock ... I mean, where would I get an empty hand? (anyone thinking of Hope Hubris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bio_of_a_Space_Tyrant), yeah, the allusion is semi-deliberate).

Seriously, though, this is part of a meditation technique then, mogui?
I will read the Piers Anthony stories soon NatCh and see if I understand your allusion.

Meditation is an attempt to still the mind. That is problematic in several respects. One, what is a mind? If we are dealing with an imaginary construct, how do we exorcise the little thought-goblins from it. Two, people try for years to "meditate" with little success. Three, it is time-consuming. It is much simpler to seek what is already present and raise awareness of it. It is fast and repeatable and the effects are as consciousness-altering as "meditation" promises to be. It is a simple technic of the body, and it is easy to do. There is nothing mystical about it and you don't have to believe in anything or give anyone money.

Ah, I see the distinction, and realize I chose the wrong word, unfortunately, I'm not sure what the right word would be. :shrug:

Anyway, I'm intrigued by the technique you're describing and would like to know a bit more about it (I'm not saying I want to shave my head or anything, just that you've piqued my curiosity), is there a resource you could suggest for a bit of light research?

As for the Bio books ... I'm not sure I would actually recommend them. They're certainly not for everyone. They are fairly well written, and good stories, with interesting ideas, but some of the subject matter is a bit rough. :shrug:

Ah, I see the distinction, and realize I chose the wrong word, unfortunately, I'm not sure what the right word would be. :shrug:

Anyway, I'm intrigued by the technique you're describing and would like to know a bit more about it (I'm not saying I want to shave my head or anything, just that you've piqued my curiosity), is there a resource you could suggest for a bit of light research?
"Meditation" is a familiar word, so it is as good as anything for naming. At times I have referred to it as "Soma Meditation", because it involves tuning in to the body. I once stayed an an ashram for a while. One of the people there said he had been meditating twice a day for 17 years and nothing ever happened. At one time I taught psychology in a US university. I taught this method in my classes and my students were able to use it immediately. It is as simple as what I posted above. There is no more. Most people who feel a need for meditation are living in their heads and ruminating and rehearsing. Try not to think of a purple elephant. By returning to the body persistently, one incidentally stills the thoughts and begins to recover feeling in forgotten realms.
As for the Bio books ... I'm not sure I would actually recommend them. They're certainly not for everyone. They are fairly well written, and good stories, with interesting ideas, but some of the subject matter is a bit rough. :shrug:OK, I can try. I do not recall having read PA in the past. Rough subject matter is OK too.

Given that I've been *ENCOURAGING* her to read - now that she's retired - no, I don't think that would be proper. Oh well, my Cybook Gen3 eval unit will be arriving shortly. :smack:

Derek

If you install a bricking hack, that'll get it away from her. :laugh4:

that sounds like a good technique, i'll try it out.

being relaxed is the most important thing for anything from doing well on a test to picking up girls. runs the full gamut of life, really.


just wondering... what is "real" meditation? is that where you just stop thinking? yeah, that's very hard because now you're thinking about not thinking... you go nowhere. I guess maybe some people learn to just let go and succeed? Are there advantages of "pure" meditation compared to this distraction approach? I have to say, the ideal of sitting without thinking or seeing or anything is a bit defeating... just die already, or take a nap.

just wondering... what is "real" meditation? is that where you just stop thinking? yeah, that's very hard because now you're thinking about not thinking... you go nowhere. I guess maybe some people learn to just let go and succeed? Are there advantages of "pure" meditation compared to this distraction approach? I have to say, the ideal of sitting without thinking or seeing or anything is a bit defeating... just die already, or take a nap.
Once I had the job from hell. The only thing that got me through two years of it was my 30 minute meditation at lunchtime. A good operational definition of consciousness is how it feels to be you right now. I refer specifically to feeling and sensation as opposed to ideation and belief. Sometimes it is beneficial to alter the feeling quality of your consciousness. That changes how it feels to be you. The technic gives you control over the quality of your consciousness. So in practicing the technic you deliberately alter how you feel. There is profound pleasure to be found in this practice. It gives you power over your life because it can become a way to restore your sense of well-being when the rest of your life is unpleasant. Many people approach this state when they become totally involved in something like listening to music. This quality of involvement is called "flow" and it is essential to happiness. Flow occurs whenever you are creatively engaged such that you are aware of your physical process. Imagine skiing, dancing, making love, reading a really good book, or better yet, writing one.

Because this meditative practice involves simply focusing on the sensations of your body, it gently pulls you away from ideation that can be harmful to the quality of your consciousness, like rehearsal of anxious thoughts or ruminations over unfortunate past situations. Standard meditation asks you to still your thoughts, to stop thinking. That is difficult to do. This technic is different because it give you a place to go, a goal of sorts, within the somatosensory complex of your own body. It does not take long, once you have found the feelings and sensation within you that you value, to learn to return there as if you are walking down a familiar path. My personal "key" to this path is to take a deep breath and to simple "fall" into the desired state. Your first step is to tune into the sensations that are already present in your body and allow them to build in intensity. You will be pleasantly surprised.

As to what is "real". Good question alex_d. Perhaps one's own experience is the only reality to which we have access. Do you remember the lesson of the velveteen rabbit?
"Real isn't how you are made . . . It's a thing that happens to you. When a child loves you for a long, long time, not just to play with, but REALLY loves you, then you become real. It takes a long time. Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in the joints and very shabby. But these things don't matter at all, because once you are real you can't be ugly, except to people who don't understand." -- Margery Williams